Forum Moderation

[mtwieg]

Let's take today's example where I locked the thread to de-escalate things:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/do-i-misunderstand-esr-measurement-frequency-dependence-of-esr/250/

What should I have done in this case where someone was literally making fun at another posters (possibly terminal) illness?
Were they entitled to do that because they were "provoked" in some way?
Was locking the thread to de-escalate things the right approach?
Should I have deleted the offending reported posts? What about deleting the supposed "provoking" posts as well?
Should I have banned (temp or permanent?) the "provokee" or the one making fun of the terminal illness?
How long should I have spent reading the entire 10 page thread to see who said what to who first?

I looked at the reported (by more than one person) post and who made it, and told them to leave the thread, and they responded with "Feel free to ban me". Should I have banned this otherwise prolific and respected poster?, or was the right move to lock the thread to de-escalate the whole thing?

So please, tell me, what should I have done? I'd like to know what people think.

I regret not making reports about that thread over a month ago, when it was already clear that it was spiraling out of control. I smelled smoke and left the thread, rather than pulling the fire alarm.

When a thread has gone on for pages/days with only a few posters arguing back and forth about a tangent, and the OP isn't involved any more, then IMO that's when mods should close the thread or at least warn the posters to keep on topic.

Sort of like this other recent thread, which has been dormant for a few days and hopefully stays that way...

[wilfred]

Let's take today's example where I locked the thread to de-escalate things:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/beginners/do-i-misunderstand-esr-measurement-frequency-dependence-of-esr/250/

What should I have done in this case where someone was literally making fun at another posters (possibly terminal) illness?
Were they entitled to do that because they were "provoked" in some way?
Was locking the thread to de-escalate things the right approach?
Should I have deleted the offending reported posts? What about deleting the supposed "provoking" posts as well?
Should I have banned (temp or permanent?) the "provokee" or the one making fun of the terminal illness?
How long should I have spent reading the entire 10 page thread to see who said what to who first?

I looked at the reported (by more than one person) post and who made it, and told them to leave the thread, and they responded with "Feel free to ban me". Should I have banned this otherwise prolific and respected poster?, or was the right move to lock the thread to de-escalate the whole thing?

So please, tell me, what should I have done? I'd like to know what people think.

I regret not making reports about that thread over a month ago, when it was already clear that it was spiraling out of control. I smelled smoke and left the thread, rather than pulling the fire alarm.

When a thread has gone on for pages/days with only a few posters arguing back and forth about a tangent, and the OP isn't involved any more, then IMO that's when mods should close the thread or at least warn the posters to keep on topic.

You're  not alone in noticing such behavior. I'm sure lots of others just abandon threads without bothering to speak up. That's pretty much why a small number end up arguing amongst themselves. That's not new and it isn't going to change anytime soon. Leaving the thread probably helps starve it of oxygen. Some good threads get sacrificed though.

For me the sad part is it diminishes the communal vibe of the forum when things like that happen. It leads to a fracturing of the forum into smaller pieces. The big threads, The TEA thread being the biggest, can bring more people together.

[PlainName]

The big threads, The TEA thread being the biggest, can bring more people together

I am not sure about that. A big thread tends to diverge off into various related (and unrelated!) things, and you get kind of sub-threads running interleaved within it. Those still talking notionally about the thread topic can't go off and make a new thread to discuss things, and those having diverged have done so gradually, so not practical for them to go off and start a new thread. The result is the thing is unwieldy with multiple different discussions taking place, and you can have two people talking to each other about different things without realising. But, worse, is that the thread is so big that any new reader cannot take in the whole thing but just jumps in there and then. They miss things stated ad nauseam previously, or things that are important but not repeated all the time. So then you get arguments based on differing levels of what the participants think is going on.

With smaller threads, they tend to be on topic (because they haven't been around long or grown large enough to diverge yet), and are short enough for anyone to read completely fairly easily, so even new participants are au fait with it all.

