Tariffs

[Zero999]

Removing illegals is great. It's just enforcing the law.

I don't disagree.

People will be wrongly arrested and charged which of course is bad, but that happens every day for numerous other crimes, yet it doesn't gain the same level of coverage. I bet wrongful arrest for illegal immigration is tiny, compared to the number of wrongful arrests in total.

But that's not what is happening.

Armed hoodlums concealing their identity, spotting someone who "doesn't look right", abducting them and disappearing them without due process, and against court directives.

That's banana republic behaviour (police and/or criminal gangs). Full stop.

Firstly you haven't addressed the reason why they feel the need to hide their identity. They legitimately fear harassment, intimidation and violence from the activists who oppose them.

I don't support the tariffs, but so far, they're not as bad as all the talking heads have said. All I see is a load of hysteria.

That's because you appear to only read sources that hide the truth.

Such as? The BBC. They've done that before.

[krish2487]

Firstly you haven't addressed the reason why they feel the need to hide their identity. They legitimately fear harassment, intimidation and violence from the activists who oppose them.

As opposed to the harassment,intimidation and illegal deportation (without due process and against court directives) the armed hoodlums are subjecting the people to??
/sarcasm dripping from everywhere in case it was not clear...

ICE thugs / enforcers are not hiding their identity due to fear of  harassment.. its due to cowardice... pure and simple..

[tggzzz]

Removing illegals is great. It's just enforcing the law.

I don't disagree.

People will be wrongly arrested and charged which of course is bad, but that happens every day for numerous other crimes, yet it doesn't gain the same level of coverage. I bet wrongful arrest for illegal immigration is tiny, compared to the number of wrongful arrests in total.

But that's not what is happening.

Armed hoodlums concealing their identity, spotting someone who "doesn't look right", abducting them and disappearing them without due process, and against court directives.

That's banana republic behaviour (police and/or criminal gangs). Full stop.

Firstly you haven't addressed the reason why they feel the need to hide their identity. They legitimately fear harassment, intimidation and violence from the activists who oppose them.

Yeaaaaah! Riiiiight!

If they were merely doing a  legal job in accordance with the law, they could call on the police to protect them. But they aren't.

Banana republic. Hit squad. Armed thugs. Extrajudicial mob rule.

[PlainName]

They legitimately fear harassment, intimidation and violence from the activists who oppose them.

What activists are those? Can you quote any instance where ICE members have been targeted, and say who by?

[Marco]

https://www.newsweek.com/ice-agents-personal-details-database-los-angeles-protests-deportation-2083277

Doxxing is an inherent form of harrasment.

[PlainName]

Seems to me to be due to the unaccountability. Here, police have numbers and you can identify them by that number (and also know that they are police). But that won't tell you where they live or who their families are. If ICE didn't act exactly as thugs would (in fact, exactly those that they pretend to be scared of) then there wouldn't be a problem.

Other police officers don't seem to need to be anonymous and unidentifiable as police.

[Marco]

Context matters, a list of police officers on a police website and a list on a black bloc website are not the same. In this context it's harrasment and it is targeted at a group rather than an individual.

You can argue cause justifies the means and some innocent victims are justified. You can argue ICE is the equivalent of the deathstar and anyone who has joined is then by definition not innocent (Clerks reference). Regardless it accomplishes a lot more than just accountability.

[PlainName]

I wasn't saying it's justified. I was saying it's probably a result of going totally incognito - that triggers whoever to set about detailing who they are.

[TimFox]

The tactics currently in use by DHS and ICE are obviously designed to instill fear.
Face masks and scary clothing.
Detention centers surrounded by alligators.
Quick transport to distant locations to avoid pesky lawyers.
Trapping subjects who are trying to comply with regulations by reporting at immigration offices or courts.
Use of foreign dungeons.
Deportation to South Sudan and other dangerous locations unrelated to the subject.
At least they are not involved in tariffs, the topic of this thread.

[Zero999]

The tactics currently in use by DHS and ICE are obviously designed to instill fear.
Face masks and scary clothing.
Detention centers surrounded by alligators.
Quick transport to distant locations to avoid pesky lawyers.
Trapping subjects who are trying to comply with regulations by reporting at immigration offices or courts.
Use of foreign dungeons.
Deportation to South Sudan and other dangerous locations unrelated to the subject.
At least they are not involved in tariffs, the topic of this thread.

Which is by design and is a good thing. People who have broken the law should be afraid. It appears to have worked. Fewer people are crossing the border illegally and many have gone back of their own accord.

[KE5FX]

People who have broken the law should be afraid.

People who have broken the law according to whom?  Other lawbreakers?

Resist the temptation to oversimplify this.  ICE's budget is now, as of yesterday, a significant fraction of the size of the Apollo program.

[tggzzz]

The tactics currently in use by DHS and ICE are obviously designed to instill fear.
Face masks and scary clothing.
Detention centers surrounded by alligators.
Quick transport to distant locations to avoid pesky lawyers.
Trapping subjects who are trying to comply with regulations by reporting at immigration offices or courts.
Use of foreign dungeons.
Deportation to South Sudan and other dangerous locations unrelated to the subject.
At least they are not involved in tariffs, the topic of this thread.

