Author Topic: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series  (Read 149630 times)

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Online EEVblog

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #50 on: September 18, 2025, 10:43:13 am »
Never mind the active interface, as far as I see it doesn't have 50 Ohm input.

Where have you looked? I can't find any info at all.
Actually, it does have it. It's not in the specifications but it's printed on the front. 50 Ohm 5V max.

Well that is what Josh mentioned previously. DHO1074 also have it printed on the front but does not have it.

Unbelieveable oversight.
 
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Online EEVblog

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #51 on: September 18, 2025, 10:43:57 am »
If it's really a limited series, does it make sense to review it in like 6 month when nobody can buy it anymore?

Good point,  I'll ask. Mostly likely just the silver knob wanker edition.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2025, 10:46:33 am by EEVblog »
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #52 on: September 18, 2025, 10:46:02 am »
Though this is just a dho800 enclosure, so its the smaller 7" screen. I can't see many people in NA paying $1400 for that size of scope. I assume the mho900 will be a lot less (MHO98 is the bling edition).

Under $1k
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #53 on: September 18, 2025, 11:04:47 am »
One is hitting Australia next week, and I've been offered a loaner for a review, should I do it?

I'm already way behind on a whole bunch of videos, so I'd have to bump other stuff :-//
If it's really a limited series, does it make sense to review it in like 6 month when nobody can buy it anymore?

I thought only the MHO98 was limited... is the MHO900 limited as well?

We have to literally wait and see what is going on. At this moment Rigol churned out huge amount of models that is not going to survive on the market. Not all of them.


I would not bet what will survive here. Only time will tell. They seem to have no strategy whatsoever. It seems marketing department is making product decisions by randomly stabbing in a dark by looking into opinions from Internet.

If I were to venture a guess, this looks EXACTLY like someone is using ChatGPT (or some other AI) to analyze data from Internet and use that for decisions what kind of product to make. Without anybody checking if that makes any sense.
Also, from cheapest to most expensive scope in Gen3.x they all have exactly the same (not completely finished) software with same capabilities, that are not only less than competition but in some regards, less than their own older products. There is so much overlap in their own offering, that cannibalization is occuring.
And if you look at the market, it seems that to a  critique of not best software and numerous complaints about it, they still released even more new scopes with it (without addressing any current issues). And to a question of sales that are not going well for reasons stated, they decided to address that by dropping prices.

And now this cringy "Limited Edition Gold" marketing campaign...
I remember several members here dreaming of hacking DHO900 to higher BW to be able to get close to 1GHz with single channel.
It seems Rigol took the critique of DHO900 having not enough sampling rate for BW, and also at the same time took that people want more BW and implemented mishmash of those two. So they once again created a scope that is again incapable of sampling at full BW at 4 Ch (again it violates Nyquist). So they replaced one 900 incompetent at 250 MHz for one incompetent at 1GHz. And they are targeting same crowd that don't actually care to use the scope just it looks cool and there are big numbers. Yeee...
If they could only control themselves and limit new scope to 350 or even 500Mhz that would be nice. But they cannot help it.

As to my prediction to imminent culling of the offering, I would just remind people to what happened in AWG area.
Several AWGs were released, and now are discontinued. Old DG1000Z is still on sale, but funny looking 800/900 series appeared and disappeared in course of few years. And it was abandoned with FW development and support.
User Manual stayed on V1.0 from 2019-08-29. Same as FW.

So you see, they develop product "just good enough" so it is kind of working but not fully ironed out. They release it, initially do some debug, temporarily keeping core development team together. After a year or so, they disband core team, and keep some capability to debug, but core team moves on to new products.
They keep making it as long as there is no need for further development, you just keep production line running.


P.S I just saw what Dave said about price. I you will be able to buy MHO900 at same price as now is DHO900, I think DHO900 is dead.  If you get MHO900 350MHz version, that is better or same than DHO900 in every respect,  but actually samples properly.
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
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Offline NE666

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #54 on: September 18, 2025, 12:17:50 pm »
I thought only the MHO98 was limited... is the MHO900 limited as well?

That's the impression that I took from the press release. Just the MHO98 model from the range is 'Limited Edition', hence why it alone carries the (awful, bling), gilded serial number plate.

It would make no sense to invest in design and tooling for a new model series, just to artificially limit its sales volume. Might work for Faberge eggs and the like but not test equipment.

+1 for an objective warts 'n all functional Dave review, rather than just a tear down.
 

Offline NE666

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #55 on: September 18, 2025, 12:19:01 pm »
silver knob wanker edition.

That's the thumbnail sorted.
 


Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #57 on: September 18, 2025, 06:33:03 pm »
Hm. 1076€ for the MHO984 are currently $1268 (US) or $1916 (AUS).
Even €873 for the the lowest model would be currently 1029 yankee bucks.
Only when converting 6999 Yuan for the lowest model 934 directly into US dollars, the price is slightly below 1k ($984).
« Last Edit: September 18, 2025, 06:36:06 pm by 0xdeadbeef »
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Offline Martin72

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #58 on: September 18, 2025, 06:46:17 pm »
Quote
the price is slightly below 1k ($984).

Below is below. ;)
These are converted Chinese prices, which may change downward when the devices become available here.
But they may also change upward.

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #59 on: September 18, 2025, 07:09:11 pm »
At best, the MHO900 line will start slightly below $1k. Considering taxes etc., even that is questionable.
Anyway, I don't see the large price gap between the MHO98 and the MHO984 (which is the only somewhat comparable model from the MHO900 line) as suggested in the original context.
Actually, considering the bandwidth upgrade and the "full option" package including the 500MPts upgrade, a 16ch LA probe and a case, the $140 price difference between the MHO984 and the MHO98 sounds like a total bargain.
Well, letting aside how sensible a 1GHz (or even 800MHz) scope is that offers 4GSa/s only in single channel mode.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 
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Offline asmi

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #60 on: September 18, 2025, 07:23:09 pm »
Well, letting aside how sensible a 1GHz (or even 800MHz) scope is that offers 4GSa/s only in single channel mode.
Considering that the cheapest 1GHz scope I know of is over 5k$, I can see many people being totally cool with a single-channel 1GHz scope for 1.5k$.
« Last Edit: September 19, 2025, 12:31:13 am by asmi »
 
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Offline thm_w

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #61 on: September 18, 2025, 09:47:17 pm »
And now this cringy "Limited Edition Gold" marketing campaign...
I remember several members here dreaming of hacking DHO900 to higher BW to be able to get close to 1GHz with single channel.

OK so its not for you, we get it. Its still innovation and increased competition. I don't care for the flashy enthusiast/gaming PC scene but still acknowledge how much they've driven performance forward and costs down.

If someone asked a week ago where to buy a 12bit 800MHz+ scope for $1k they'd be laughed off the forum.
Profile -> Modify profile -> Look and Layout ->  Don't show users' signatures
 
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Online 2N3055

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #62 on: September 18, 2025, 10:16:10 pm »
And now this cringy "Limited Edition Gold" marketing campaign...
I remember several members here dreaming of hacking DHO900 to higher BW to be able to get close to 1GHz with single channel.

OK so its not for you, we get it. Its still innovation and increased competition. I don't care for the flashy enthusiast/gaming PC scene but still acknowledge how much they've driven performance forward and costs down.

If someone asked a week ago where to buy a 12bit 800MHz+ scope for $1k they'd be laughed off the forum.

No I do acknowledge that there might be use for single channel 1GHz scope. If that can be had for very little money that will be great thing for those in market for that kind of device. Fact that I have no use for it is of no importance to other people with their priorities.
"Just hard work is not enough - it must be applied sensibly."
Dr. Richard W. Hamming
 
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Offline Fungus

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #63 on: September 19, 2025, 04:22:47 am »
One is hitting Australia next week, and I've been offered a loaner for a review, should I do it?

I'm already way behind on a whole bunch of videos, so I'd have to bump other stuff :-//

Sure, why not.

It doesn't have to be very in-depth, most of it is probably the same as the DHO800/DHO900.
 

Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #64 on: September 19, 2025, 04:30:54 pm »
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 

Offline faveri97

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #65 on: September 21, 2025, 05:16:30 am »
My unit of MHO98 just arrived and the first impressions are not terrible to me.

The form factor is the same as the DHO900 series. Fan noise is also approximately the same. CPU temp is around 55 degrees celsius after 30 mins of operation according to the self test menu. The BNC ports feel really warm to touch.

Boot time is around 55 seconds. Active power draw is around 60W. The bundled power adapter is a 100W (20V, 5A) USB C Liteon one.

The sleep mode of DHO900 series is replaced with a "low power" mode which takes around 6 seconds to enter and only 3 seconds to recover from. However, the power draw is ~18W in this mode.

Other differences compared to the DHO914S during my initial fiddling around:

1. The nearly useless UltraAcquire mode is replaced with high resolution mode.
2. The auto trigger delay is lower than DHO914S with the 1.04 firmware, resulting a faster waveform update rate when the scope is not triggered. I don't know why they slowed down the auto trigger mode for the 1.04 firmware though.
3. It comes with a WiFi / bluetooth adapter and can be connected to the front panel USB port to enable Internet access and time synchronization.
4. There is a new full screen mode to increase the waveform display area. The screenshot is attached below.

