Tariffs

[Zero999]

Tariffs are not the answer - although I think that is known already.  You need an industrial strategy.  Whilst this work does involve a lot of labour, look at how much is automated, and how much effort is spent on optimising the production flow.  There are very skilled engineers and production managers working here.  I dare say most companies, regardless of whether they are American or not, are not working at this level.  And this is just one factory producing one small product - from a company that, 14-ish years ago, was producing replacement laptop batteries.  China isn't immoral or wrong in how they behave.  They are simply very, very good at what they do.  And they are getting better every day.

There's no will in the US to do any of that. Indeed, the reverse has been the case. Rather than invest in automation, the policy has been to use cheap foreign labour, either by offshoring, or mass immigration from low wage economies. Policies aimed at reducing emissions, simply move manufacturing, along with emissions abroad.

It's not just labour, but skills. China is no longer has the cheapest labour, but Western companies still use them for manufacturing because they have the skills, which have been lost from the West many years ago.

Taxes have their place and tariffs are just one of them, but the way the current administration are implanting them is wrong and won't have the intended effect.

[tggzzz]

Tariffs are not the answer - although I think that is known already.  You need an industrial strategy.  Whilst this work does involve a lot of labour, look at how much is automated, and how much effort is spent on optimising the production flow.  There are very skilled engineers and production managers working here.  I dare say most companies, regardless of whether they are American or not, are not working at this level.  And this is just one factory producing one small product - from a company that, 14-ish years ago, was producing replacement laptop batteries.  China isn't immoral or wrong in how they behave.  They are simply very, very good at what they do.  And they are getting better every day.

There's no will in the US to do any of that. Indeed, the reverse has been the case. Rather than invest in automation, the policy has been to use cheap foreign labour, either by offshoring, or mass immigration from low wage economies. Policies aimed at reducing emissions, simply move manufacturing, along with emissions abroad.

It's not just labour, but skills. China is no longer has the cheapest labour, but Western companies still use them for manufacturing because they have the skills, which have been lost from the West many years ago.

More than "lost", which has the implication of "accidental". The skills were knowingly and explicitly exported over many years, for a variety of reasons.

The phrase "architect of their own misfortune" springs to mind.

Taxes have their place and tariffs are just one of them, but the way the current administration are implanting them is wrong and won't have the intended effect.

Just so (but I think a spell chucker or LLM predictor mutated "implementing" into "implanting")

[Marco]

There you go, more "Eeeeevil Chinese! They're only out to destroy us!".

Xi is out to secure China against outside influence, by economic destruction of the west.

China should be helicopter dropping money on their citizens, instead they are depreciating against the Euro. Wage suppression is Xi's hammer and everything is a nail. The few little baby steps made for increasing Chinese disposable income got dropped like a brick again in this crisis.

And how would that not be capitalism?

It's mercantilism.

[u666sa]

[u666sa]

Also, I recently received my order from aliexpress, which I placed when tariffs began. No tariffs on hot air nozzle and rozin flux. 
It appears, as far as technology, things like PCB holders, soldering tips, microscopes, hot air stations, etc, you can order from aliexpress without tariffs.

[Simon]

China isn't immoral or wrong in how they behave.  They are simply very, very good at what they do.  And they are getting better every day.

Yes.
I think 85% of the anti-China sentiment is envy/fear rather than justifiable moral indignation.
More like 90%.

"We" voted with our wallets.....

[SiliconWizard]

Being "anti-China" when you so much rely on it is utterly stupid and makes zero sense. They don't force you to do any business with them.

But you can be anti-outsourcing-everything. *That* already makes more sense.

[TimFox]

With respect to recent trade negotiations, specifically addressing rare-earth metals that now come almost exclusively from China:
In September 1962, the American comic strip Dick Tracy started a long series about travel to the Moon aboard a magnetic space coupe.
For most of that series, the subtitle "The nation that controls magnetism will control the universe" appeared.
See the blurb about the magnetic space coupe in  https://www.dicktracymuseum.com/new-page

Rare earths are not particularly rare, but they are very dirty to refine.
The main region for mining them in China was run for a while by a criminal organization, but the local government suppressed them.
However, the refining process is environmentally filthy, even by the standards of the PRC.

At one point, the PRC negotiators were thinking of restricting the end user to non-military uses, as the US has done with some technologies in the past sent to China.

