Author Topic: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope  (Read 33932 times)

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Offline maginnovision

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #50 on: May 26, 2020, 05:48:37 pm »
Sounds like it's still a toy scope, not a serious instrument, and the bandwidth is still a lie. As expected.

Anybody could have told you that just from the price, no need to read the thread or get snobbish over it.

Yea. Multiple people bought one because they thought it'd be the same thing as the last one. I think multiple people thought it was going to be something more because of the form factor change. If you'd read the thread you'd see that I had. It's also not me getting snobbish I'm summarizing for people who don't know better. They see all the screenshots and won't know what to make of it. Especially with the guy performing all the tests being way too happy with a fairly expensive toy scope. Maybe someone will do like ataradov did with the smaller one and write new firmware for it but until then I'd rather people with limited budgets not waste that money.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #51 on: May 26, 2020, 06:19:19 pm »
....until then I'd rather people with limited budgets not waste that money.

I can definitely think of a few usage cases for it.

Especially with the guy performing all the tests being way too happy with a fairly expensive toy scope.

And so can he.

I'd rather people with limited budgets not waste that money

It might be very good value for money in the right circumstances.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #52 on: May 26, 2020, 06:37:10 pm »
Sounds like it's still a toy scope, not a serious instrument, and the bandwidth is still a lie. As expected.

Anybody could have told you that just from the price, no need to read the thread or get snobbish over it.

Yea. Multiple people bought one because they thought it'd be the same thing as the last one. I think multiple people thought it was going to be something more because of the form factor change. If you'd read the thread you'd see that I had. It's also not me getting snobbish I'm summarizing for people who don't know better. They see all the screenshots and won't know what to make of it. Especially with the guy performing all the tests being way too happy with a fairly expensive toy scope. Maybe someone will do like ataradov did with the smaller one and write new firmware for it but until then I'd rather people with limited budgets not waste that money.
At this price level you can't really go wrong. Worst case you end up with a portable scope you can use on the road. Someone else made the suggestion for the 60% more expensive Hantek but at that point you better save more money and buy a real (entry level) oscilloscope. But I agree this FNIRSI-1013D portable scope's price is at the tipping point where you have to consider spending around $450 on a real entry level oscilloscope or spend $130 and get by for a couple of years.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 07:01:52 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #53 on: May 26, 2020, 06:42:54 pm »
It sounds like the "trigger" is as unstable as their first smaller version. If that's the case I'd recommend a meter with plotting(sometimes called oscilloscope) capabilities over this. You get something that can do what this thing can do but you'd also get a meter. Alternatively if you really want something that sort of works I'd recommend finding the smaller cheaper one and using ataradovs firmware.

EDIT: Are you saying the hantek is worth less than this thing you'd seemingly recommend to anybody? My comments were for people who don't know better not for people who know they might be able to use this. It can't even measure reliably though so I can't imagine I'd ever use this even if I had one although I do have multiple handheld battery powered scopes too.
« Last Edit: May 26, 2020, 06:52:50 pm by maginnovision »
 

Offline gfmucci

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #54 on: May 26, 2020, 06:53:57 pm »
Yup.  It goes sort of like this...

$40 scope = "toy".  Need a real scope.

$140 Frinsi scope = "toy".  Nope.  Need a "real" scope.

$210 Hantek scope = "toy".  Nope.  Need a "real" scope.

$400 Siglent scope = "nope, not good enough, need a "real" scope.

I look at it this way:  Different scopes for different folks.
 
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Offline maginnovision

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #55 on: May 26, 2020, 06:55:53 pm »
I look at it this way:  Different scopes for different folks.

Beginners usually don't have enough knowledge to determine what would be useful but a stable trigger and working measurements are usually a baseline.
 

Offline gfmucci

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #56 on: May 26, 2020, 07:00:44 pm »
I look at it this way:  Different scopes for different folks.

Beginners usually don't have enough knowledge to determine what would be useful but a stable trigger and working measurements are usually a baseline.
Not everyone has the same need for the same degree of stability required for their diverse applications.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #57 on: May 26, 2020, 07:12:45 pm »
Got it.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #58 on: May 26, 2020, 07:42:33 pm »
working measurements are usually a baseline.

