Tariffs

[dietert1]

I am a bit worried with all that nationalism. As far as i understand the great lesson of the 20th century was that nationalism results in war. What was once thought to be a great source of motivation got burnt. US americans will soon understand better what they did when electing that administration. They find themselves amidst a trade war against the whole world. It may motivate those who trust their administration, but they will suffer, too.

Regards, Dieter

[tggzzz]

There might be some interesting contentions in this diatribe, but I've highlighted the key point that puts them in context

The money creators want three classes of people, the slave workers, the managerial class that runs everything, and themselves, that own everything and create the money. The slaves will think the managerial class are the wealthy people that control and run everything, just like people think politicians and low-level millionaires rule the world now. Elon Musk is not the richest man on earth, he is not even close. He is a tool of the money creators and their wealth is beyond trillions. They have so much wealth and power, you don't even know who they are. They are the families that own money creation, like the USA Federal Reserve, that they privately own and control.

The USD is slated for destruction. Americans will be on CBDCs probably by the 30's. The CBDCs have already been rolled out in some places in the USA. CBDCs are the ultimate form of slavery. Freedom will be over. Especially, when you combine that with the soon to be rolled out, health ("vaccine") passports.

The global forced, mass migration of peoples from the third world countries into the first world countries was about many things, but among the top, is the creation of that slave labor class. Think about all of the illegal aliens living in the USA right now. They are not going to be deported. Trump was lying. Those are the people that will be competing for any of the factory jobs they keep talking about and promising, that aren't replaced by automation, robotics, AI, obsolescence, etc. The factory jobs of the past are long gone. There will be no dad that is an engineer at Ford that owns a suburban house and a cottage on Lake Michigan and his wife is a housewife and they have four kids and they can afford to send them all to college. That is gone.

Look at the 15 minute cities popping up all over the world right now. They are the hottest investments. These massive towers look impressive, they are clad in ways that almost look like rich people live there. But, inside, those towers are tiny barracks. Little dormitory rooms. They are smaller than hotel rooms. These are not homes for families. They are barracks for the working slave class. The goal is to relocate all of the people from rural and suburban areas and cram them into the cities. This is exactly what they have done for the past 100+ years and now it is coming to the USA, Canada, EU and the "West" in general.

These tariffs are to further fracture ties between peoples and goods and prosperity. They are destroying the entire system to replace it with this dystopian nightmare. For the money creators, it is their ultimate dream, along with Their human life longevity. I know this because I met the kids of these money creators and kids of the Rockefeller's when I was at Yale. I am friends with these people. But, you don't need to be friends with any of these people to know what they are doing, everything is right out in the open. They publish everything they are going to do before they even do it. They train the managerial class on what their function, duties are, many times every year (like Davos) and much of that is made public. Even if initially private, it always gets leaked eventually. But, it is almost always, 100% wide out, in the open (think Event 201 and the Rockefeller's Scenarios publication(s) ---Operation Lockstep). We knew Covid was coming a year before they released it. Why, because they told us it was. They told the managerial class how to handle it. All we could do was just sit back and watch the masses not just fall for this atrocity, but actively engage in maximizing the human suffering.

One thing is clear, the global population is willing to take massive amounts of pain and suffering, including self induced, solitary confinement, without fighting back. Instead of fighting back, people were committing suicide in epic numbers. It will be easy getting people on to CBDCs, carrying a mandatory, "Health Passport", living in vertical barracks, eating garbage foods ---no, "You will Eat Zee Bugz", and "You will own nothing and be happy", as Klaus Schwab and the World Economic Forum tell us. Further, Treasury Secretary, Scott Bessent, told us the other day that very soon, Americans will have to get used to working a lot harder, a lot more, and get used to not being able to buy as much stuff (that was on an interview with Tucker Carlson (on YouTube and Rumble)).

Addressing the main topic, if you struggle with tariffs, you can do some very clever, very creative solutions with cargo ships, ship to ship transfers, international zones (on land), etc. I've seen billions of dollars in creative transactions take place. It is amazing and unbelievable. It isn't just private companies that do this; entire countries do this to get around tariffs, sanctions, legally shimmy around international laws. I am in the building technology, construction business, not electronics, but if your trade has some good people, they should have at least one journal that talks on this subject and how to deal with it professionally and legally. Some stuff looks so crooked, but it happens to be legal. I am certain that many of these scenarios are set up like this on purpose. Lobbying Loopholes...

