EEVblog #751 - How To Debunk A Product (The Batteriser)

[steverino]

Notwithstanding the engineering flaws and endless excuses, Boob has astounded me with his complete disregard for reality - even when it's put on the table in front of him.

Truth seems to have lost all meaning in the current world.

[Blocco]

Thanks again for supporting our campaign and making it such a success! You’ve helped us make history and get this groundbreaking technology out to the world.

The sun always shines on Planet Bob

Not content with claiming "success" and "groundbreaking technology" they've also made history!

Has this man no integrity?

[SL4P]

Thanks again for supporting our campaign and making it such a success! You’ve helped us make history and get this groundbreaking technology out to the world.

The sun always shines on Planet Bob
Not content with claiming "success" and "groundbreaking technology" they've also made history!
Has this man no integrity?

California... chances are a boost with artificial stimulants?

[djos]

With regard to the 'flimsy' construction of the BatterPoo

Chaps, can we please stop calling it "BatterPoo"?

It's makes us sound like a bunch of 16 year old keyboard warriors instead of a bunch of intelligent, mostly professionals, critically examining a flawed product using logic and hard data.

Being juvenile about it gives others reason to discount us as a bunch of immature children.

[ez24]

Bob can make the claim that his Bats save the equipment they are used in.  If a toy runs less time on the Bats then the device has less wear on it.  So maybe they are worth it?  After all the toy is worth more than the battery.  Great sales pitch (hint hint).

[Delta]

Bob can make the claim that his Bats save the equipment they are used in.  If a toy runs less time on the Bats then the device has less wear on it.  So maybe they are worth it?  After all the toy is worth more than the battery.  Great sales pitch (hint hint).

That's a great point!  The LEDs and drivers in torches will also have an increased working live due the the Batteryiseroos limiting the current they can draw...

Also, people will be less likely to suffer hearing damage as they will not be able to listen to their MP3 players for as long.

[LabSpokane]

"In some remote cases, these guards can stop the Batteroo top spring contact to not make connection with the positive contact of the battery-operated device. As we identify these devices, we are going to have communication with their manufacturers to improve on their design parameters."

That's the funniest thing I've read all week - I wonder if it's  bullshit or self-delusion?

I can hardly wait until Bros. Roohparvar tell battery manufacturers that they must adjust the agreed sizes of all primary cells in order to accommodate the extra length of the sleeve.   

[SL4P]

With regard to the 'flimsy' construction of the BatterPoo

Chaps, can we please stop calling it "BatterPoo"?

It's makes us sound like a bunch of 16 year old keyboard warriors instead of a bunch of intelligent, mostly professionals, critically examining a flawed product using logic and hard data.
Being juvenile about it gives others reason to discount us as a bunch of immature children.

We're waaaay past that point.
That's like rolling back 18 months, and politely asking Bob & family to come good on their IGG promises.
Neither will have any effect.

[djos]

We're waaaay past that point.
That's like rolling back 18 months, and politely asking Bob & family to come good on their IGG promises.
Neither will have any effect.

Lol, fair play.

[EEVblog]

"In some remote cases, these guards can stop the Batteroo top spring contact to not make connection with the positive contact of the battery-operated device. As we identify these devices, we are going to have communication with their manufacturers to improve on their design parameters."

That's the funniest thing I've read all week - I wonder if it's  bullshit or self-delusion?

Are they mutually exclusive?

[EEVblog]

"In some remote cases, these guards can stop the Batteroo top spring contact to not make connection with the positive contact of the battery-operated device. As we identify these devices, we are going to have communication with their manufacturers to improve on their design parameters."

That's the funniest thing I've read all week - I wonder if it's  bullshit or self-delusion?

It's political.
By making such a statement, he pushes responsibility onto the manufacturers.  When the manufacturers do nothing about it, the public won't blame Batteroo - whether or not Batteroo actually approach any manufacturers.

'The manufacturers' could simply integrate Batteroo's groundbraking circuit on their own PCB, so no one has to hassle with flimsy sleeves, because it's already built in the device. How cool would that be!

The irony is they already do. It's called a DC-DC converter.

[Delta]

The irony is they already do. It's called a DC-DC converter.

Did Santa not bring you a sarcasm detector Dave?

[Halcyon]

Bob can make the claim that his Bats save the equipment they are used in.  If a toy runs less time on the Bats then the device has less wear on it.  So maybe they are worth it?  After all the toy is worth more than the battery.  Great sales pitch (hint hint).

That's a great point!  The LEDs and drivers in torches will also have an increased working live due the the Batteryiseroos limiting the current they can draw...

Also, people will be less likely to suffer hearing damage as they will not be able to listen to their MP3 players for as long.

