What exactly did I say? The only thing I mentioned was the user interface.
You don't have to own one to be able to look at Dave's video (or even Rigol's "marketing video") and know the user interface is a massive improvement over traditional Rigol's Siglents:
PS: Have you checked the credentials of everybody posting here, or is it just because I'm the only one who adds disclaimers?
What makes you think that RIgol user interface is easier to use and more ergonomic than touch Siglents?
Little Teletubbies pictures?
Oh no, not again....
Yes, again, the truth MUST be told
yes and the whole discussion about using history mode instead etc.
but i think i missed here the part of the conversation where somebody mentions what these new rigol hdo do in same situation. dave shows a variety of scopes and... that was before these new rigol platform got released.
however the r&s rtb probably would be my overall personal choice. were it not in a completely different price tier category and unobtainable. so if these new are better that's a positive
but yes, better not to stir up another contentious arguments. its almost worth not knowing the answer for the pages of grief otherwise incurred
Oh no, not again....
Yes, again, the truth MUST be toldBe sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.
However what is more important is to point out your inability to adapt to use the perfectly functional tools you have at your disposal such as split screen Zoom mode.
Oh no, not again....
Yes, again, the truth MUST be toldBe sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.
However what is more important is to point out your inability to adapt to use the perfectly functional tools you have at your disposal such as split screen Zoom mode.
Tautech,
I would like instead to point out your total inability to understand why zoom-out feature is mandatory for lot of situations, or maybe your marketing target is so important at the point to negate/invert reality, like it happened in the SDS2000X HD LA speed comparison with SDS2000X (much faster) where you demonstrated to have NO knowledge about the matter.
Anyway is always funny to see the level of bashing commitment of the whole Siglent Armada in every Rigol thread, it's a pity that Rigol has no interest to inject marketing guys in this forum otherwise it would have been an unparalleled meltdown.
As for some of the weaknesses of the Siglent SDS2000X HD interface, I learned a bit from a topic hosted by Martin72. These are practical notes, not pasting screenshots without having the opportunity to work on this equipment.
Oh no, not again....
Yes, again, the truth MUST be toldBe sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.
However what is more important is to point out your inability to adapt to use the perfectly functional tools you have at your disposal such as split screen Zoom mode.
Tautech,
I would like instead to point out your total inability to understand why zoom-out feature is mandatory for lot of situations, or maybe your marketing target is so important at the point to negate/invert reality, like it happened in the SDS2000X HD LA speed comparison with SDS2000X (much faster) where you demonstrated to have NO knowledge about the matter.
Anyway is always funny to see the level of bashing commitment of the whole Siglent Armada in every Rigol thread, it's a pity that Rigol has no interest to inject marketing guys in this forum otherwise it would have been an unparalleled meltdown.
There is no "Siglent armada"... Just people trying to dispense with misinformation. At least on my part.
Just for your information, I personally "defended honor" of Rigol, Picoscope even Keysight etc on many occasions when people would write things that are not true..
And if there weren't for "Rigol crusaders" trying to demonize every little thing that is different on other scopes there would be no need for any of these unnecessary, uncivilized, useless, protracted crapshoots about "my **** is bigger than yours...
I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.
I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.
I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".
I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.
I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".
He means "information I don't want to hear".
Oh no, not again....
Yes, again, the truth MUST be toldBe sure you place LeCroy and Pico in the same basket.
However what is more important is to point out your inability to adapt to use the perfectly functional tools you have at your disposal such as split screen Zoom mode.
Tautech,
I would like instead to point out your total inability to understand why zoom-out feature is mandatory for lot of situations, or maybe your marketing target is so important at the point to negate/invert reality, like it happened in the SDS2000X HD LA speed comparison with SDS2000X (much faster) where you demonstrated to have NO knowledge about the matter.
Anyway is always funny to see the level of bashing commitment of the whole Siglent Armada in every Rigol thread, it's a pity that Rigol has no interest to inject marketing guys in this forum otherwise it would have been an unparalleled meltdown.
There is no "Siglent armada"... Just people trying to dispense with misinformation. At least on my part.
Just for your information, I personally "defended honor" of Rigol, Picoscope even Keysight etc on many occasions when people would write things that are not true..
And if there weren't for "Rigol crusaders" trying to demonize every little thing that is different on other scopes there would be no need for any of these unnecessary, uncivilized, useless, protracted crapshoots about "my **** is bigger than yours...
I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.
I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".
I do feel in syntony with David for the simple reason that I do make use of zoom out feature on many occasions as well as I put scope in auto memory mode in other, so this kind of flexibility is important to me like to other workers that operate in similar condition.
Anyway, the fact that Siglent started to implement it in medium / higher models confirms that it does make sense, i would guess that we will see it appear in lower end models in the future, in the meanwhile I consider its absence a lack, not a feature.
The attempt to pass the zoom solution as equivalent does not work for many reasons, especially for cheap scopes where the screen size and resolution are limited and the zoom function slow down operations a lot, especially during its navigation.