[Zero999]

I am a bit worried with all that nationalism. As far as i understand the great lesson of the 20th century was that nationalism results in war. What was once thought to be a great source of motivation got burnt. US americans will soon understand better what they did when electing that administration. They find themselves amidst a trade war against the whole world. It may motivate those who trust their administration, but they will suffer, too.

Regards, Dieter

Why? One could say a great lesson of the 20th century was socialism results in totalitarianism.  On the other hand, plenty of free and democratic countries have adopted some socialist policies such as welfare and universal healthcare.

Nationalism in itself isn't bad. There are plenty of peaceful of countries who are nationalistic: Japan and, South Korea spring to mind. It's when things are taken to the extreme, is when problems arise.

[AVGresponding]

I am suspicious that the parts might not be that hard to make if you put some money in it. Its a damn UV light source. And for all we know a emitter is right around the corner that gets rid of what ever complicated thing they have to make that shallow light right now.

Like if you have the physical machine and a few billion dollars and a analytical lab and some government pressure, someone is gonna figure out how to fix it pretty quick.


And like they would not bribe a ex employee or something if it was really giving them trouble.

I think it would only be troublesome if China wanted to keep a lid on it, so it does not proliferate more, from a big ass project, perhaps to have a strategic advantage against Russia or something like that, then I could see how their trusted pool of researchers might not be big enough to fix it. But if they were just like fuck maintaining secrecy, I am certain it would get solved pretty quickly.

Not UV, but EUV. Very different.

It isn't difficult to find descriptions of how the EUV is generated, but it sounds like you haven't bothered to look for them. The mechanism surprised me.

Then there's the optics and registration.

Highly non trivial; that's why AMSL is the sole source.

China has a research programme to develop such machines. When they have succeeded, there will be less preventing them from invading Taiwan.

On that point:

[MT]

I considered that to be a reductio ad absurdum argument against the tariff.

OK. But then the tariffs themselves are absurd(um)

like tariffs on 2 islands whos population consist of penguins.

[tom66]

I am a bit worried with all that nationalism. As far as i understand the great lesson of the 20th century was that nationalism results in war. What was once thought to be a great source of motivation got burnt. US americans will soon understand better what they did when electing that administration. They find themselves amidst a trade war against the whole world. It may motivate those who trust their administration, but they will suffer, too.

Regards, Dieter

Why? One could say a great lesson of the 20th century was socialism results in totalitarianism.  On the other hand, plenty of free and democratic countries have adopted some socialist policies such as welfare and universal healthcare.

Nationalism in itself isn't bad. There are plenty of peaceful of countries who are nationalistic: Japan and, South Korea spring to mind. It's when things are taken to the extreme, is when problems arise.

Leninism (a breed of communism) resulted in totaliarianism.  Do not confuse the this with socialism.  There are many actively socialist countries now, including the UK to some extent, that do not end up as totalitarian states. Remember, the NHS was created as a 'socialist' project. As was social housing, the welfare state, state pension, etc.  In the 1900s, none of that was provided by the state - it was up to you to find the way forward as an individual.  We could call the UK a "socially democratic" country.  I do think this is the best state that can exist in our present world, but I may be biased.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

Outside of "Penguin Phobia" here is a reason given for why tariffs apply to these islands.  I am not an expert in these things but perhaps this is the reason these tariffs were levied. I hope the link works.     

https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-slaps-tariffs-on-penguin-inhabited-islands-commerce-secretary-lutnick-says-its-no-joke

[Zero999]

I am a bit worried with all that nationalism. As far as i understand the great lesson of the 20th century was that nationalism results in war. What was once thought to be a great source of motivation got burnt. US americans will soon understand better what they did when electing that administration. They find themselves amidst a trade war against the whole world. It may motivate those who trust their administration, but they will suffer, too.

