Author Topic: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?  (Read 22326 times)

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Offline Per Hansson

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #50 on: November 06, 2021, 03:20:35 pm »
I had hoped I would not need to write out that I was kidding  :-DD just as the original poster of this thread did not point out that he is trolling  :popcorn:
 

Offline SymaxTopic starter

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #51 on: November 06, 2021, 03:45:29 pm »
I had hoped I would not need to write out that I was kidding  :-DD just as the original poster of this thread did not point out that he is trolling  :popcorn:

I'm not trolling.  I'm using this thread as research as to what to buy.  I might not buy right away, but I have some good ideas as to what to start with.
 

Offline IAmBack

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #52 on: November 06, 2021, 03:58:46 pm »
Well, 30k scope is not something good to "start with".
You can start with $3000 scope. After 2..3 years you can buy new one for $3k, and sell first one. After next three years you can buy third scope for 3k and amount of money you get for the first scope and so on.
Most probably you will get better scope in 10..12 years than the scope bought today for 30k... In a meantime You will collect experience with your tools.
My 3 cents.
 
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Offline MadTux

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #53 on: November 06, 2021, 05:34:37 pm »
Well, 30k scope is not something good to "start with".
You can start with $3000 scope. After 2..3 years you can buy new one for $3k, and sell first one. After next three years you can buy third scope for 3k and amount of money you get for the first scope and so on.
Most probably you will get better scope in 10..12 years than the scope bought today for 30k... In a meantime You will collect experience with your tools.
My 3 cents.
Exactly, new $30k scope now will be $3k scope in 10-15 years.
Probably picked quite a few $30k scopes/instruments for peanut price that way, Tek 7854/7904A with plugins each were about $20k list price, now a few $100s...
Same with high end DSOs, once the market is saturated with "cheap" high end Rigol/Sigilents, you probably can pick used 20GS/s Lecroy Wavepros and similar for less than $5k on ebay. That kind of price drop is already happening with late 1990s/early 2000s Tek scopes, remember when Tek TDS7404/7254 usually went above 5-10k$, now available sometimes for less than 1k$....
 
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Offline FlexibleMammoth

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #54 on: November 06, 2021, 05:52:46 pm »
Safety is definitely an important thing.  110V+ needs lots of safety.  Amps can kill.  I don't expect to work on anything with vacuum tubes.  Most of my electronics would involve transistors and newer electronics.

Good to see you are careful - please just remember that power electronics (e.g. SMPS) can also carry high DC voltages. :)

What's beneficial about active vs passive probes?  So far from the recommendations I'm reading in here, I'm leaning towards the SDS2104X Plus via Amazon.com.

Money-related answer first: most likely, you don't need active probe support in your scope.

Technical answer: Active probes contain active electronics (hence the name) and require external power to operate. With an active probe you can amplify incoming signals or reduce the load that your probe poses to the circuit. The probe power is provided by your scope or by a battery inside the probe, depending on the construction. If you have an active probe with a battery, you don't need active probe support in your scope, since the power comes from the battery. If you have active probe support in your scope, probes from the same manufacturer can be used without needing a battery.

Examples of active probes:
- Most high voltage differential probes are active, usually they have a 9V battery inside so you can use them with any scope. This is probably the thing you want.
- There are active high frequency low voltage probes (they exist both single-ended and differential) that are used for analyzing serial buses such as USB. These are special, you most likely don't need them right from the start. Also, your scope needs protocol trigger and decode functionality for the bus you are probing.
- There are active preamplifiers for measuring very small voltages (uV range) that are powered by your scope. Again, this is an advanced functionality that comes with its own limitations.


I'm considering messing with 15kV pole transformers too.  I know that it is important to wear thick rubber when messing with them.

EDIT: As correctly noted by Per Hansson, the 40kV probes made by Fluke are not CAT IV, but made for old CRT TVs etc. Don't touch a pole transformer with them, thats a dumb idea.

As I was apparently not allowed to have fun in this thread and since nobody else mentioned it from my skimming of the thread I just want to say that I don't think Fluke has any high voltage probes designed for CAT-III or CAT-IV use that a pole transformer surely qualifies for, plus how are you even gonna carry that heavy scope up the pole?
All their HV probes that I have seen are intended only to service CRT TV's in a CAT-I environment.

