The Bad Shopping Experience Thread

[Simon]

Yes indeed!

[hp3310a]

So....

Normally I don't fall for this kind of stuff but my brain switched off some protection circuits at the just right moment because it absolutely had to have this HP 3458A on Ebay. For $1699.

It was a great deal, the unit was in great shape. And it wasn't real. Photos and text were lifted from an Ebay item sold a day earlier.

What is remarkable is that the seller managed to provide tracking via JCEX. Only, nothing was ever sent, the tracking (screenshot attached) is completely made up. This makes me believe that the seller has access to infrastructure at the shipping company and can inject tracking updates that appear real (save for typos and wonky grammar).

A day after the purchase I realized what I did and tried to alert Ebay to what is happening. They make this kind of report impossible. So the sale was on for almost a week and some copycat sales went live in the meantime, selling the apparently plentiful 3458A for as little as $900. I finally figured out how to get my purchase canceled but even after that, Ebay kept listing these items. Looks like they will sell anything, real or not, it will generate fees to collect in either case.

I wasn't the only one, in total this seller alone sold 8 units. The copycats sold some, too.

Unfortunately I can't just stop using Ebay, were else would I get my broken and dirty test equipment from?

[KungFuJosh]

Mouser has been shitting the bed lately. Lots of shipping delays, and slow customer service response time has been a problem.

I always get 2 day shipping to meet deadlines, or...sate my impatience. A couple packages were delayed and they said:

We process orders until 8 PM CST, please be advised the later the order is placed close to the cut off time it is not guaranteed to ship out same day.

I placed my next order at 3pm CST, and it took them 4 days to ship it. 


Now, they're also selling fake products. For example, I bought this: https://mou.sr/4oHV56l

I bought that because I wanted to try some "real" Kapton tape to compare to the generic knockoff "Koptan" stuff I bought from Amazon.

Of course, they sent the same generic "Koptan" tape instead. I emailed them:

Kapton tape is a trademarked brand, and I specifically ordered it to try the brand-name product.
 
Instead, I received a roll of generic “Koptan” tape:

 
I’m disappointed that Mouser would play such games. I expect better from you.

They replied:

Thank you for contacting Mouser Electronics.

Part number 392-100378 is manufactured by Soldered which is the brand, kapton tape is just the type of material not a brand. We have attached the datasheet for your reference.

Please let us know if you still wish to proceed with return request.

I replied that I still want to return it, and:

That’s false information.

Kapton is a trademarked brand name. “Kapton® is a registered trademark of E. I. du Pont de Nemours and Company (now managed by Qnity Electronics) used to brand a family of high-performance polyimide films and tapes.”

Use of the Kapton brand name for products from other companies is false advertising, fraudulent, and trademark infringement. Doing so by mistake is forgivable, doing so intentionally is shameful and illegal.

From the USPTO website:

Their response doesn't even make sense. If there were any truth to it, then the tape would say Kapton instead of Koptan.


Anyway, I know this is a little silly, but at the same time, I expect a company like Mouser to sell genuine products. If they're using a trademarked brand name, they shouldn't be listing "Great Value Facial Tissues" as "Kleenex."

Are they going to become as untrustworthy as feeBay for real products?

Thanks,
Josh

[Kean]

Now, they're also selling fake products. For example, I bought this: https://mou.sr/4oHV56l

As Mouser state, that is a product from Soldered Electronics in Croatia, and it is them that are misusing the du Pont trademark.
I'd suggest returning it but also complaining to them - https://soldered.com/
They appear to just be a small "maker" company, and in this case reselling some cheap material from China to expand their product portfolio.

FYI, quality Polyimide tape is *quite* expensive, and the genuine "Kapton" stuff is not readily available.  It is actually a brand that covers quite a few different Polyimide film products with various properties and adhesives.  They probably don't sell through typical distribution, aiming at research/space/defence clients.  See https://www.qnityelectronics.com/kapton-polyimide-film.html

I have some 3M brand 92 Polyimide tape from "the before times" (circa 2008), and it cost me an arm and a leg (AUD $65 in 2008 for a 12mmx33m roll, now over $100 or about USD $70).  It was listed by Farnell/element14 as "Kapton" in the description but the 3M datasheet makes no mention of the trademark.  That particular product is no longer listed by them, but I have the email showing the Kapton brand name.  Farnell/element14 no longer mention Kapton in any product descriptions that I could find, but "Kapton" is a keyword/alias in their search that brings up matches for "Polyimide".  Digikey product search does the same.

In general it sucks that the trademark has been abused much like Kleenex, but I've found most of the low cost "Koptan" and similar is actually fine for typical usage and you probably only need to go to 3M or Qnity if you have really specific requirements.

[KungFuJosh]

As Mouser state, that is a product from Soldered Electronics in Croatia, and it is them that are misusing the du Pont trademark.

