Naomi SexyCyborg Wu's Patreon Shut Down by VICE

[TerraHertz]

Hmm... So White Rabbit is LR? That's cool.  (Edit: Nope, the White Rabbit guy just copied LR's video.)

Wow, that's... stereotypical of certain tribalists.

I really hope Naomi didn't sign anything from Vice TV. Her one weakness in my view, is that she doesn't yet understand how very dark the world is. She thinks it's just misguided idiots and jerks vs the honest creative people. Possibly she might have been suckered into signing something like that contract Rossman reviewed.

Perhaps this will blow back on Vice TV, gale force.

I wonder if there's any connection between Alphabet and Vice TV?

[Ampera]

I don't know, but VICE is one of the worst things I would call a publication on the internet. They aren't BuzzFeed bad, but they are incredibly SJW, and when not, just overly clickbaity. I have seen very few of what I would describe good, honest, or balanced articles coming out of them, so I am not eager to trust them over a creator that seems pretty cool to me. I haven't taken a side in my mind, as I can't be arsed, I have enough things I take sides on, but VICE doing stupid shit to people doesn't surprise me, and I would hedge my bet that they started and ended it any day.

[EEVblog]

Couldn't you get that in a written contract/NDA before agreeing to the interview?
Sure, if your dealing with a respectful journalist it might not be necessary, but VICE is known to expose what they can.

Why the heck would you need a contract for an interview?

[marshallh]

Rob Graham is on it:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/981261205103960064.html?refreshed=yes

[EEVblog]

Rob Graham is on it:
https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/981261205103960064.html?refreshed=yes

From that:

For example, she complains it's unethical of the journalists to not let her read the story before it was published. The opposite is true: it's considered unethical to let sources read the story before publication.

I agree. I flatly refuse to let any company see my reviews before publication for example, and I specifically have that in my rules on my website.

You agree to an interview and "take's ya chances"

[EEVblog]

The VICE interview is here, and it's long and I haven't read it all, but I don't see anything wrong with it so far
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-profile-shenzhen-maker-scene

[thm_w]

Why the heck would you need a contract for an interview?

They came into her home, which she apparently is very concerned with keeping private. So have an NDA signed which should prevent them having any "secret" information used in the article.
Most people wouldn't care, but whatever she wants to keep private is either important to her business (think about donation stream) or to herself.

The VICE interview is here, and it's long and I haven't read it all, but I don't see anything wrong with it so far
https://motherboard.vice.com/en_us/article/3kjqdb/naomi-wu-sexy-cyborg-profile-shenzhen-maker-scene

This part, redacted:

Wu told me she didn’t want to discuss her marital status, but before publishing the piece, I followed up with her. I hoped to discuss the Reddit conspiracy theory that claimed someone she’s in a relationship with was behind her work. Wu has spent significant energy proving these conspiracy theories false, and shutting down this harassment has inspired other women who have faced similar treatment online.

“Do you actually have time to hop on Skype to go over the Reddit conspiracy theory?” I wrote. “It would be really helpful [to] address these allegations. I saw that video where you say you're [name redacted’s] wife—and I'd like to discuss the unfairness of assuming a woman receives help, just because her partner works/worked in a similar industry. If you don't want to discuss this at all, I understand and won't push. I think the Reddit conspiracy theory is vicious, but since this profile is long and comprehensive, I'd love to highlight your opinions about prototype bias, gender expectations, and racism as they relate to the rumor. Let me know how that sounds, and what you're comfortable with.”

[EEVblog]

Why the heck would you need a contract for an interview?

They came into her home, which she apparently is very concerned with keeping private. So have an NDA signed which should prevent them having any "secret" information used in the article.
Most people wouldn't care, but whatever she wants to keep private is either important to her business (think about donation stream) or to herself.

Then don't invite them into your home maybe? Maybe go a hacker space or something and let them interview you.
She has 250k subscribers, she hardly needs the exposure.

[thm_w]

Then don't invite them into your home maybe? Maybe go a hacker space or something and let them interview you.
She has 250k subscribers, she hardly needs the exposure.

Excellent point, that might have made more sense.