A lot of things go bang when you come too close to a 15kV rail. There are special probes to measure these kinds of voltages, which are usually 1:1000 or higher, e.g. from Fluke. They are physically long, so you don't have to come too close to the source. All probes have maximum voltage ratings which must not be exceeded and which get MUCH lower as frequency goes up! You can easily damage your equipment or kill yourself if you apply excessive voltage to an unsuitable probe, even if it says 100:1.

I am not making concrete product recommendations here, since you *really* need to know what you are doing when using these probes and have good chances of hurting yourself.

Hint: your standard HV differential probe for your oscilloscope will probably not cut it. Even the nicest probe from pico only goes to 7kV. Be careful.

Could a TS100 be considered ESD Safe?

That probably depends on the power supply you are using - I'd say generally no. My station has a socket in the back, where you can plug a 1MOhm resistor in series to ground. This way, the soldering iron provides a path for static charges to discharge without shorting things to ground. On the other hand: I have used it many times with hard grounding and did not destroy anything, but I figured I'd let you know.

I had hoped I would not need to write out that I was kidding  :-DD just as the original poster of this thread did not point out that he is trolling  :popcorn:

Can we stop making fun of people that got overly excited while window shopping but genuinely put an effort to learn? Also, deliberately giving bad advice is not funny. Shame on you.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2021, 04:05:25 pm by FlexibleMammoth »
 
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Online KE5FX

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #55 on: November 06, 2021, 06:13:04 pm »
Exactly, new $30k scope now will be $3k scope in 10-15 years.
Probably picked quite a few $30k scopes/instruments for peanut price that way, Tek 7854/7904A with plugins each were about $20k list price, now a few $100s...
Same with high end DSOs, once the market is saturated with "cheap" high end Rigol/Sigilents, you probably can pick used 20GS/s Lecroy Wavepros and similar for less than $5k on ebay. That kind of price drop is already happening with late 1990s/early 2000s Tek scopes, remember when Tek TDS7404/7254 usually went above 5-10k$, now available sometimes for less than 1k$....

Good point there.  I remember when the Tek DPOs came out in the 1999 timeframe, probably the first digital scopes that could legitimately be considered a replacement for the best analog scopes.  I reeeeeeeally wanted a TDS 784D, but they cost about $25K.  I 'settled' for a TDS 3034 portable, and never had any reason to second-guess that choice.  The 3034 was fine -- more than 'fine', in fact, since the high-end 784D didn't even support roll mode.  :palm:  It was that trivial point that pulled me back from the brink of an expensive mistake.

These days a 784D is about $500 on eBay, and (oddly enough) so is the 3034.  It would have been a poor financial decision and a poor technical one to splurge on the 784D, even at the peak of the dot-com madness.  The scenario here sounds all too familiar.
 

Offline Trader

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #56 on: November 06, 2021, 06:14:11 pm »
Exactly, new $30k scope now will be $3k scope in 10-15 years.

I guess this won't happen anymore like the 70's, 80's devices.

Rigol DS1054Z was released 7+ years ago, and the price is basically the same.

Brymen 869s, Fluke 87V / 289, has more than 10 years, and it's expensive than before.

Keysight appears just changed the color and name of Agilent instruments, the design is basically the same, no changes. e.g: the Keysight 3458A (8 1/2 DMM) is the same design since 1989, but expensive.

I think the best brand instruments are keeping almost the same price since 2000's.
« Last Edit: November 06, 2021, 06:18:07 pm by Trader »
 

Offline MadTux

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #57 on: November 06, 2021, 07:25:15 pm »
Rigol DS1054Z is just bottom line cheap, that's why price keeps constant.
If a used 10/20/50MHz analog scope for $20-$100 doesn't do it for you, next step is cheapest usable DRO, which likely is Rigol DS1054Z, new maybe $400, used working $200-$300, broken 50-100$. Guess quite a few end in dumpster, because it's not viable to repair or sell, so constant demand at low price.

Same with quality handheld DMMs. After 10-20years of daily use by electrician/service guy, they are so beaten up, that you'll hardly get much money for them, even when working, so constant demand at constant price.