[EEVblog]

You're  not alone in noticing such behavior. I'm sure lots of others just abandon threads without bothering to speak up. That's pretty much why a small number end up arguing amongst themselves. That's not new and it isn't going to change anytime soon. Leaving the thread probably helps starve it of oxygen. Some good threads get sacrificed though.

Of maybe you can bring the thread back on topic and lead by example?

[EEVblog]

The big threads, The TEA thread being the biggest, can bring more people together

I am not sure about that. A big thread tends to diverge off into various related (and unrelated!) things, and you get kind of sub-threads running interleaved within it. Those still talking notionally about the thread topic can't go off and make a new thread to discuss things, and those having diverged have done so gradually, so not practical for them to go off and start a new thread. The result is the thing is unwieldy with multiple different discussions taking place, and you can have two people talking to each other about different things without realising. But, worse, is that the thread is so big that any new reader cannot take in the whole thing but just jumps in there and then. They miss things stated ad nauseam previously, or things that are important but not repeated all the time. So then you get arguments based on differing levels of what the participants think is going on.

When a lot of the original inhabitants of the TEA thread left, they had considered it their own semi-private group with their own rules. Kinda understandable.
Strangely, when offered their own literal private forum section with their own moderator, they refused and still left 

[tggzzz]

The big threads, The TEA thread being the biggest, can bring more people together

I am not sure about that. A big thread tends to diverge off into various related (and unrelated!) things, and you get kind of sub-threads running interleaved within it. Those still talking notionally about the thread topic can't go off and make a new thread to discuss things, and those having diverged have done so gradually, so not practical for them to go off and start a new thread. The result is the thing is unwieldy with multiple different discussions taking place, and you can have two people talking to each other about different things without realising. But, worse, is that the thread is so big that any new reader cannot take in the whole thing but just jumps in there and then. They miss things stated ad nauseam previously, or things that are important but not repeated all the time. So then you get arguments based on differing levels of what the participants think is going on.

When a lot of the original inhabitants of the TEA thread left, they had considered it their own semi-private group with their own rules. Kinda understandable.
Strangely, when offered their own literal private forum section with their own moderator, they refused and still left 

People change, friendships change, schisms occur. Happens in all walks of life, corporate, political, religious, and none of those.

Trying to analyse causes of the split too deeply is a pointless and futile endeavour.

[wilfred]

You're  not alone in noticing such behavior. I'm sure lots of others just abandon threads without bothering to speak up. That's pretty much why a small number end up arguing amongst themselves. That's not new and it isn't going to change anytime soon. Leaving the thread probably helps starve it of oxygen. Some good threads get sacrificed though.

Of maybe you can bring the thread back on topic and lead by example?

I've thought the same and tried on occasion. But it isn't easily done and the task requires a critical mass of like minded people to dilute the energetic few. Most seem to think letting it die by leaving them to get bored is a better strategy. I find it hard to argue against.

[EEVblog]

FYI for those wondering, Joe still has not logged back in.

[KE5FX]

Whatever Joe's deal is, I suspect it has nothing to do with the forum or anyone here.  When people behave like he was behaving, it's a potential sign that something has gone very wrong in their own lives. 

He may be dealing with something of a similar magnitude as G0HZU, but not handling it as well.  I'm sure he'll come back at some point if he's able to.

[TUMEMBER]

FYI for those wondering, Joe still has not logged back in.

Don't worry so much. "You can't save the whole world." Maybe he reached a similar point to me a while ago. I was tired of what I considered "important" but didn't want to admit to myself.

Screw the fish. If they only bring frustration, it's time to take a break from them.


I took care of the flowers.

[G0HZU]

If it helps, I do plan to start a fresh thread about the three voltage method. The aim will be to show what can be expected from it. I do think it is an elegant method if the aim is to do a sanity check of a low cost ESR meter reading.

A lot depends on the purity and stability of the test source and the linearity of the AC DVM. The absolute calibration of the DVM is less important IMO. I have been using this setup for about 10 years to test caps and inductors, mainly to evaluate parts used in PSUs where I can apply a test bias the the DUT.

