Tariffs

[Sorama]

What a complete lack of insight.
However, nothing new.

[PlainName]

There are more important things than money.

Not according to Mr Art-of-the-Deal.

[Halcyon]

Let's get back on topic about tariffs. As mentioned by other users, it's just getting to get locked otherwise.

[tggzzz]

What a complete lack of insight.
However, nothing new.

Agreed

Quite remarkable.

[tggzzz]

Let's get back on topic about tariffs. As mentioned by other users, it's just getting to get locked otherwise.

I did ask for that to happen, when the thread was <10% of its current size
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/tariffs/msg5874526/#msg5874526

[jpanhalt]

So many of the anti-American and anti-ICE statements here seem made by British and Europeans.  I'm glad you are upset that America has decided not to be a doormat to you as it was during Biden.  It's unfortunate you missed the open door policy of Biden to come here and enjoy our freedoms and low taxes, which the Big Beautiful Bill Act has made permanent or reduced further for several years to come.

As for statements about arresting people falsely, the person to whom you are probably referring is a hardened criminal, he was not arrested falsely, is currently being prosecuted for human trafficking,  and had existing deportation orders.  Whatever Trump's administration has done is a far cry from the persecution of Christians that UK has allowed for years.

Source:The Guardian]
Ilesanmi was detained outside Southgate tube station in Enfield, north London, by Metropolitan police officers after he was accused of Islamophobia by a passerby.

  Not only was he arrested, but his Bible was confiscated as evidence of Islamophobia.  And, there have been many more.  That's "due process UK style."

You should address your own problems.

[tggzzz]

So many of the anti-American and anti-ICE statements here seem made by British and Europeans.  I'm glad you are upset that America has decided not to be a doormat to you as it was during Biden.  It's unfortunate you missed the open door policy of Biden to come here and enjoy our freedoms and low taxes, which the Big Beautiful Bill Act has made permanent or reduced further for several years to come.

As for statements about arresting people falsely, the person to whom you are probably referring is a hardened criminal, he was not arrested falsely, is currently being prosecuted for human trafficking,  and had existing deportation orders.  Whatever Trump's administration has done is a far cry from the persecution of Christians that UK has allowed for years.

Source:The Guardian]
Ilesanmi was detained outside Southgate tube station in Enfield, north London, by Metropolitan police officers after he was accused of Islamophobia by a passerby.

  Not only was he arrested, but his Bible was confiscated as evidence of Islamophobia.  And, there have been many more.  That's "due process UK style."

You should address your own problems.

You neglect to mention several very significant facts, presumably to try to make your point.

Following due legal process, that single arrest was deemed to be illegal, and the police had to pay him £2500. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-49143822

Contrast that with what's happening repeatedly in the US

[Monkeh]

So many of the anti-American and anti-ICE statements here seem made by British and Europeans.

We don't live in fear of El Presidente and his security forces. And we haven't been indoctrinated.

[Zero999]

So many of the anti-American and anti-ICE statements here seem made by British and Europeans. 

Propaganda?

I follow both pro-Trump as well as anti-Trump outlets. He has his weaknesses and has plenty of polices and has done things I disagree with, the current implementation of tariffs and rhetoric surrounding them being one of them, but he also has some great policies which I support. I don't fall for the orange man = bad, or Trump is the best nonsense.

[Simon]

If you want to see how trumps tariffs will backfire take a look at this:

Despite trying they could not source all of the stuff for their simple device in the US. And to further make it worse when trying to buy overseas from suppliers not located in china they simply got Chinese stuff drop shipped to them. You can't reverse the decline in industry in a matter of weeks, months or even a few years, it will take at least a decade of hardship to turn that boat around. Contrary to Trumps statements, China will not be paying for the tariffs (during that decade or more), the American people will, that is how tariffs work!

[krish2487]

Despite trying they could not source all of the stuff for their simple device in the US. And to further make it worse when trying to buy overseas from suppliers not located in china they simply got Chinese stuff drop shipped to them. You can't reverse the decline in industry in a matter of weeks, months or even a few years, it will take at least a decade of hardship to turn that boat around. Contrary to Trumps statements, China will not be paying for the tariffs (during that decade or more), the American people will, that is how tariffs work!

That ship has sailed a while ago Simon. The loss of first hand knowledge with old timers changing fields, retiring, passing away and no one to pass the baton to, has been apparent for quite a few decades now . Manufacturing in America entirely is not just prohibitively expensive, it is just not possible. As others have mentioned over these many many pages, there are quite a few reasons why. Trumps tantrums and wishing it wont make it so.. and anyone who believes trump deserves to just suffer the consequences of this mess long term. 