I guess my Rigol is broken by design then. It only has about 5% accuracy according to the specification.
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #59 on: May 26, 2020, 07:44:25 pm »
Meeting specs isn't broken.
 

Offline boggis the cat

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #60 on: May 27, 2020, 07:43:25 am »
Especially with the guy performing all the tests being way too happy with a fairly expensive toy scope.

It works within limitations, and certainly doesn't meet the amplitude specifications.  Perhaps that can be adjusted, perhaps not.  I have (predictably) not received a reply from FNIRSI.  It should suffice for my intended usage.

I see a lot of instruments at various price levels.  Some 'professional' appearing, expensive, stuff is not very good.  Some cheap stuff is very good.  Often you are paying for support (or lack thereof) and testing to meet safety specifications.

This thing would probably be fine connected up to a high-energy circuit (e.g. mains supply) – or it might explode in your face.  If you want to do that safely, you're going to have to cough up a lot more money for a 'proper' scopemeter.  If you just want to measure a non-'high potential to explode in your face' circuit quickly, this will work OK.
 

Offline boggis the cat

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #61 on: May 27, 2020, 08:01:59 am »
A few more captures using the 'X-Y' mode.  Using my super-duper FeelElec FY6800.  (Special usage to please maginnovision.  :D  Now who can tell which 'toy' is at fault?  :-DD)

30_c.png – 10 kHz @ 5 Vpp on each channel, 90° phase offset between channels.  Note the offset along the y-axis - I don't know why it is doing this.
31_c.png – same, but shifted to centre by adding an offset (note the Vavg for CH1 is now +600 mV).
32_c.png and 33_c.png – testing where the limits are.  So it's one full screen height in both x and y - no off-screen capacity.
34_c.png and 35_c.png – changed inputs: CH1 is 30 kHz, CH2 is 24 kHz, with phase offset 75°.

I can't think of any other useful tests.  This is a fairly basic instrument, so I'm not sure what else to do.  If anyone has any ideas let me know.


Also, FYI:

The screen captures are natively '.bmp' format at 800 000 bytes each.  So not super-efficient storage size, but quick to process (about two seconds).  My unit has a 'Sandisk' branded 1 GB micro-SD card in it.  Real?  Probably not.

Waveform captures are 15 000 bytes.  Take slightly longer than a screen capture - maybe 2.5 seconds.  Why 15 000 bytes?  Don't know.  Perhaps that's the full memory for data points?
 
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Offline maginnovision

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #62 on: May 27, 2020, 08:22:57 am »
Quote
(Special usage to please maginnovision.  :D  Now who can tell which 'toy' is at fault?  :-DD)

I don't have any problems with the FY6800. I think you're confusing me with someone who hates cheap shit, or chinese shit? I don't care what something costs or where it comes from when it does the job it's supposed to do. As far as I can tell there is nothing about this that is a substantial upgrade over their last iteration which was bad enough a forum member wrote his own firmware for it. It had plenty of issues and this one seems to as well. Apparently I can't even get people to agree on a baseline so I recommend everyone go out and buy one. It'll be my new newbie scope recommendation since everyone is saying I'm just a negative nancy.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 08:25:46 am by maginnovision »
 
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Offline boggis the cat

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #63 on: May 27, 2020, 08:36:46 am »
As far as I can tell there is nothing about this that is a substantial upgrade over their last iteration which was bad enough a forum member wrote his own firmware for it. It had plenty of issues and this one seems to as well.

If you can write new firmware for this, then that’s a positive really.

Is it open-source?

Quote
Apparently I can't even get people to agree on a baseline so I recommend everyone go out and buy one. It'll be my new newbie scope recommendation since everyone is saying I'm just a negative nancy.

OK.  You can be the ‘anti-Dave’.  :D
 

Offline maginnovision

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #64 on: May 27, 2020, 09:13:35 am »
Ataradov did release the source. I don't know if this particular scope it is possible though since there is no information on the hardware. The company who makes this doesn't release the source code as far as I know.

I'm not sure what an anti-dave is but you can call me whatever you like.
 

Offline all_repair

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #65 on: May 27, 2020, 10:47:06 am »
Can take a look at DSO1511, single channel with FPGA inside for processing.  From the demo, software is more refine.  I already have a FNIRSI-5012H, so I can wait and wait.  For me, aAt the moment FNIRSI-5012H with the original software is fulfilling my simple need.  All those buttons are simple to use.
 