I should start using Ethanol blended fuel in my car instead of 'premium' because it achieves far less kilometers per tank so therefore reduces wear on my tyres plus it'll cost me more in the long run so I'll drive less in order to cut down overall costs ;-)

[Kjetil]

...
Could be still faked, e.g. discharge the battery without the sleeve, then close the blister pack carefully. Would get a lot more difficult, if the battery open loop voltage are measured at the beginning of the test on video (I really should have done this), but you could still fake a battery, or maybe use a strong magnet to slow down the train. The only way to be sure are independent tests with the same product. That's the reason I posted the exact model I used, both for the train and for the battery brand. I encourage everyone who likes trains and has a AAA Batteroo sleeve, to buy this train (might be a nice present for little kids, though a bit late for xmas), or any other toys with motors, result will probably be the same, and repeat the test.

Thanks for doing the test.

Another issue could be that the train was modified during shots, for example by increasing the load/burning off power in one of the tests. That wouldn't be easily visible during a test, especially not on the big blue train model.

[Fungus]

I dislike the lack of transparency with the "Revive" version of the train test.

I'm very impressed how non-techie Mr. 'Off The Grid' Wayne has put together a massive, technical "Refute EEVBLOG at all costs" video in such a short time. At Christmas, too!

Is this really yhr same guy who couldn't leave a torch to run out?

I prefer to see the full data not "I won't bore you with the technical stuff which is probably too hard for you".

I don't think there's any doubt now that Wayne==Batteroo.

[FrankBuss]

I dislike the lack of transparency with the "Revive" version of the train test.

I'm very impressed how non-techie Mr. 'Off The Grid' Wayne has put together a massive, technical "Refute EEVBLOG at all costs" video in such a short time. At Christmas, too!

He didn't do it, he wrote this in his Facebook posting, too. Most likely Batteroo sent him the video. BTW, if you missed it, I added the lap times now for my video, see the Batteroo testing thread here:

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/projects/batteroo-testing/msg1098831/#msg1098831

[Fungus]

I'm very impressed how non-techie Mr. 'Off The Grid' Wayne has put together a massive, technical "Refute EEVBLOG at all costs" video in such a short time. At Christmas, too!

He didn't do it, he wrote this in his Facebook posting, too. Most likely Batteroo sent him the video.

Somebody else didn't get a sarcasm detector for Xmas.

[quad]

If I understand this right, the Batterisers are making the batteries get so hot you can't touch them?

[meeder]

If I understand this right, the Batterisers are making the batteries get so hot you can't touch them?

How would the batteriser heat the batteries? I suspect something shorted out in those LED lights.

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[Scottjd]

If I understand this right, the Batterisers are making the batteries get so hot you can't touch them?

How would the batteriser heat the batteries? I suspect something shorted out in those LED lights.

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It's more the constant current LED tourches and I will guess the components on the batter??? (What ever it called now) over heat. And that's it's a steal strip probably acting some as a heat sync, on a steal battery, in a small tube probably aluminum for the flashlight and no way to let the heat disapate. 
Now some say if you have an led flashlight that's PWM then it may be ok to use with this Thor of flashlight. But even some led lights that are PWM on lower levels but still might be direct current when its on high or turbo. The real cheap ones will probably be ok and PWM on all levels, but if someone is complaining about battery life on the flashlight then it's probably a decent constant current flashlight like the ones I build that draw 3.2A when it's in high and are constant current on all levels.
Either that or they use really cheap batteries.

[meeder]

Yes but that person is talking about led candles. Normal led candles work ages on batteries.
Something is wrong there.

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[PeterL]

If I understand this right, the Batterisers are making the batteries get so hot you can't touch them?

How would the batteriser heat the batteries? I suspect something shorted out in those LED lights.

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Could also be a short in the batteriser.
But my guess is that these lights draw a current that is on the edge of what the batteriser can do, and the batteriser thus has (extra)poor efficiency, and high losses. Due to the nature of the led light it needs a contstant power, and thus the battery needs to deliver even more power just to overcome the losses in the batteriser. And  of course the batteriser itself is producing heat due to the losses.
Also the the current drawn from the battery is pwm'd by the batteriser, which gives higher stresses on the ESR and therefore more selfheating of the battery.
It's just a thought, but I think it's an interesting case to test.

[Muttley Snickers]

Somebody should probably light a candle in memory of Batteroo's reputable name.   

Preemptive post, somebody might need it.
https://www.productsafety.gov.au/recalls 

[SL4P]

If I understand this right, the Batterisers are making the batteries get so hot you can't touch them?

Now there's an opportunity for an impartial non-techie...
Let the batteroo get hot in some innocuous application, and effectively do a 'Note 7'...
The insurance payout for almost anything will be well worth it.

That is of course if Boob has liability insurance.

[sync]

How would the batteriser heat the batteries? I suspect something shorted out in those LED lights.

Could be the case. The batteriser sleeve is connected to the negative battery terminal. The case of an alkaline battery is positive. Of course this problem is not limited to LED lights.