New Rigol DS1054Z oscilloscope

[bd139]

I had a couple of spontaneous reboots when I had a DS1054Z so perhaps it’s semi normal crashing (crappy software triggering the WDT). If it’s doing it constantly though I’d be suspicious.

[TurboTom]

Considering the DS1000Z contians the same application processor (Freescale IMX283) as the DP800 series of PSUs (which is notorious for rebooting unexpectedly), maybe the reason is identical as well. So it may be worth reading on @T2's findings and his suggested cure for the problem. Just an educated guess on my behalf, though. My DS1000Z never crashed without interaction, and even with me fiddling with the knobs, it only did so with rather early F/W revisions  .

[Fungus]

I had a couple of spontaneous reboots when I had a DS1054Z so perhaps it’s semi normal crashing (crappy software triggering the WDT). If it’s doing it constantly though I’d be suspicious.

Weird that nobody else's DS1054Z is rebooting from that exact same software, don't you think?

[bd139]

I had a couple of spontaneous reboots when I had a DS1054Z so perhaps it’s semi normal crashing (crappy software triggering the WDT). If it’s doing it constantly though I’d be suspicious.

Weird that nobody else's DS1054Z is rebooting from that exact same software, don't you think?

That's a pretty poor statement to make really and a terrible terrible thing I hear a lot of the time from engineers. "it's only you who has the problem". At the same time, they're saying that to 100 people or aren't communicating between their account managers or support personnel properly.

If you consider the following which is usually the case from the last 20 odd years working on software and embedded systems...

1. Lets propose 100% of devices crash occasionally.
2. 10% of people report that, which is a realistic figure.
3. 10% of those people actually bother to respond to the ticket they opened.
4. 10% of those people actually help the manufacturer through debugging.

Say you sell 10,000 scopes, it looks like 0.1% of your userbase is crashing to the engineers. Most people say "fuck it" and power cycle it.

If you have a problem with 20% of your product base crashing, then that rounds down to very little data other than usually one pissed off and fuming customer who will tear you a new asshole the moment you say "weird that nobody else's DS1054Z is rebooting from that exact same software, don't you think?

Incidentally my DS1054Z issue was resolved by updating it in the end so clearly they managed to finally get that info together...

[ebastler]

1. Lets propose 100% of devices crash occasionally.
2. 10% of people report that, which is a realistic figure.

This thread alone has 4500 posts. How many of them report on spontaneous crashes of the DS1000Z?

[bd139]

1. Lets propose 100% of devices crash occasionally.
2. 10% of people report that, which is a realistic figure.

This thread alone has 4500 posts. How many of them report on spontaneous crashes of the DS1000Z?

This thread isn't the only place on the internet...

https://www.jackenhack.com/rigol-ds1054z-oscilloscope-hangs-boot/

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1054z-freeze-up-bug/

etc etc. And let's not forget the bugs thread:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/rigol-ds1000z-series-(ds1054z-ds1074z-ds1104z-and-s-models)-bugswish-list/

[Fungus]

If you have a problem with 20% of your product base crashing, then that rounds down to very little data other than usually one pissed off and fuming customer who will tear you a new asshole the moment you say "weird that nobody else's DS1054Z is rebooting from that exact same software, don't you think?

I didn't say that to him, I told him to check the power rails.

I said that to you, because you're trying to imply that constant rebooting is normal in DS1054Zs. It isn't.

This is a 'scope that's suffered serious physical abuse. Let's start with that, shall we?

[bd139]

I’m merely stating that it may not be abnormal as it is portrayed and that it needs to be considered as a separate issue unless a causal relationship is found. There’s a distinct difference between causality and correlation and that is the difference between those who successfully debug something and think they have successfully debugged it. There are a lot more people in the latter category.

And yes I know you were replying to me and no I disagree about the rebooting situation having experienced it myself.