8 1/2 DMM are low demand, high price items, especially if working.
Can't beat physics, so 8 1/2 no bullshit digits are still high end today, that needs quality, selected components.....
Thereby constant high price. Also lots of people want them and 3458A isn't excatly known for high reliability (U180 ;D), that what keeps the price up
 

Offline IAmBack

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #58 on: November 07, 2021, 05:21:13 pm »
Exactly, new $30k scope now will be $3k scope in 10-15 years.

I guess this won't happen anymore like the 70's, 80's devices.

Rigol DS1054Z was released 7+ years ago, and the price is basically the same.

Brymen 869s, Fluke 87V / 289, has more than 10 years, and it's expensive than before.

Keysight appears just changed the color and name of Agilent instruments, the design is basically the same, no changes. e.g: the Keysight 3458A (8 1/2 DMM) is the same design since 1989, but expensive.

I think the best brand instruments are keeping almost the same price since 2000's.
1054z costs the same, despite of inflation. Also, there are a few other tools that are approaching 1054's features with smaller price.
Otoh, how much was 500/350M 4ch scope 7 years ago? If tools like 1054 have established it's long-term price point, more expensive tools (like 30k scope) will probably cost less.
 

Online nctnico

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #59 on: November 07, 2021, 09:28:09 pm »
But still, who would buy a Rigol DS1054Z (which isn't even the best buy for the money it costs nowadays) if they have budget to spend 20 times more? $30k is a bit much to spend on an oscilloscope but $5k to $10k buys you something nice from an A-brand with big screen and a well polished user interface.

You can always reason a Fiat Panda (or any other small & cheap car) gets you from A to B but a BMW or Mercedes will do that while offering much more comfort so the trip is much less tiresome. So if you have the money, why not treat yourself with a bit of comfort?
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 07:51:20 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Offline kcbrown

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #60 on: November 07, 2021, 09:58:22 pm »
I have the EEVBlog 121GW multimeter so a decent enough multimeter.  No power supply.  Only a basic solder station, but I do have a PineCil TS100 clone on order with a full complement of replaceable tips.

OK, so essentially, you're just starting out.

Quote
As long as the hardware of the basic model has the "best" hardware and software options can be added on later I'm OK with that option.  And I understand that with all forms of electronics, the "best" is only the best at that point in time and electronics is an ever evolving target.

You've given a general idea of what you're going to be doing but haven't given specifics.  That tells me that you're basically just starting out.  There are many excellent general purpose scopes on the market for far below your $30K budget, as others have mentioned.

I understand the sentiment behind your question.  You want something that you'll never have to replace due to exceeding its capabilities, and thus which will meet every requirement you might ever have in the future.

There's likely no such thing.


Firstly, unlike scopes of the past that supplied schematics, and which used off-the-shelf "jellybean" parts exclusively, today's scopes throughout the range are highly proprietary things, and make use of many special-purpose parts.  Oddly enough, most (the new Rigol scopes are an exception) of the Chinese scopes (and the Instek scopes, which are from Taiwan) are the ones that, from a hardware standpoint, are the most maintainable in that respect, because they use FPGAs for the heavy lifting, and those are in principle obtainable, though whether they'll be obtainable at the point you'd need to repair your scope is highly questionable.

The more expensive and more capable the scope, the more likely it is to use custom ASICs, and those are unobtainium.  Some lines are built like that all the way down to the low end, such as the Keysight line.

Secondly, modern scopes are more like computers than anything else.  The real magic is in the firmware.  If your flash chip goes south, you'll somehow need to be able to flash a replacement, which means you'll need the flash image from the original.

On the flip side, however, modern manufacturing techniques result in hardware that tends to be very stable and reliable as long as you treat it properly, so it's rare that something goes wrong and when it does, it's often in the front-end or in something that by its nature has a limited life, like the flash chip.  The bottom line here is that the long term viability of modern scopes has more to do with changes in the nature of what you're doing than it does with the reliability of the hardware.

