Author Topic: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes  (Read 348028 times)

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #250 on: December 20, 2018, 08:17:23 pm »
They'll be dual differential output (LVDS or ECL) comparators. Shouldn't be too hard to find

ADCMP567 a possibility? 2 channel, right number of pins.
ADCMP567 has 32 pins , x-ray shows 24
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Offline TopLoser

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #251 on: December 20, 2018, 08:19:37 pm »
They'll be dual differential output (LVDS or ECL) comparators. Shouldn't be too hard to find

ADCMP567 a possibility? 2 channel, right number of pins.
ADCMP567 has 32 pins , x-ray shows 24

I Can't count, sorry.

Closer xray attached. I can get closer and tweak settings if it help.
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 08:21:32 pm by TopLoser »
 
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #252 on: December 20, 2018, 08:24:59 pm »
As there's no processor or eeprom in there, the functionality is likely to me enabled by a pullup or pulldown on the connector - shouldn't be hard to find with some poking around with a 100R resistor to avoid smoke.
Power outs should be easy to find.
If you get the digital menus working, you can then tweak thresholds and see which pin(s) set this.

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #253 on: December 20, 2018, 08:28:25 pm »
They'll be dual differential output (LVDS or ECL) comparators. Shouldn't be too hard to find

ADCMP567 a possibility? 2 channel, right number of pins.
ADCMP567 has 32 pins , x-ray shows 24

I Can't count, sorry.

Closer xray attached. I can get closer and tweak settings if it help.
All the pinouts I can see are consistent with LMH7322
« Last Edit: December 20, 2018, 08:38:23 pm by mikeselectricstuff »
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Offline TopLoser

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #254 on: December 20, 2018, 08:29:29 pm »
Functionality is enabled in the scope even without it plugged in, just hit the LA button and you get all the options available.

Looks like it's an easy enough design to knock together for cheap then, if anybody can be arsed.

I'll have another look at what's holding the case together, it's not responded to force so far.
 

Offline joeyjoejoe

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #255 on: December 20, 2018, 10:41:17 pm »
Is it simple enough to DIY the logic analyzer header? A few hundred bucks from RIGOL otherwise!  :o
 

Offline tinhead

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #256 on: December 20, 2018, 11:03:27 pm »
The Christmas gift for all Rigol fans out here:
...
PS: And it's not an hack. It's a feature!

great, i have read this thread a bit, but oversaw your post, and ordered day later SDS1204X-E instead of Rigol (due to 4 vs 2 channels).
Anyway, will do it as eastern gift ^^
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Offline Fungus

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #257 on: December 21, 2018, 11:16:16 am »
Anybody fancy guessing what these 8 (identical I assume) IC's might be? Or do I have to get all medieval on it, no screws or clips unfortunately...

Normally they're comparators with selectable references for all the different voltages in the menu:


 

Offline brainstorm

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #258 on: December 21, 2018, 11:18:19 am »
I concur with mikelectricstuff about the https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/lmh7322.pdf, good catch!... not entirely sure on the shorted latch pins though (LEA, (not LEA) and VCCOA) since not all QFN footprints have the 3 "shorted" legs on the same pins, perhaps some of the parts have different orientations on the board? Other intended functions or just routed differently on the PCB?

I also wonder if TopLoser could get some of the values of the passives by probing the pins of the probe and get some cap/resistance values out of it so that we can compare it with the typical applications on the aforementioned datasheet?
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 11:41:04 am by brainstorm »
 

Offline brainstorm

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #259 on: December 21, 2018, 11:20:16 am »
For the people wondering about the MSO5072 being "upgradeable" to 4ch via the magic flag... all that needs to be said is: yep ;)
 
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Offline madmac

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #260 on: December 21, 2018, 11:52:52 am »
Had a quick look at the 50 way logic connector while having coffee

0V     X    X    D7P
D7N   X    X    D6P
D6N   X    X    D15P
D15N  X    X    D14P
D14N  X    X    D0V

0V     X    X    D5P
D5N   X    X    D4P
D4N   X    X    D13P
D13N  X    X    D12P
D12N  X    X    0V

0V     X    X    D3P
D3N   X    X    D2P
D2N   X    X    D11P
D11N  X    X    D10P
D10N  X    X    0V

0V     X    X    D1P
D1N   X    X    D0P
D0N   X    X    D9P
D9N   X    X    D8P
D8N   X    X    0V

4V0    X    X    0V
4V0    X    X    2V4
D0-7V X    X    D8-15 VREF   10:1 INPUT  +/- 1V5
-2V5   X    X    0V
0V     X    X    DETECT  LOW FOR PROBE ATTACHED


Input range is +/- 15 volts.
 
