Author Topic: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers  (Read 1081357 times)

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Offline vsilves

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2625 on: November 03, 2025, 10:50:28 pm »
Playing some more with SSA300X Plus.  Don't have a fancy vector signal generator so outputting modulations via sound card on MacBook Pro at 48KHz sampling rate (24KHz bandwidth only).

Pic 1 shows modulation analysis with center frequency at 12KHz and nothing on input of SA (I even terminated with a 50Ω load).  These spikes are not present when in SA mode (non-modulation analysis).  They also go away if I move the CF a few KHz up.  Must be intermodulation products from the big spike at DC (my guess) but why not visible in SA mode?

Pic 2 and 3.  In any case I can generate modulations (8PSK, QAM16) via python script and numpy et al. and I get reasonably good constellation locks.  Not showing QAM64 or higher, but not a good lock visually.

Pic 4 thru 7.  Using an RF mixer and a LO at 10MHz  to bring sound card IF signals up, I see a lot less intermodulation products (but still some from LO, which is a bit off the screen, to the left).  QPSK, 8PSK, QAM16, and now QAM64 lock (visually).

Pic 8 and 9.  QAM-128 and QAM-256 hopeless, of course.

Puzzled by the EVM figures.  Visually, seeing more points in real-time than shown in the screenshots, I see what looks like darned good locks.  Not sure what units the EVM is reported on (% of total magnitude?).  Either way EVM and EVM%RMS both quite high.

Next, trying to get an external sound card with line out/in and 192KHz sampling rate to see if moving the center frequency further away from DC or LO improves things.  Assuming I find one that is not junk and output is linear.
 
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Offline vsilves

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2626 on: November 12, 2025, 02:24:19 am »
Playing some more with modulation analysis but first showing MacBookPro headphones out (96KHz sampling rate) and an external usb sound card (192KHz sampling rate) bandwidth in SA analyzer mode with maxhold trace (computer sweeping frequencies 0 to 100KHz to build the maxhold traces). See picture 1.  MacBook Pro headphones out (green) drops right before Nyquist (48Khz) and requires setting 96KHz sampling rate in MIDI Setup app (otherwise sampling defaults to 48 so bandwidth drops near 24KHz).  Cubilux external sound card does have a flat response all the way to 96KHz with both its headphones and line out ports.  Different flat levels due to different output volumes (roughly set to about half to avoid distortion, which becomes visible as harmonics beyond Nyquist).  Drop near DC is the SA limitation at 9KHz and below.  Nice to be able to use the SA for audio work!

All modulations produced via python from scratch and outputted via computer sound card.  Could not get QAM128 or QAM256 to lock on SA modulation analysis, even with matching RRC filter definitions, number of taps, etc.  SSA can only do up to 128 filter taps so increasing the number of samples per symbol in my script exceeds that and therefore does not help. My conclusion is that I did not need more bandwidth for higher order constellations, what I needed was more dynamic range, which the sound cards are unable to provide, unfortunately.  Once I figure out how to code OFDM I will be able to use the additional bandwidth but the SA will not be able to demodulate that.

The rest of pictures just show other modulation types that I had not coded/produced before as an illustration.  Interesting that for ASK the SA does not ask how many states (bits per symbol) and it just figures it out on its own.  See pics for OOK, BASK, QASK, and ASK8 working quite nicely.  Of note is that, for QASK and ASK8, even though symbols have 2 and 3 bits, respectively, the SA shows only binary (0s and 1s) in the symbols table, even when hex is selected as shown in the pictures (a *bug*?).  This does not err on QPSK/8PSK, only on QASK/ASK8.

Remaining pictures are just other fancy (to me) modulations that I don't know much about other what I read to code them.  MSK, APSK16, APSK32, and QAM32 that I had not coded the other day.  All quite nice to play with!
 
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Offline Armin308

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2627 on: November 19, 2025, 11:04:30 pm »
Hi!

