Tariffs

[SteveThackery]

Before you ask, I have mixer taps, and had never been in a place in EU where this wasn't the norm.

By the way, a little interesting thing about the mixer taps here in the UK. The two water feeds are not mixed inside the tap, because that could lead to cross-contamination. Instead two separate, but concentric, pipes carry the hot and cold water to the end of the spout, from which they are both discharged. They actually mix after they have left the tap.

EDIT: I should make clear that not all mixer taps work this way, only some. It is more common modern practice to use taps with two internal one-way valves, as @Zero999 says.

[tszaboo]

1) Those are old installations.

2) The water is heated, when it passes through the boiler, thus killing most microbes. It's not a good idea to drink it, but is unlikely to cause any harm.

3) A mixer tap has a non-return valve to prevent hot water flowing back into the cold water mains, which is unlikely anyway, since mains pressure is higher than that from the header tank.

Right, so we went from:
"This is bullshit, You are lying, and a liar."
to
It's happening, but only sometimes and it doesn't matter anyway, because you only would be drinking some of the dead rat.
 

[SteveThackery]

I believe the opposition to US chicken in the UK is not how it's grown, but the processing. In the UK, chicken is very hygienically butchered and processed after slaughter, so there's no need to wash it. In the US, the chicken isn't butchered and processed to the such high hygiene standards, so it needs to be washed in chlorine disinfectant to clean it.

True, but I also think there's a bit of snobbery about it. Here in the UK we are very proud of our animal welfare standards (rightly or wrongly) and we enjoy looking down on our American friends who, we believe, treat their food animals badly. The chlorine wash is proof, in our uninformed minds, because it looks like a post-slaughter clean-up that simply isn't necessary with our animals, thanks to their pampered and hedonistic lifestyle.

[Zero999]

1) Those are old installations.

2) The water is heated, when it passes through the boiler, thus killing most microbes. It's not a good idea to drink it, but is unlikely to cause any harm.

3) A mixer tap has a non-return valve to prevent hot water flowing back into the cold water mains, which is unlikely anyway, since mains pressure is higher than that from the header tank.

Right, so we went from:
"This is bullshit, You are lying, and a liar."
to
It's happening, but only sometimes and it doesn't matter anyway, because you only would be drinking some of the dead rat.
 

I didn't say that. Reread my post.

I believe the opposition to US chicken in the UK is not how it's grown, but the processing. In the UK, chicken is very hygienically butchered and processed after slaughter, so there's no need to wash it. In the US, the chicken isn't butchered and processed to the such high hygiene standards, so it needs to be washed in chlorine disinfectant to clean it.

True, but I also think there's a bit of snobbery about it. Here in the UK we are very proud of our animal welfare standards (rightly or wrongly) and we enjoy looking down on our American friends who, we believe, treat their food animals badly. The chlorine wash is proof, in our uninformed minds, because it looks like a post-slaughter clean-up that simply isn't necessary with our animals, thanks to their pampered lifestyle.

I made no comment about whether our standards are better or not, just mentioned why some people have a problem with the American standards.

I believe our standards are similar to those of other European countries, given we used to be part of the EU, until recently.

[SteveThackery]

I made no comment about whether our standards are better or not....

Neither did I. I said we Brits like to think they are.

I believe our standards are similar to those of other European countries, given we used to be part of the EU, until recently.

Yes, I believe so. Unfortunately the EU allows for different standards for halal meat, which I consider to be outrageous. But that, of course, is way outside the scope of this thread.

[Cyclotron]

I believe the opposition to US chicken in the UK is not how it's grown, but the processing. In the UK, chicken is very hygienically butchered and processed after slaughter, so there's no need to wash it. In the US, the chicken isn't butchered and processed to the such high hygiene standards, so it needs to be washed in chlorine disinfectant to clean it.

I am open to this being true but I can not find any evidence that it is, in fact, true. Only FUD that seems to be coming from the UK poultry industry which is, as a source, suspect at best as I'm sure you know.

[Zero999]

I believe the opposition to US chicken in the UK is not how it's grown, but the processing. In the UK, chicken is very hygienically butchered and processed after slaughter, so there's no need to wash it. In the US, the chicken isn't butchered and processed to the such high hygiene standards, so it needs to be washed in chlorine disinfectant to clean it.

I am open to this being true but I can not find any evidence that it is, in fact, true. Only FUD that seems to be coming from the UK poultry industry which is, as a source, suspect at best as I'm sure you know.

I saw it on BBC news. It included a clip of unhygienic chicken processing in the US. When it was dropped on the dirty floor, it was not thrown away, because it was going to be washed in chlorine disinfectant.