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Offline madmac

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #261 on: December 21, 2018, 11:54:47 am »
Should have added top of table is power on off side   and  lower pin  X   X  upper pin
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #262 on: December 21, 2018, 11:57:01 am »
Had a quick look at the 50 way logic connector while having coffee

...
D0-7V X    X    D8-15 VREF   10:1 INPUT  +/- 1V5
...


If the reference voltages com from the 'scope then that makes it a lot easier.
 
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Offline joeyjoejoe

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #263 on: December 21, 2018, 05:41:13 pm »
For the people wondering about the MSO5072 being "upgradeable" to 4ch via the magic flag... all that needs to be said is: yep ;)

Started to see the 4 chan out of stock in Canada, I suspect the 2 channel will follow suit now.

Genius marketing move. I'm not even in the market for a scope and I'm considering one...
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #264 on: December 21, 2018, 06:13:12 pm »
Anybody who thinks the hackers are getting something for free has it all ass-backwards.

The hackers are paying the regular price, it's all the businesses and educational institutions that are paying extra.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #265 on: December 21, 2018, 06:43:44 pm »
Quote from: Fungus link=topic=154682.msg2058286#msg2058286
The hackers are paying the regular price, it's all the businesses and educational institutions that are paying extra.

I"m not so sure. Let's wait until the real hacking begins.
 

Offline Fungus

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #266 on: December 21, 2018, 07:08:37 pm »
Quote from: Fungus link=topic=154682.msg2058286#msg2058286
The hackers are paying the regular price, it's all the businesses and educational institutions that are paying extra.

I"m not so sure. Let's wait until the real hacking begins.

OK, maybe not all:popcorn:
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #267 on: December 21, 2018, 07:36:54 pm »
The hackers are paying the regular price, it's all the businesses and educational institutions that are paying extra.
I'm pretty sure sane businesses and educational institutes are going to wait until the hobbyists bought enough units so Rigol finishes the firmware. It also depends on whether Rigol blocks the extremely simple workaround (it isn't even a hack) to enable all features in a future firmware update.
« Last Edit: December 21, 2018, 07:38:25 pm by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline joeyjoejoe

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #268 on: December 21, 2018, 07:48:38 pm »
I feel like removing the firmware hack would tank potential hobbyist sales? This might not be much, but again, in a world where hobbyists aren't buying the high end features, and institutions are, it's just icing on the cake to attract that market.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #269 on: December 21, 2018, 07:55:18 pm »
I feel like removing the firmware hack would tank potential hobbyist sales? This might not be much, but again, in a world where hobbyists aren't buying the high end features, and institutions are, it's just icing on the cake to attract that market.
When I read the posts in the test equipment section I get the feeling there are quite a few hobbyists out there which spend several $k on a single piece test equipment. This market isn't big but it does seem to exist.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline tv84

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #270 on: December 21, 2018, 07:59:18 pm »
Simply removing the feature is not a show stopper. We now know it can be done.  :popcorn:

What I would like to know is: how similar is the HW in the 5000 and 7000 models? Can someone please elaborate?
 

Online BravoV

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #271 on: December 21, 2018, 08:12:54 pm »
I guess Rigol and it's big distributors are watching the market, observing and going to conclude whether next move will be to lock or keep it open.

For sure they will at least get the free marketing and gathered accurately on the market reaction on this price level.

Offline Fungus

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #272 on: December 22, 2018, 04:59:25 pm »
I guess Rigol and it's big distributors are watching the market, observing and going to conclude whether next move will be to lock or keep it open.

They've had ten years to make that decision before launching this one.

I'm guessing DS1054Z sales already showed the economics work just fine.
 

Offline Martin72

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #273 on: December 22, 2018, 11:03:41 pm »
I am between two chairs…

Buying the option bundle which costs about 700€ incl. tax don´t worry me.
The memory upgrade.... I´m not interested in - 100M standard is more than enough.
But the bandwith upgrades..
The price killing me as an owner of a 5074.
Buying the options but hacking the bandwith, this is in my mind, weird… ;)

Offline TopLoser

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Re: Hacking the Rigol MSO5000 series oscilloscopes
« Reply #274 on: December 22, 2018, 11:10:37 pm »
Maybe an ‘extended trial’ would be an acceptable option for you  ;)

Bear in mind that Rigol will offer a ‘free option bundle’ for these scopes at some time in the future. That would make you pretty upset if you paid for the bundle already...
« Last Edit: December 22, 2018, 11:15:27 pm by TopLoser »
 


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