I'm planning to buy an SSA3021X-Plus in the near future and was looking for some feedback. Are there any better options available? The budget is around €2000 euro. I'm mainly after a basic VNA and SA with the option for EMI pre-compliance testing. This doesn't have to be one instrument, could be multiple. If you think the SSA is the best option, then please also give me a reply ;D

Many thanks!
AJ
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2628 on: November 20, 2025, 09:00:44 am »
Hi!

I'm planning to buy an SSA3021X-Plus in the near future and was looking for some feedback. Are there any better options available? The budget is around €2000 euro. I'm mainly after a basic VNA and SA with the option for EMI pre-compliance testing. This doesn't have to be one instrument, could be multiple. If you think the SSA is the best option, then please also give me a reply ;D

Many thanks!
SSA3000X Plus are on promo in the EU until years end with 2 free options if you purchase the SRF5030T near-field probe kit with a new analyzer:
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/siglent-care-for-your-emi-pre-compliance-tests-2/

Contact your supplier about the promo.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Offline Sorama

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2629 on: November 20, 2025, 09:31:49 am »
Hi!

I'm planning to buy an SSA3021X-Plus in the near future and was looking for some feedback. Are there any better options available? The budget is around €2000 euro. I'm mainly after a basic VNA and SA with the option for EMI pre-compliance testing. This doesn't have to be one instrument, could be multiple. If you think the SSA is the best option, then please also give me a reply ;D

Many thanks!

Have a look at the uni T UTS3021B.
 
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Offline Armin308

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2630 on: November 20, 2025, 06:43:03 pm »
Thanks!

I've looked around and it's cheaper to go for the SSA and Tekbox probes + preamp (TBPS01-TBWA2/20dB) than to go for the SSA + EMI bundle. Forgot to mention that I'm a hobbyist, so generating codes shouldn't be an issue :phew:

Maybe this is the wrong place to ask, but if I were to go for the SSA + Tekbox solution, should I get the 20db preamp package, or the one without a preamp? I know there is a built-in preamp in the SSA, but having an external to amplify the signal even further shouldn't be an issue? From what I've understood, I can compensate for the preamp in some menu somewhere? Any thoughts?
AJ
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2631 on: November 20, 2025, 07:04:24 pm »
...........
Maybe this is the wrong place to ask, but if I were to go for the SSA + Tekbox solution, should I get the 20db preamp package, or the one without a preamp? I know there is a built-in preamp in the SSA, but having an external to amplify the signal even further shouldn't be an issue? From what I've understood, I can compensate for the preamp in some menu somewhere? Any thoughts?
With the SSA range you should have more than enough sensitivity with the internal preamp.

Analyzers are sensitive beasts and after some experience you will see the auto-attenuation vary with settings yet displayed levels remain correct so you should always leave auto attenuation engaged so the analyzer can protect itself.
Play on the side of caution, get to know the SSA and enjoy the RF world.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2632 on: November 20, 2025, 08:19:21 pm »
Agree with Rob, this SA is sensitive enough for GP use without an additional preamp. Save some $ and use that to get some external attenuators!!

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
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Offline Armin308

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2633 on: November 21, 2025, 12:23:40 am »
...........
Maybe this is the wrong place to ask, but if I were to go for the SSA + Tekbox solution, should I get the 20db preamp package, or the one without a preamp? I know there is a built-in preamp in the SSA, but having an external to amplify the signal even further shouldn't be an issue? From what I've understood, I can compensate for the preamp in some menu somewhere? Any thoughts?
With the SSA range you should have more than enough sensitivity with the internal preamp.

Analyzers are sensitive beasts and after some experience you will see the auto-attenuation vary with settings yet displayed levels remain correct so you should always leave auto attenuation engaged so the analyzer can protect itself.
Play on the side of caution, get to know the SSA and enjoy the RF world.

Thanks for the tip, will do :-+
AJ
 

Offline Armin308

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2634 on: November 21, 2025, 12:38:42 am »
Agree with Rob, this SA is sensitive enough for GP use without an additional preamp. Save some $ and use that to get some external attenuators!!