I'm fully aware of the fact it might be propaganda. It was around Brexit (can't remember whether it was just before or after the referendum). The BBC clearly supported remain and wanted to paint any potential deal with the US or any other country in a bad light.

EDIT:
Here's the most objective article I could find on the matter. Looking at their other content, they appear to be a bit left-leaning, but I don't see how that makes any difference to this.
https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/04/15/nx-s1-5364940/chlorinated-chicken-trump-tariffs-uk-eu

I just ensure chicken is properly cooked and I wash my hands thoughtfully both before and after handling raw and cooked meat, which is always the best way to avoid food poisoning.

[tggzzz]

I believe the opposition to US chicken in the UK is not how it's grown, but the processing. In the UK, chicken is very hygienically butchered and processed after slaughter, so there's no need to wash it. In the US, the chicken isn't butchered and processed to the such high hygiene standards, so it needs to be washed in chlorine disinfectant to clean it.

I am open to this being true but I can not find any evidence that it is, in fact, true. Only FUD that seems to be coming from the UK poultry industry which is, as a source, suspect at best as I'm sure you know.

I saw it on BBC news. It included a clip of unhygienic chicken processing in the US. When it was dropped on the dirty floor, it was not thrown away, because it was going to be washed in chlorine disinfectant.

I'm fully aware of the fact it might be propaganda. It was around Brexit (can't remember whether it was just before or after the referendum). The BBC clearly supported remain and wanted to paint any potential deal with the US or any other country in a bad light.

There are two ways in which chlorine washed chicken (or filtered milk for that matter) could provide benefits.

The first is to make current foodstuffs even safer.

The second is to allow more contaminated food to meet current standards.

Which route do you think food manufacturers will choose?

[coppercone2]

I wonder how much of it relates to not wanting to develop the proper cold technologies for processing.

[Zero999]

I believe the opposition to US chicken in the UK is not how it's grown, but the processing. In the UK, chicken is very hygienically butchered and processed after slaughter, so there's no need to wash it. In the US, the chicken isn't butchered and processed to the such high hygiene standards, so it needs to be washed in chlorine disinfectant to clean it.

I am open to this being true but I can not find any evidence that it is, in fact, true. Only FUD that seems to be coming from the UK poultry industry which is, as a source, suspect at best as I'm sure you know.

I saw it on BBC news. It included a clip of unhygienic chicken processing in the US. When it was dropped on the dirty floor, it was not thrown away, because it was going to be washed in chlorine disinfectant.

I'm fully aware of the fact it might be propaganda. It was around Brexit (can't remember whether it was just before or after the referendum). The BBC clearly supported remain and wanted to paint any potential deal with the US or any other country in a bad light.

There are two ways in which chlorine washed chicken (or filtered milk for that matter) could provide benefits.

The first is to make current foodstuffs even safer.

The second is to allow more contaminated food to meet current standards.

Which route do you think food manufacturers will choose?

Of course they'll do whatever is easier and can get away with.

Manufacturers have to comply with the food standards. The question is whether the US standards are less stringent than those ion the UK? Unfortunately it's not something I can find objective data on.

[PlainName]

Edit: forget it. It just arose from some whataboutery trolling which, obviously, was successful.

[Monkeh]

That video is nonsense.. In an old installation with cold water header tank feeding the hot water system, a mixer tap can be safely used with a non-return valve fitted.
https://showerpowerbooster.co.uk/blog/check-valves-non-return-valves/

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/13802657/mum-claims-rotting-rat-water-kids-sick

https://bpca.org.uk/news-and-blog/dealing-with-dead-rodent-odours/275960

https://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/couples-horror-after-discovering-whats-33291060

I could go on, but it's graphic enough to drive the point home.
Before you ask, I have mixer taps, and had never been in a place in EU where this wasn't the norm.

The point you want to drive home: The UK is bad because you've seen two taps in some houses and that means the water is unsafe. This is called FUD.
The reality: Older, gravity fed hot water systems were not hygenic enough to drink the heated water, and we used separate taps to keep potable water separate from non-potable. If left in an even less fit state, they can become actively hazardous.. just like the cold water supply from a for-profit company which puts all its money into shareholders hands, not infrastructure.

Some older systems still exist - indeed, I have an unpressurised, gravity fed system for both the heating loop and the hot water. And mixer taps. And a tightly sealed header tank which doesn't have rats in it, because I maintain my house. The 'problem' doesn't exist and doesn't need fixing - but I could indeed switch to a mains pressure tank and a pressurised heating loop. Many, many properties have. Anywhere built in the last probably 30 years, maybe longer, doesn't need to because it never had an open header.

