New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[Howardlong]

Hi there

Could someone have a look on this short movie I recorded and tell me if my Rigol has an issue or is it only my lack of knowledge?


My trigger source is set to CH2 somewhere around middle point and this is simple PWM from Arduino. CH1 is mosfet output. Everything is good until I enable CH3 (connected to square test output) or CH4 (not connected). Triggering get lost until I shift its level higher (even above actual source signal).
This looks for me like an issue but correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks

Not sure what I'm doing different. I tried a similar thing (I don't have your PWM stuff, but I did an FM'd square wave instead around 500Hz which looks like your frequency) and similar settings. 5V/div (10x), 500us/div. I couldn't reproduce your problem.

http://youtu.be/lTA_6aCkAao

[Marooned]

Seems like you have not set a proper trigger (trigger is far too low)

You can see on the video that trigger is more or less in the middle (2,70V for logic 5V signal)

Not sure what I'm doing different. I tried a similar thing [...] I couldn't reproduce your problem.

Unfortunately, I had already different settings on my bench but I've recreated it and I think I have all the same (board and dso settings) and.. huh, I'm no longer able to recreate the issue. That is quite strange and pity I didn't debug it more when I had a chance.

Well, maybe posting to EEV adds +10 to electronics skills and I just got level up
Thanks for your input.

[cutemonster]

I guess I'm late to the party?  Just ordered one from teequipment and it's backordered.  I hope it's still hackable by then.

[JohnnyBerg]

Mine is coming today. Finally!

I will not hack it (for now). Just play with it and compare it's performance to my other stuff.

[Dinsdale]

I've had my scope for a while now. What I need now is a 'scope "cozy". Does someone have a grandmother who wants to do a kickstarter? You know, a nice embroidered, quilted cover with the RIGOL name on it. And a flap over the probe connectors so you can leave your probes connected if you want. Maybe a great-grandmother is required to find the necessary talent.

[Mark]

I've had my scope for a while now. What I need now is a 'scope "cozy". Does someone have a grandmother who wants to do a kickstarter? You know, a nice embroidered, quilted cover with the RIGOL name on it. And a flap over the probe connectors so you can leave your probes connected if you want. Maybe a great-grandmother is required to find the necessary talent.

Here's one my grandmother would make if she had the time... 
http://www.tequipment.net/Rigol/CARRY-BAG/Cases/

[max_torque]

Hi there

Could someone have a look on this short movie I recorded and tell me if my Rigol has an issue or is it only my lack of knowledge?


My trigger source is set to CH2 somewhere around middle point and this is simple PWM from Arduino. CH1 is mosfet output. Everything is good until I enable CH3 (connected to square test output) or CH4 (not connected). Triggering get lost until I shift its level higher (even above actual source signal).
This looks for me like an issue but correct me if I'm wrong.

Thanks

There's definitively something odd with the triggering on my 74Z when using multiple channels.  On a few occasions now i've set my scope up with one or two channels enabled, set the tigger, often for signals that come in "pulses" (ie not continuously triggering) and that triggering is lost when either of the other channels are switched on (3 or 4).  Definitely a bug imo.  Haven't got the time right now to figure it out / investigate more unfortunately.......

[FRob]

Can anybody confirm the trigger behavior for me? I semi-recently upgraded my DS1054Z to FW version 00.04.02.SP4 and took some measurements. I began to notice the following behavior:

Trigger in AUTO mode (DC coupled) will trigger for intermittent signals ("T'D" in upper left corner), but the waveform will not actually stay on-screen at all. At work I use Textronics, and in Auto-Mode, non-continuous signals will stay on-screen for some seconds. I think this time is configurable on Textronics, is this time configurable on DS1054Z?

Ex.: I'm watching a 200us signal on 50us timescale. I tried to compensate by setting hold-off to a large value, e.g. 1s. However, this only results in the waveform standing still for one second while the 200us signal that triggered it is already off-screen. Is this the intended behavior? At work I use AUTO mode all the time, yet on DS1054Z it kind of becomes useless for random probing, because it's easy to miss a trigger event when nothing on-screen changes.

EDIT: Forgot to mention: I didn't take many measurements before upgrading to the new FW, so I'm not sure it's related.

[Teneyes]

Trigger in AUTO mode (
Ex.: I'm watching a 200us signal on 50us timescale. I tried to compensate by setting hold-off to a large value, e.g. 1s. However, this only results in the waveform standing still for one second while the 200us signal that triggered it is already off-screen. Is this the intended behavior? At work I use AUTO mode all the time, yet on DS1054Z it kind of becomes useless for random probing, because it's easy to miss a trigger event when nothing on-

From the User's guide:
"Note: When the horizontal time base is set to 50 ms/div or greater, this Auto trigger mode allows the absence of trigger signal."

Maybe try Normal trigger mode for intermittent pulses

[maj]

Finally cracked - now to wait impatiently till the end of April!

[blackbird]

As of yesterday, I'm also a proud owner of this (Quoting Dave) "Best bang for bucks" DSO.

