Author Topic: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)  (Read 125727 times)

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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #50 on: December 21, 2015, 12:30:03 pm »
Just received the 3014.
Initial impressions :
Software not nearly as bad as I expected - UI has room for improvement but not bad as Chinese SW goes.
A few minor controls are very badly implemented (e.g. trig pulse width & holdoff).
There are key shortcuts for viatal stuff like X & Y scaling, but could do with a lot more.
Screen update speed pretty good but some controls are a little sluggish.
Uses "wrong" Usb connector (A) , and comes with  a "Y" lead in case you need to pull power from 2 ports ( draws approx 880mA)

Will do a video soon but I have a shed to build...
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Offline mikeselectricstuff

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #51 on: December 21, 2015, 10:06:52 pm »
Weather too bad for shed-building so...
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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #52 on: December 22, 2015, 02:39:28 pm »
Nice review Mike  :-+

As you say, it would be nice to have some more keyboard shortcuts (though I wouldn't put it past them to have forgotten to document some). Here are some screen shortcuts, some documented, some not, which you might not have found yet:

As requested, the definitive (ish) list of Owon VDS1022 Software shortcuts....

I haven't included keyboard shortcuts (those are documented in the manual). All of the menu's referred to can be accessed by the large 'home' icon on the right hand side, but some of the shortcuts bring up the relevant one directly.

The numbers tie up to the attached Screenshot:

(1) Clicking on the small arrow directly brings up the measurement cursors menu for time and / or voltage.

(2) Clicking on the small '+' icon (only appears when the mouse pointer is in the measurements area) immediately brings up the measurements selection menu.

(3) Clicking on either of the channel numbers immediately brings up the channel settings menu.

(4) Volts/div selection, Clicking brings up a normal popup+slider However if you just hover the mouse over it instead you can use the scroll wheel to increment/decrement directly, much quicker.

(5) Clicking here toggles between DC / AC / GND for that channel.

Additional, hovering in either of the channel boxes also brings up a small 'x' icon to turn off the channel. Clicking in a greyed out channel box will turn it on again. (couldn't show this and (2) at the same time).

(6) Clicking in the 'T' box brings up a slider for trigger position. It's normally easier just to drag the red trigger position flag at the top of the screen, but the 'T' box click also brings up a useful 'Reset' button to restore to the middle.

(7) Time/div... Similar operation to the V/div. Clicking brings up the pop-up/slider but mouse-over and scroll wheel changes the value directly.

(8 ) Clicking toggles the trigger source between Chan1, Chan2 and Ext (trigger marker on right hand edge of screen changes color to match).

(9) Clicking toggles trigger polarity, works on edge, slope and pulse (icon changes to match trigger type). In Video trigger mode it toggles Odd, Even, Line etc.

(10) Click to alter trigger level - Actually it's far easier and more accurate to drag the trigger marker on the right hand side if the screen, but clicking here also brings up two useful buttons to 'Reset' the trigger level and 'Set to 50%'.

Obviously clicking the Trigger button takes you straight to the Trigger menu.

Some, but not all of the above shortcuts may be documented somewhere, but certainly not all (eg. the scroll wheel ones). Avoiding having to navigate the menu system for most things apart from initial setup speeds thing up quite a lot.

Hope it helps...

EDIT: A few more shortcuts:

- <Space>  brings up (or closes) the last menu selected (like clicking the Menu button)

- When in numeric popups (V/div, T/div, number key will cycle through values for that number. eg. Pressing 2 will cycle 2us 20us, 200us, 2ms etc.

- It will take the first letter of a menu item to select, eg. Trigger mode will take E, S, V, P etc. This seems to happen even after you've shifted focus. Shame it doesn't do the same thing for numerical inputs on the trigger holdoff.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2015, 07:08:00 pm by Gyro »
Chris

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Online blueskull

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #53 on: December 22, 2015, 02:56:09 pm »
3104 looks better than 3102, at least the isolated LAN implementation, and it has a heatsink.