[Monkeh]

As for the ongoing chlorinated chicken debate, I present trivially located science to demonstrate how chlorine is not the perfect solution to bacterial contamination: https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/mbio.00540-18

And how about Consumer Reports finding ineffectively washed chicken essentially everywhere they looked: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/02/the-high-cost-of-cheap-chicken/index.htm

Bleaching chicken is not the solution to world hunger. It's a route to bigger profit margins. We don't need it to have a supply of affordable, safe chicken. And we do not need your slightly cheaper chicken both reducing food safety and undermining our own industry.

[Cyclotron]

As for the ongoing chlorinated chicken debate, I present trivially located science to demonstrate how chlorine is not the perfect solution to bacterial contamination: https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/mbio.00540-18

And how about Consumer Reports finding ineffectively washed chicken essentially everywhere they looked: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/02/the-high-cost-of-cheap-chicken/index.htm

Bleaching chicken is not the solution to world hunger. It's a route to bigger profit margins. We don't need it to have a supply of affordable, safe chicken. And we do not need your slightly cheaper chicken both reducing food safety and undermining our own industry.

Look who woke up. Monkeh, you're not so obtuse to believe that what you dug up supports your view that your countries methods are better, do you?

You know, maybe you might want to stick to name calling. You did get it right once. At least I think that Monkeh is a very good name for you. You make me laugh like a I might imagine a Monkeh doing.   

[Analog Kid]

As for the ongoing chlorinated chicken debate, I present trivially located science to demonstrate how chlorine is not the perfect solution to bacterial contamination: https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/mbio.00540-18

And how about Consumer Reports finding ineffectively washed chicken essentially everywhere they looked: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/02/the-high-cost-of-cheap-chicken/index.htm

Bleaching chicken is not the solution to world hunger. It's a route to bigger profit margins. We don't need it to have a supply of affordable, safe chicken. And we do not need your slightly cheaper chicken both reducing food safety and undermining our own industry.

Look who woke up. Monkeh, you're not so obtuse to believe that what you dug up supports your view that your countries methods are better, do you?

You know, maybe you might want to stick to name calling. You did get it right once. At least I think that Monkeh is a very good name for you. You make me laugh like a I might imagine a Monkeh doing.   

I've taken to calling him Monkey-Brains.

BTW, he's one of those chaps who has degraded the use of the word "troll" to mean someone who posts things he disagrees with vehemently, to the point that the term has become essentially meaningless. Which is a shame, as actual trolls do exist, much as actual racists also exist, even though that term has been similarly exhausted by being loosely used.

[Cyclotron]

As for the ongoing chlorinated chicken debate, I present trivially located science to demonstrate how chlorine is not the perfect solution to bacterial contamination: https://journals.asm.org/doi/full/10.1128/mbio.00540-18

The "science" you report on is for chlorinated salad wash. Maybe your chickens look different? Your own country uses the method on your salad. Maybe you don't eat salad?

And how about Consumer Reports finding ineffectively washed chicken essentially everywhere they looked: https://www.consumerreports.org/cro/magazine/2014/02/the-high-cost-of-cheap-chicken/index.htm

Bleaching chicken is not the solution to world hunger. It's a route to bigger profit margins. We don't need it to have a supply of affordable, safe chicken. And we do not need your slightly cheaper chicken both reducing food safety and undermining our own industry.

Safe handling of food is not news my guy. The same findings are true in all processes. Go test your local cluck cluck, if you can pick it out for the salad.

[tszaboo]

This is called FUD.

FUD is something else.

The point you want to drive home: The UK is bad because

No, just recently some people from the UK (including you) in this thred, with their perching went on my nerves, so I just pointed out some nice things about their country. To step on their toes.
Which they proceeded to call me a liar, as always. Even though what I wrote was completely true. When you go for a debate, just remember that facts don't care about your feelings.

Because this is how it goes:
We say X
No there is no X you are a liar
We post proof of X
You move the goalpost and call us nazi or racist or whatever

And then you are surprised that nobody cares about your opinions anymore, and we just want to win this cw and be done with it.

[Cyclotron]

I've taken to calling him Monkey-Brains.

BTW, he's one of those chaps who has degraded the use of the word "troll" to mean someone who posts things he disagrees with vehemently, to the point that the term has become essentially meaningless. Which is a shame, as actual trolls do exist, much as actual racists also exist, even though that term has been similarly exhausted by being loosely used.