But to understand this fact you have to actual use a scope under certain conditions, sure it's note the case for all users but information about that must be evaluated before the purchase and the David's video here comes a lot in handy.
Also you can't deny that here we have an important Siglent marketing supporters, in part official, group that operates exclusively to expand Siglent sales at the expense of the main competitor (Rigol) and this sounds as an anomaly for a technical forum, in fact in many other web tech forums this is forbidden by specific rule.
As for some of the weaknesses of the Siglent SDS2000X HD interface, I learned a bit from a topic hosted by Martin72. These are practical notes, not pasting screenshots without having the opportunity to work on this equipment.
Sorry, but unless you own one you can't possible know anything about them.
Reading things in forums doesn't count. That's just the way it is.
In short, I am delighted with the purchase of this SIglent SDS1204X-E scope, I do not regret this change of oscilloscope, even with a price difference of almost 3 times.
You should have spent a bit more and got the new Rigol 12-bit oscilloscopes.
They're a whole other level in terms of user interface and performance.
A bit more to have a 12 bits scope, 4 channels and 200 MHz BW !!!
Nooooooo, much more.
You won't regret it if you upgrade your Siglent to the new Rigol.
Seems there is a first FW update available for the HDO4K
https://www.rigol.eu/En/Index/listView/catid/28/tp/6/cat/7/xl/52
no description though
In the FPGA section we can see BODE reference ... Maybe with an external gen?
50Ω has nothing to do with scope amplitude....
And I will repeat: what frequency are you measuring at?
It can be 100x attenuated depending on frequency...
But it is probably a bug in data scaling after calculations for HiRes..
Rigol forced this out too soon..
And just a few days ago I realized why: they just had IPO on Chinese Shanghai Stock Exchange..
1KHz ...
It is oversampling. From 5 MSs/s to 50 MSa/s.
But whatever the cause it is a bug of course.
As was saying 2N3055 "is probably a bug in data scaling after calculations for HiRes", the weird thing is that it passed internal prelaminar test fully unnoticed
I'm getting some strange high frequency noise in waveform traces dumped with SCPI commands, something that seems not present on ths DSO screen
I will show later.
Latest scopes offer Auto or Fixed mem depth of which each has their advantages.
I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.
I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".
He means "information I don't want to hear".
All the stuff how Keysight works is wrong. But you don't have Keysight scope either...
I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.
I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".
He means "information I don't want to hear".
All the stuff how Keysight works is wrong. But you don't have Keysight scope either...
You can reply with your own video and explain in detail this wrongness, I will be glad to watch it.
Latest scopes offer Auto or Fixed mem depth of which each has their advantages.
So how do you explain that latest mid-high end Siglent scopes are introducing this "Not Necessary Feature" already present in ALL Rigol scopes from ages ?
Suddenly this "feature" matters a lot ?
1. Do the currently sold HDO1000 still have the full 50 ohm input path of the 4000 model ? And whether uploading the firmware from the 4000 model activates the possibility of using the 50 ohm track ?
2. Do the advanced triggers work without problems and there are no problems with the firmware ? I care most about (Pulse Width Trigger, Pattern Trigger, Duration Trigger, Window Trigger, Timeout Trigger, Delay Trigger).
3. I have not found anywhere that HDO oscilloscope provide zone triggering (I was looking at the HDO manuals). If so, could someone check if they work correctly. Rigol MSO5000/MSO7000, Siglent 2000X Plus/HD and my Agilent 3054A have zone triggers and I really care about that (they make life easier and it's hard to replace them in any other way - I honestly can't imagine working without such triggers)
If someone doesn't know what zone triggering is, here's a description of how it works:
4. Are there any bugs in the software that cause math functions to malfunction? Can you test their performance and report back to me ?
5. I am also interested in the Power Analysis option, how can someone test it if it works properly (there are no errors in the firmware) and present sample measurements here, I will be grateful. Does the Power Analysis option work on HDO1000 after uploading the firmware from HDO4000 ? Mainly this option has the potential to use 12 bits in practice...
6. Does the firmwre allow you to disable interpolation and display samples as dots on the screen (without connecting the dots) ?
7. Has the Bode function been implemented for Rigol external generators ? (current versions of the manual do not mention this). I am referring to this post:Seems there is a first FW update available for the HDO4K
https://www.rigol.eu/En/Index/listView/catid/28/tp/6/cat/7/xl/52
no description though
In the FPGA section we can see BODE reference ... Maybe with an external gen?
I have a Siglent VNA as I mentioned, but it's designed for high frequencies. So a big advantage would be the Bode option operating at lower frequencies. Rigol MSO5000 and Siglent have this function, I'm a bit surprised by the lack of it in HDO...
8. Do the problems listed here also exist in the HDO4000 firmware ?50Ω has nothing to do with scope amplitude....
And I will repeat: what frequency are you measuring at?
It can be 100x attenuated depending on frequency...
But it is probably a bug in data scaling after calculations for HiRes..
Rigol forced this out too soon..