Best

Thanks, would you say these are a good investment? Talking about the Tekbox TBAS3 3GHz 10W https://www.tekbox.com/product/tbas3-10w-n-attenuator-set/.
AJ
 

Offline mawyatt

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2635 on: November 21, 2025, 02:39:09 am »
Agree with Rob, this SA is sensitive enough for GP use without an additional preamp. Save some $ and use that to get some external attenuators!!

Best

Thanks, would you say these are a good investment? Talking about the Tekbox TBAS3 3GHz 10W https://www.tekbox.com/product/tbas3-10w-n-attenuator-set/.

Depends on what you expect to do, type "N" connectors or "SMA".

Best
Curiosity killed the cat, also depleted my wallet!
~Wyatt Labs by Mike~
 
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Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2636 on: November 21, 2025, 03:07:33 am »
Agree with Rob, this SA is sensitive enough for GP use without an additional preamp. Save some $ and use that to get some external attenuators!!

Best

Thanks, would you say these are a good investment? Talking about the Tekbox TBAS3 3GHz 10W https://www.tekbox.com/product/tbas3-10w-n-attenuator-set/.
Adapt to SMA is my advice.
Then you can get all manner of fittings and cabling for not much at all which are good enough for GP work.
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Offline S13

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2637 on: November 26, 2025, 05:22:57 pm »
I have been playing around with the Modulation Analyzer too.
Im working on a project with RF transmitter and receiver and 2FSK modulation, but first i wanted to figure out how the SSA3000XP Modulation Analyzer works. So i hooked it up to the SDG1000XP function gen and generated some test patterns at relative low frequency of 50MHz. Have to say, its quite nice to see the Modulation Analyzer in action!  :)

With the function gen, generating a PRBS-8 sequence on channel 2 at 500Kbps, and externally routing it to the modulation input. Channel1 performs the 2FSK modulation and uses the external modulation input as its data source. Output set to -10dBm.


The occupied bandwidth for this setup shows nicely on the SSA3000XP. Channel power -10dBm, spot on!  :)
And the Modulation Analyzer can lock on to the signal quite nicely, it even decodes and synchronizes to the PBRS-8 pattern. 




Moving to my own RF project however, im not getting such a clean result as with the function gen. So im trying to figure out what im doing wrong. The project contains a RF transmitter (TI CC110L) running at 868MHz and im measuring the output directly with the spectrum analyzer via a SMA connector on the PCB. The CC110L is running a test output sequence, generated by SmartRF Studio (its basically just random data). I can get it to work up to 250kbps, but not up to 500kbps. I think its just a limitation of SmartRF Studio or the CC-Debugger im using for the chip. Anyway, occupied bandwidth and channel power look fine (again -10dBm).


The constellation pattern however is not so clean anymore. Does anyone have a clue why this could be?
It still locks, and i can decode the (random) data. And i have fiddled a lot with the Filter Setup of the SSA3000XP to get it to improve, but this is about as good as i can get it for now:


What also puzzles me is the setting for "Points/Symbol". How does that work? It seems to influence the span of the demodulator? But if so, why not just call it span, instead of points/symbol? Maybe a manual for the Modulation Analyzer would be nice to have! I dont think Siglent makes one?
« Last Edit: November 26, 2025, 06:05:12 pm by S13 »
 

Offline vsilves

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2638 on: November 27, 2025, 02:50:54 am »
Nice signals.  I have very little experience with this, so take my comments at your own risk.

The symbol rate should be set to match exactly 250 ksps (not 249.94 ksps).  The TI CC110L seems to do 2(G)FSK where that Gaussian TX filter is clearly visible in your signal power envelope (i.e., all the side lobes are gone).  Having the TX apply a Gaussian filter reduces adjacent channel occupied bandwidth (benefit) at the cost of introducing controlled ISI (so the slightly worse eye diagram is expected I think).  The filter factor (alpha, beta, whatever) of the Gaussian filter looks pretty tight 0.2-0.3. Siglent defaults to 0.35 (which is what I used on my sound card experiments when generating signals). Needless to say, you have to go into the Filter Setup screen and select a matching Gaussian filter with the same alpha factor and length as the TX is using. Siglent uses number of symbols for the length of the filter, not samples, I learnt this the hard way, until I read the User Guide, which yes, has little more than this tidbit.  Selecting no filter, or a Root Raised Cosine, or a Raised Cosine filter on RX (Siglent) will not work (i.e., will degrade SNR, so effectively only work at low baud rates). I think those spikes in the power envelope are RX artifacts (not using a matched filter).