Now, one of the obvious things about scopes is that their capabilities for the price have evolved massively over time, particularly for those scopes that can be "hacked".  You can now lay hands on a scope that's capable of 500 MHz bandwidth and is very good for small signals, has numerous protocol decoding options, has digital and analog inputs, has a decent AWG, etc., for less than $1500 (the Siglent SDS2104X+).  Similar capabilities with a higher sample rate but noisier front-end can be had in the Rigol MSO5074.  Such capability for less than $10K or so was unheard of only a few years ago.  Another scope to take a hard look at is the Instek MSO-2204EA (https://www.tequipment.net/Instek/MSO-2204EA/Mixed-Signal-Oscilloscopes-(MSO)/).  While its raw capabilities are less than the other two scopes mentioned above, it has a very fast user interface and very few, if any, bugs.


What this trend in capability over time means is that you're far better off buying something inexpensive and highly capable, like the Siglent SDS2104X+, and growing your understanding of how to do things properly (such as high-frequency probing) as well as learning through experience the sorts of problems you'll find yourself troubleshooting, before going further.  The longer you end up using your inexpensive but highly capable scope, the more capability for the price you'll be able to get at whatever point you end up outgrowing the capabilities of your first scope.


And an additional point: just because you've outgrown your first scope for some of the things you do doesn't mean it won't be useful for those things you had already been doing with it.  It'll continue to be useful for those things.


Quote
What's beneficial about active vs passive probes?  So far from the recommendations I'm reading in here, I'm leaning towards the SDS2104X Plus via Amazon.com.

That would certainly be a good choice for someone in your position.  You're unlikely to exceed its capabilities for quite some time, if ever.

Note that modern high-speed digital buses for peripherals and the like are so fast that you need specialized equipment just to deal with them.  The frequencies are so high that the probing techniques are very demanding, and making sense of the data would require a decoder that few scopes have.  Keysight, for instance, sells such scopes but they are quite pricey.  But how likely is it that you'll need to be able to see the signals over such a bus?  My suspicion is that it's quite low.  You'd have to be building something that needs a bus that fast, at which point you'd be designing boards with length-matched differential pair signal lines, proper ground plane layout in a multilayer board, proper signal line impedance, etc.  This is all very advanced stuff, and (I expect) demands proper simulation capability just for the design phase, which is of course very expensive (see, e.g., Cadence, Altium, etc.).

You have the same problems with microwave RF, for the same reasons.  Check out Shahriar's Youtube channel for some great videos on the equipment, design issues, etc., that are involved with signals at those frequencies: https://www.youtube.com/c/Thesignalpath.  He's also on Odysee: https://odysee.com/@TheSignalPath:d


Most of the digital buses you're likely to use in practice with, e.g., microcontrollers and such, are much more modest and easily handled by the scopes I mentioned above.  I'm talking about buses like i2c, SPI, etc.

The point here is that once you get to the point where you'd need the kind of equipment to deal with gigahertz frequency signals in the time domain (frequency domain is a different thing, and spectrum analyzers that can handle that are less than $3k these days), it's likely that you'll no longer be talking about hobbyist level engagement, but rather commercial level engagement, at which point you'll have a business with the necessary resources to acquire the needed equipment and software, or you'll farm out the work to a business with the right capabilities.


Honestly, there's so much to learn in the world of electronics that you can spend a lifetime without ever needing to go much above 100 MHz, much less into the gigahertz range.  So I have to echo the sentiments of others here: start with something inexpensive but highly capable (like the Siglent you're leaning towards, a scope I have myself and like quite a lot), and build your knowledge with it.  What you learn and experience will ultimately direct your purchases from there.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 07:26:26 pm by kcbrown »
 
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Offline 1audio

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #61 on: November 08, 2021, 03:31:07 am »
In my experiece past a certain $$ level instruments start getting really specialized. I have a DSA7200, $30K+ new that is almost useless except for specifics of very high speed signal analysis. The same can be said for many of the most expensive instruments. 30+ years ago the same situation would have lead to a Tek 7000 + an assortment of plugins that can address almost any situation. However years of experiece would be necessary to get utility from that collection.

Modular scopes like the Tek 7K don't really exist as products anymore. There is not much you could not troubleshoot with a Siglent or Rigol midrange scope. And if you do need more it would probably a very specialized instrument. in fact renting when you need it might make more sense. it would not be your problem to maintain it or replace it once obsolete.

Working on High voltage power requires lots of special stuff and training. You do not connect a general purpose scope even with special probes casually to the primary of a 15K distribution transformer. Use the budget for the specific tools designed for that application. You stand a much better chance of living to see tomorrow.

