NEW Next Gen 2 Series Tektronix Oscilloscope

[jacklee]

I would rather prefer these two scopes 





from: https://www.micsig.com/Roadmap/

[EEVblog]

FWIW I think this is actually competing with the Keysight 2000 series, in the same way that the 2000 series once competed with the Tek TDS. There are university labs absolutely full of Keysight 2000 series scopes, but they aren't going anywhere (despite their age) while the competitor scopes don't really bring any new value to the table. Honestly, for someone teaching people how to measure blips with an oscilloscope, this product doesn't really offer more than the 2000 series does, and I think it would be a waste of money to change a whole lab over. Having a built in ~10MHz AWG and 4 channels hasn't been innovative for at least a decade (maybe more). And I'm not seeing any free decoders or a radically reduced cost which I think really would make a difference. Or any other innovative ideas like, for example, real on-board scripting to write your own decoders/measurements/tests.

I do think they missed an opportunity here to do something with pricing. But once again, it would probably erode the 3 series market.
Or at the very least do what R&S did on the release of the RTB2000, they sold the first 500 or whatever it was at practically half price fully loaded, just to get the market buzzing and units in the hands of people who would talk it up. And it worked, huge numbers of forum users alone snapped one up.

[Fungus]

I would rather prefer these two scopes 

Where can I buy them in the USA? What support contract will Micsig give me? I need next-day repairs.

Those are for a very different market segment than the Tek scopes being discussed here.

[tautech]

I would rather prefer these two scopes 

Only the STO2000C can compare with this new Tek although sampling and BW are less in Micsig.

[Fungus]

I would rather prefer these two scopes 

Only the STO2000C can compare with this new Tek although sampling and BW are less in Micsig.

They just announced a new one with 500MHz bandwidth and 3GSa/s: https://www.micsig.com.cn/ETO/

(plus a 13.3", 1920*1080 screen, a lot more memory than this Tek, and battery is built-in)

[Fungus]

Some serious bullshit regarding the included software:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PcxEO3fA_Ls&t=2507s

"Not everybody needs serial decode, so why build that into the cost pricing of the product?"

Uhuh.

[Zucca]

One major reason people will buy this is because of the long product lifecycle guarantee generally of Tek stuff. You can buy the same scope for literally years.

that's also Lada strategy.

[tv84]

Contrary to what happened with Series 3/4/5/6, this one is holding strong in forum exchanges, after release date.

I appreciate and like the effort Tek did in this one and its format. It may very well be a thing we'll see more often in other A and B brands.

Let's give it more time.

The pricing model will have to adjust itself or it will promote the usual "accidental DIY adjustments".

[Fungus]

that's also Lada strategy.

Ask any motor mechanic which strategy they prefer. 

[Someone]

Just seen this today.
MSO242-BW-500 4 Analog Channels, 2.5GS/s sample rate, 10Mpts record length 500MHz Bandwidth (It's unclear if Logic analyzer is included or not) €9760
MSOX3054T MSO / MDO Oscilloscope, InfiniiVision 3000T X, 4+16 Channel, 500 MHz, 5 GSPS, 4 Mpts, 700 ps € 13160
Seems to be competitively priced. Though it comes with 1 year warranty 

A noticable/sizable jump in price between those two, the comparison in Keysight 3000 would probably be their recently released DSOX3054G ($14,000 vs comparable tek with licenses and probes $15,000). Closer would be Lecroy T3DSO3000 (Siglent) or 3000z. Like the Tek 2, the Lecroy 3000z is their lowest/cheapest model with their "full" UI, but retains active probe interface. A big step up over the Tek 2 in scope features/performance/options. Very few of these scope segments/tiers directly compare/overlap.

I compare it to the MSOX3054 because that's my benchmark for a scope with features that I most engineers need. I also don't consider buying an Asian brand for work, because nobody got fired for buying IBM.
Are you saying that would make more sense to compare it to the 2000 series Keysight?

why compare backwards to superseded models? What reason to choose 2000A/3000A/3000T instead of 3000G/1x00a/1x00G ? 3000G is same price as 3000T but more features unlocked/included.

[bdunham7]

Automatic. Anywhere from hundreds of points to 250k.
When I manually force it to 1000pts at the slower timebases then I get the maximum 18k/sec update.

OK, and in automatic is the record length set to the max sample rate and exactly the length of the screen?  I calculated 250K points to be exactly that for 10us/div, 10 division, 2.5GSa/s.  How does 'zoom out' work in that case?

[free_electron]

One major reason people will buy this is because of the long product lifecycle guarantee generally of Tek stuff.

The guarantee that if anything breaks the repair will costs as much as a new equipment.

well... there is only one thing you can replace ( electronically).. except the display and that membrane crap.

[Kosmic]

I must be the odd one I kind of like the new design. The VESA mount is a good idea I could see myself mounting it on a adjustable arm over the bench. The membrane buttons are a bit of a turn off though.

[Grandchuck]

Kosmic, I also like it!

[pdenisowski]

Speaking of VESA mounts:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rtb2004-vesa-mod/

[Fungus]

that membrane crap.

According to the discussion: That "membrane crap" is there to keep finger-dirt out when it's used in dirty environments and so that people can sterilize the keypad easily with anti-COVID wipes.

(this was designed during COVID times and we're not the target demographic)

[goaty]

...their competition being the RTB2000, which can do 300k...

I wished it could do that, but it can´t:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-killer-scope-a-true-game-changer-from-rs-rtb2002-rtb2004/msg1405398/#msg1405398

[free_electron]

that membrane crap.

According to the discussion: That "membrane crap" is there to keep finger-dirt out when it's used in dirty environments and so that people can sterilize the keypad easily with anti-COVID wipes.

