Tariffs

[tszaboo]

No, just recently some people from the UK (including you) in this thred, with their perching went on my nerves, so I just pointed out some nice things about their country. To step on their toes.
Which they proceeded to call me a liar, as always. Even though what I wrote was completely true. When you go for a debate, just remember that facts don't care about your feelings.

For clarification. I never called you a liar.

No, you personally didn't, but another 3 people did. Ganging up on people.
Remember when we are talking about woke mod and cancel culture?
When you have the same thing happening on twitter, you receive death threats by the thousand after something like this, and you are "just one of these people", maybe even communicating in a normal way.

[Cyclotron]

Sorry, this isn't directly related to tariffs. It segue (fixed sp, ashamed)  into the conversation around trade, food, and differences between the UK, EU, and US.

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

[Analog Kid]

"Segways"?
The word you want is "segue", not those stupid tech-bro scooter-thingies.

[tautech]

The UK is continuing the ban on hormone-treated beef. At least as far as I can see in the latest trade deal.

Based on emotion and not science.

Beef hormone implants we tried some decades back did increase estrogen in the meat about equivalent to that in an egg per 100gr.
Animals grew to heavier kill weights faster and the fat dispersion was better and less post slaughter trimming was required.
Implants got banned here primarily due to the processing chains inability to segregate it. 

From what I can see, the US lifted its ban on UK beef (Mad Cow-related) in 2020.
It's been a while, but I thought that mad cow was due to the beef being fed meat and bone meal from beef and sheep?

Yup, but due to inadequate processing of the byproducts before reentering the food chain.
Probably never would have been an issue if it was restricted to swine feed.

[Analog Kid]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

This is apparently due to the efforts of RFK Jr. I agree with him on these policies, trying to eliminate harmful substances from our diet and return to natural foods from synthetics.

What I'm less sure about is his anti-vax belief, which has led to a purge of the vaccine policy-making body in the NIH which does not look good. Time will tell here where this all leads.

(While I have my doubts about how the COVID vaccine was handled, it's clear that we still need to continue with the other ones to prevent returning to the bad old days of measles, polio, etc.)

[Cyclotron]

"Segways"?
The word you want is "segue", not those stupid tech-bro scooter-thingies.

Well that was an embarrassing one.  Good catch.

[Cyclotron]

The UK is continuing the ban on hormone-treated beef. At least as far as I can see in the latest trade deal.

Based on emotion and not science.

Beef hormone implants we tried some decades back did increase estrogen in the meat about equivalent to that in an egg per 100gr.
Animals grew to heavier kill weights faster and the fat dispersion was better and less post slaughter trimming was required.
Implants got banned here primarily due to the processing chains inability to segregate it. 

From what I can see, the US lifted its ban on UK beef (Mad Cow-related) in 2020.
It's been a while, but I thought that mad cow was due to the beef being fed meat and bone meal from beef and sheep?

Yup, but due to inadequate processing of the byproducts before reentering the food chain.
Probably never would have been an issue if it was restricted to swine feed.

What we need are some of those Japanese cattle. I think some have been bread in Australia and NZ too?  Stuff em with nuts and sell that steak for amazing prices.
But boy, is that stuff good. Wagyu? WagYum!

[Zero999]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

This is apparently due to the efforts of RFK Jr. I agree with him on these policies, trying to eliminate harmful substances from our diet and return to natural foods from synthetics.

What I'm less sure about is his anti-vax belief, which has led to a purge of the vaccine policy-making body in the NIH which does not look good. Time will tell here where this all leads.

(While I have my doubts about how the COVID vaccine was handled, it's clear that we still need to continue with the other ones to prevent returning to the bad old days of measles, polio, etc.)

There is genuine concern over moving existing vaccines, with a good safety record to new technologies such RNA, rather than being anti-vax, but that's a whole other topic.

The UK is continuing the ban on hormone-treated beef. At least as far as I can see in the latest trade deal.

Based on emotion and not science.

That doesn't mean it's an invalid argument. People get emotional about food. It's normal. If people don't want the authorities to approve hormone treated beef or whatever, because they don't like the idea, then there's nothing wrong with that. It's no different to people not wanting to buy pork sausages and find out they've got horse meat in them.

From what I can see, the US lifted its ban on UK beef (Mad Cow-related) in 2020.
It's been a while, but I thought that mad cow was due to the beef being fed meat and bone meal from beef and sheep?

Yup, but due to inadequate processing of the byproducts before reentering the food chain.
Probably never would have been an issue if it was restricted to swine feed.[/quote]
It was the brain and spinal cord which were the problem.

[vad]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

This is apparently due to the efforts of RFK Jr. I agree with him on these policies, trying to eliminate harmful substances from our diet and return to natural foods from synthetics.

Is there scientific evidence that natural dyes are safer than synthetic dyes? Just curious.