 

Online Doctorandus_P

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #62 on: November 08, 2021, 11:32:48 am »
I agree with the others here.
For between EUR 500 and EUR1200 you have a scope that exceeds what beginners can make use of for many years to come.

Beginners are also relatively likely to *&^%$#@! and damage a scope beyond repair. Something like the Siglent or Rigol (I prefer Siglent) is still easy to replace if it falls of your balcony and a truck drives over it.

Scopes above EUR 5000 are not "general purpose scopes" anymore. Buying those without having a clear idea of what you want to use them for and doing some thorough research beforehand is bordering on insanity.

What does make sense to me if you do a bit of research to compare a EUR 20.000 scope with a < EUR 2000 scope and make sure they have a very similar user interface, and then buy the cheap one. If it's not enough then you can easily sell it and buy the other one, but it's more likely that won't happen for 10+ years.
 

Offline FlexibleMammoth

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #63 on: November 08, 2021, 02:09:56 pm »
An Isolation transformer is no substitute for training, (...)

I've decided to word this post better, since I feel it does not do a good job to convey the purpose and dangers of isolation transformers (and also because I got curious and wanted to know more). I invite others to improve this post, if something is wrong, missing or inaccurate, I'll add that information.

Generally, the mechansim by which you receive an electric shock is by touching a potential difference that exceeds safe limits. This "safe limit" is usually lower for AC than for DC, and depends on additional factors. For example, children touching stuff and wet environments (e.g. bathroom) have lower safe limits.
   a) Probably the most common way to receive a shock is touching a single "hot" point, i.e. one that is above the safe limit. Current then flows from that point through your body to ground, and via the ground back to neutral, which completes the circuit.
        -> Partially mitigated by the mechanisms discussed below.
   b) Another possibility is touching both live (L) and neutral (N) wires at the same time, at which point current flows directly from L through your body to N.
        -> Not prevented by the mechanisms discussed below.
   c) Shocks from other sources, such as capacitors, large battery banks etc.
        -> Out of scope of this post - look at isolation and discharging techniques.

Now that we have established what can go wrong, let's look at potential solutions:
 
A RCD (residual current device) is a safety breaker that  is designed to protect you from fault currents that flow through your body to ground. It constantly monitors the difference between the current flowing in the L and N lines. Once that difference exceeds a certain level (e.g. 10mA, but there are also 20mA and 30mA models) for a certain time, that means current is getting lost somewhere, usually due to a fault in a device or you touching a hot wire. The RCD will then interrupt the lines to protect the victim from receiving a continuous shock.

This hurts really bad, but in most cases (!) will not kill you.


An isolation transformer is a 1:1 transformer that provides galvanic isolation from the mains live (L) and neutral (N) wires as well as interrupt the ground connection (depends on construction - see reply below). In terms of safety, if you only touch one of the transformer outputs, it is not possible to complete a circuit and you will not receive a shock.

That sounds nice, until you realize there is plenty opportunity for you to ground the device under test (DUT) again: your oscilloscope ground lead is grounded. Your PC's USB ground is grounded. Nearby chassis of measurement tools are grounded. Once you accidentally ground your DUT again, other points may be live with respect to that new ground point. That may or may not be dangerous, depending on where you placed the new ground point.

What is worse: now your RCD no longer protects you. If you now touch a hot point inside the DUT, current will flow from that point through your body to ground, and back into the DUT via the new ground point. From there, it makes its way via the N back to the transformer, which completes the circuit. This current flows through the secondary winding, which means incoming and outgoing current is the same both on primary and secondary side. As a result, the RCD only sees IL = IN and thinks all is well, while you are getting shocked.

This is what ntnico refers to when he says:
No, buy CAT rated differential probes. Isolation transformers are death traps in untrained hands.

Isolation Transform for the DUT and Differential Probes for the Scope.
No isolation transformer but get a low current GFI and keep the DUT grounded. There are a gazillion ways in which the DUT can become grounded again when using an isolation transformer. In order to use an isolation transformer you need to have proper training AND a workbench which is setup for measuring floating DUTs. But in the end an isolation transformer is a crutch from times when differential probes where horribly expensive and the entire chassis of a device could be connected to mains directly.