[langwadt]

Rare earths are not particularly rare, but they are very dirty to refine.
The main region for mining them in China was run for a while by a criminal organization, but the local government suppressed them.
However, the refining process is environmentally filthy, even by the standards of the PRC.

afaiu they basically dumped the price until everyone else gave up and closed down knowing that the amount of red tape and money needed would make restarting something like that very hard

[Analog Kid]

Rare earths are not particularly rare, but they are very dirty to refine.
The main region for mining them in China was run for a while by a criminal organization, but the local government suppressed them.
However, the refining process is environmentally filthy, even by the standards of the PRC.

I just imagine all the mill buildings with huge masses of ore and crap sticking magnetically to every metal surface ...

[MT]

China deal done? 

[dietert1]

That person should be in a retirement home, playing cards with fellows of his age. In Brasil the arrangement is called "laranja": Criminals use it to hide their actions. Remember the "China Town" movie and its "Mar Vista Rest Home".
The silence of the Chinese government about the recent "deal" appears somewhat suspicious. They only confirmed the phone call and in their perspective the two day meeting in London confirmed the opinions exchanged in that phone call. Yet no further results and no written contract. In another occasion it was admitted that until now no trade deals resulted from tariff bullying.
On Saturday i would expect large protests. Let's hope they don't shoot protesters.

Regards, Dieter

[Analog Kid]

That person should be in a retirement home, playing cards with fellows of his age. In Brasil the arrangement is called "laranja": Criminals use it to hide their actions. Remember the "China Town" movie and its "Mar Vista Rest Home".
The silence of the Chinese government about the recent "deal" appears somewhat suspicious. They only confirmed the phone call and in their perspective the two day meeting in London confirmed the opinions exchanged in that phone call. Yet no further results and no written contract. In another occasion it was admitted that until now no trade deals resulted from tariff bullying.
On Saturday i would expect large protests. Let's hope they don't shoot protesters.

BUT HE POSTED IT IN ALL CAPS. IT MUST BE TRUE!

[tautech]

That person should be in a retirement home, playing cards with fellows of his age. In Brasil the arrangement is called "laranja": Criminals use it to hide their actions. Remember the "China Town" movie and its "Mar Vista Rest Home".
The silence of the Chinese government about the recent "deal" appears somewhat suspicious. They only confirmed the phone call and in their perspective the two day meeting in London confirmed the opinions exchanged in that phone call. Yet no further results and no written contract. In another occasion it was admitted that until now no trade deals resulted from tariff bullying.

Why ?
They don't need to crow from the rooftops as they have the upper hand.

All the buff and banter is what one needs to be suspicious of.

[Sorama]

Why would China be ok with a tariff of 55% on their export while only 10% on import of American goods?

I wouldn't be surprised if there is no deal at all.

[krish2487]

Why would China be ok with a tariff of 55% on their export while only 10% on import of American goods?

I wouldn't be surprised if there is no deal at all.

I m not saying that the deal is done or support the orange clown.. but

1. Even with 55% tariffs chinese imports will be cheaper than Made in USA ( big deal.. your dollar trinkets from aliexpress cost 1.5 usd now.. )
2. Even with just 10% tariffs on USA imports, no chinese will buy anything that is actually made in USA..
 

Not to mention... the tariffs are being paid by the residents of USA... China could simply not care less..

[MT]

That person should be in a retirement home, playing cards with fellows of his age. In Brasil the arrangement is called "laranja": Criminals use it to hide their actions. Remember the "China Town" movie and its "Mar Vista Rest Home".
The silence of the Chinese government about the recent "deal" appears somewhat suspicious. They only confirmed the phone call and in their perspective the two day meeting in London confirmed the opinions exchanged in that phone call. Yet no further results and no written contract. In another occasion it was admitted that until now no trade deals resulted from tariff bullying.
On Saturday i would expect large protests. Let's hope they don't shoot protesters.

BUT HE POSTED IT IN ALL CAPS. IT MUST BE TRUE!

HOPIUM is one halluva drug. By the globalist bankers for the voter sheeple swept down with a imperial CocaCola to the music of the stock markets "last chair" game.

[BravoV]

Not to mention... the tariffs are being paid by the residents of USA... China could simply not care less..

One of the reason there is no heavy protest on the tariff, is the majority of the Trumpers or the MAGA red necks, still "strongly" believe its China who pays for the tariff. 

Watched one the street interview video , one the MAGA dude even said in the interview ... "If we raise the tariff more than 100%, it means China will pay us to buy their stuff, but that is not nice isn't it ? Hence, Trump cancelled the 145% tariff, and also one of his great dealing strategy which works great ! ...". 