[EEVblog]

Then don't invite them into your home maybe? Maybe go a hacker space or something and let them interview you.
She has 250k subscribers, she hardly needs the exposure.

Excellent point, that might have made more sense.

I think she's learnt some valuable lessons here.
a) Don't dox people, there will be repercussions.
and
b) Learn to control the narrative without resorting to legal means.

By that I mean she was in the box seat. Vice presumably came to her to do an interview, she could have said no to a home interview, suggested other better places to do the interview etc.

Don't want people in your home? Don't invite them.
Don't want a reporter to ask you about your relationships or sexual orientation, it's easier and less confrontational to simply decline to comment when asked rather than trying to lay down rules. It's not like this was a live TV interview where they can put you on the spot and hence some ground rules might be warranted.

Oh, and c) if you are going to complain, make sure you have the high ground to do so, otherwise it could backfire.

[EEVblog]

She has 250k subscribers, she hardly needs the exposure.

Depending on how greedy you are. Can you swear you've never had a single moment envying those iPhone smashers or anvil droppers getting millions of subs in no time?

I'm in a position to actually do those things and try and replicate that if I so desire, but I choose not to.

[EEVblog]

This is the only controversial part of the article as far as I can see:

And despite her scruples about Shenzhen’s makers—who is and who isn’t one—Wu is a champion for positive change in the technology industry, advocating for issues like diversity and accessibility to her thousands of followers.

But Wu’s form of activism can also be hostile and combative. She wields her impressive Twitter presence to confront people she disagrees with. I know this from personal experience, as Wu took issue with my reporting after I returned from China.

Wu told me she didn’t want to discuss her marital status, but before publishing the piece, I followed up with her. I hoped to discuss the Reddit conspiracy theory that claimed someone she’s in a relationship with was behind her work. Wu has spent significant energy proving these conspiracy theories false, and shutting down this harassment has inspired other women who have faced similar treatment online.

“Do you actually have time to hop on Skype to go over the Reddit conspiracy theory?” I wrote. “It would be really helpful [to] address these allegations. I saw that video where you say you're [name redacted’s] wife—and I'd like to discuss the unfairness of assuming a woman receives help, just because her partner works/worked in a similar industry. If you don't want to discuss this at all, I understand and won't push. I think the Reddit conspiracy theory is vicious, but since this profile is long and comprehensive, I'd love to highlight your opinions about prototype bias, gender expectations, and racism as they relate to the rumor. Let me know how that sounds, and what you're comfortable with.”

At the same time Wu responded to me, she started tweeting about VICE. Over the next several weeks, Wu publicly shopped our correspondence to journalists and tagged me, my former colleague, my editor, and VICE in dozens of tweets; her followers sent me many more.

In emails, Wu accused me of blackmailing her and writing a “hit piece.” Without having seen the story, she wrote that if I published the article under my byline, VICE “will throw you to the wolves.”

“If you don’t believe me, I’ll direct my tweets to your name- see if they come help under the VICE brand or make an excuse why they should stay out of it so they can blame you later for acting alone and cut you loose- with a reputation written where it can never be erased as the female journalist who signal-boosts harassment campaigns against women in tech,” she wrote.

Wu asked to see a draft of the story prior to publication, which we declined to do as it is against our editorial policy. She took issue with other standard editorial protocols, such as when a fact-checker reached out to other sources for this piece.

“We just need whatever article you vomit out to determine in just how many ways you violated basic journalistic ethics,” Wu wrote in an email to my editor.

Assuming that's all true, Naomi did not do herself any favors here unfortunately, it was the wrong approach.

[rsjsouza]

I followed her last brouhaha and was mildly interested in this one. In the light of the article snippet, I agree with Dave's points: don't overreact, control the narrative and keep your privacy at all costs if you don't want any of it to be at risk of being exposed. My opinion is the same as the one I had before: she will eventually grow up, become more serene and hopefully learn something from this - it doesn't seem she learned much from her past episode.

BTW, Louis Rossmann's video is awesome!

[sleemanj]

I didn't see anything in the article which was worthy of this sort of hellfire response from Wu.

In fact I spent a while the other day looking for some other article I assumed must have existed that she was angry about rather than this one.