[tautech]

The UK is continuing the ban on hormone-treated beef. At least as far as I can see in the latest trade deal.

Based on emotion and not science.

Beef hormone implants we tried some decades back did increase estrogen in the meat about equivalent to that in an egg per 100gr.
Animals grew to heavier kill weights faster and the fat dispersion was better and less post slaughter trimming was required.
Implants got banned here primarily due to the processing chains inability to segregate it. 

From what I can see, the US lifted its ban on UK beef (Mad Cow-related) in 2020.
It's been a while, but I thought that mad cow was due to the beef being fed meat and bone meal from beef and sheep?

Yup, but due to inadequate processing of the byproducts before reentering the food chain.
Probably never would have been an issue if it was restricted to swine feed.

What we need are some of those Japanese cattle. I think some have been bread in Australia and NZ too?  Stuff em with nuts and sell that steak for amazing prices.
But boy, is that stuff good. Wagyu? WagYum!

We've had a few Wagyu herds in NZ for decades however like for any breed unless you have some demand chain for it there is no premium paid for it so you might just as profitably farm any breed that best suits your operation.

At one time we were totally Hereford, breeding our own and growing them on to finishing weights and then we went to using some terminal sires creating natural hybrid vigor and also using hormone implants in all the male offspring to finish them into some wonderful cattle and the hybrids out shone the traditional breeds.

New breeds are coming on stream all the time and now our youngest son that runs this joint now has a small herd of Speckle Park cattle and they do grow into fine animals although I'm not convinced on their ease of calving having had to help pull a good few out. 
Prices at slaughter are at record highs in NZ and driven by USA market prices which we are led to believe are due to US beef shortages where (getting back on topic) the newly set 15% tariff for NZ imports doesn't make any sense at all but what does when a bull in a China shop now runs the joint ?

[Cyclotron]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

This is apparently due to the efforts of RFK Jr. I agree with him on these policies, trying to eliminate harmful substances from our diet and return to natural foods from synthetics.

What I'm less sure about is his anti-vax belief, which has led to a purge of the vaccine policy-making body in the NIH which does not look good. Time will tell here where this all leads.

(While I have my doubts about how the COVID vaccine was handled, it's clear that we still need to continue with the other ones to prevent returning to the bad old days of measles, polio, etc.)

I would agree. There's a lot of balance to be done though.


Purity of food is a good goal. Keeping production at levels that can feed a world and keep essentials economically available.
The majority of the world's poor probably eat more whole foods than most 1st world countries.

Vaccines have a proven track record. But we can't let companies have complete immunity of harm as it is today. It is also good to continue to question and research even the old. This is scientifically sound. I'd love to hear we eliminated heavy metals from our vaccines. I for one, grew up in the 70s and 80s and breathing the fumes of leaded gasoline probably made me the A-hole I am today. We could use less of that.

And the other issue. The revolving door of regulators and the companies they regulate. I don't know how to balance this but its important to note that the people in charge of watching are also the watched.

[Zero999]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

This is apparently due to the efforts of RFK Jr. I agree with him on these policies, trying to eliminate harmful substances from our diet and return to natural foods from synthetics.

Is there scientific evidence that natural dyes are safer than synthetic dyes? Just curious.

It depends on the dye.

Most natural dyes are found in vegetables, such as beta-carotene and anthocyanins for example.

No doubt there are many safe synthetic dyes, but I can understand why many people would rather avoid them.

[Cyclotron]

We've had a few Wagyu herds in NZ for decades however like for any breed unless you have some demand chain for it there is no premium paid for it so you might just as profitably farm any breed that best suits your operation.

At one time we were totally Hereford, breeding our own and growing them on to finishing weights and then we went to using some terminal sires creating natural hybrid vigor and also using hormone implants in all the male offspring to finish them into some wonderful cattle with the hybrids out shone the traditional breeds.

New breeds are coming on stream all the time and now our youngest son that runs this joint now has a small herd of Speckle Park cattle and they do grow into fine animals although I'm not convinced on their ease of calving having had to help pull a good few out. 
Prices at slaughter are at record highs in NZ and driven by USA market prices which we are led to believe are due to US beef shortages where (getting back on topic) the newly set 15% tariff for NZ imports doesn't make any sense at all but what does when a bull in a China shop now runs the joint ?

Oh I think we are certainly in the spirit of this subject. Agriculture is such a huge part of trade and the tariffs applied. You really took me down a memory lane. I grew up rather poor, on a farm and I was in the "Future Farmers of America" program in school. We studied a lot of agriculture but, as my father once noted, I'm lazy and I should do everything I can to make a living in AC.  He was right even if he an alcoholic asshole.

I think that tariff protections are fair game to protect nations "cultural" roots to the land as much as it can be balanced. I can't disagree that the current US president is a "blunt" instrument. I'll share one thought more on that.