Regards, Dieter

Why? One could say a great lesson of the 20th century was socialism results in totalitarianism.  On the other hand, plenty of free and democratic countries have adopted some socialist policies such as welfare and universal healthcare.

Nationalism in itself isn't bad. There are plenty of peaceful of countries who are nationalistic: Japan and, South Korea spring to mind. It's when things are taken to the extreme, is when problems arise.

Leninism (a breed of communism) resulted in totaliarianism.  Do not confuse the this with socialism.  There are many actively socialist countries now, including the UK to some extent, that do not end up as totalitarian states. Remember, the NHS was created as a 'socialist' project. As was social housing, the welfare state, state pension, etc.  In the 1900s, none of that was provided by the state - it was up to you to find the way forward as an individual.  We could call the UK a "socially democratic" country.  I do think this is the best state that can exist in our present world, but I may be biased.

And the same could be said about fascism. If we don't have some element of nationalism, then who will defend the country, in times of war? The current lack of nationalism, is more of a danger, because it's making us a soft target for our enemies.

[SiliconWizard]

I am a bit worried with all that nationalism. As far as i understand the great lesson of the 20th century was that nationalism results in war. What was once thought to be a great source of motivation got burnt. US americans will soon understand better what they did when electing that administration. They find themselves amidst a trade war against the whole world. It may motivate those who trust their administration, but they will suffer, too.

That's a Disney-like view of the world. That's not "nationalism" which resulted in wars. Wars have always been and in most cases the result of either imperialism (which is not nationalism), or used as a way to "reset" the economy.

The US is currently trying an approach that, for what I can tell, should precisely avoid a 3rd world war (which was slowly becoming unavoidable due to the immense debt of the US and other key countries, and the dead-end that we were heading to). But it's gonna shake things up for sure. Whether it's a workable approach, I don't know and don't claim to know. But as uncomfortable as it looks, just doing nothing and doing business as usual as if all was well was a sure way of hitting a brick wall sooner than many think. I'm sure many don't realize how bad the situation really has been for at least a couple decades now and how it was absolutely unsustainable as is.

The world situation in general and that of the US in particular are completely different from what it was in the late 1920's, so comparing that to the 1929 crash is not sensible if you study history a bit more closely rather than resorting to "clickbaity" headlines.

I think the only kind of reasonable advice right now is to keep calm and not hurry making quick decisions that you'd be likely to regret a few weeks or months from now.

[Smoky]

Let's see here, The United States is in debt well over $36,000,000,000,000.

The U.S. trade deficit with China exceeds $1,200,000,000,000 per year.

The American labor workforce gutted by over 30 million illegal foreign aliens.

Life-long Politicians like Nancy Pelosi having a net worth of over $265,000,000.

A mad scientist named Anthony Fauci earns a Federal pension package worth over $350,000 per year until death.

The scourge of Socialism spreading like the plague around the World.

And the list goes on and on and on...

It's well beyond the time for the United States of America to turn the ship around

[tggzzz]

Outside of "Penguin Phobia" here is a reason given for why tariffs apply to these islands.  I am not an expert in these things but perhaps this is the reason these tariffs were levied. I hope the link works.     

https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-slaps-tariffs-on-penguin-inhabited-islands-commerce-secretary-lutnick-says-its-no-joke

It is nonsense, not a valid reason. It doesn't even stand cursory inspection. There are several far simpler and more plausible explanations; use Occam's Razor.

It might, however, be sufficient to give the warm fuzzies to supporters of President Chamberlain.

[watchmaker]

Let's see here, The United States is in debt well over $36,000,000,000,000.

The U.S. trade deficit with China exceeds $1,200,000,000,000 per year.

The American labor workforce gutted by over 30 million illegal foreign aliens.

Life-long Politicians like Nancy Pelosi having a net worth of over $265,000,000.

A mad scientist named Anthony Fauci earns a Federal pension package worth over $350,000 per year until death.

The scourge of Socialism spreading like the plague around the World.

And the list goes on and on and on...

It's well beyond the time for the United States of America to turn the ship around

So, are you going to refuse your Social Security check and Medicare/Medicaid checks?  Stop using the roads?  Fight against all public/private partnerships?  Send back the subsidy checks for agriculture?  Deny health care to Vets?