Yeah, that shows how the education quality there that shaped some of Americans mind, great country. 

[krish2487]

One of the reason there is no heavy protest on the tariff, is the majority of the Trumpers or the MAGA red necks, still "strongly" believe its China who pays for the tariff. 

Watched one the street interview video , one the MAGA dude even said in the interview ... "If we raise the tariff more than 100%, it means China will pay us to buy their stuff, but that is not nice isn't it ? Hence, Trump cancelled the 145% tariff, and also one of his great dealing strategy which works great ! ...". 

Yeah, that shows how the education quality there that shaped some of Americans mind, great country. 

Oh.. I m sure they believe that... Just like Mexico paid for the wall... and injecting bleach / horse medication cured covid 

Regarding the quality of education.. that is really sad.. some of the brightest minds after the WW2 were in the US... not to mention all the knowledge they gained from providing asylum to Nazis and the knowledge gained from Unit 731.. and then there is the space race  and medical innovation and semiconductor progress... US was really at the forefront of development...
After all that... to see that logic and critical thinking is in this pathetic state now... 
It was not this bad when I briefly went to college there about 14 years ago...

[tszaboo]

Not to mention... the tariffs are being paid by the residents of USA... China could simply not care less..

One of the reason there is no heavy protest on the tariff, is the majority of the Trumpers or the MAGA red necks, still "strongly" believe its China who pays for the tariff. 

Watched one the street interview video , one the MAGA dude even said in the interview ... "If we raise the tariff more than 100%, it means China will pay us to buy their stuff, but that is not nice isn't it ? Hence, Trump cancelled the 145% tariff, and also one of his great dealing strategy which works great ! ...". 

Yeah, that shows how the education quality there that shaped some of Americans mind, great country. 

You know it very well, that these oversimplifeid ways of "who pays for tariffs" is just strawman and "appeal to ridicule" fallacies.
There is a well understood effects of tariffs on the macroeconomics level.

So yes, tariffs reduce consumer surplus, which means you will buy less things that you actually don't need. Most of the imported goods from China are luxury items, even if they are 1 USD luxury items. You don't import food, energy, your home or transportation from China. And you see, there is that rectangle in the middle, which is the part where China pays for it.

Oh.. I m sure they believe that... Just like Mexico paid for the wall... and injecting bleach / horse medication cured covid 

Yes, why don't you bring up the "both sides" and other media hacks, where they clip a 5 second half sentence out of context and repeat that constantly on TV?

[vad]

So yes, tariffs reduce consumer surplus, which means you will buy less things that you actually don't need. Most of the imported goods from China are luxury items, even if they are 1 USD luxury items. You don't import food, energy, your home or transportation from China. And you see, there is that rectangle in the middle, which is the part where China pays for it.

I am flattered that you called my crappy buggy $2 prototype PCB a luxury item.

[TimFox]

Do I need coffee and bananas?

[tszaboo]

So yes, tariffs reduce consumer surplus, which means you will buy less things that you actually don't need. Most of the imported goods from China are luxury items, even if they are 1 USD luxury items. You don't import food, energy, your home or transportation from China. And you see, there is that rectangle in the middle, which is the part where China pays for it.

I am flattered that you called my crappy buggy $2 prototype PCB a luxury item.

Were you able to pay for it or do you need a gofundme now?
Are you going to eat it, or you ordered it because it's a hobby of yours?

[dietert1]

Does that model include the fact that foreign contractors are getting tired with the US government? I mean the tariffs can go up and down at any time and the stable genius never hesitates to break contracts, even those he himself signed with Canada and Mexico.
Traders all over the world are trying to route their business elsewhere. Just happened to read that imports from China to Brasil increased by 26 % over the last 12 months. That increase included an expensive oil drilling platform. We are buying cheap, but it may hurt our industries as well. E.g. a ready to use car tire imported from China is cheaper than the raw material in Brasil. In that context the average monthly income of retired Chinese was mentioned to be the equivalent of US$ 29.

Regards, Dieter

[vad]

Were you able to pay for it or do you need a gofundme now?
Are you going to eat it, or you ordered it because it's a hobby of yours?

Do I understand you correctly that you want to speculate about the impact of the tariffs on inflation (or the lack thereof) before they have worked their way through the economy, shown up on price tags in grocery and home improvement stores, and been recorded and published by statistical bureaus? Be patient, wait until fall, and in the meantime, try not to eat any PCB.