Frustrating after sale Vision Engineering - Mantis Elite

[rodpp]

Can the Microscope be reasonably easily opened up (if necessary, using instructions/service manuals), and quickly/easily be cleaned ?

Maybe the packaging got subjected to changing temperatures while it was originally sent to you. This maybe caused water/damp to occur, inside the package. Which could have made some mold and stuff, I guess.

If it was on glass, then I would have thought it should be fairly easily cleaned ?
(But I suppose great care is needed, to avoid scratching the optical glass).

Was there any kind of guarantee with the unit, and who was the guarantee with ?

In the UK, we can take companies to the small claims court, if there are disputes. I don't know how it works in Brazil, and if the reseller is outside of Brazil, that makes it even more complicated.

Can the Microscope be reasonably easily opened up (if necessary, using instructions/service manuals), and quickly/easily be cleaned ?
I really don't know. I remember of reading something from Dave regarding the sensible optical components and because that Vision recommended only especialists to open the Mantis and Dave do not did the famous "take it apart".

Maybe the packaging got subjected to changing temperatures while it was originally sent to you. This maybe caused water/damp to occur, inside the package. Which could have made some mold and stuff, I guess.
It could be, but the freight time from São Paulo to my house was about only 2 or 3 days.


If it was on glass, then I would have thought it should be fairly easily cleaned ?
(But I suppose great care is needed, to avoid scratching the optical glass).
There are internal fungus too.

Was there any kind of guarantee with the unit, and who was the guarantee with ?
The authorized non-exclusive reseller advertized a 12 months waranty.

In the UK, we can take companies to the small claims court, if there are disputes. I don't know how it works in Brazil, and if the reseller is outside of Brazil, that makes it even more complicated.
Here we have small claims court too. But I was trying everything before set a case in court.

[rodpp]

t is not a guy, it is an authorized non-exclusive reseller of VE in Brazil. It is a company from São Paulo.

They where.
If it is a company, it is more easy to win a lawsuit ....consumers are very well defended in Brazil....

My purchase was about 6 months ago and in that ocasion they were an authorized non-exclusive reseller of VE in Brazil.

I was under the assumption you bought it like this. If mould is now a problem after 6 months, could it but be something with the environment you're in?

The microscope arrived with fungus.

[RGB255_0_0]

t is not a guy, it is an authorized non-exclusive reseller of VE in Brazil. It is a company from São Paulo.

They where.
If it is a company, it is more easy to win a lawsuit ....consumers are very well defended in Brazil....

My purchase was about 6 months ago and in that ocasion they were an authorized non-exclusive reseller of VE in Brazil.

I was under the assumption you bought it like this. If mould is now a problem after 6 months, could it but be something with the environment you're in?

The microscope arrived with fungus.

Getting really confused here.

It's taken you 6 months to dispute this issue with VE?

[wraper]

Can the Microscope be reasonably easily opened up (if necessary, using instructions/service manuals), and quickly/easily be cleaned ?

Lenses can be cleaned from fungus but it is not how repair must be done properly. Fungus don't grow on nothing, it eats away optical coating on the optics, therefore damaged parts must be exchanged.

[rodpp]

You do not seem to want to understand.

Let's take the example of an authorized seller of a car brand that sells you a used (demo = used) car of that brand that they described as being "like new".

You buy it and you realize that the engine is worn out and the car is unusable.

In which you must claim?

In the car manufacturer?

No, there was fraud and dishonesty of the authorized dealer, and he alone, is responsible for his fraudulent acts.

The manufacturer has not participated in this fraud, he is not complicit, on the contrary, it is also a victim because his name is messed publicly.

I respect your opinion, but mine is different.

The authorized dealer carry the VE trademark and it has a big weigh in the consumer decision. When they say "We are a Vision's local reseller/distribuitor" they are bringing trust to the table, because the consumer expect a support from the manufacturer, buying from authorized resellers. Otherwise it would be a gray market product, without any kind of support except from the seller.

When the dealer and VE do an agreement (or whatever business relationship) to the dealer sell VE equipment, the dealer is exploring new markets, expanding VE presence in Brazil, bringing VE equipments to local technical fair and exibitions, presenting VE products to potential clients and so on. All this supported by VE, including providing demo equipments.

If everything goes well it is good for VE and for the dealer, and it is fair.

What I was expecting is if something goes wrong, mainly a harm to the consumer, that the manufacturer take responsibility to solve the problem and after that handle the problem with the partner as an internal problem.

[wraper]

Getting really confused here.

It's taken you 6 months to dispute this issue with VE?

maybe read the opening post?

[rodpp]

t is not a guy, it is an authorized non-exclusive reseller of VE in Brazil. It is a company from São Paulo.

They where.
If it is a company, it is more easy to win a lawsuit ....consumers are very well defended in Brazil....

My purchase was about 6 months ago and in that ocasion they were an authorized non-exclusive reseller of VE in Brazil.