I have now tried 4 different signal sources and three different AC DVMs and I get essentially the same results across them all. As long as the sense resistor value is chosen carefully, the three voltages should have similar magnitudes and the linearity of the DVM should be in the low ppm region if it is a decent model and in good condition and the three voltages are similar in magnitude.

The other things to watch out for are noise/pickup issues if low cost BNC cables/connectors are used (especially if anything moves during the voltage measurements) and I used a short twisted pair connection to the DVM to also help minimise pickup. Don't use regular long (untwisted) DVM leads to make the voltage measurements.

I'm still too unwell to do much and run out of energy very easily. I have to walk a certain (increasing) distance each day and have to do this at least twice a day and this is hard work for me. So I don't know when I can start the new thread. I'll need to buy some suitable test caps as well.

[EEVblog]

I'm still too unwell to do much and run out of energy very easily. I have to walk a certain (increasing) distance each day and have to do this at least twice a day and this is hard work for me. So I don't know when I can start the new thread. I'll need to buy some suitable test caps as well.

I hope you get better, exercise will be good for you, your body will respond positively, keep it up.

[Kean]

FYI for those wondering, Joe still has not logged back in.

I seem to recall something quite similar happening before.  He needed a break for whatever reason, but he was back within a month or two.
Maybe I am mixing him up with someone else...

[EEVblog]

I seem to recall something quite similar happening before.  He needed a break for whatever reason, but he was back within a month or two.
Maybe I am mixing him up with someone else...

I do hope he comes back.

[Monkeh]

I seem to recall something quite similar happening before.  He needed a break for whatever reason, but he was back within a month or two.
Maybe I am mixing him up with someone else...

I do hope he comes back.

With a better attitude.

[Kean]

I agree with both of you.

Like many others, I have been on the receiving end of his abrasiveness.  His contributions are valuable, it is just a pity they come with such an attitude.  It annoying but not a huge deal.
But I feel the way he responded to G0HZU was totally unacceptable, and I hope he is getting help for whatever caused him to act out like that.

[shapirus]

I wonder if it's feasible to find an automated way of building a graph to visualize the average number of moderatorial actions (excluding purely technical ones, e.g. banning spam and/or AI bots) per unit of time, normalized (divided) by the overall number of new or edited posts, across a long period, say, a year or several years.

It would be very curious to look at. I'm pretty sure we would see some consistent spikes on such a graph, and I would expect them to be in springs and autumns.

[RoGeorge]

It would be very curious to look at. I'm pretty sure we would see some consistent spikes on such a graph, and I would expect them to be in springs and autumns.

I would expect such spikes to be seen when too much "heat" is pushed into social media and/or broadcasting channels, because when propaganda is dialed up, people become more anxious, divided, suspicious, and prone to start a fight with each other.  I'm talking about mass manipulation periods, in this spirit:  https://youtube.com/shorts/BqP_NjHhowQ

Eventually, the day to day behavior is affected, so it is expected to see more fights and more inflammatory derails even here, on EEVblog.  Then the moderators will have to lock topics, or even ban users.

Aside from that, once in a while I would expect huge spikes in moderation during spam bots attacks.

[MK14]

I agree with both of you.

Like many others, I have been on the receiving end of his abrasiveness.  His contributions are valuable, it is just a pity they come with such an attitude.  It annoying but not a huge deal.
But I feel the way he responded to G0HZU was totally unacceptable, and I hope he is getting help for whatever caused him to act out like that.

You're showing a lot of wisdom there!

I'm glad I don't have to decide who gets banned or not.  It must be a rather difficult and potentially stressful thing.  With few or little thanks for your efforts, I suspect.

[tggzzz]

Eventually, the day to day behavior is affected, so it is expected to see more fights and more inflammatory derails even here, on EEVblog.  Then the moderators will have to lock topics, or even ban users.

If the behaviour seen in the Elon Musk thread spreads elsewhere, EEVBlog Forum will have taken a turn towards a bad direction.