When he was shot, I was watching live. I do not know if what I saw was the act of stupidity or bravery. So often these two traits can mingle. But to see a person stand up, hold his fist high and challenge the situation, even at a moment when no one knew if it was over, that impressed me.  I think we saw a bit of real there and I can respect that.

[Analog Kid]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

This is apparently due to the efforts of RFK Jr. I agree with him on these policies, trying to eliminate harmful substances from our diet and return to natural foods from synthetics.

Is there scientific evidence that natural dyes are safer than synthetic dyes? Just curious.

You know what? I don't know, and I don't fucking care.
I don't want to put synthetic shit in my body.
My body, my decision.
I intentionally don't buy any meat that has sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite in it.
Is there "scientific evidence" that these substances are harmful? Inconclusive, apparently.
It's still my god-damn decision whether to ingest these things or not.
Unless you're in favor of a totalitarian government that essentially dictates what people can and cannot eat, because of business decisions that trump individual choice (intentional pun there).

[tszaboo]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

This is apparently due to the efforts of RFK Jr. I agree with him on these policies, trying to eliminate harmful substances from our diet and return to natural foods from synthetics.

What I'm less sure about is his anti-vax belief, which has led to a purge of the vaccine policy-making body in the NIH which does not look good. Time will tell here where this all leads.

(While I have my doubts about how the COVID vaccine was handled, it's clear that we still need to continue with the other ones to prevent returning to the bad old days of measles, polio, etc.)

There is genuine concern over moving existing vaccines, with a good safety record to new technologies such RNA, rather than being anti-vax, but that's a whole other topic.

The arguments again... Kennedy presented data that shows issues with Thimerosal. It's a controversial additive to say the least. So it's now in his power to remove it, to either make the vaccines actually safer, or to reassure people that this controversial additive is removed. So that more people will take the vaccines. Win-win either way.
MSM: Anti vaxxer Kennedy removes completely safe additive that contains Mercury.
  Make it make sense.

[tautech]

When he was shot, I was watching live. I do not know if what I saw was the act of stupidity or bravery. So often these two traits can mingle. But to see a person stand up, hold his fist high and challenge the situation, even at a moment when no one knew if it was over, that impressed me.  I think we saw a bit of real there and I can respect that.

Watched the footage and only comment is to hang the guy that missed doing us all a favor. 

[Analog Kid]

Kennedy presented data that shows issues with Thimerosal. It's a controversial additive to say the least. So it's now in his power to remove it, to either make the vaccines actually safer, or to reassure people that this controversial additive is removed. So that more people will take the vaccines. Win-win either way.
MSM: Anti vaxxer Kennedy removes completely safe additive that contains Mercury.
  Make it make sense.

Yeah, inject a substance that's 50% mercury: what could possibly go wrong?
I don't understand that, just as I don't understand dentists using "amalgam" for tooth fillings that also contains mercury.
I mean, mercury is a well-known, well-studied virulent poison. An amalgam doesn't even make the mercury bond to other atoms: it's an alloy, for chrissakes. So how can that possibly be safe in our mouths?

(I've got quite a few amalgam fillings, and I feel just fine .. I think ... ack ... choke ... *phhzzzzz*)

[Cyclotron]

When he was shot, I was watching live. I do not know if what I saw was the act of stupidity or bravery. So often these two traits can mingle. But to see a person stand up, hold his fist high and challenge the situation, even at a moment when no one knew if it was over, that impressed me.  I think we saw a bit of real there and I can respect that.

Watched the footage and only comment is to hang the guy that missed doing us all a favor. 

Eww. I can't wish for the murder of a person. I honestly think he's an asshole but I also think he wants good outcomes for the US. Passions seem to run too high these days. History will judge us all and Trump especially.

I really really disliked the last Canadian prime minister. I couldn't wish for his demise either. Putin in that camp too, want to seem him out, not offed'.

Cheers

[tautech]

When he was shot, I was watching live. I do not know if what I saw was the act of stupidity or bravery. So often these two traits can mingle. But to see a person stand up, hold his fist high and challenge the situation, even at a moment when no one knew if it was over, that impressed me.  I think we saw a bit of real there and I can respect that.

Watched the footage and only comment is to hang the guy that missed doing us all a favor. 

Eww. I can't wish for the murder of a person.

Well what self-respecting marksman would've missed that shot just to add an ear piercing. 

I really really disliked the last Canadian prime minister. I couldn't wish for his demise either. Putin in that camp too, want to seem him out, not offed'.

For some, pushing up daisies is the only effective solution due to their hellbent approach to protecting their own empire building and prohibiting their people from exercising democracy.
At least Canada have a democratic process.
The Chinese don't but look at how their empire has changed for the benefit of many.