Mouser is responsible for repeating the lie.

It doesn't matter how many small brands abuse the trademark. If a company like Mouser resells the fraudulent products, then they are part of the problem.

I already complained, and I told them I want to return it. I've not heard back from them.

I don't even really care about the $6. It's the principal that matters: Don't sell fake products. Don't lie or mislabel items.

They could label the tape as "Kapton style Polyimide tape" - and while Kapton could potentially go after them for that anyway, at least customers won't be directly misled or lied to by false descriptions on their website.

[Sensorcat]

Don't lie

That is honorable, but unfortunately old-fashioned nowadays. It's sad that lying for short-term gain is becoming more common.

They could label the tape as "Kapton style Polyimide tape" - and while Kapton could potentially go after them for that anyway, at least customers won't be directly misled or lied to by false descriptions on their website.

There is a clean solution for this, for both manufacturers and customers. For example, Champagne may only be called by that name if it was produced in the Champagne region. Therefore, others describe their sparkling wine as "produced using the Champagne method."

[ballsystemlord]

As Mouser state, that is a product from Soldered Electronics in Croatia, and it is them that are misusing the du Pont trademark.

Mouser is responsible for repeating the lie.

It doesn't matter how many small brands abuse the trademark. If a company like Mouser resells the fraudulent products, then they are part of the problem.

I already complained, and I told them I want to return it. I've not heard back from them.

I don't even really care about the $6. It's the principal that matters: Don't sell fake products. Don't lie or mislabel items.
<snip>

I'm 100% in agreement here. The reason that we overpay for components from these companies (instead of buying from fleabay/aliextinct) is because they are genuine products from trusted sources.

[KungFuJosh]

Don't lie

That is honorable, but unfortunately old-fashioned nowadays. It's sad that lying for short-term gain is becoming more common.

I don't care about marketing hyperbole. If a product is labeled apples, and they ship me bananas, there's a problem. I don't care if they're both fruit.

They could label the tape as "Kapton style Polyimide tape" - and while Kapton could potentially go after them for that anyway, at least customers won't be directly misled or lied to by false descriptions on their website.

There is a clean solution for this, for both manufacturers and customers. For example, Champagne may only be called by that name if it was produced in the Champagne region. Therefore, others describe their sparkling wine as "produced using the Champagne method."

That's basically what I said- "Kapton style." The term types different, but they are both protected. Kapton is a registered trademark specifically protected from the abuse shown on Mouser's website. Champagne is not a trademark, but a globally protected indication of origin. Abuse of either is fraud.

[Kean]

Mouser is responsible for repeating the lie.

Not really unless they did it knowingly.  I'm sure there is something in their T&Cs to cover that.  Even companies as large as Mouser and DigiKey cannot validate the claimed specifications of every product they list.  I am sure in a lot of cases adding products to their catalog is done by data entry staff, not engineers or product specialists.  I wouldn't be surprised if it was often done via a standard data import from data prepared by the supplier.  The product specialists would almost certainly be involved in the intake process of a new vendor/supplier, but unlikely they review every item being added.

BTW, I also see DigiKey list some products which have a product code containing the text KAPTON.  These are from Olimex based in Bulgaria, and they are also way too cheap to be the real stuff.

I don't care about marketing hyperbole. If a product is labeled apples, and they ship me bananas, there's a problem. I don't care if they're both fruit.

I've seen many errors in the listed product specifications as I have searched for things over the years, and many times I've used the feedback button to report errors.  They seem to be receptive to make corrections, but are not very fast at doing so (if ever).  Presumably this is because they follow up with the supplier to confirm.  Misuse of a trademark may get more of their attention.

They are also pretty good at handling returns in cases like this, or at least that is what I've heard as in all my years I have never had any cause to try.  The rare error is usually a missing item, or my fault and not valuable enough to return internationally.

[KungFuJosh]

Mistakes are one thing. After being informed of the error, they have a legal responsibility that goes beyond any of our opinions. At that point, the continued inappropriate use of a trademarked term becomes willful intent to defraud.

Mistakes are forgivable on a personal level if properly addressed. However, ignorance does not remove their legal requirements or responsibilities.

Beyond the legal issues surrounding this, that's shitty customer service.

On a separate note, in the past at least, I've informed them of errors on their website. They apologized, said they'd correct it, and might have refunded the part.

[HelmutDöring]

I fear what I will find when I get off my lazy *** and start checking my ferrite core compositions using my brand new VNA. I wish I had purchased that George Foreman Home ThermoGravimetric Analyzer when it was on sale at AliExpress... Then I wouldn't have to worry about whether the ferrite was baked right, or baked at all.