(this was designed during COVID times and we're not the target demographic)

it is still crap to me. i want tactile feedback ! Membrane could work if they put in a haptic driver . then again. membrane i so outdated. you have a touch screen. They should have made it capsense !
My gripes with membrane
- no tactile feedback
- membranes invariably fail. the patterning oxidizes, shorts out or opens.
- the top foil hardens and cracks / splits/peels over time. go take a look at your average membrane keyboard used in fuel pumps.
- they are glued on from the outside which makes them VERY hard to replace.
- if they are used with tactiles underneath the plunger of the actual button starts making indentations in the membrane . splitting / peeling unsightlyness.
- domed tactiles are even more prone to cracks with the dome falling off
- Once the membrane integrity is damaged moisture gets in with disaster results.

use a membrane foil with a rubber key overlay. those rubber mats are easily replaceable. i don't care about covid wipedowns. it's my scope on my bench in my lab. nobody else fingerpokes it

if this is targeted as a handheld , drag into the field. i could live with it. but then they show a fancy bench stand and tout vesa mounting. what is it ? what are we targeting ? handheld , or wall mount ?


another thing that irks me is that there is no tekprobe interface. can't use any active diff or active probe... that's a bit of a bummer. all that is needed is the contact foil and some regulators and an i2c bus.

[Black Phoenix]

that membrane crap.

According to the discussion: That "membrane crap" is there to keep finger-dirt out when it's used in dirty environments and so that people can sterilize the keypad easily with anti-COVID wipes.

(this was designed during COVID times and we're not the target demographic)

it is still crap to me. i want tactile feedback ! Membrane could work if they put in a haptic driver . then again. membrane i so outdated. you have a touch screen. They should have made it capsense !
My gripes with membrane
- no tactile feedback
- membranes invariably fail. the patterning oxidizes, shorts out or opens.
- the top foil hardens and cracks / splits/peels over time. go take a look at your average membrane keyboard used in fuel pumps.
- they are glued on from the outside which makes them VERY hard to replace.
- if they are used with tactiles underneath the plunger of the actual button starts making indentations in the membrane . splitting / peeling unsightlyness.
- domed tactiles are even more prone to cracks with the dome falling off
- Once the membrane integrity is damaged moisture gets in with disaster results.

use a membrane foil with a rubber key overlay. those rubber mats are easily replaceable. i don't care about covid wipedowns. it's my scope on my bench in my lab. nobody else fingerpokes it

if this is targeted as a handheld , drag into the field. i could live with it. but then they show a fancy bench stand and tout vesa mounting. what is it ? what are we targeting ? handheld , or wall mount ?


another thing that irks me is that there is no tekprobe interface. can't use any active diff or active probe... that's a bit of a bummer. all that is needed is the contact foil and some regulators and an i2c bus.

We are not the target demographic for this product. Simple as that.

[bd139]

Let us not forget the main demographic of this thread:

1. Not the target market
2. Have no professional use for it
3. Can’t afford it anyway
4. Dislike it.

This is most threads on the internet about anything that costs more than $50.

Sometimes I’m tempted to buy products and enjoy them just to piss off the haters.

[Fungus]

it is still crap to me

Would you buy one of these with your own money if they put proper buttons on it?

If not, why complain?

[Black Phoenix]

This is most threads on the internet about anything that costs more than $50.

$50? Say $25 and I agree with you.

Now enough pissing off/sarcasm (both my comments on this thread were exactly that) I would see myself, if I had the money for it, to buy this Tek.

I really liked what they achieve here and I'm totally sure this one does a lot more than what I'm able to need.

Even if it doesn't sell that well, at least it gives something for other manufacturers to think about.

And that is always good in my book.

[Fungus]

My gripes with membrane
- no tactile feedback
- membranes invariably fail. the patterning oxidizes, shorts out or opens.
- the top foil hardens and cracks / splits/peels over time. go take a look at your average membrane keyboard used in fuel pumps.

I remember googling something like "tactile membrane keypad million cycle" earlier in the thread and getting plenty of hits. 

[rvalente]

There is another major problem with membrane keypads, fingernails, specially with longnails.
Its pretty common for these people to press the buttons with the fingernail not with the finger itself. The nail would cut the membrane film (usually polycarbonate)

[tszaboo]

Just seen this today.
MSO242-BW-500 4 Analog Channels, 2.5GS/s sample rate, 10Mpts record length 500MHz Bandwidth (It's unclear if Logic analyzer is included or not) €9760
MSOX3054T MSO / MDO Oscilloscope, InfiniiVision 3000T X, 4+16 Channel, 500 MHz, 5 GSPS, 4 Mpts, 700 ps € 13160
Seems to be competitively priced. Though it comes with 1 year warranty 

A noticable/sizable jump in price between those two, the comparison in Keysight 3000 would probably be their recently released DSOX3054G ($14,000 vs comparable tek with licenses and probes $15,000). Closer would be Lecroy T3DSO3000 (Siglent) or 3000z. Like the Tek 2, the Lecroy 3000z is their lowest/cheapest model with their "full" UI, but retains active probe interface. A big step up over the Tek 2 in scope features/performance/options. Very few of these scope segments/tiers directly compare/overlap.

I compare it to the MSOX3054 because that's my benchmark for a scope with features that I most engineers need. I also don't consider buying an Asian brand for work, because nobody got fired for buying IBM.
Are you saying that would make more sense to compare it to the 2000 series Keysight?

why compare backwards to superseded models? What reason to choose 2000A/3000A/3000T instead of 3000G/1x00a/1x00G ? 3000G is same price as 3000T but more features unlocked/included.

It really doesn't matter though, because as you said it, it is the same price.
Let me know if you just have a temper tantrum, or you are just here to pick a fight with anyone over a minor detail.