Now, for the SPS, you have to know how many samples per symbol the TX is utilizing, and in my limited experience the best setting in the Siglent device is exactly half.  Additionally the Siglent only supports even number of SPS, starting at 4 and going to 32 or 64 only.  So the TX must not use an odd number of samples per symbol (I tested that on various modulations).  Therefore, if the TX is using 16 SPS, I would select 8 SPS in the Siglent.  You are right that changing SPS seems to visually affect the analysis bandwidth, but that is only an artifact, in my opinion.  Again, with RX SPS set at half the TX SPS the analysis bandwidth looks just right and the EVM is minimal, in my tests.

My experiment using sound cards is a dead end for higher modulations as I found that sound cards not only have horrible jitter (much worse below 20KHz) but also allow frequent 180 degree phase jumps, which apparently cause no clicks are are within spec for audio, but wreak havoc when attempting higher modulations.  Next I was planning to generate arbitrary signals on SDG2042X and output that (limited by maximum individual signal length).  I had used the SDG modulation input for AM and FM but you gave me the idea of maybe use it for digital modulations also (thanks for that).

Best of luck figuring this out!
« Last Edit: November 27, 2025, 02:53:58 am by vsilves »
 
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Offline S13

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2639 on: November 27, 2025, 02:42:25 pm »
Thank you so much vsilves, your information has been helpful.
I can imagine using a soundcard has its limitations given the amount of control you have. Using that SDG2042X should make things way easier if you wish to scale up  :)


So, I think it is like you said, the Gaussian TX filter has an impact on the power envelope and also the constellation. The CC110L also seems to be a bit limited when it comes to higher baudrates. Might just be a consequence of using SmartRF Studio that doesnt optimize all registers perfectly. So i need to dive deeper in the register interface of the CC110L.
What you say about matching the symbol rate of the Spectrum Analyzer to the transmitter is correct, its just due to the way the CC110L works it is impossible to program exact baudrates and deviations. They are the result of some kind of integer division of the primary 26.000MHz clock. So when programming 250ksps, SmartRF Studio just rounds it to the nearest possible register value, in this case 249.49ksps. So i have to adjust the spectrum analyzer accordingly. 

The whole Filter setup is still a bit puzzling to me. I'll try to figure out what the transmitter is using at the moment, because that part is not clear to me. I came across this article from Keysight that explains which measurement filter you should select for a given transmit filter:
https://helpfiles.keysight.com/csg/89600B/Webhelp/Subsystems/digdemod/content/digdemod_about_filters.htm

So if i understand it correctly, in practice, the type of filter and Alpha/BT is just something you finetune (based on the baudrate) until you get the best constellation pattern and thus the optimal transmission results?


Today i tried the 4FSK modulation of the CC110L, keeping the baudrate fairly low:



This looks pretty good i'd say? This is with the Measurement Filter of the SSA3000XP set to Gauss, and Alpha/BT of 0.5. Filter length is set to 32 (changing makes no difference though...). Next step will be that i will use my own microcontroller to start generating the transmit data for the CC110L, so without the use of SmartRF studio and the CC Debugger. That way i can use a know data pattern (like PRBS) and control the speed way better. 

By the way, what Siglent User Guide are you referring to when you mentioned the issue with the Filter length?
 