Now to the benefits of an isolation transformer: When operated correctly, an isolation transformer prevents single (!) errors on your side, such as:
Reaching across the bench and brushing against the DUT, poking your fingers where you shouldn’t have because you were sure your DUT is off, slipping with your probes, making a dumb mistake because you’re tired etc.

Whether you are capable of guaranteeing that this is the case every single day with no exceptions in your lab is a question only you can answer. As such, your personal safety is your responsibility.


Finally, for some measurements it is a good idea to step away from the DUT and all connected instruments when performing the measurement. This means setting up everything before turning on the power and no handheld measurements.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 03:13:35 pm by FlexibleMammoth »
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #64 on: November 08, 2021, 02:33:28 pm »
An isolation transformer is a 1:1 transformer that provides galvanic isolation from the mains live (L) and neutral (N) wires as well as interrupt the ground connection. The idea is that if you only touch one of the transformer outputs, it is not possible to complete a circuit and you will not receive a shock.

Isolation transformers, as they typically exist and are used, do not interrupt the ground connection where they have ground pins on their cords and outlets.  Under certain conditions, you may want to do this with an adapter. Earlier versions often were only two pronged and didn't have any ground connections--they were developed for the shock hazard reason that you state, which was extreme because TVs at the time often had a 'live' metal chassis internally.

Quote
That sounds nice, until you realize there is plenty opportunity for you to ground the device under test (DUT) again: your oscilloscope ground lead is grounded. Your PC's USB ground is grounded. Nearby chassis of measurement tools are grounded. Once you accidentally ground your DUT again, other points may be live with respect to that new ground point. That may or may not be dangerous, depending on where you placed the new ground point.

One of the main reasons to use an isolation transformer is so that you can deliberately ground a point on the circuit, usually one that isn't grounded in the normal configuration, so as to make certain measurements.

Protection against shock hazard is a mixed bag.  While one or the other may be better for some situations, neither isolation transformers nor RCDs can protect you from all shock hazards, and in modern electronics these unmitigable types of hazards are very common.  I recommend paying attention rather than relying on one or the other safety device.

Edit:  After more coffee, I noticed that this discussion is in a thread about a $30K oscilloscope which I had presumed was sarcasm or trolling or both.  How did that happen?  :-/O
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 03:25:15 pm by bdunham7 »
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Offline KaneTW

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #65 on: November 08, 2021, 02:59:52 pm »
Coming back to the topic, my first scope was an RTB2004 fully optioned. I paid about 4.5k at the time since I needed a scope asap and it was in between promos.

Pretty happy with it, although nowadays I'm starting to outgrow it.
 

Offline Jan Audio

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #66 on: November 08, 2021, 03:19:11 pm »
Once you have something the fun is gone.
 

Offline bdunham7

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #67 on: November 08, 2021, 03:30:14 pm »
I'm not trolling.  I'm using this thread as research as to what to buy.  I might not buy right away, but I have some good ideas as to what to start with.

Of course you are, but perhaps it is friendly trolling?  The volume and apparent sincerity of the responses is hilarious.  The answer to your question is that you should get the Siglent SDS2104X promo combo and duct tape a half kilo gold bar to the back of it.  Maybe you can squeeze a few nice probes and a matching AWG into the budget.
A 3.5 digit 4.5 digit 5 digit 5.5 digit 6.5 digit 7.5 digit DMM is good enough for most people.
 
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Offline FlexibleMammoth

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #68 on: November 08, 2021, 03:30:30 pm »
Coming back to the topic, my first scope was an RTB2004 fully optioned. I paid about 4.5k at the time since I needed a scope asap and it was in between promos.

Pretty happy with it, although nowadays I'm starting to outgrow it.

I really really wanted that scope, back when there was the "all options for $2k" promo in the USA. I called R&S Germany and they really tried but didn't have the marketing budget to match the USA offer. In the end, I got an offer for a student price of 4.5k€, which was a good discount but still almost triple the USA price.

Felt kind of unfair, kept my old HMO1202.
 

Offline SymaxTopic starter

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #69 on: November 08, 2021, 06:52:08 pm »
I'm not trolling.  I'm using this thread as research as to what to buy.  I might not buy right away, but I have some good ideas as to what to start with.