My 3102 gets really hot after plugged in USB, regardless its PC software is running or not.
 

Offline mecanico

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #54 on: January 06, 2016, 10:27:25 pm »
Hi folks,
Didn't know about this scope.
I would like to know if it is better than hantek, even with the aftermarket software?

Greetings
 

Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #55 on: January 07, 2016, 09:11:36 am »
I would like to know if it is better than hantek, even with the aftermarket software?

It all depends on what you want to use it for.  Some things, yes.  Other things, no.  It's not black & white.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #56 on: January 07, 2016, 11:52:57 am »
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.
Chris

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Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #57 on: January 07, 2016, 01:22:36 pm »
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.

No, Chris.  Just grumpy at 4am maybe  :o, when someone can't be bothered to read anything that has been posted here.  After all the effort that has been invested by folks like you, doing all the work to provide it for them.   :palm:


The sad fact is that even the best aftermarket software in the world isn't going to change the fundamental capabilities of the hardware, which have been shown to be dramatically better on the Owon than the Hantek.

OTOH, if what someone needs is a long-duration data streamer, the Owon is simply incapable of that.  So the Hantek wins there, and that's all I use mine for. 

For others, the relatively small increment in price for the Owon may be an insurmountable hurdle, and better to have the Hantek than nothing at all (and benefit from the 3rd party software, generously made available at no cost).  Because that's really the niche that the Hantek fills... better than nothing at all.  (But such folks need to be prepared to pay that price many times over, dealing with the handicaps of actually using the Hantek.)


Is that better?   >:D

 

Offline mecanico

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #58 on: January 07, 2016, 06:25:42 pm »
Hello Mark_O
First of all, I would like to thank you for answer and tell you that I actually read most of the thread. However, since my background aren't eletronics, as you might guess, I didn't understand most of it (maybe I should apologize for that :-// ???
Let me explain you, I'm starting to move with eletronics, and what I want is to be able to control microprocessores and actuators/transducers... That is why I want to buy a USB oscillscope because being it a hobby, I don't wan't to spend a fortune on it. I don't mind spending an extra 20€ or something beyond the hantek value, what I would like to know is if these extra  20€ are worth it...


PS: maybe you should get some sleep  :-+

Greetings
That's a bit of a vague answer for you Mark, you had some issues? Just curious.

No, Chris.  Just grumpy at 4am maybe  :o, when someone can't be bothered to read anything that has been posted here.  After all the effort that has been invested by folks like you, doing all the work to provide it for them.   :palm:


The sad fact is that even the best aftermarket software in the world isn't going to change the fundamental capabilities of the hardware, which have been shown to be dramatically better on the Owon than the Hantek.

OTOH, if what someone needs is a long-duration data streamer, the Owon is simply incapable of that.  So the Hantek wins there, and that's all I use mine for. 

For others, the relatively small increment in price for the Owon may be an insurmountable hurdle, and better to have the Hantek than nothing at all (and benefit from the 3rd party software, generously made available at no cost).  Because that's really the niche that the Hantek fills... better than nothing at all.  (But such folks need to be prepared to pay that price many times over, dealing with the handicaps of actually using the Hantek.)


Is that better?   >:D
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #59 on: January 07, 2016, 06:49:04 pm »
Hi Mark. Ah, the dreaded 4am, never a good time (whichever end of the day it's tacked onto) :(

I agree, it's frustrating when all the information is there on a plate (not forgetting your significant contribution too) but not made use of.

Good point on the long duration streaming, Owon really could to do it with much better USB resilience given the device's greater intelligence and buffering capability compared to the Hantek. Thankfully not an issue for general use.