And just a few days ago I realized why: they just had IPO on Chinese Shanghai Stock Exchange..
1KHz ...
It is oversampling. From 5 MSs/s to 50 MSa/s.
But whatever the cause it is a bug of course.
As was saying 2N3055 "is probably a bug in data scaling after calculations for HiRes", the weird thing is that it passed internal prelaminar test fully unnoticed
I'm getting some strange high frequency noise in waveform traces dumped with SCPI commands, something that seems not present on ths DSO screen
I will show later.
9. Are there any other known issues when using SCPI ?
10. How does the XY mode work ? Doesn't it have the problems that were in the MSO5000 ? How fast is the XY mode ? (would love to see a video)
Fungus, I hope that as a person who highly recommends HDO oscilloscopes, you will dispel my doubts and answer the questions asked.
Of course, seriously, I direct this question to those who own these oscilloscopes.
I get all worked up when people bring that particular video because that video is full of wrong information and conclusions. We had lengthy discussion about what is and what isn't right in that video information and what Siglent truly can and cannot do.
I find that video quite clear, dunno what you refer to with "wrong information".
He means "information I don't want to hear".
All the stuff how Keysight works is wrong. But you don't have Keysight scope either...
You can reply with your own video and explain in detail this wrongness, I will be glad to watch it.
So you are saying I'm lying, basically...
I don't do Teletubbies for people that are too lazy to read what was already explained dozens of times...
I documented all in details in posts... And it was separately verified..
If you don't trust me, buy your own Keysight scope (like I did) and verify it yourself..
It is your problem, not mine. I did my part.
-snip
1. No, 50 ohm is not active even with the latest Fw. Although I don't have a confirmation from Rigol (I ask but they didn't bother to answer) I am pretty sure that is and will be the same firmware. It work perfectly on HDO1K and even the firmware from HDO1K flash(factory new) is called "HDO4000Update.GEL". At startup, a script can querry the hardware and load the correspodent fpga app.(start_rigol_app.sh)
2. I didn't test thoroughly but until now I did not find any problems. Only time will tell. Even on mature fw versions users can find problems after years, testing on specific setup.
3. No zone triggering. This is also my regret. On Rigol5K is a pleasure to use it.
4. I did not find until now but it is possible that anytime someone can find a bug. See point 2.
5. I can't activate this option on my HDO1K.
6. No. Only vector.
7. No external Bode ploting until now.
8. HiRes problem has been solved with the Fw. updates.
9. I don't know.
10. Slower than Rigol 5K, but at least it can be resized on entire screen.
DO not get me wrong, I do not have any knowledge about modern Keysight scopes because my customers do not buy them anymore and for sure I'm not going to buy them too and I never said you are lying, but Keysight scopes are out of topic and remaining concepts explained in David's video are adhering with reality.
Instead I was meaning another thing : it's not easy to put concepts in video and here all must agree that David makes a great job in that, so I have respect for his job.
The problem here is another : Siglent supporters still try to convert a lack in a plus and the proof is that this very feature is appearing in more expensive scopes, this is the simple and plain truth, no way to negate it.
Short, but I hope this help:
Also if someone has better info please correct me:
1. No, 50 ohm is not active even with the latest Fw. Although I don't have a confirmation from Rigol (I ask but they didn't bother to answer) I am pretty sure that is and will be the same firmware. It work perfectly on HDO1K and even the firmware from HDO1K flash(factory new) is called "HDO4000Update.GEL". At startup, a script can querry the hardware and load the correspodent fpga app.(start_rigol_app.sh)
2. I didn't test thoroughly but until now I did not find any problems. Only time will tell. Even on mature fw versions users can find problems after years, testing on specific setup.
3. No zone triggering. This is also my regret. On Rigol5K is a pleasure to use it.
4. I did not find until now but it is possible that anytime someone can find a bug. See point 2.
5. I can't activate this option on my HDO1K.
6. No. Only vector.
7. No external Bode ploting until now.
8. HiRes problem has been solved with the Fw. updates.
9. I don't know.
10. Slower than Rigol 5K, but at least it can be resized on entire screen.
I can confirm all the points but the last (because I never used XY) and I would add some observations :
1) I do not expect any HDO4K FW adaptation for HDO1K HW, it is very likely that all the additional 4K features will never be ported to the 1K series.
2) If you want an instrument with a mature FW you must buy something that is on the market for several years.
3) The current selling point for HDO1K is the price, if previous two points are deal killer for you then prepare for a much bigger pocket effort or skip 12bits feature.
As for some of the weaknesses of the Siglent SDS2000X HD interface, I learned a bit from a topic hosted by Martin72. These are practical notes, not pasting screenshots without having the opportunity to work on this equipment.
Sorry, but unless you own one you can't possible know anything about them.
Reading things in forums doesn't count. That's just the way it is.
Mawyatt, I don't know if it is good enough, but I own a SDG 2K AWG that work with wave combine.
If you suggest me a setup(delta F) I can try to show a FFT on HDO1K.