Fair enough she doesn't want to have too much information out there that might identify her, the world is full of weirdos, but I didn't see anything in the article that would do that.

[nuclearcat]

Followed Naomi Wu for a while, it looks more show (exploiting her female attributes and overexposure of the body), than technology, but stopped following her activity, after several racist rants and dragging artificially "white men", "yellow women", etc. It reminds about my visits to China and translation from trusted people,who know chinese language, what "local common folk" talk about "this laowai". Thats give me reason to avoid stereotypes "being white is privilege", because somewhere it is more drawback, than privilege. Any mention of race IMHO racism, and my opinion - she is racist.
What happened might be predictable, but totally unfair, and significance of this particular example - it shows how vulnerable are bloggers and why often they can't cover "sensitive subjects", because all their income sources can be shut very easily even by such company as Vice. Each debunking Dave doing (and he is doing totally good thing for humanity, so we don't go wrong way) creating risk for him as well

[Ampera]

She's a white privilege screecher? Alright, I've definitely lost all care for what's gone on here. I really didn't keep up with her much, but I was aware she did show off her body a bit (which I don't care about, it's her body, she can do what she wants with it). I didn't know she was a racist.

Shoving agendas into something that's supposed to be fun and about tech usually is a sure-fire way to piss me off. I like debating opinions with rational, open-minded equals, but I also prefer to keep that shit to twitter, and the occasional bout on this forum.

My personal view right now is to trust neither party. I hate VICE, for reasons outside of what happened here, so I am not eager to trust them in any respect.

I know of many a great YouTuber who got their kneecaps bashed in for talking about an opinion to people who can't handle them. I believe that anybody who can't accept other people's opinions, and look past them can't call themselves an adult. VICE has posted some shit articles, but I would still work with, and possibly be friends with someone who believed their drivel. I form opinions on other people's opinions while accepting them at the same time.

Unfortunately so many people, even in my own back garden tend to not be like that. I am often faced with people and groups who love to spread their holier than thou one true opinion, but demonize, and even ostracize those who disagree. I'd go deeper into this, but due to the current political climate, I'm afraid of attracting the same people I talk about despising.

Anyways, I ramble on about this stupid stuff on occasion. 90 WPM means I tend to flood anything where I have to share an opinion until it becomes completely tl;dr.

what am I talking about again?

[NiHaoMike]

Artists using themselves as part of a work of art is nothing new. What is unusual is the combination of beautiful "model" and electronics. Qualcomm's Saura Naderi and her robot dress is another example. (By coincidence, both Saura's robot dress and part of the mining cluster that's helping Naomi run on Snapdragon 410s!)

I hope Naomi adopts Bitcoin as one option for funding and Bittorrent as one option for content distribution, both of which are very robust. My desktop PC is more than eager to help, but its dated Sandy Bridge E can't even manage unity mining earnhoney, the only CPU coin that readily converts to what she currently accepts. Curecoin/Foldingcoin only readily convert to Bitcoin. Finding cures for cancer and funding the production of a friend's TV show at the same time is a big win.

[ez24]

I think she got upset about her breast implants being mentioned in the article.  I would not given it two seconds of thought.  Too bad she did not feel the same way.

Other than that, I did not find it a bad article.  But the author stinks.

[NiHaoMike]

How do the Bitcoin mining datacenters in China actually use the Bitcoins they make?

[mikeselectricstuff]

The most popular Chinese channel on YouTube is called "laowhy86", by a South African.

Not quite - this is Matt (C-Milk)'s channel, who is from either US or Canada - SerpentZA is who you are thinking of ( who is actually English but grew up in SA. Both their channels have some very interesting vids on many aspects of China

[nuclearcat]

If you think being white is a privilege in an Asian dominant country, you are wrong in the first place.

Thats exactly my point. But Naomi, seems think different way.

As for the "laowai" thing, it's not always an insult, and it's almost always not an insult. This is just like "gaijin" in Japanese -- traditionally used as a xenophobic word, but in modern society, just a neutral word.
Foreigners living China for a long time or moved permanently to China usually refer to themselves as "laowai", and it's not offensive at all. It's just a racial joke.
As a Chinese living in America, I also do this kind of racial jokes on myself, such as when I come to a meeting late, I always say I came on colored people's time, or when I f*ed things up, I always say I chinked. I don't consider this insulting at all.
The most popular Chinese channel on YouTube is called "laowhy86", by a South African.