I was under the assumption you bought it like this. If mould is now a problem after 6 months, could it but be something with the environment you're in?

The microscope arrived with fungus.

Getting really confused here.

It's taken you 6 months to dispute this issue with VE?

No, the 6 months is from the payment. After that I was disputing with the dealer for months without success. After that a little more than 2 weeks in contact with Vision Engineering UK and then I received this answer.

[MK14]

Can the Microscope be reasonably easily opened up (if necessary, using instructions/service manuals), and quickly/easily be cleaned ?

Lenses can be cleaned from fungus but it is not how repair must be done properly. Fungus don't grow on nothing, it eats away optical coating on the optics, therefore damaged parts must be exchanged.

I see. I did not realize. That is serious damage then, since it is not a quick and easy clean/repair. Maybe the item is NOT fit for purpose.

To the OP:

Often/usually (in the UK), just by threatening to go to them or by actually going to the small claims courts (I think it costs just £5 or a bit more, for the initial filing to start the process off). The company (distributor in your case) will immediately offer a settlement, which resolves the issue.

If that does not work (i.e. the small claims court has to progress), then (Relating to the UK, but it maybe applies to Brazil).

Simply photographing it and describing the issues maybe enough. If not (best to get advice on best course of action) then I think you may have to do something on the lines of getting an independent technical expert to check the Microscope out and report on its condition (a report). This can then be submitted to the courts if necessary.

[oldway]

I respect your opinion, but mine is different.

The authorized dealer carry the VE trademark and it has a big weigh in the consumer decision. When they say "We are a Vision's local reseller/distribuitor" they are bringing trust to the table, because the consumer expect a support from the manufacturer, buying from authorized resellers. Otherwise it would be a gray market product, without any kind of support except from the seller.

When the dealer and MLA do an agreement (or whatever business relationship) to the dealer sell VE equipment, the dealer is exploring new markets, expanding VE presence in Brazil, bringing VE equipments to local technical fair and exibitions, presenting VE products to potential clients and so on. All this supported by VE, including providing demo equipments.

If everything goes well it is good for VE and for the dealer, and it is fair.

What I was expecting is if something goes wrong, mainly a harm to the consumer, that the manufacturer take responsibility to solve the problem and after that handle the problem with the partner as an internal problem.

You are wrong because it was not a new product.
When a dealer sell an used product or even a demo product (that's what he said but no way to proove it), the warranty he give to you is not the warranty of the manufacturer, but his own waranty.
As long you don't proove there is some  manufacturing defect, the responsability of the manufacturer is not engaged.

[MK14]

I respect your opinion, but mine is different.

The authorized dealer carry the VE trademark and it has a big weigh in the consumer decision.
cut........

You should be SAFE, when you buy stuff (especially expensive things), when you do it through the official channels. If that is NOT the case, then the distributor AND the manufacturer should** help out.

N.B. should** is NOT necessarily the same as LEGALLY responsible (as regards the UK headquarters of the company) though. Unfortunately.

[oldway]

You should be SAFE, when you buy stuff (especially expensive things), when you do it through the official channels. If that is NOT the case, then the distributor AND the manufacturer should** help out.

N.B. should** is NOT necessarily the same as LEGALLY responsible though. Unfortunately.

Safe is a word that does not exist in Brazil.
Everyone in Brazil knows he always must beware in business.
If you buy something used, even in a large company, always check everything yourself before you buy.

Most of the Brazilian do not pay in cash, but credit, which gives a certain security.

[rodpp]

You should be SAFE, when you buy stuff (especially expensive things), when you do it through the official channels. If that is NOT the case, then the distributor AND the manufacturer should** help out.

N.B. should** is NOT necessarily the same as LEGALLY responsible though. Unfortunately.

Safe is a word that does not exist in Brazil.
Everyone in Brazil knows he always must beware in business.
If you buy something used, even in a large company, always check everything yourself before you buy.

Most of the Brazilian do not pay in cash, but credit, which gives a certain security.

I live in Brazil and don't share your thoughs.

[Muttley Snickers]

If the microscope is still in your possession please take at least minimum precautionary measures when handling said device, even though it was sold as a demo unit you don't really know from whence it came or what it had been used for, for all we know that fungus could in fact be a virulent ebola strain or even worse mushrooms.   

[rodpp]

Can the Microscope be reasonably easily opened up (if necessary, using instructions/service manuals), and quickly/easily be cleaned ?

Lenses can be cleaned from fungus but it is not how repair must be done properly. Fungus don't grow on nothing, it eats away optical coating on the optics, therefore damaged parts must be exchanged.

I see. I did not realize. That is serious damage then, since it is not a quick and easy clean/repair. Maybe the item is NOT fit for purpose.