I once spent (well, the undergrad summer hires did anyway) two weeks replacing 2000 ferrite hub fans in a computing cluster because the manufacturer forgot to bake the ferrite, which promptly disintegrated at near to 10k rpm. By forgetting to bake the ferrite they increased their profit quite a bit... Until they had to send me 2000 new fans gratis. I wonder what folks who don't have an on-site materials science laboratory do in a similar situation? Without microscopy and TGA it would have been my word against the big Texas (Texas ~= China) based "manufacturer".

[ballsystemlord]

I fear what I will find when I get off my lazy *** and start checking my ferrite core compositions using my brand new VNA. I wish I had purchased that George Foreman Home ThermoGravimetric Analyzer when it was on sale at AliExpress... Then I wouldn't have to worry about whether the ferrite was baked right, or baked at all.

But you'd still be worried, just about something different, like your remaining bank balance.

Let us know how it goes.

[ballsystemlord]

Just a heads up for those of you trying to buy a new PSU for your PC.

I discovered, much to my disappointment, that ASRock is selling PSUs with too few ports. That is to say, they ship you X cables, but you have less than X connectors to plug those cables into. Effectively, these PSUs are defective and self-incompatible before they even leave China.

It's the first of 6 different PSU's I've owned that had too many cables and too few ports.


Also, Phanteks is selling PSUs without cabling. These are normally on-sale so it looks like a great deal. Buyer beware.

[PlainName]

What model of ASrock PSU are you complaining about?

[ballsystemlord]

ASRock Phantom Gaming PG-1000G
It has 3 SATA power cables and 1 Molex cable but only 3 plugs for drive cables on the PSU side.

[BBBbbb]

Mouser is responsible for repeating the lie.

Not really unless they did it knowingly.  I'm sure there is something in their T&Cs to cover that. 

I don't really care about this. They need to be held liable. And so does Amazon abundance of worse scams.
And so does FB/Meta for showing fraudulent ads.

Why are we accepting this premise that these companies profiting off fraudulent stuff being sold are not liable for it?

[PlainName]

ASRock Phantom Gaming PG-1000G
It has 3 SATA power cables and 1 Molex cable but only 3 plugs for drive cables on the PSU side.

Edit: Changed approach.

What do you consider to be wrong with having an extra cable? Some people will want three SATA connectors because they have all SATA drives, but some will have an old DVD or something that requires a Molex, so that's provided for them, just in case. I am failing to see an issue with this, let alone a serious one.

[ballsystemlord]

ASRock Phantom Gaming PG-1000G
It has 3 SATA power cables and 1 Molex cable but only 3 plugs for drive cables on the PSU side.

Edit: Changed approach.

What do you consider to be wrong with having an extra cable? Some people will want three SATA connectors because they have all SATA drives, but some will have an old DVD or something that requires a Molex, so that's provided for them, just in case. I am failing to see an issue with this, let alone a serious one.

Your premise is wrong IMHO. In selecting a PSU, you'll see different quantities of SATA and Melex plugs available at different wattage levels. Once you get up to the 1000W category, almost all PSUs support upwards of 8 SATA connectors and a varying amount of Molex ones. Occasionally, you'll also see a FDD connector thrown in for good measure. So, I don't see the ASRock PSU as, "having an extra cable."
Also, I do need all those cables. I have 6 fans connected through the system, 2 of which are Molex only and the others connected to a fan hub which also requires power. I have a RAID array and an SATA SSD, so I need all those SATA connectors.

I am aware that I could use SATA splitter cables and extenders, but I'm operating with the understanding that the inductive and resistive characteristics of the PSU's cabling is important for maintaining good regulation. Maybe I'm wrong about this, but I've never seen a review nor have I ever found an article or paper on the matter.

[themadhippy]

so erm you knows wot you needs so why didnt you scour the manual read the specs and look at the pictures before buying and whinging it aint suitable?it took about 30 seconds to find a picture that clearly shows what outputs are on the psu.

[ballsystemlord]

so erm you knows wot you needs so why didnt you scour the manual read the specs and look at the pictures before buying and whinging it aint suitable?it took about 30 seconds to find a picture that clearly shows what outputs are on the psu.

At the risk of sounding stupid, I didn't check the photos. I read a few reviews about the performance of several different PSUs. I didn't think what it, or any other PSU, looked like was that important. If I were looking for an SFX unit or I had a cramped case, I'd certainly be checking the PSU's exterior more closely.

EDIT: I'm not the only one who does that either. I found a review by some poor guy that purchased a corsair "shift" series unit, which shifts the connectors to the side of the unit so you can put all your cables behind your motherboard. He couldn't use the unit, due to the way his case was made so he had to return it.

[themadhippy]

didn't think what it, or any other PSU, looked like was that important

your not looking to see if it looks pretty,your looking to confirm or fill in the gaps with what the manual says,in this case looking at the picture you'd see straight away it only has 3 sata/pata outputs