Offline vsilves

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2640 on: November 27, 2025, 04:13:14 pm »
See user guide I use here: https://www.batronix.com/files/Siglent/Spectrum-Analyzer/SVA1000X/SVA1000X_QuickGuide_QG0701X_E02A.pdf 
Look at 5.2.1.5. Filter Setup section.  It mentions Nyquist and Sqrt Nyquist filters (which is what I used) but in UI they show as Raised Cosine (RC) and Root Raised Cosine (RRC), respectively. There is a small table showing what filter to select depending on the TX filter used. Looks like since your TX uses Gauss, on the Siglent SA you should select "None" for the measure filter and "Gauss" for the reference filter.  In my case my TX used RRC, so on the Siglent SA I selected "RRC" for the measure filter, and I was supposed to select "RC" for the reference filter but I had better results selecting "RRC".  My understanding is that RRC * RRC = RC so if both the TX and RX use RRC the total system filter is in fact RC.  This matches the info in the Keysight note.

For the alpha/beta factor I experimented with 100% synthetic QAM signals form QAM4 to QAM256, generating the baseband IQ signal, upsampling, upconverting to a carrier frequency, adding artificial SNR, dithering to minimize quantization bias, then quantizing to a WAV file in 8, 16, 24, 32, float, and doubles, at various sample rates, without transmission, then reading the WAV file and decoding the message very successfully.  My code chain added guards of various lengths on either side (to allow decoding of last few symbols due to edge effects), and a preamble: guard + preamble + message + guard.  Whatever alpha factor I chose in the TX had to be matched in the RX.  Not only that but the RRC introduces GD that had to be trimmed exactly by both TX and RX (where the GD = (len(RRC) - 1) // 2) where the length is in samples (not in symbols like Siglent), otherwise the sample selected to read the symbols would not align perfectly and all decoded symbols would be wrong. Also found that for odd SPS the offset for the optimum sample to read symbols at was 0, but for even SPS the optimum offset was 2. At least in 100% synthetic signals.  My preamble was a random but known sequence so the RX could de-scale the signal being quantized to a WAV file (otherwise the RX constellation would have a scale and offset problem).

The alpha factor, even with 100% synthetic signals, makes a huge difference, going from 100% decode on QAM-256, to not decode on QAM-4 if I changed the alpha factor (while keeping it the same on both synthetic TX and RX). I think this is because I fine tuned all the other values (guard length, preamble length, SPS, and number of positive lobes NPL for my RRC filter) for that one given alpha, and different alphas cause different ISI and edge effects. In the case of my RRC the length of my RRC was 2 * rrc_npl + 1 (where rrc_npl is the RRC number of positive lobes NPL, for which I settled on 5, other values drastically affected everything).  Conversely, the same NPL and ALPHA worked well for all baud rates, SPS, and WAV quantization.  Surprisingly quantizing WAV to 16 or even 8 bits had little effect (I can 100% decode QAM-256).

So I don't have the answer and need to experiment more but the filter parameters are critical and obviously if the RX does not know exact values would have to fiddle with them until RX is optimum, but start by selecting the correct measure and reference filter type, then only ALPHA and LENGTH of the filter are left to fiddle with.
« Last Edit: November 27, 2025, 04:15:11 pm by vsilves »
 

Offline S13

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2641 on: November 27, 2025, 10:40:23 pm »
You gained quite a bit of knowledge from your audio experiments with the different modulation types i see! Im still more of a rookie here when it comes to RF  ;)

I think you were trying to link to the full user guide, but you linked to the Quick Guide instead. No problems, i found the document and chapter you were referring to.
But the user guide is not of much help though... Yes, there is a table for what filter combination to use, identical to the one on the Keysight page.


Now, after reading parts of the datasheet for the CC110L, it seems that the only TX filter it has is gaussian, and that filter only applies to 2FSK (optionally). The 4FSK modulation doesn't have any filtering at all??? Also in the RX side, there is only an adjustable bandwidth filter (bandpass) to filter the incoming analog RF signal, but nothing in the digital domain of the demodulator. Soooo.... i guess we dont need to do filtering?
 