[Datman]

Hi, Blackbird
Can you tell us something about the noise on the trace?

[dadler]

I've had my scope for a while now. What I need now is a 'scope "cozy". Does someone have a grandmother who wants to do a kickstarter? You know, a nice embroidered, quilted cover with the RIGOL name on it. And a flap over the probe connectors so you can leave your probes connected if you want. Maybe a great-grandmother is required to find the necessary talent.

These people make nice custom covers, I last got one for my Akai MPK-249 (midi controller):

http://www.digitaldeckcovers.com/

You can just give them dimensions. I think I'll order one and see how it works out. I've almost poked the screen several times with a hot soldering iron (maybe I should be more careful?  )

[blackbird]

Can you tell us something about the noise on the trace?

As I'm a real novice on the scope, I'll first find my way through all the bells and whistles. Maybe you could help me out so I can give you a sensible answer 

[Datman]

You can understand what I'm talking about seeing the screenshots I posted in this topic a few days ago

[JohnnyBerg]

Can you tell us something about the noise on the trace?

You mean this: ?

[Fungus]

Can you tell us something about the noise on the trace?

You mean this: ?

[JohnnyBerg]

The 1054Z performing really well with 300 µV noise on 1 mV/div. Better then the analog scopes I own.

This is something I could not do on my other scopes,  is measure the noise of my new "low cost" voltage reference.

Notice that the scale is 3 µV/div !! (there is a 10.000x preamp in front of the scope)

[blackbird]

You can understand what I'm talking about seeing the screenshots I posted in this topic a few days ago

I do now . I was thinking to difficult...

[JohnnyBerg]

After watching the video I think @Fungus is referring to the noise in the trace as Dave is explaining in the video. For me, that is not a problem, I am more concerned about the noise in the most sensitive setting.

[tautech]

Hi, Blackbird
Can you tell us something about the noise on the trace?

http://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/10/eevblog-601-why-digital-oscilloscopes-appear-noisy/
http://www.eevblog.com/2014/04/27/eevblog-610-why-digital-scopes-appear-noisy-part-2/

Other than your connection methods, Dave's videos explains ALL you need to know. 

[blackbird]

Ok, I will take a closer look at those videos.  Hopefully I can come back with more useful information

[Datman]

I'm not worried about noise at high sensitivity, because it would happen only when I measure very low signals. In these cases I could make a low noise preamp. The problem is that I see the noise every time I use the scope, also measuring a 10Vpp signal!
Please note that a 1/5 division noise is 1/50 scale: 1/50 of 256 (8bit) is about 5/256. 1 LSB (Least Significant Bit) is 1/256; the 2nd LSB is 2/256; the 3rd is 4/256, then noise affects fully the first 2 of 8 bits and sometimes the 3rd!

[g8bnr]

Hi Folks,
I have just recently received my DS1054Z, which I am most pleased with, and the dealer, Telonic, were excellent.

I have been experimenting with the Riglol 'keygen' codes. My unit has the following fitted:-

Software Version        00.04.02 SP4
Board Version             0.1.1

The 'keygen' code DSFR did not work, it came up with an invalid code message!
However, the 'keygen' code DSER worked first time. The only difference between these codes, as far as I can discover, is that DSFR is supposed to activate all options including 500uV/div. The DSER code enables all that DSFR is supposed to do except for the 500u/div option.

Maybe Rigol have removed the 'buggy' 500uV/div option from the latest software/board issue!

Hope that this information is useful to EEVBLOG Forum readers.

73 Dick

[ebastler]

The problem is that I see the noise every time I use the scope, also measuring a 10Vpp signal!
Please note that a 1/5 division noise is 1/50 scale: 1/50 of 256 (8bit) is about 5/256. 1 LSB (Least Significant Bit) is 1/256; the 2nd LSB is 2/256; the 3rd is 4/256, then noise affects fully the first 2 of 8 bits and sometimes the 3rd!

Hi Datman,

In the measurements you had posted here https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/new-rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope/msg620902/#msg620902, the noise did not look as bad as what you mention now. For example, in the 6th screenshot in that post (500 mV/div), the noise-free, steady yellow line is two pixels wide. Full range is 400 pixels on the screen -- Rigol probably rounds up the line width to 400/256 ~ 2 pixels. The pink and dark blue channel alternate between two levels, which are 2 pixels and presumably 1 LSB apart. Only the light blue (cyan?) channel shows rare excursions to a third level, which is probably 2 LSBs away -- or you could argue it is +-1 LSB from the average.

I would more or less expect to find noise patterns as seen for the pink and dark blue channels, if the input voltage sits just between two ADC input levels. (Although for the special case of 0V input, Rigol could probably do better by getting the auto-calibration right, so that 0V sits smack-dab on the 0x00 output of the ADC... But that would just make it look better cosmetically; for real-world DC signals you would still get the same alternating levels, depending on the actual voltage input.) Hence, that does not concern me at all. The cyan channel might be slightly fishy, but nothing I personally would worry about.

Regards,
Juergen