[Cyclotron]

The Chinese don't but look at how their empire has changed for the benefit of many.

The US system mathematically pushes us towards polarization. Modifications to allow voting hierarchies would have a better but still not 100% fair process.

Each party claims the election was "stolen" from them and do everything in their power to manipulate the voting system.  Power seeks power.

[vad]

https://www.npr.org/sections/shots-health-news/2025/05/19/nx-s1-5401042/food-dye-synthetic-natural-trump-fda-maha

This appears to clock with the science around these things needing to be removed from our food supply. I see this as a very positive move the right direction for the US FDA.
I will take the progress if we can get it.

This is apparently due to the efforts of RFK Jr. I agree with him on these policies, trying to eliminate harmful substances from our diet and return to natural foods from synthetics.

Is there scientific evidence that natural dyes are safer than synthetic dyes? Just curious.

You know what? I don't know, and I don't fucking care.
I don't want to put synthetic shit in my body.
My body, my decision.
I intentionally don't buy any meat that has sodium nitrate or sodium nitrite in it.
Is there "scientific evidence" that these substances are harmful? Inconclusive, apparently.
It's still my god-damn decision whether to ingest these things or not.
Unless you're in favor of a totalitarian government that essentially dictates what people can and cannot eat, because of business decisions that trump individual choice (intentional pun there).

Well, it is your body and your money, so you can put whatever “shit” you want into it. If you believe that “natural” is inherently safer than “synthetic shit”, I have bad news for you. The most deadly poisons and toxins have a natural origin (ricin, cyanide, botulinum toxin, …). And it is not the “shit” itself, but the dose that kills. You can die from drinking too much natural spring water, while botulinum toxin (the active ingredient in Botox), in small doses, can be harmless to your health.

As for totalitarian practices, is banning safe synthetic food dyes now considered free-market capitalism?

[Analog Kid]

[If you believe that “natural” is inherently safer than “synthetic shit”, I have bad news for you. The most deadly poisons and toxins have a natural origin (ricin, cyanide, botulinum toxin, …). And it is not the “shit” itself, but the dose that kills. You can die from drinking too much natural spring water, while botulinum toxin (the active ingredient in Botox), in small doses, can be harmless to your health.

Your faith in "science"* here is touching.
Regarding "natural" vs. synthetic, I'll take natural most any day, thank you very much.
Because you see, I don't indiscriminately stuff just anything "natural" in my cake-hole. Certainly never too much natural spring water (ackshooly, I drink the tap water here which is plenty good) Ricin? cyanide? botulinum? not on my diet, at least not if I can help it.

As for totalitarian practices, is banning safe synthetic food dyes now considered free-market capitalism?

I would say not, which makes the recent decision to ban those food colors a bit surprising, as it pretty much goes against the grain of Trump's free-market libertarianism. I think the true free-market capitalists would just as soon be able to sell whatever they deem profitable without any kind of pesky regulation.

* "Science" by whose rules? The manufacturers and vendors of those substances?
You must be pretty naive if you believe in the "science" that results in gov't. regulation, or the lack thereof.
Ever heard of something called "Big Pharma"?

[Monkeh]

The arguments again... Kennedy presented data that shows issues with Thimerosal. It's a controversial additive to say the least. So it's now in his power to remove it, to either make the vaccines actually safer, or to reassure people that this controversial additive is removed. So that more people will take the vaccines. Win-win either way.
MSM: Anti vaxxer Kennedy removes completely safe additive that contains Mercury.
  Make it make sense.

Who brought up Thimerosal? It seems to me they were addressing the massive funding cut to mRNA research, and the replacement of the members of the ACIP with those more likely to do his bidding.

The Thimerosal issue, of course, is one he's actively campaigned to put in the minds of the public. And done a lot of lying about. Actually, he seems to do a lot of lying in general. Or at least makes repeated mistakes in public statements, never learns, never corrects his errors.. These errors, if that's what they are, matter, because people listen to him. Why, I can't fathom.

[vad]

* "Science" by whose rules? The manufacturers and vendors of those substances?
You must be pretty naive if you believe in the "science" that results in gov't. regulation, or the lack thereof.
Ever heard of something called "Big Pharma"?

I think Professor Dave has the best answer to your science denial, Big Pharma, and other “shit” RFK and MAHA is putting into the heads of their supporters:



PS. If you’re also into flat Earth, chemtrails, and other “shit”, he has great videos on those topics too.

[Analog Kid]

Look; there's science, real, bona fide, reproducible-results research undertaken by objective practitioners.

Then there's "science" with a priori results by those hired by businesses who want their problematic products sold no matter what.

Check out, for instance, the history of PFAS, and the "science" that convinced us for decades that there was nothing to worry about. Now every single person on Earth carries traces of these chemicals in their body.