Offline vsilves

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2642 on: November 28, 2025, 05:02:09 am »
The CC110L seems to do "Modulation scheme: (G)MSK, 2(G)FSK, 4(G)FSK, ASK, OOK" with the G being optionally configurable via register settings, for both 2FSK and 4FSK.  In the screenshot you shared for 4FSK, the side lobes do look at least partially suppressed to me (Gaussian on?).  The CC110L appears to have a hardware Gaussian filter implementation with a fixed Beta 0.5. You do however choose the frequency deviation which determines the modulation index as (2 * Deviation / Data Rate), where data rate is in bits/sec, which is recommended to be kept between 0.5 and 1.0 for good performance.  Did you increase the frequency deviation for higher baud rates? Maybe that is the cause of no demod on Siglent at higher rates?  In my pure software 2FSK to 16FSK algorithms I chose a frequency deviation of symbol_rate / 2, which I think gives me a modulation index of 1 (where symbol_rate is in symbols/sec).

When setting your only RX configurable parameter, the RX bandwidth, it looks like the signal bandwidth is (2 x frequency_deviation + symbol_rate), so you need at least that, and you need a bit more to account for crystal differences between TX and RX, but not so much more that you lower your sensitivity.  The TX Gaussian filter narrows the bandwidth so the RX needs a bit less BW if on.

The full Siglent user guide at least shows what filters are expected to be selected and defines the filter length units, which is a bare minimum. Not expecting a full modulation analysis guide any time soon, if ever, but yes would be nice.

For me this is just a fun hobby. Still trying to visualize the intermediate signals to understand the effects of changing parameters on each type of modulation. Audio, even with its limitations, can handle lower order modulations well, specially with FEC (forward error correction), down to amazingly low SNR.  A while back I could not dream of seeing QAM64 on my Siglent and audio made it happen.  But now I need to dig deeper if I want to see QAM256.
« Last Edit: November 28, 2025, 05:05:59 am by vsilves »
 

Offline S13

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2643 on: November 28, 2025, 07:01:02 pm »
The CC110L seems to do "Modulation scheme: (G)MSK, 2(G)FSK, 4(G)FSK, ASK, OOK" with the G being optionally configurable via register settings, for both 2FSK and 4FSK. 

No that is not what i read in the datasheet. What i do read is:
Code: [Select]
CC110L supports 2-(G)FSK and 4-FSK modulationSo GFSK is just a filtered version of 2FSK. The 4FSK uses no filtering at all.

The internal register to select the modulation type reflects this:
Code: [Select]
Setting   Modulation format
0 (000)   2-FSK
1 (001)   GFSK
2 (010)   Reserved
3 (011)   OOK
4 (100)   4-FSK
5 (101)   Reserved
6 (110)   Reserved
7 (111)   Reserved

Maybe you are reading a different datasheet? I dont see anything about the gaussian filter properties in the datasheet either, so im not sure where you got the Beta of 0.5 from?

You do however choose the frequency deviation which determines the modulation index as (2 * Deviation / Data Rate), where data rate is in bits/sec, which is recommended to be kept between 0.5 and 1.0 for good performance.  Did you increase the frequency deviation for higher baud rates? Maybe that is the cause of no demod on Siglent at higher rates? 
Yes, i generally aim for a modulation index of 1 or higher.
But i think i have it figured out, with GFSK the chip can only go up to 250KBaud according to the datasheet. With 2FSK it'll do 500Kbaud, and with 4FSK it'll do 300Kbaud (=600kbit/s).
So if i want performance, i have to go without any filters. With the spectrum analyzer i'll just select whatever gives the best looking constellation diagram.

By the way, with the SSA3000XP, in the table that shows the symbol/error data, i assume that "FSK Error" is the same as "EVM" (Error Vector Magnitude)?



And another odd thing is the "Carrier Power". It says the signal in my previous measurements is at ~+26dBm, but in reality the transmitters are running at -10dBm. So why the discrepancy here? Or does that number reflect something else?
 

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2644 on: November 28, 2025, 07:19:58 pm »
The CC110L seems to do "Modulation scheme: (G)MSK, 2(G)FSK, 4(G)FSK, ASK, OOK" with the G being optionally configurable via register settings, for both 2FSK and 4FSK. 