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

Here is the US we have a lot of socialism in the government. Social Security, and health care etc... Socialism brings lots of govt bureaucracy into everything they do.  This means bigger govt and more people telling you what to do.  Govt telling you what to do is Totalitarianism.  It is difficult to have these socialist programs and keep them in control of the populace. They tend to become autocratic and untouchable by the voters.  There is also graft and waste in Govt and the bigger Govt gets the more opportunity there is for fraud going unnoticed.

[tggzzz]

Here is the US we have a lot of socialism in the government. Social Security, and health care etc... Socialism brings lots of govt bureaucracy into everything they do.  This means bigger govt and more people telling you what to do.  Govt telling you what to do is Totalitarianism.  It is difficult to have these socialist programs and keep them in control of the populace. They tend to become autocratic and untouchable by the voters.  There is also graft and waste in Govt and the bigger Govt gets the more opportunity there is for fraud going unnoticed.

Capitalism brings bureaucracy into healthcare, that's one reason it is so expensive in the US. It brings a large amount of friction.

There's a whole bureaucratic ecosystem devoted to finding ways to deny people healthcare; that's why so many people in the US are afraid of it.

As Eisenhower put it: "beware the military-industrial complex".

[tom66]

Here is the US we have a lot of socialism in the government. Social Security, and health care etc... Socialism brings lots of govt bureaucracy into everything they do.  This means bigger govt and more people telling you what to do.  Govt telling you what to do is Totalitarianism.  It is difficult to have these socialist programs and keep them in control of the populace. They tend to become autocratic and untouchable by the voters.  There is also graft and waste in Govt and the bigger Govt gets the more opportunity there is for fraud going unnoticed.

Capitalism brings bureaucracy into healthcare, that's one reason it is so expensive in the US. It brings a large amount of friction.

There's a whole bureaucratic ecosystem devoted to finding ways to deny people healthcare; that's why so many people in the US are afraid of it.

As Eisenhower put it: "beware the military-industrial complex".

The biggest problem with the US healthcare system is the lack of alignment between parties. 

Insurance companies want to spend as little as possible on the patient.  In their ideal world a cancer patient dies shortly after being diagnosed.  Chemo is expensive and recurrence is highly likely.  It's cold and harsh but that's what these companies think like.

Hospitals want to get paid for as much work as possible; doctors fear malpractice claims and will order unnecessary tests, and in some hospitals, doctors will receive a bonus for more racking up more billable hours.

Pharmaceutical companies would much rather develop a drug that keeps symptoms at bay rather than just cures the disease.  That's an ongoing revenue stream for them.

Patients just want to not die or suffer from their disease, but often times are least able to do so - they possess the fewest resources of any party, and due to the resulting bureaucratic nightmare, find themselves chasing insurance companies, hospitals, billing departments and doctors to get anything done.

This kind of adversarial system is common to capitalism and in many cases it can work just fine, but the parties have to be fairly balanced and have the opportunity to shop around.  Think about supermarkets competing to lower prices.  You have a choice of supermarkets and consumers will not have any difficulty having to choose a different supermarket if they find their current provider is non competitive. 

A state provided healthcare system works better because (my opinion), the state is in theory invested in your longer term outcomes. If you can get back to work after a cancer diagnosis you will be a taxpayer again.  And we vote in political parties in part based upon their performance towards the health service; reducing appointment delays and treatment times being key metrics.  It is not perfect - no system is - but no doubt at all in my mind it is better for the average person than the Kafkaesque nightmare that is the US healthcare system.

[Ranayna]

So this thread, what a surprise, is now completly descended into politics.

Sure, tariffs are inherently a political issue. It's their nature.

But can we at least *try* to keep it on the practical side of things?
To those affected by the tariffs, have you already changed your supply chain, or are at least thinking about it?
Will you forward the cost increase fully to your customers, or will you eat at least some of the increase yourself?

[Simon]

To those affected by the tariffs, have you already changed your supply chain, or are at least thinking about it?
Will you forward the cost increase fully to your customers, or will you eat at least some of the increase yourself?