At least with usenet it is possible to ignore trolls and time wasters. That is not possible on a forum such as this, and it seems unlikely it can be made possible. (For the avoidance of doubt, the "ignore member" list is grossly deficient in that respect)

[abeyer]

If the behaviour seen in the Elon Musk thread spreads elsewhere, EEVBlog Forum will have taken a turn towards a bad direction.

I get the motivation behind wanting to "quarantine" subjects like w/the Elon thread, or the norbert drama one, etc... it certainly makes it easy to say "just stay out of the thread if you don't want to see it." But this is exactly why doing that concerns me... people who do partake in them are just more likely to come away with the sense that what you see there is acceptable for the forum in general, when the consensus seems to be that it's not, or there never would have been the need to quarantine it in the first place.

[EEVblog]

If the behaviour seen in the Elon Musk thread spreads elsewhere, EEVBlog Forum will have taken a turn towards a bad direction.

That exact same stuff was already on the forum, just spread out in various different threads.

At least with usenet it is possible to ignore trolls and time wasters. That is not possible on a forum such as this, and it seems unlikely it can be made possible. (For the avoidance of doubt, the "ignore member" list is grossly deficient in that respect)

Skill issue.

[RoGeorge]

At least with usenet it is possible to ignore trolls and time wasters. That is not possible on a forum such as this, and it seems unlikely it can be made possible. (For the avoidance of doubt, the "ignore member" list is grossly deficient in that respect)

Skill issue.

The SMF platform that is used to implement this forum allows to "ignore user", "ignore topic", "ignore section".  For anybody for whom these SMF blocking mechanisms are not enough, there is yet another way to ignore a user:  from the web browser's adblocker.

In the ublockOrigin plugin of your favorite web browser, click ublockOrigin geared wheels for "settings", and in the the "My filters" tab, specify the html syntax you want to block.  For example, to never see any posts that were made by the fictive username "userBad", add these 3 lines of texts (copy/paste) in the "My filters" tab of your uBlockOrigin browser plugin:

Code: [Select]

[url=http://www.eevblog.com#]www.eevblog.com#[/url]#^div.windowbg:has(div.poster > h4 > a[title="View the profile of userBad"])
[url=http://www.eevblog.com#]www.eevblog.com#[/url]#^div.windowbg2:has(div.poster > h4 > a[title="View the profile of userBad"])
[url=http://www.eevblog.com#]www.eevblog.com#[/url]#^tr > td > a[title="View the profile of userBad"]:upward(2)
then "Apply changes".  For each new username you don't want to see, you'll need to add another 3 more lines just like the ones posted above, except in each of these 3 new lines, you replace userBad with the new username.

If you need a temporary ban lift (for example to make sense of a discussions in which there are posts made by users that were made invisible from the uBlockOrigin "My filters"), you can temporary disable the uBlockOrigin and refresh the webpage (3 clicks in the uBlockOrigin), read the uncensored webpage, then another 3 clicks to enable again the adblocker.

[BradC]

With a better attitude.

It takes two to tango. A couple of observations :

- I moderate another forum where we had a resident alcoholic. He'd get boozed up and barge in trying to pick a fight (not saying this applies to Joe). If someone took the bait then it'd be on for young and old. Life has become a lot simpler since he got sober.

- In the past I've had a few "issues" myself. These have seen me make forum posts that in hindsight I'm not proud of (some here, most elsewhere). I can/could edit them, but they're a reminder of where I've come from and how I needed to grow up. One thing I never did was bite back (probably because I'd had a nights sleep and reflected).

I'm on a number of forums. Most have at least one person that pushes my buttons, but my super-power is being able to just scroll past and let it go. My "Ignore list" is internal. It has taken me a lot of years to get here, but as my wife says "Hurt people hurt". Maybe you don't know why they're hurt and see it as just obnoxious trolling, but there might be an underlying issue. Just "scroll on by".

Joe is a valuable contributor. He has let loose and none of us know why. Just ignore the jibes and work around it.

[ebastler]

@Dave, please consider moving the "Elon Musk" thread into the Supporters Lounge. It seems that the large majority of posters there are regulars with > 1000 posts anyway. That way you guys can ramble on at your hearts' content without setting a bad example to casual visitors.