Offline AlcidePiR2

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #66 on: May 27, 2020, 12:19:19 pm »
I just received  my ADS1013D from Banggood for which I paid 118 € including shipping ( DHL).
This is probably the same as the  FNIRSI

I just unpacked it, tested its rise time with the excellent pulse generator from Leo Bodnar
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/yet-another-fast-edge-pulse-generator/msg1251589/#msg1251589

The performances are not as advertised. They say <3 ns on the back.
I measure more like 12 ns ( see pict attached). So if you think of the bandwidth as 0.35/rt, it gives a bandwidth of  30 Mhz instead of the 100 Mhz as advertised.
But apart from that (which I expected)  I consider it as a very valuable piece of equipment, and a real oscilloscope with  a huge advantage over
my previous oscilloscopes  ( I have many anchor boats and a recent  rigol 1054Z)

- No power chord. Works on internal, rechargeable battery.
- totally isolated
- No Fan : no noise ( this is also the case of my TDS220 which I use often because of that and because  of its light weight).
- fast and responsive  touch screen with a straightforward interface.
- large memory. Easy to retrieve the screen shots by USB connector.

- It is provided  with two x1 x10  full size probes ( I should test them on another scope).

So at  1/3 of the price of the Rigol1054z, I would definitely recommend it to a beginner, and to everyone who wants a battery powered scope. Within  the known limitations of the bandwidth to 25-30 Mhz.

I should also say that the included manual is small but informative and readable.

I am very happy with this purchase. 

A big advantage over many more sophisticated scopes :  from switching ON to signal on the screen :  < 4s.  Hard to beat !

Added : It seems  to freeze when you use the USB connection.
 Yes, definitively, it does not like to be hooked by the USB cable. Many bad behaviours in this case.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 12:49:06 pm by AlcidePiR2 »
 
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Offline AlcidePiR2

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #67 on: May 27, 2020, 01:24:49 pm »
Here are the  pictures of the internal views . They confirm what Kosmic has posted.


Only the board color seems to have changed.

The nice thing is that the internal memory is provided by  a 1 Gb  SD card. I have changed it with a 32 Gb card  and it works like a charm.

As the pictures are only 800 k. This is practically infinite memory. Waves can also be stored and retreived.

The missing part is a file manager, but this is already very nice, as accessing the sd card is easy ( 5 screws ) .
Incidently, there is space for a larger battery, so we can think that a hack could be done  to increase the

On time  of the device.

 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #68 on: May 27, 2020, 01:51:10 pm »
I'm currently working on a musical synthesizer and I'd buy one right now if that FFT was just a teeny bit better.

From the few videos and screenshots I've seen so far it has a couple of artefacts that worry me.

[attachimg=1]

eg. Why do the height of the peaks on the square wave in that image alternate tall/short? Are the tall ones harmonics and the short ones aliases? I don't know the source of the signal in that video and the horizontal axis has no scale.

Can the measurement cursors be used on the FFT? Is there any control of the FFT horizontal scale or does it simply follow the horizontal timebase? :-//

I'd love to have one to play with for a couple of hours.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 01:53:02 pm by Fungus »
 
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Offline AlcidePiR2

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #69 on: May 27, 2020, 03:56:48 pm »
eg. Why do the height of the peaks on the square wave in that image alternate tall/short? Are the tall ones harmonics and the short ones aliases? I don't know the source of the signal in that video and the horizontal axis has no scale.

Can the measurement cursors be used on the FFT? Is there any control of the FFT horizontal scale or does it simply follow the horizontal timebase? :-//

I'd love to have one to play with for a couple of hours.

There is not much action on the scale of the FFT.  The scale changes with the time division setting but nothing is written. Either you assume that  your main frequency is the largest peak, or you provide a sine wave  in the other channel for reference.

I dont see  as much alternate high low peaks as  there is in the picture you found;

Here there is a small alternation of high and low peak, but this is due to the FFT. If the frequency matches exactly one of the main frequency of the FFT, you have a high isolated peak. If you are further from one of the  FFT  harmonics, yoiu have a smaller, but broader peak.  This si seen below, but nothing surprising, and nothing that
reflects a priori a bad behavior of the scope.
[attachimg=2]


[attachimg=3]
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 04:00:17 pm by AlcidePiR2 »
 
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Offline gfmucci

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #70 on: May 27, 2020, 04:41:48 pm »
Fugus said "I can definitely think of a few usage cases for it."

