Tariffs

[themadhippy]

And people would be shareholders

And that be the biggest failure point,some people don't want to share,they must have the biggest slice.

[tggzzz]

People are trying to find sense in this whole crazyness. Its underlying philosophy seems to be "the accelerationism" and it is tech related. Claims that "capitalism is the same thing as AI" seem to be depicted from an SF movie yet this is how some important people in power seem to think. No wonder its impossible to communicate with them. They have this idea of AI monarchy (at the ideological level) and that world is going in that direction so why try to stop it ? Better destroy "the Cathedral" pillars: education, legacy free press, democracy, etc and embrace and hasten the coming of AI. Nation states should disappear and be replaced by "The Networked State" that would be ruled as a company by efficiency and profit. And people would be shareholders.

The UK government has (allegedly, unofficially, believably!) indicated it is not worth wasting time thinking about what President Chamberlain might do in the future.

One observation is that if people feel excluded from "temple X", they are far more likely to not care if "temple X" is pulled down, or to even want that. In the US, such temples are healthcare, higher education, welfare, housing, etc. Such psychology is unsurprising. It can be compounded by "end days" mentality or fear of the future.

[MK14]

Looking round the political news and similar sources (recently), then filtering it, to stay within the electronics and similar industries, it seems.

That there are real worries, that currently, decent, hardworking, well paid, electronics engineers (as well as related people, such as software experts/developers).  Could end up deciding to leave the US.  Hence a significant brain drain from America.

Similarly, the flow of suitably qualified/experienced/talented, electronics engineers (and similar), into the US, could somewhat dry up.

Even potential upcoming electronics hobbyists (who may have then studied/worked, in the future) in electronics/computing, may be put off.  If the ready supply of very cheap electronic parts/PCBs(custom) and stuff, very affordable even for upcoming hobbyists, who have not left home yet, or are still studying.

Could be partly hard-hit, if the prices of such things, goes up considerably, because of tariffs.

I.e. Instead of growing the electronics and other high tech industries, it could have the opposite effect.

[rteodor]

[...]
One observation is that if people feel excluded from "temple X", they are far more likely to not care if "temple X" is pulled down, or to even want that. In the US, such temples are healthcare, higher education, welfare, housing, etc. Such psychology is unsurprising. It can be compounded by "end days" mentality or fear of the future.

Yep, the article also touched the subject of "escathology" - probably the first time I heard it - its a theology branch that has the end of the world as its subject. Can't tell much about theology but it seems to explain the strange join of forces between rednex and Big Tech. Somehow social media makes this "temples" visible and desirable but unattainable. And by doing it repeatedly people can be driven to the solution of "let's burn it all". Or let's make the end of the world come now - which is the same thing.

[tggzzz]

That there are real worries, that currently, decent, hardworking, well paid, electronics engineers (as well as related people, such as software experts/developers).  Could end up deciding to leave the US.  Hence a significant brain drain from America.

Not just electronics/software and engineering. Science is being gutted by many layoffs.

[tggzzz]

[...]
One observation is that if people feel excluded from "temple X", they are far more likely to not care if "temple X" is pulled down, or to even want that. In the US, such temples are healthcare, higher education, welfare, housing, etc. Such psychology is unsurprising. It can be compounded by "end days" mentality or fear of the future.

Yep, the article also touched the subject of "escathology" - probably the first time I heard it - its a theology branch that has the end of the world as its subject. Can't tell much about theology but it seems to explain the strange join of forces between rednex and Big Tech. Somehow social media makes this "temples" visible and desirable but unattainable. And by doing it repeatedly people can be driven to the solution of "let's burn it all". Or let's make the end of the world come now - which is the same thing.

There's long been a small group of such nutters in the USA. Let's hope none of them are ever in a position to emulate General Jack D Ripper in Dr Strangelove.

[zapta]

We are now at gutted science and the end of the world.

No surprise the people rejected the far left in Nov 2024.

[Zero999]

Um, that part of the conversation was about tariffs and bond markets, not covid.

Then why are you talking about it?