[TimFox]

The explosion of US manufacturing in the early 20th century relied on the influx of immigrant labor, and the manufacturing process (e.g at Ford Motors) was designed for that labor force.
Recent reports indicate that manufacturing now has a labor shortage (I’ve seen estimates of about 500,000 shortage currently, possibly going to a couple of million in a few years).

[nctnico]

The explosion of US manufacturing in the early 20th century relied on the influx of immigrant labor, and the manufacturing process (e.g at Ford Motors) was designed for that labor force.
Recent reports indicate that manufacturing now has a labor shortage (I’ve seen estimates of about 500,000 shortage currently, possibly going to a couple of million in a few years).

I can't imagine there aren't enough people in the US to get the work done. Especially with so many poor people and even many living on the streets. At the beginning of the 1900's factories in West Europe would build houses for the workers to live nearby the factory.

[TimFox]

The explosion of US manufacturing in the early 20th century relied on the influx of immigrant labor, and the manufacturing process (e.g at Ford Motors) was designed for that labor force.
Recent reports indicate that manufacturing now has a labor shortage (I’ve seen estimates of about 500,000 shortage currently, possibly going to a couple of million in a few years).

I can't imagine there aren't enough people in the US to get the work done. Especially with so many poor people and even many living on the streets.

It’s hard to hold down a job when you’re living on the street.

[nctnico]

See my addition about building homes for workers.

[Zero999]

Despite trying they could not source all of the stuff for their simple device in the US. And to further make it worse when trying to buy overseas from suppliers not located in china they simply got Chinese stuff drop shipped to them. You can't reverse the decline in industry in a matter of weeks, months or even a few years, it will take at least a decade of hardship to turn that boat around. Contrary to Trumps statements, China will not be paying for the tariffs (during that decade or more), the American people will, that is how tariffs work!

That ship has sailed a while ago Simon. The loss of first hand knowledge with old timers changing fields, retiring, passing away and no one to pass the baton to, has been apparent for quite a few decades now . Manufacturing in America entirely is not just prohibitively expensive, it is just not possible. As others have mentioned over these many many pages, there are quite a few reasons why. Trumps tantrums and wishing it wont make it so.. and anyone who believes trump deserves to just suffer the consequences of this mess long term. 

Yes. we've lost the skills and infrastructure for manufacturing in the West. China no longer has the cheapest labour. Western companies manufacture in China because it has all the raw materials and a skilled workforce.

The explosion of US manufacturing in the early 20th century relied on the influx of immigrant labor, and the manufacturing process (e.g at Ford Motors) was designed for that labor force.
Recent reports indicate that manufacturing now has a labor shortage (I’ve seen estimates of about 500,000 shortage currently, possibly going to a couple of million in a few years).

I doubt there's a labour shortage. I don't know about the US, but when I was unemployed and just wanted a temporary, low skilled job, just to ease me back into work, after a period of illness, I found it hard even to get the most basic of jobs. I was subject to three interviews even for applying for a Christmas job at a toy retailer, which I didn't get because I didn't want to hassle customers and try to sell them cheap plastic bags at the checkout.

It might have been true in the 1950s, but not today. Extensive automation means mass production no longer requires huge numbers of low skilled workers.

I suppose it's plausible there's a shortage of skilled labour, but that's a different matter.

It's also true that in the past companies have offshored manufacturing because it's cheaper, compared to investing in training and automation. Government policies such as higher taxes and environmental regulation, which have moved pollution abroad and made it more costly to manufacture locally have only made things worse.

[jpanhalt]

If you want to see how trumps tariffs will backfire take a look at this:

Despite trying they could not source all of the stuff for their simple device in the US. And to further make it worse when trying to buy overseas from suppliers not located in china they simply got Chinese stuff drop shipped to them. You can't reverse the decline in industry in a matter of weeks, months or even a few years, it will take at least a decade of hardship to turn that boat around. Contrary to Trumps statements, China will not be paying for the tariffs (during that decade or more), the American people will, that is how tariffs work!

It's amazing a moderator would state as fact such rubbish. 

[PlainName]

It's amazing a moderator would state as fact such rubbish.

I'm agog. Do moderators have to take a degree course in Know Everything before they can post a non-moderatorial comment? Is there an actual qualification Dave had to check before Simon was allowed to post anything?