Glad you're ok anyway.  :)

Chris


EDIT: @mecanico, I think the last paragraph of Mark's last reply addressed your question very clearly.
P.S. I've just seen the additional information on your mechanical background in your Beginners thread, so maybe it would be helpful to re-read the thread a couple of times while googling a few terms if you don't understand them. I understand that you are on a learning curve (aren't we all!).
« Last Edit: January 07, 2016, 07:14:22 pm by Gyro »
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Offline mecanico

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #60 on: January 07, 2016, 07:13:37 pm »
Yes, I understood that Makr has the opinion that the owon is better, however I don't know what do you mean by streaming, is that the amount of data that is shown in the screen? SHouldn't that be limited by the MHz?  Btw, what is the isolation all about? I read something about burning up the PC?

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #61 on: January 07, 2016, 08:01:19 pm »
We seem to be doing a lot of talking between this and your Beginners thread  :D

Long duration streaming is where you want to collect a lot of data (usually many Mbytes) over a longer period of time (a bit like a data-logger). It streams the data to a large data buffer or file on the PC. The Hantek effectively has to do this all the time because it has no internal memory and no intelligence - this is also the reason that people have problems with it when working at higher speeds, it is very dependent on being able to get the data through the USB interface fast enough, it is left to the PC S/W too to decide when a trigger event has happened. In comparison, the Owon has intelligence and internal triggering which means that it only has to send the small amount of data to actually display on the screen, meaning that it can easily work with USB1.1 (also a reason that it is available with USB isolation - it is really difficult to isolate USB2). Unfortunately is also means that Owon have been 'lazy' in not implementing streaming, it can display at low timebases (and of course trigger and capture screenshots) but it doesn't have a streaming to PC mode for large amounts of data over long durations.

P.S. I have answered you USB isolation question in your Beginners thread.
Chris

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Offline Mark_O

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #62 on: January 07, 2016, 11:27:42 pm »
Good point on the long duration streaming, Owon really could to do it with much better USB resilience given the device's greater intelligence and buffering capability compared to the Hantek.

The Owon is vastly better as a scope than the Hantek.  However it's not nearly as good when it comes to the API, if you need to roll your own functionality.  Beyond being able to stream, the Hantek's interface is very direct, and has even been reverse-engineered so you could "talk" to it over USB on any platform (Linux, Mac, Android, etc.), from just about any device.

The Owon is more limited, and its driver for Windows doesn't actually send either a stream OR a buffer of data to your App.  Instead, it puts it in a file(!), and you have to go retrieve it from there.  Even on their higher-end models with 5MSa/channel.  There were some other gotchas I discussed with their engineers last year, but I'd have to dig up my notes.

However, none of that matters at all, as long as you're running their App (which I consider to be quite good), and have a Windows-based platform to run it on.


For anyone just getting started with electronics exploration, I think there's enough to be learned without constantly having to ask yourself why your instrument is doing this or that strange thing.  And can't do some things at all.  It just adds another obstacle to the learning process.
 

Offline mecanico

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #63 on: January 08, 2016, 07:06:08 pm »
Great answers! Thank you very much!
Owon it will be!
Greetins
 

Offline znww5

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #64 on: January 27, 2016, 04:40:05 pm »
Just a quick note to say thanks very much for this thread, together with the photos and the discussion it has given me all the info I needed to leave the 'analogue era'!

David

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Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #65 on: January 28, 2016, 06:37:43 pm »
Welcome to the forum David.

Always nice to know that these threads help people even after the discussion has died down. Let us know how you get on.  :-+
Chris

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Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #66 on: February 08, 2016, 07:50:27 am »
Hey! New to the site and fairly new to the hobby as well. Been messing with arduinos for about 6 months or so. Thanks for posting all this info, after opening mine up and doing some googling i found this thread.

I just received this scope from eBay. I decided to open it and have a look at the internals before using it. Found some issues that got missed by QC, maybe they don't confirm the component placements. Anyway, R55,56,58,59 moved around when they were soldered. It also appears that R90 and R103 may be missing from the bottom, unless these have been omitted for a reason. Also the shield around the inputs doesnt go all the way to the board, there is about a 2mm gap, not sure if that matters or not. The ones in the PCB pics here show them in place though. I'll try to post some pictures if i can.