I know laowai is not insult by itself, but context where and how it was used in talks of people around me (in China), who thought i wont know translation - was not pleasant, extremely racist.

[NiHaoMike]

Perhaps a "pool service" might be the solution. For example, if viewer A sends $50 in Bitcoin to Naomi and viewer B sends $100 in Paypal to Dave, what actually happens is that Naomi gets $50 in Paypal and Dave gets $50 in Paypal and $50 in Bitcoin. Actually, it could be done P2P by makers who want to support other makers, with some transparency system in place to prevent cheating.

[firewalker]

I read the interview. There is a part mentioning something:


«Wu told me she didn’t want to discuss her marital status, but before publishing the piece, I followed up with her. I hoped to discuss the Reddit conspiracy theory that claimed someone she’s in a relationship with was behind her work. Wu has spent significant energy proving these conspiracy theories false, and shutting down this harassment has inspired other women who have faced similar treatment online.

“Do you actually have time to hop on Skype to go over the Reddit conspiracy theory?” I wrote. “It would be really helpful [to] address these allegations. I saw that video where you say you're [name redacted’s] wife—and I'd like to discuss the unfairness of assuming a woman receives help, just because her partner works/worked in a similar industry. If you don't want to discuss this at all, I understand and won't push. I think the Reddit conspiracy theory is vicious, but since this profile is long and comprehensive, I'd love to highlight your opinions about prototype bias, gender expectations, and racism as they relate to the rumor. Let me know how that sounds, and what you're comfortable with.”

At the same time Wu responded to me, she started tweeting about VICE. Over the next several weeks, Wu publicly shopped our correspondence to journalists and tagged me, my former colleague, my editor, and VICE in dozens of tweets; her followers sent me many more.

In emails, Wu accused me of blackmailing her and writing a “hit piece.” Without having seen the story, she wrote that if I published the article under my byline, VICE “will throw you to the wolves.”

“If you don’t believe me, I’ll direct my tweets to your name- see if they come help under the VICE brand or make an excuse why they should stay out of it so they can blame you later for acting alone and cut you loose- with a reputation written where it can never be erased as the female journalist who signal-boosts harassment campaigns against women in tech,” she wrote.

Wu asked to see a draft of the story prior to publication, which we declined to do as it is against our editorial policy. She took issue with other standard editorial protocols, such as when a fact-checker reached out to other sources for this piece.

“We just need whatever article you vomit out to determine in just how many ways you violated basic journalistic ethics,” Wu wrote in an email to my editor.»

[nuclearcat]

I know laowai is not insult by itself, but context where and how it was used in talks of people around me (in China), who thought i wont know translation - was not pleasant, extremely racist.

Sorry hear about that, and yes, xenophobic people in China do exist, in massive quantity.
And yes, there were several news about foreigners getting roughed up in metro for no reason in China.
Generally the lower social status one has, the more xenophobic one is.
Also, the older the age is, the more xenophobic one is.

College educated young Chinese people usually don't do that shit.
As for the old guys (50+), well, some in China even have Chairman Mao's photo hung on their walls. What level of global thinking can you expect?

Unfortunately it exist in my country as well(Russia) and probably in many other "monocultural" areas. Exactly as you said, just different photo on wall.

Relatively recent laws in Russia, i believe will uproot racism much faster than everywhere, and i'm already seeing very positive changes.
But how it is relevant to subject, that this law works without bringing privileges to some particular race/minorities, it is generic - just forbid to discriminate any person by gender, race, religion, etc. Doesnt matter, in minority you are or majority, and if someone like Naomi tweet about white men privilege on makers event, without having real proof it is _premeditated racial discrimination_ - will backfire to person who tweeted, that is in fact he/she is racist, by law. And i believe it should be like this.

[digsys]

UH OH !! Another disgruntled "social media" (youtube this time) pretty girl, fights back against "censorship / bad press" ! Nasim Najafi Aghdam