To the OP:

Often/usually (in the UK), just by threatening to go to them or by actually going to the small claims courts (I think it costs just £5 or a bit more, for the initial filing to start the process off). The company (distributor in your case) will immediately offer a settlement, which resolves the issue.

If that does not work (i.e. the small claims court has to progress), then (Relating to the UK, but it maybe applies to Brazil).

Simply photographing it and describing the issues maybe enough. If not (best to get advice on best course of action) then I think you may have to do something on the lines of getting an independent technical expert to check the Microscope out and report on its condition (a report). This can then be submitted to the courts if necessary.

Thank you!

Here in Brazil the small claims court is free of charge and the process is simple too.

[oldway]

I live in Brazil and don't share your thoughs.

I lived and worked in Brazil for more than 20 years and I have a lot of brasilians friends who share my thoughs

[rodpp]

I live in Brazil and don't share your thoughs.

I lived and worked in Brazil for more than 20 years and I have a lot of brasilians friends who share my thoughs

Ok, fortunately people can have different thoughs.

Safe is a word that does not exist in Brazil.

As it seems, neither exist to Vision Engineering...

[EEVblog]

Now I received an answer from Vision Engineering UK that says something like: "We understand your reasons but you purchased from a Vision's representative, not from Vision Engineering itself. So sorry, we can't do nothing to you."

What part of representative don't they understand?
This is corporate suicide on the part of Vision Engineering 

[rodpp]

Now I received an answer from Vision Engineering UK that says something like: "We understand your reasons but you purchased from a Vision's representative, not from Vision Engineering itself. So sorry, we can't do nothing to you."

What part of representative don't they understand?
This is corporate suicide on the part of Vision Engineering 

Hi Dave, thank you for answering.

Please note that as I said in another post, Vision Engineering corrected me in an email answer. They said:

"SELLER_NAME is NOT a representative of Vision Engineering (VE), but they were a non-exclusive reseller of VE in Brazil."

And they understand that they have no responsability in Vision Engineering authorized non-exclusive resellers. They said:

"I agree with all the issues you have listed, however these must be addressed to SELLER_NAME or to local authorities, as VE has no involvement in any of these issues. I appreciate that it is a frustrating experience for you, however I am not sure that I understand what you are expecting from Vision Engineering."

I will edit the first post with this information.

[TiN]

You mentioned there was 12 month warranty from this reseller. Why not just claim warranty first day you got it, but instead go for 6month argue? 

[rodpp]

You mentioned there was 12 month warranty from this reseller. Why not just claim warranty first day you got it, but instead go for 6month argue? 

Please read the first post, I claimed in the first day and I have no solution yet.

[Towger]

Please note that as I said in another post, Vision Engineering corrected me in an email answer. They said:

"SELLER_NAME is NOT a representative of Vision Engineering (VE), but they were a non-exclusive reseller of VE in Brazil."

And they understand that they have no responsability in Vision Engineering authorized non-exclusive resellers. They said:

This is just bs double speak from Vision Engineering, the company you bought from are authorised resellers. So is becomes Vision Engineering problem, as it effects their reputation.

[Mechatrommer]

Maybe the packaging got subjected to changing temperatures while it was originally sent to you. This maybe caused water/damp to occur, inside the package. Which could have made some mold and stuff, I guess.

fungus dont grow and infest overnight, it will take months.. as OP metioned, the unit is a display. i suspect its not a display, it was stored in a dark and humid room. 2 gold ingredients for fungus nurturing.

[Psi]

Sounds like the person you got it from is a lost cause unless you take them to court.

If it was me i'd take the whole thing apart and clean it out. (Try to avoid any optical alignment screws and mark things so you can reassemble exactly)
Then kindly ask the person at vision engineering who you are dealing with if they could sell you "damaged part X" at cost price.

It's likely an quite easy thing for them to do that, as opposed to just giving you a brand new unit at no charge. Given that its not there problem.

[mrpackethead]

Now I received an answer from Vision Engineering UK that says something like: "We understand your reasons but you purchased from a Vision's representative, not from Vision Engineering itself. So sorry, we can't do nothing to you."

What part of representative don't they understand?
This is corporate suicide on the part of Vision Engineering 

They should be applying appropriate pressure on these guys at a minimum!

[oldway]

Maybe the packaging got subjected to changing temperatures while it was originally sent to you. This maybe caused water/damp to occur, inside the package. Which could have made some mold and stuff, I guess.

fungus dont grow and infest overnight, it will take months.. as OP metioned, the unit is a display. i suspect its not a display, it was stored in a dark and humid room. 2 gold ingredients for fungus nurturing.

You forget a third gold ingredient: some organic compound.
They don't grow on clean mineral material.
Somebody said they grew on the lens coating....This seems impossible because lens coatings are pure minerals.
There are fungus to such a great extension that it is obvious that those lens have been contaminated by a lot of organic dirt.
This can't happen simply by storing it in a dark and humid room, it has been used in a highly contaminated environment.