I'm thinking ill probably just return it but in the off chance i decide its better to just attempt to repair it can someone post a hi-res pic of each of those locations? Unfortunately the ones already posted here aren't clear enough to see the resistor values.

How do i post pictures?

EDIT: I did try it out but after opening and checking it. It seemed to work fine but I was concerned about the "missing" and "moved around" resistors. I have since learned that Gyro installed the resistors I had thought were missing and on closer inspection the moved resistors appear to be a factory mod.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 01:18:46 pm by KNO3- »
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #67 on: February 08, 2016, 07:56:40 am »
Here's some pictures, I realized the size of the pictures was the reason they wouldn't post.
 

Offline rf-loop

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #68 on: February 08, 2016, 10:45:15 am »
Anyway, R55,56,58,59 moved around when they were soldered.

My "quess" is that this is designed modification if you look more carefully this circuit and what have changed.
If practice and theory is not equal it tells that used application of theory is wrong or the theory itself is wrong.
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Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #69 on: February 08, 2016, 10:56:10 am »

Quote

My "quess" is that this is designed modification if you look more carefully this circuit and what have changed.

You think so? The ones missing on the back that would make sense but these...I'm not so sure. The resistor sticking out of the side of R59 doesnt even appear to be attached to anything. There is no pad, unless they have scratched out a new pad underneath there.
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #70 on: February 08, 2016, 10:57:06 am »
Hi,

You didn't think it was worth testing it before opening it up? That sort of thing can give you problems with the seller if you disturb tamper seals etc.

From what I can see:

- The resistors around R55-R59 look like deliberate board mods with additional resistors added between nodes and ground plane.

- R90 and R103 are used to connect the USB connector ground to the main ground plane. You have purchased the 1022I USB isolation version so these resistors wouldn't be fitted (you shouldn't expect every footprint on a PCB to be populated on every option).

- The small gap under the screening can shouldn't have any significant effect, I think Mark_O noticed the same on his unit, I can't remember the reason now.

It would be silly to return it or start attacking it with a soldering iron until you've actually tested it to see if it works. You're also going to run into problems with the seller if you tell him you want to return it because you opened it up!  :palm:  Put it back together, install it and see if it works - please try doing that and report back.

P.S. There is a downside of the "Don't turn it on, take it apart" mentality on this forum when adopted by the inexperienced, sorry.

EDIT: Yes I suspect that the resistor to the side of R59 is soldered to a bare area on the groundplane.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 11:00:13 am by Gyro »
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Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #71 on: February 08, 2016, 11:35:40 am »
Hi,

You didn't think it was worth testing it before opening it up? That sort of thing can give you problems with the seller if you disturb tamper seals etc.

Of course I tried it and there are no tamper seals. But just because it seems to work doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly or going to keep working as it is. Or maybe some setting i try in the future doesn't work. Although since this is related to the USB connection that's probably unlikely.

Quote
- R90 and R103 are used to connect the USB connector ground to the main ground plane. You have purchased the 1022I USB isolation version so these resistors wouldn't be fitted (you shouldn't expect every footprint on a PCB to be populated on every option).

I didn't expect the board to be fully populated, there are lots of other areas not populated. The only reason I was curious about these two resistors is the pictures you originally posted show these two in place and it is the 1022I model if I'm not mistaken. All the iso chips are populated and I believe you confirmed it was the 1022I model in your post.
 
Quote

P.S. There is a downside of the "Don't turn it on, take it apart" mentality on this forum when adopted by the inexperienced, sorry.

EDIT: Yes I suspect that the resistor to the side of R59 is soldered to a bare area on the groundplane.