I'll do some actual tests tomorrow at work before selling my DHO914S or returning the MHO98.
 
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Offline 0xdeadbeef

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #66 on: September 21, 2025, 07:39:05 am »
4. There is a new full screen mode to increase the waveform display area. The screenshot is attached below.
At least this sounds like a pretty good idea.
Trying is the first step towards failure - Homer J. Simpson
 
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Offline faveri97

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #67 on: September 23, 2025, 07:15:24 am »
I performed some basic bandwidth tests with my MHO98 in 50Ohm input mode. The -3dB bandwidth is ~1.16GHz when the sampling rate is 4GHz. As expected, there are heavy aliasing problems when the sampling rate drops below 4GHz. The AFE bandwidth is very likely not adjusted according to the sampling rate.

However, there seems to be some digital filtering going on around the Nyquist frequency. When the sampling rate is 2Gsps, the amplitude response is greatly attenuated at frequencies around 1GHz and rises again at ~1.2GHz. This is more apparent for the 1Gsps sampling rate, where the frequencies around 500MHz and 1500MHz are attenuated. And I can't reach the specified 400MHz -3dB bandwidth (ignoring the aliasing effects) when the sampling rate is 1Gsps.

Then I reduced the sampling rate further to 5ksps by adjusting the time base, so the presumed digital filtering is probably not in effect. I measured a -3dB bandwidth of ~1.23GHz under this condition. I think this is the real AFE bandwidth of this scope.

I tried to enable the 250MHz bandwidth limit function to reduce aliasing when the sampling rate is 1GHz. However, it seems that the bandwidth limit function is also likely implemented with both analog and digital filtering. There is still some aliasing at frequencies from 700MHz to 1300MHz.

I don't know if this problem can be fixed in software or not. Maybe it should switch to MHO934 when the sampling rate is below 4GHz.
 
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Offline faveri97

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #68 on: September 23, 2025, 07:25:40 am »
One of the good news is that the FFT function has finally been revised.

1. The missing average and max hold modes are implemented.
2. The number of FFT points is displayed (hidden in the screenshots), and the RBW calculation bug is fixed.
3. The flat top window function seems to be fixed. Note that the number of FFT points is not the same for the two scopes in the screenshots.
 
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Offline RogerG

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #69 on: September 23, 2025, 09:29:38 am »
It seems that they finally understood some of the complainings of thousands of their DHO 800/900 users.
Now we have to hope that here will be a FW 1.05 with these fixes ...
 
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Offline jjloki

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #70 on: September 27, 2025, 06:27:36 am »
my brand new silver knob wanker edition. :phew:
 
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Offline NE666

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #71 on: September 27, 2025, 07:53:38 am »
my brand new silver knob wanker edition

So, they fitted chrome bling knobs but then shipped with cheapest of the cheap BNC covers, rather than some nice(r) metal ones??

PS. Your little Sony monitor is adorable.
 

Offline jjloki

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #72 on: September 27, 2025, 09:36:00 am »
my brand new silver knob wanker edition

So, they fitted chrome bling knobs but then shipped with cheapest of the cheap BNC covers, rather than some nice(r) metal ones??

PS. Your little Sony monitor is adorable.

Nah, I was the one who bought these cheap stuffs :D 

Some info I got from Rigol guys: The 1Ghz version is only limited to this special edition. The MHO9000 series won't be enabled to 1Ghz by Rigol(only to 800MHZ maximum)

They do give users a free quality backpack with pedantic looking.
 

Offline Lethe

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #73 on: September 27, 2025, 11:01:39 am »
my brand new silver knob wanker edition

So, they fitted chrome bling knobs but then shipped with cheapest of the cheap BNC covers, rather than some nice(r) metal ones??

PS. Your little Sony monitor is adorable.

Nah, I was the one who bought these cheap stuffs :D 

Some info I got from Rigol guys: The 1Ghz version is only limited to this special edition. The MHO9000 series won't be enabled to 1Ghz by Rigol(only to 800MHZ maximum)

They do give users a free quality backpack with pedantic looking.
Is it maybe possible to flash the MHO98 image into MHO900 or replace the vendor to crack?
 

Offline Sorama

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Re: RIGOL MHO98 and MHO900 Oscilloscope Series
« Reply #74 on: September 27, 2025, 11:27:45 am »
my brand new silver knob wanker edition

So, they fitted chrome bling knobs but then shipped with cheapest of the cheap BNC covers, rather than some nice(r) metal ones??

PS. Your little Sony monitor is adorable.

So does Micsig and Siglent.
 


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