[De_Os]

Hello dears.
Please forgive me for my English, let me ask you one question.
There is RIGOL DS1054Z with the latest firmware 00.04.04.SP4 (00.04.04.04.03), unlocked to DS1104Z (hacked only the bandwidth of 100 MHz, the other options were already unlocked by the vendor).
The question - is it normal for this device that only channel #1 (yellow) is a full-fledged channel with a declared sampling rate of 1 GSa/s and a maximum memory of 24 M, and each of channels #2, #3 and #4 are trimmed to 500 MSa/s and 12 M?
(Of course, when using any 2 channels at the same time - 500 MSa/s and 12 M, when using 3 or 4 of any channels at the same time - 250 MSa/s and 6 M. Everything is as stated in the characteristics).
That is, when working in single-channel mode, channels #2, #3 and #4 will not be able to fully replace channel #1. In the characteristics of the device, this was tactfully kept silent.
What is this - a feature of this model or a marriage of my particular copy?
Thank you.

[TurboTom]

If you still trigger the scope on CH1, this channel has to be active in the background and thus reduces the bandwidth of the other channels, even if it's apparently disabled.

Set trigger source to CH2 and disable all other channels, then CH2 will run at 1GSa/s and has the full memory available.


...and by the way: Welcome to the forum! 

[De_Os]

Ha-ha, the problem turns out to be my ignorance! 
Oh, if all the problems in life would be solved just as simply...
Thank you Turbotom, I fell in love with my DS1054Z again! 

[Adrian_Arg.]

I also have a rigol ds1054z, I advise you not to fall in love with the 24 mbits of memory depth, since it has some errors when changing the time scale, rigol never solved that error, when I sent an email with images of that error to me They answered that the last patch solved it, which is not the case.

in spanish
Yo tambien poseo un rigol ds1054z, te aconsejo que no te enamores de los 24 mbits de profundidad de memoria, ya que posee unos errores al cambiar la escala de tiempo, rigol nunca soluciono ese error, cuando envie un mail con imagenes de ese error me contestaron que lo solucinaba el ultimo parche, lo que no es asi.

[idolclub]

New DS1054Z firmware v00.04.05.01.00 ~ 2021/06/30

Only available in Rigol China website.

[Adrian_Arg.]

ok, I'm going to download it and test it, has anyone tried it?

[RoGeorge]

From the changes log, with Google translate:

[Support product model] All MSO/DS1000Z series oscilloscopes
【Latest revision time】 2021/06/01


[Contents of this update]
v00.04.05.01.00 2021/06/01
      -Modify the vertical display

[History version description]
v00.04.05.00.00 2020/12/29
      -Add and modify some measurement functions
      -Math problem modification
      -Modify some SCPI command errors
      -Trigger problem fix

v00.04.04.04.03 2019/05/30
      -Solve the problem of waveform display error during playback

v00.04.04.04.02 2019/02/26

      -Update encoder driver

v00.04.04.03.05 2018/04/28

      -Solve LXI-Web login failure
      -The average value of the DC signal is measured incorrectly
      -In some cases, the machine starts abnormally
      -Information display related issues

Mine is now 00.04.04.SP4.

Just curious, anybody knows what exactly was changed about these:
      -Modify the vertical display
      -Add and modify some measurement functions
      -Math problem modification
      -Modify some SCPI command errors
      -Trigger problem fix
?

[RoGeorge]

Did the upgrade, then recalibrate.  The previous version was
00.04.04.SP3, now it's
00.04.05.SP1

Couldn't identify any visible changes in the math or measurement functions.

Still works just like before the upgrade, won't bother trying to downgrade it back, but the traces seems thicker to me, and brighter, much brighter.  It's a sunny summer day outside but still had to dial down the intensity.   

Anybody else seeing thicker and brighter traces with the latest firmware?

[klausES]

Sometimes the traces are wider (then you also have a brighter). Possibly already by a influence of noise.
Either it becomes less or only after a restart, or when the device warms up, or changing the position of the probes (cable).

Are you really only the traces brighter or anything but also a little the writing, the symbols and frames around fields ?

[RoGeorge]

Not sure yet, but I'll look for some older screen captures from former projects, redo the same settings and capture the same waveforms again, to compare the old and new captures on the PC.  Probably not gonna do this today, but if I'll do it sometimes in the weekend, I'll post here the results, either the same or not the same.