I have ordered Chinese electronics that have had loose/extra parts and balls of solder rolling around inside. Lots of poor soldering and cold joints as well. There is also a ton of counterfeit product floating around. Then there's real product that's supposed to be trashed because it failed QC but ends up going out the back door of the factory. Then someone does a shoty repair or just sells it and you end up with a sub par product. I just wanted to make sure everything looked ok and it looked like a legitimate board before plugging the thing into my USB port.

Thanks for your reply though, on closer inspection it does appear its intentional. Hopefully it was the Owon factory that did the mod. I'll do some tests and post back if I have any issues.
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #72 on: February 08, 2016, 12:04:31 pm »
This is the 1kHz wave form from the signal output on the scope. Looks pretty good to me, not a whole lot of noise. Maybe I was worrying about nothing.
 

Offline KNO3-

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #73 on: February 08, 2016, 12:28:33 pm »
Here's line voltage AC in the house. Everything seems to be fine with this unit.  :phew: I'm also very impressed with the software UI, it's better than I expected. The measurement tools are pretty helpful and quite easy to use. Seems like the software has quite a few useful features. So far I haven't found anything really annoying to use.
« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:31:11 pm by KNO3- »
 

Offline Gyro

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Re: OWON VDS1022I Quick Teardown (versus the Hantek 6022be)
« Reply #74 on: February 08, 2016, 12:32:22 pm »
Quote
Of course I tried it and there are no tamper seals. But just because it seems to work doesn't necessarily mean it's working properly or going to keep working as it is. Or maybe some setting i try in the future doesn't work. Although since this is related to the USB connection that's probably unlikely.

Ah, ok, you did test it, good. From your initial post it really didn't read that way, especially when you were talking about 'just returning it or trying to repair it'.

Quote
I didn't expect the board to be fully populated, there are lots of other areas not populated. The only reason I was curious about these two resistors is the pictures you originally posted show these two in place and it is the 1022I model if I'm not mistaken. All the iso chips are populated and I believe you confirmed it was the 1022I model in your post.

My mistake - it was actually me who added those resistors (and forgot). I like to provide a discharge path, even on Isolated equipment, if only to avoid the risk of static buildup. I used 2 x 10M resistors if I remember correctly. Purely a personal choice though.

Quote
I have ordered Chinese electronics that have had loose/extra parts and balls of solder rolling around inside. Lots of poor soldering and cold joints as well. There is also a ton of counterfeit product floating around. Then there's real product that's supposed to be trashed because it failed QC but ends up going out the back door of the factory. Then someone does a shoty repair or just sells it and you end up with a sub par product. I just wanted to make sure everything looked ok and it looked like a legitimate board before plugging the thing into my USB port.

I'm glad to say that no one appears to have counterfeited the Owon, there probably isn't enough margin in it. They are pretty keenly priced given the BOM cost. I though you said you had tested it before taking it apart, that would imply plugging it into your USB port.  ;)  I understand your motivation though.

Quote
Thanks for your reply though, on closer inspection it does appear its intentional. Hopefully it was the Owon factory that did the mod. I'll do some tests and post back if I have any issues.

You're welcome, I hope I haven't put you off posting here, we're generally a friendly bunch (even me  :D). Yes that would be a factory mod. Owon do seem to be pretty skilled (or at least cunning) in their board mods. On my earlier rev board they managed to correct a swap in the USB signals by diagonally crossing two 0603 resistors on adjacent pads - something that would be taxing one-off, let alone on a production line!

P.S. I've just seen your trace captures, yes that looks nice, no cause for concern there. I think you'll be happy with it. If you're still worried about noise performance then you could try replicating some of the tests that I carried out for rf-loop on page 1. Hopefully yours, being a later rev board, might be quieter still.

...and yes, the UI is surprisingly good (especially for Owon, who've taken some flack previously). You might want to look at the shortcuts I identified too.





« Last Edit: February 08, 2016, 12:34:27 pm by Gyro »
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