[TimFox]

The explosion of US manufacturing in the early 20th century relied on the influx of immigrant labor, and the manufacturing process (e.g at Ford Motors) was designed for that labor force.
Recent reports indicate that manufacturing now has a labor shortage (I’ve seen estimates of about 500,000 shortage currently, possibly going to a couple of million in a few years).

I can't imagine there aren't enough people in the US to get the work done. Especially with so many poor people and even many living on the streets. At the beginning of the 1900's factories in West Europe would build houses for the workers to live nearby the factory.

No need to imagine:
A typical article from a manufacturing trade publication:  https://manufacturing-today.com/news/persistent-labor-shortages-are-endangering-us-manufacturing-output/

[Simon]

It's the same in the UK to a degree. In the UK subbing it out is the buzz word. So my employer spent £1'000s getting prototype metal work made by another company that "sources it", one of the parts was wrong because it was done slap dash and we had to wait for replacement. For less that £100'000 we could buy our own equipment. It does not help that we are owned by an American company that has to agree to such spends.

[Simon]

No need to imagine:
A typical article from a manufacturing trade publication:  https://manufacturing-today.com/news/persistent-labor-shortages-are-endangering-us-manufacturing-output/

That article was like 10 times longer than it needed to be, but I suppose it was written by the sort of person that did not fancy a job more skilled than copy writing.

[Simon]

If you want to see how trumps tariffs will backfire take a look at this:

Despite trying they could not source all of the stuff for their simple device in the US. And to further make it worse when trying to buy overseas from suppliers not located in china they simply got Chinese stuff drop shipped to them. You can't reverse the decline in industry in a matter of weeks, months or even a few years, it will take at least a decade of hardship to turn that boat around. Contrary to Trumps statements, China will not be paying for the tariffs (during that decade or more), the American people will, that is how tariffs work!

It's amazing a moderator would state as fact such rubbish. 

I simply pointed out the main points in the video. Being a moderator does not have anything to do with it, I suggest you up your debating game. As it happens my own employer wanted to get something molded in the UK, we have a local company. A colleague was sent to talk to them, very helpful with information but the answer was no, we won't mold your thing because it will take longer to set up than shoot out the 1000 pieces you want and we want to run one part for 24 hours straight.

[tggzzz]

It's amazing a moderator would state as fact such rubbish.

It is amazing that a non-moderator would state that rubbish as if it was a fact.

But then I suppose your imagining that moderators are abnormally omniscient is just an extension of imagination about the T'rump and the consequences of his (and his financial backers) actions.

[Zero999]

The explosion of US manufacturing in the early 20th century relied on the influx of immigrant labor, and the manufacturing process (e.g at Ford Motors) was designed for that labor force.
Recent reports indicate that manufacturing now has a labor shortage (I’ve seen estimates of about 500,000 shortage currently, possibly going to a couple of million in a few years).

I can't imagine there aren't enough people in the US to get the work done. Especially with so many poor people and even many living on the streets. At the beginning of the 1900's factories in West Europe would build houses for the workers to live nearby the factory.

No need to imagine:
A typical article from a manufacturing trade publication:  https://manufacturing-today.com/news/persistent-labor-shortages-are-endangering-us-manufacturing-output/

I've read that article, yes skilled workers and a return to apprenticeships are what's required. Hopefully, recent government cuts to universities will result in fewer young people wasting money on studying pointless courses, in exchange for on the job training which will lead to secure, well-paid jobs.

[nctnico]

The explosion of US manufacturing in the early 20th century relied on the influx of immigrant labor, and the manufacturing process (e.g at Ford Motors) was designed for that labor force.
Recent reports indicate that manufacturing now has a labor shortage (I’ve seen estimates of about 500,000 shortage currently, possibly going to a couple of million in a few years).

I can't imagine there aren't enough people in the US to get the work done. Especially with so many poor people and even many living on the streets. At the beginning of the 1900's factories in West Europe would build houses for the workers to live nearby the factory.

No need to imagine:
A typical article from a manufacturing trade publication:  https://manufacturing-today.com/news/persistent-labor-shortages-are-endangering-us-manufacturing-output/

If you scan through the article the problem isn't a lack of people but lack of education and job security. These can only be fixed by the government through implementing better workforce protection laws (like not being able to lay off people at a whim) and investing in education. Actually, the article specifically mentions building homes for workers.