Well instead of specing TE micro-match connectors today I selected a WE equivalent.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

At the radio shop, we are stocking up on radios that are made in China.       
We expect  Vietnamese radios not to be taxed as heavily, or not at all.

[MT]

Outside of "Penguin Phobia" here is a reason given for why tariffs apply to these islands.  I am not an expert in these things but perhaps this is the reason these tariffs were levied. I hope the link works.     

https://www.dailywire.com/news/trump-slaps-tariffs-on-penguin-inhabited-islands-commerce-secretary-lutnick-says-its-no-joke

Yeah right, utter garbage coming from same zio Lutnick lunatic crocked oligarch who said you should buy Tesler stock (while it is nose diving and people boycotting Musk) because its so great, Dumpf even tariffed Diego Garcia island  and Jan Mayen who's Polar bears are scratching their heads.
https://www.cbc.ca/news/world/trump-tariffs-islands-1.7501898

[Andy Chee]

Outside of "Penguin Phobia" here is a reason given for why tariffs apply to these islands.  I am not an expert in these things but perhaps this is the reason these tariffs were levied.

You don’t have to be an expert. Just use Google maps to see the location of Heard and McDonald islands!

It should be obvious to anyone with an IQ, that there is no manufacturing or logistics capability on these islands.

Anyone claiming to be shipping from these islands shouldn’t just be tariffed, they should be penalised for fraud!

[Analog Kid]

As Eisenhower put it: "beware the military-industrial complex".

Yes.^[1]

Sometimes abbreviated to MIC, this has now been expanded (by former "intelligence" officer Ray McGovern) to MICIMATT (the Military-Industrial-Congressional-Intelligence- Media-Academia-Think-Tank complex).
They're all in cahoots.

[1] Good to remember that Eisenhower was a Republican.

[tom66]

The shipping excuse doesn't hold water (heh).  You cannot ship anything substantial from an island "country" without a sea port or air port.  Needless to say, the World Trade Organisation does not recognise the Heard and McDonald Islands, and the UPU doesn't know about it either (as a distinct country... obviously, they know about Australia.)

It's a cock up by an incompetent administration and they can't admit it because they're narcissistic morons.

That said, Australia Post does have a postal code - 7151 - for these islands. So maybe they've ended up in some list somewhere because of that.  I wonder if you can send a penguin a postcard.  And what happens if you do post a letter to that postal code.  Maybe an experiment for Dave.

[Analog Kid]

You may well be right, that this is simply (another) fuck-up by the Trump admin.
But since the net effect of this is probably nil, maybe not anything to get one's knickers in a twist about.
There are bigger fish to fry, as they say ...

[Andy Chee]

You may well be right, that this is simply (another) fuck-up by the Trump admin.
But since the net effect of this is probably nil, maybe not anything to get one's knickers in a twist about.
There are bigger fish to fry, as they say ...

Arguing about tariffing Heard Island was never about the financial net effect, it was always about the incompetence of the current administration for making such a dubious decision in the first place.

In other words, if tariffing Heard Island was an obvious stupid idea, what other obvious stupid ideas abound, and more dangerously, what other less obvious stupid ideas have been implemented.

This is not a politics forum so such discussion is beyond the scope of this forum. Nevertheless, such stupidity is surely only the tip of the stupidity iceberg.

[langwadt]

Here is the US we have a lot of socialism in the government. Social Security, and health care etc... Socialism brings lots of govt bureaucracy into everything they do.  This means bigger govt and more people telling you what to do.  Govt telling you what to do is Totalitarianism.  It is difficult to have these socialist programs and keep them in control of the populace. They tend to become autocratic and untouchable by the voters.  There is also graft and waste in Govt and the bigger Govt gets the more opportunity there is for fraud going unnoticed.

Capitalism brings bureaucracy into healthcare, that's one reason it is so expensive in the US. It brings a large amount of friction.

There's a whole bureaucratic ecosystem devoted to finding ways to deny people healthcare; that's why so many people in the US are afraid of it.

As Eisenhower put it: "beware the military-industrial complex".

the MIC doesn't seem to have as much power as thought, why else would they let the president piss off all the big customers right when they are itching to spend like never before?