So, I did venture into these parts of EEVblog sort of by accident but due to being bored and looking for something to do. I don't typically participate in Social media of any form due to the mire of it all.

I believe you and I have sided differently on at least one or two topics. I don't mind having differences. I actually like it. I find more information by listening to those that have a different opinion that I do that those that agree with me. That doesn't mean it will always change my mind, but I like to think I do make adjustments.

Monkeh jumps on things like, well, a Monkeh would, as I imagine. I get tickled by his name calling and illustrated levels of unbridaled appearance of ignorance.
The person is unwilling to consider that they are the problem or that their reasoning has flaws.

A person such as we used to say, you know when to run is when they say "I'm a good Christian."  There's only so much fun I'll have though before that too gets boring.
.....

This topic seems reasonable for a forum focused on so much that are impacted by trade barriers of many types. We ran a significant analysis on our platforms at work to understand the potential for impact. Due to so much of our stuff being part of the Western nations security, we manufacture a lot onshore so we have limited exposure.

I know that the topic likely only came up because "OMG the Donnie is doing something, it must be bad." But, as I've said, the guy ran on the platform and the majority of the voters in the US signed up. It is amazing that he's doing what he said he'd do and I'm not pleased with the ham-fisted nature.  But you can't argue that it hasn't had success. It is likely we'll have to see this in the review mirror at some point to really understand if it was successful or not.

But, when we talk internationally, we have to understand that the lens of "success" isn't the same across borders. Each country almost certainly wants the best deal for themselves. I posted a link yesterday where the EU seems to be bragging about beating the UK. I found that hilarious in the context of the bragging done by the Trump.

Anyways, good sport. Love the discussions.

[Zero999]

No, just recently some people from the UK (including you) in this thred, with their perching went on my nerves, so I just pointed out some nice things about their country. To step on their toes.
Which they proceeded to call me a liar, as always. Even though what I wrote was completely true. When you go for a debate, just remember that facts don't care about your feelings.

For clarification. I never called you a liar. I just said the video you posted contained misinformation about the UK having separate hot and cold taps. Mixer taps are common in the UK and can be safely fitted to gravity fed systems, because a non-return valve prevents back-feeding..

There are other bad things about our water supply. Older houses have lead pipes, so the water has to be run-off before it is safe to drink.

It's a problem with having old infrastructure. Building standards have improved, yet it's costly to upgrade existing properties to comply so few people do it.

[Monkeh]

Even though what I wrote was completely true.

the UK has two different taps in the kitchen.

I don't have two taps in the kitchen. I doubt a single house on the street has. I know if you go into any of the newer developments they don't. So.. not completely true, partially true. Historically true. Just enough truth to use as fuel for a bad argument.

[Cyclotron]

There are other bad things about our water supply. Older houses have lead pipes, so the water has to be run-off before it is safe to drink.

This^.  The horrible story about Flint Michigan in the US is illustrative of engineering disasters.  Introducing Chlorinated water into old pipes that include lead.
https://www.nrdc.org/stories/flint-water-crisis-everything-you-need-know

[tszaboo]

No, just recently some people from the UK (including you) in this thred, with their perching went on my nerves, so I just pointed out some nice things about their country. To step on their toes.
Which they proceeded to call me a liar, as always. Even though what I wrote was completely true. When you go for a debate, just remember that facts don't care about your feelings.

For clarification. I never called you a liar.

No, you personally didn't, but another 3 people did. Ganging up on people.
Remember when we are talking about woke mod and cancel culture?
When you have the same thing happening on twitter, you receive death threats by the thousand after something like this, and you are "just one of these people", maybe even communicating in a normal way.

[Cyclotron]

Sorry, this isn't directly related to tariffs. It segue (fixed sp, ashamed)  into the conversation around trade, food, and differences between the UK, EU, and US.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

[Analog Kid]

"Segways"?
The word you want is "segue", not those stupid tech-bro scooter-thingies.

[tautech]

The UK is continuing the ban on hormone-treated beef. At least as far as I can see in the latest trade deal.

Based on emotion and not science.

Beef hormone implants we tried some decades back did increase estrogen in the meat about equivalent to that in an egg per 100gr.
Animals grew to heavier kill weights faster and the fat dispersion was better and less post slaughter trimming was required.
Implants got banned here primarily due to the processing chains inability to segregate it. 

From what I can see, the US lifted its ban on UK beef (Mad Cow-related) in 2020.
It's been a while, but I thought that mad cow was due to the beef being fed meat and bone meal from beef and sheep?

Yup, but due to inadequate processing of the byproducts before reentering the food chain.
Probably never would have been an issue if it was restricted to swine feed.