So far I've tested the jitter/phase noise (because the change log is mentioning something about "trigger problem fix").
- jitter/phase noise seems about the same, maybe smaller than I measured a couple of years ago 
- I see some strange trace wiggling on the smallest time base and strong clean signal, when I synchronize from the signal generator 

I don't recall seeing that before.  Again, need to find some old screen captures made in similar conditions for a fair comparison.  Not sure if I have any, but the wiggling around the trigger point goes away when the sampling rate goes to 1GSa/s (by disabling all channels except the first)

By wiggling I mean the trace thickens and widens before and after the trigger point, in an X shape.  Need to measure more careful and find some older captures before calling that a bug.  Will add some screen captures later.

I'm not sure if the upgrade was justified for me, because it was working just fine before the upgrade, but now I'm not so sure and need to spend time for extra checking to decide if it's just an illusion or it really is worst than before.   

[Fungus]

the traces seems thicker to me, and brighter, much brighter.  It's a sunny summer day outside but still had to dial down the intensity.   

Anybody else seeing thicker and brighter traces with the latest firmware?

I don't see how. RGB values were already at 100%.

[RoGeorge]

Then what it is for the default 60% value of the Display -> Intensity setting?

[rob040]

v00.04.05.00.00 2020/12/29
      -Add and modify some measurement functions
      -Math problem modification
      -Modify some SCPI command errors
      -Trigger problem fix

Was this version available for download?

I noticed a new Rigol logo (blue) on the DS1054Z in De-Os his post.
Can it be that besides a cosmetic change also the hardware has been changed?

[Miti]

Not sure yet, but I'll look for some older screen captures from former projects, redo the same settings and capture the same waveforms again, to compare the old and new captures on the PC.  Probably not gonna do this today, but if I'll do it sometimes in the weekend, I'll post here the results, either the same or not the same.

So far I've tested the jitter/phase noise (because the change log is mentioning something about "trigger problem fix").
- jitter/phase noise seems about the same, maybe smaller than I measured a couple of years ago 
- I see some strange trace wiggling on the smallest time base and strong clean signal, when I synchronize from the signal generator 

I don't recall seeing that before.  Again, need to find some old screen captures made in similar conditions for a fair comparison.  Not sure if I have any, but the wiggling around the trigger point goes away when the sampling rate goes to 1GSa/s (by disabling all channels except the first)

By wiggling I mean the trace thickens and widens before and after the trigger point, in an X shape.  Need to measure more careful and find some older captures before calling that a bug.  Will add some screen captures later.

I'm not sure if the upgrade was justified for me, because it was working just fine before the upgrade, but now I'm not so sure and need to spend time for extra checking to decide if it's just an illusion or it really is worst than before.   

Hey George,

I can duplicate your tests to compare on the weekend. I have a FeelTech 6600-60M, an IFR2025 and a Wavetek 171 as signal generators. My DS1054 SW Ver. is 04.04.04.03.
I'm very curious if they fixed the waveform corruption when scrolling left and right. They said it was fixed with the SW I mentioned before, but that's a lie.

Miti

[klausES]

...I noticed a new Rigol logo (blue) on the DS1054Z in De-Os his post...

In fact, blue. I did not notice at all.

A change in the hardware is always possible in ongoing production.
At my, there was already a new changed Rotary Encoder Board.
But it only affects the layout and the types of Rotary Encoder itself.

However, I can imagine the Rigol changes absolutely avoid the two firmware would need.

What is irritated by the offered 00.04.05.sp1 on the China site, which is smaller the file size by almost a third.
Cumulative firmware was not known to me in this model so far.

[Adrian_Arg.]

It won't allow me to reinstall an older firmware, is there a way to do it?

[Fungus]

It won't allow me to reinstall an older firmware, is there a way to do it?

No.

(Well, yes, but it's not the answer you want to hear: You need to unpack the old firmware, change the version number to be "newer" than the current, repack it, sign it, cross your fingers... )