No that is not what i read in the datasheet. What i do read is:
Code: [Select]
CC110L supports 2-(G)FSK and 4-FSK modulationSo GFSK is just a filtered version of 2FSK. The 4FSK uses no filtering at all.

The internal register to select the modulation type reflects this:
Code: [Select]
Setting   Modulation format
0 (000)   2-FSK
1 (001)   GFSK
2 (010)   Reserved
3 (011)   OOK
4 (100)   4-FSK
5 (101)   Reserved
6 (110)   Reserved
7 (111)   Reserved

Maybe you are reading a different datasheet? I dont see anything about the gaussian filter properties in the datasheet either, so im not sure where you got the Beta of 0.5 from?

You do however choose the frequency deviation which determines the modulation index as (2 * Deviation / Data Rate), where data rate is in bits/sec, which is recommended to be kept between 0.5 and 1.0 for good performance.  Did you increase the frequency deviation for higher baud rates? Maybe that is the cause of no demod on Siglent at higher rates? 
Yes, i generally aim for a modulation index of 1 or higher.
But i think i have it figured out, with GFSK the chip can only go up to 250KBaud according to the datasheet. With 2FSK it'll do 500Kbaud, and with 4FSK it'll do 300Kbaud (=600kbit/s).
So if i want performance, i have to go without any filters. With the spectrum analyzer i'll just select whatever gives the best looking constellation diagram.

By the way, with the SSA3000XP, in the table that shows the symbol/error data, i assume that "FSK Error" is the same as "EVM" (Error Vector Magnitude)?



And another odd thing is the "Carrier Power". It says the signal in my previous measurements is at ~+26dBm, but in reality the transmitters are running at -10dBm. So why the discrepancy here? Or does that number reflect something else?
Show us your Amplitude settings.
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Offline vsilves

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2645 on: November 28, 2025, 08:52:48 pm »
You are right, that GFSK is the only stand alone 2GFSK option, and the 4FSK has no Gaussian option.  For the fixed beta = 0.5 I just found this response from a representative linked below (not in the data sheet).

https://e2e.ti.com/support/wireless-connectivity/sub-1-ghz-group/sub-1-ghz/f/sub-1-ghz-forum/1161321/cc115l-gaussian-filter-bt-value-of-gfsk

Yes my interpretation is also that "FSK Error" is the same as "EVM".  This is the part I wish the manual explained a bit better.

Glad you figured out all the available options!
« Last Edit: November 28, 2025, 08:55:31 pm by vsilves »
 

Offline S13

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2646 on: November 29, 2025, 05:11:54 pm »
Show us your Amplitude settings.

well here you go:





Shouldn't carrier power be the same as channel power when doing modulation? At least i would expect it to be somewhere near the -10dBm mark...?


Yes my interpretation is also that "FSK Error" is the same as "EVM".  This is the part I wish the manual explained a bit better.
Ok at least good to know it is the same thing  :)
 

Offline vsilves

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2647 on: November 29, 2025, 07:19:39 pm »
Yes, that carrier power at +24dBm looks wrong, if the peak SG power was -10 dBm the integrated channel power should be somewhere between -10 dBm peak power and maybe up to 0 dBm, never + 24dBm, no matter how wide it is integrating, IMHO.

But you could try widening the window for power spectral density and see how high a value you get capturing most of the side lobes.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2025, 07:22:32 pm by vsilves »
 

Online tautech

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2648 on: November 29, 2025, 07:34:11 pm »
Show us your Amplitude settings.

well here you go:
............

No I meant from the Amplitude button back in Spectrum analyzer mode, not the modulation result.
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Offline S13

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Re: Siglent SSA3000X and SSA3000X-Plus Spectrum Analyzers
« Reply #2649 on: November 29, 2025, 09:15:08 pm »
Eh, why this is relevant? Doesn't the Demodulator mode use its own Amplitude settings?

The second picture from my previous post was taken in Spectrum Analyzer mode, with some of the amplitude settings shown on the Channel Pwr screen. As you can see the measured channel power is correct here: -10dBm. Exactly what is programmed on my function generator. So im not sure what you are looking for exactly?



 


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