Which is by design and is a good thing. People who have broken the law should be afraid. It appears to have worked. Fewer people are crossing the border illegally and many have gone back of their own accord.

And people who haven't broken the law should need to be afraid. But the masked thugs' actions make everybody afraid that the rule of law has broken down.

[PlainName]

People who have broken the law

Alleged to have broken the law, but not given a chance to show they haven't or otherwise offered due process.

[tggzzz]

Removing illegals is great. It's just enforcing the law.

I don't disagree.

People will be wrongly arrested and charged which of course is bad, but that happens every day for numerous other crimes, yet it doesn't gain the same level of coverage. I bet wrongful arrest for illegal immigration is tiny, compared to the number of wrongful arrests in total.

But that's not what is happening.

Armed hoodlums concealing their identity, spotting someone who "doesn't look right", abducting them and disappearing them without due process, and against court directives.

That's banana republic behaviour (police and/or criminal gangs). Full stop.

Firstly you haven't addressed the reason why they feel the need to hide their identity. They legitimately fear harassment, intimidation and violence from the activists who oppose them.

So for that reason, presumably you are proposing that all police, lawyers, judges, prison officials should be able to go around masked and in a nondescript uniform.

It would be quite cheap to implement: they could use a burka or niqab. If those were too restrictive, terrorists have found a keffiyeh to be sufficient while throwing Molotov cocktails.

[Zero999]

Removing illegals is great. It's just enforcing the law.

I don't disagree.

People will be wrongly arrested and charged which of course is bad, but that happens every day for numerous other crimes, yet it doesn't gain the same level of coverage. I bet wrongful arrest for illegal immigration is tiny, compared to the number of wrongful arrests in total.

But that's not what is happening.

Armed hoodlums concealing their identity, spotting someone who "doesn't look right", abducting them and disappearing them without due process, and against court directives.

That's banana republic behaviour (police and/or criminal gangs). Full stop.

Firstly you haven't addressed the reason why they feel the need to hide their identity. They legitimately fear harassment, intimidation and violence from the activists who oppose them.

So for that reason, presumably you are proposing that all police, lawyers, judges, prison officials should be able to go around masked and in a nondescript uniform.

It would be quite cheap to implement: they could use a burka or niqab. If those were too restrictive, terrorists have found a keffiyeh to be sufficient while throwing Molotov cocktails.

Yes I would support that. Much better than our rubbish plastic police who don't investigate most crimes. They wouldn't scare me.

[TimFox]

Nobody expects the Spanish Inquisition...

[coppercone2]

When they use carnivorous animals as a part of their plan, multiple bond villains come to mind. Emilio Largo, Blofeld , Dr. No, Dr. Evil, Zorin and perhaps others?

you would think the insurance company would shut that shit down because its like a undue risk to prisoners 

I am waiting for a very big lawsuit from a (wrongfully) convicted person that has a encounter with a hungry alligator when the usual lazy prison guard thing happens . Show the jury limb recovery from inside of said reptile.

[tszaboo]

ICE

ICE

ICE

ICE

ICE

Working really hard to try to close this topic, I see.

[themadhippy]

    ICE

 

ICE

Baby

[tggzzz]

ICE

ICE

ICE

ICE

ICE

Working really hard to try to close this topic, I see.

It is one of the reasons people aren't revolting against the T'rump taxes tariffs. Flooded with more distracting concerns, but once inflation begins to bite...

Standard playbook: distract from your own failures by blaming the poor and immigrants (and ignoring the robber barons), and have an (external) war.

All as described in the history books - and Babylon 5 (and to a lesser extent in Continuum).

[Zero999]

It is one of the reasons people aren't revolting against the T'rump taxes tariffs. Flooded with more distracting concerns, but once inflation begins to bite...

Standard playbook: distract from your own failures by blaming the poor and immigrants (and ignoring the robber barons), and have an (external) war.

All as described in the history books - and Babylon 5 (and to a lesser extent in Continuum).

Except this isn't about legal immigrants, but illegals. Plenty of legal immigrants support cracking down on illegals. I don't know about the US, but here in the UK, one has to jump through numerous hoops to come and work here legitimately. People who've done that, have every right to be angry with those who've broken the rules.

Trump also has other policies with widespread support such as taking action against universities who allow biological male athletes to compete against females, in violation of title IX.

Many people tolerate tariffs, even if they might make them poorer, because the government is doing other things they support. There are more important things than money.

[Sorama]

What a complete lack of insight.
However, nothing new.

[PlainName]

There are more important things than money.

Not according to Mr Art-of-the-Deal.

[Halcyon]

Let's get back on topic about tariffs. As mentioned by other users, it's just getting to get locked otherwise.

[tggzzz]

What a complete lack of insight.
However, nothing new.

Agreed

Quite remarkable.