Of course you are, but perhaps it is friendly trolling?  The volume and apparent sincerity of the responses is hilarious.  The answer to your question is that you should get the Siglent SDS2104X promo combo and duct tape a half kilo gold bar to the back of it.  Maybe you can squeeze a few nice probes and a matching AWG into the budget.

I've come to the conclusion that I should probably get a fully decked out SDS5104X (1 GHz, 4 CH).  Totally decked out I saw the cost is $11,308.00.  If there are options I should unselect that I could "hack" I'd be interested in hearing about it.
 

Online tautech

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #70 on: November 08, 2021, 06:56:54 pm »
I'm not trolling.  I'm using this thread as research as to what to buy.  I might not buy right away, but I have some good ideas as to what to start with.

Of course you are, but perhaps it is friendly trolling?  The volume and apparent sincerity of the responses is hilarious.  The answer to your question is that you should get the Siglent SDS2104X promo combo and duct tape a half kilo gold bar to the back of it.  Maybe you can squeeze a few nice probes and a matching AWG into the budget.

I've come to the conclusion that I should probably get a fully decked out SDS5104X (1 GHz, 4 CH).  Totally decked out I saw the cost is $11,308.00.  If there are options I should unselect that I could "hack" I'd be interested in hearing about it.
You need study this thread:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds5000x-feedback/

SDS2000X Plus is a more polished model range albeit not as capable as the 5000X range for higher BW or if you need active probe support.
Avid Rabid Hobbyist.
Some stuff seen @ Siglent HQ cannot be shared.
 
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Online tv84

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #71 on: November 08, 2021, 07:16:35 pm »
I've come to the conclusion that I should probably get a fully decked out SDS5104X (1 GHz, 4 CH).

Did you have an epiphany? Or did I miss an episode? The biggest experts here have been lowering the bar and you "came to the conclusion"...  :palm:

If the goal is to spend the money, I can get you a MSO5000 for 30k€ fully licensed.
 
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Offline kcbrown

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #72 on: November 08, 2021, 07:22:44 pm »
I've come to the conclusion that I should probably get a fully decked out SDS5104X (1 GHz, 4 CH).  Totally decked out I saw the cost is $11,308.00.  If there are options I should unselect that I could "hack" I'd be interested in hearing about it.

One question: why?  What's your specific justification for that, particularly in light of the logic I presented previously?

For that kind of money, you could get multiple different instruments that when put together give you far more capability.


What's your real reason for being interested in such an expensive piece of test equipment?


Let me put it this way: if you buy something inexpensive and capable (like the SDS2104X+), you can always buy something that meets your newly discovered requirements at the point in time you discover them, because you'll have saved the vast majority of your funds.  If you buy something in the $10K+ price range then you'll almost certainly be unable to recover most of it, and you'll have that much less in the way of funds to spend on equipment that covers any new requirements you end up with.

But hey, if you're truly intent on blowing your wad of cash, here you go: https://saving.em.keysight.com/en/used/oscilloscopes/msos604a-e185152669471
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 07:42:46 pm by kcbrown »
 

Online tautech

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #73 on: November 08, 2021, 07:27:20 pm »
AFAICT Symax is still getting his head around scopes recommended for the price they are might not be a capable as he thinks but of course we know a different story. Anyways, his $ his choice.  :popcorn:
« Last Edit: November 08, 2021, 07:41:44 pm by tautech »
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Offline kcbrown

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Re: What is the "best" Oscilliscope that I can get for $30,000?
« Reply #74 on: November 08, 2021, 07:46:41 pm »
AFAICK Symax is still getting his head around scopes recommended for the price they are might not be a capable as he thinks but of course we know a different story.

I think it's even worse than that.  I'd wager he doesn't even have any idea what capabilities he'll need or even actually want.  What he has on his bench right now suggests a rank beginner to me.  That's basically what I am, frankly, and though I am fortunate enough that I could afford equipment in the price range he's talking about, and although I sometimes salivate over equipment like that, I'm also practical enough to know that I'm likely to use only a fraction of the total capability of even instruments like the SDS2104X+.


Quote
Anyways, his $ his choice.  :popcorn:

Yep.  Maybe he has a very limited amount of time left on this earth and wants to experience using the best things he can lay his hands on.  And if that's the case, well, I can't fault him for it.
 


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