Which brings me to something that would be helpful to noobs like me and hopefully others.  I did see the extensive table that lists scopes ranging in price from a few dollars to thousands - must be several hundred listed.

I would like to see a pared down, simplified list in the BELOW $400 scope range that has at least the following genralized categories, with BOLD text being really good to know:

* Make/model
* Year produced
* Price range, e.g $20 to $60; $60 to $150; $150-$250; $250 and above   (The $20 to $60 range may be good for random exploration, without need for accuracy.  The $60 to $150 range may provide reasonable accuracy for limited uses.  The $150 to $250 range, etc. etc.
* Screen size/pixels
* # channels
* Band width, claimed
* Band width, useful and reliable (It appears that scopes generally less than $200 have "useful and reliable bandwidth" about one third of stated spec.)
* Trigger action:  Poor, fair, good, excellent or whatever other categories might be helpful
* User interface/ease of use:  Poor, fair, good, excellent
* Particularly useful features or characteristics; or grossly lacking features that unexpectedly limit functionality in the price range.
* Examples of best uses:
* Examples of what they do not do well or at all:

So, what are the "best uses" for this FNISI-1013D?  I'm mainly into audio and using tools for observing and learning electronic and audio characteristics (e.g. frequency, distortion, etc.).  If I don't need to spend an extra $100 for a "real scope" I'd rather not.

If this needs to be moved to the "noob" section, let me know and I'll have it moved.
« Last Edit: May 27, 2020, 05:03:19 pm by gfmucci »
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #71 on: May 27, 2020, 05:15:14 pm »
Here there is a small alternation of high and low peak, but this is due to the FFT. If the frequency matches exactly one of the main frequency of the FFT, you have a high isolated peak. If you are further from one of the  FFT  harmonics, yoiu have a smaller, but broader peak.

So the peak is shorter because it's "smeared" across two pixels...

Does the horizontal scale of the FFT change when you change the timebase of the 'scope? It would be good to zoom in on the first few harmonics.

 

Online nctnico

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #72 on: May 27, 2020, 05:42:40 pm »
@gfmucci:

I put tools & equipment in three different categories:
1) Useful although limited but cheap enough to throw away.
2) Relatively cheap and supposedly fully featured but flawed
3) Expensive but working as it should.

I avoid the tools & equipment in category 2. They cost a reasonable amount of money but the flaws are like an itch that never goes away. Having to 'make do' and use workarounds takes the fun away from the project.

I put the oscilloscope this thread is about in category 1 but the price is at the high end of the range.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Offline AlcidePiR2

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #73 on: May 27, 2020, 06:13:23 pm »
@nctnico

There is also the category of tools

 4) Cheap, not full featured, but fulfill your needs.

I believe  ADS1013D is in this category. You dont need to throw it away. It has a form factor that is difficult to beat. Up to now, cheap wireless oscillo
have not been suitable for general workshop use.  I dont think its the same for this one, and I really think it opens a new game.
Its like the ANENG AN8008 multimeters. For most uses, you dont need more.

This is really  something to buy for one who is starting in electronics, even if he does not know what is an oscilloscope. When he will get more knowledgeable, he will
buy a better scope, but will keep the use of this one, as most probably his better scope will not be wireless.
 
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Offline AlcidePiR2

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Re: FNIRSI-1013D "100MHz" tablet oscilloscope
« Reply #74 on: May 27, 2020, 06:18:11 pm »
So the peak is shorter because it's "smeared" across two pixels...
In some sense, yes. But it is already in the mathematical FFT of the signal, not only in the display.

Quote
Does the horizontal scale of the FFT change when you change the timebase of the 'scope? It would be good to zoom in on the first few harmonics.

You can act on the vertical and horizontal scale, but in a limited way.

Vertically, you can change the scale by acting on the vertical scale of the signal, but the spectrum is crop on the top.
Horizontally, you can change the scale by acting on the time scale, but  from what I have seen, you cannot scroll horizontally the spectrum. You will
have access only to the beginning part ( which is what you asked for).


 


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