If you include the relevant context (cf snipping it to make a strawman argument), it is much clearer.

No, because it's against the forum rules and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

That there are real worries, that currently, decent, hardworking, well paid, electronics engineers (as well as related people, such as software experts/developers).  Could end up deciding to leave the US.  Hence a significant brain drain from America.

Not just electronics/software and engineering. Science is being gutted by many layoffs.

There has been a genuine problem with governments funding junk science. It's good much of it has been cut, but again I don't see how it's relevant to the subject of tariffs.

The tariffs aren't on services, so I don't see how they will affect things such as design. It's true that much of the design work has been offshored already.

[TimFox]

Recent news:  the pause on electronics tariffs is very temporary.
https://www.axios.com/2025/04/13/trump-tariffs-exemption-electronics-temporary

[tom66]

Everything from this president is temporary, since he'll change his mind when he speaks to the next person or watches the next Faux News broadcast.

[zapta]

Everything from this president is temporary, since he'll change his mind when he speaks to the next person or watches the next Faux News broadcast.

He is flexible and responses to reality but the goals are very clear and are long overdue.

[tggzzz]

Um, that part of the conversation was about tariffs and bond markets, not covid.

Then why are you talking about it?

If you include the relevant context (cf snipping it to make a strawman argument), it is much clearer.

No, because it's against the forum rules and has absolutely nothing to do with the topic.

That there are real worries, that currently, decent, hardworking, well paid, electronics engineers (as well as related people, such as software experts/developers).  Could end up deciding to leave the US.  Hence a significant brain drain from America.

Not just electronics/software and engineering. Science is being gutted by many layoffs.

There has been a genuine problem with governments funding junk science. It's good much of it has been cut, but again I don't see how it's relevant to the subject of tariffs.

The tariffs aren't on services, so I don't see how they will affect things such as design. It's true that much of the design work has been offshored already.

I presume that by "junk science" you are (in the life sciences alone) referring to immunisations and vaccination, testing and analyzing samples for drug-resistant gonorrhea, allergies, infectious diseases, cancer research and treatments, various rare diseases, etc. There have been wholesale budget removals and redundancies in all of those.

"To my friends, everything; to my enemies, the law".

[Infraviolet]

My guess is for hobbyist and small business quantites of electronic parts to the USA the adminstration of tariffs, like delays at borders, sellers who aren't set up to handle it, logistics companies which add a big fee for the mere fact that import duties are involved... are a lot more damaging than the amount of the tariffs.

[tggzzz]

Recent news:  the pause on electronics tariffs is very temporary.
https://www.axios.com/2025/04/13/trump-tariffs-exemption-electronics-temporary

A couple of days ago the administration's officials were simultaneously completely contradicting each other.

Don't try to double-guess President Chamberlain. Everybody who worked with him in his previous administration says the most important factor is to be the last person to talk with him on a subject.

Don't attempt to find coherent thoughts and plans. While it would be nice if they existed, all evidence is that they don't.

[tggzzz]

My guess is for hobbyist and small business quantites of electronic parts to the USA the adminstration of tariffs, like delays at borders, sellers who aren't set up to handle it, logistics companies which add a big fee for the mere fact that import duties are involved... are a lot more damaging than the amount of the tariffs.

That's been the experience with Brexit, which has added so much red tape that some small exporters just gave up. Some large foreign companies couldn't be bothered with the hassle, so don't sell to a small offshore island any more.

[alpher]

Don't have a horse in this race, just curious why in the thread about tarrifs that affect in major part  USA and China most of the postst came from either UK or EU based posters?
 

[TimFox]

There are also changes either imposed or planned on imports from UK and EU into the US.

[Gyro]

Don't have a horse in this race, just curious why in the thread about tarrifs that affect in major part  USA and China most of the postst came from either UK or EU based posters?

I doubt you will see a proportionate number of posts from China, can't think why! I think there have also been posts from Canada and Australia though. We (the rest of the world) are all affected.

[tom66]

There are also changes either imposed or planned on imports from UK and EU into the US.

There are already 10% higher tariffs than there were before this president's term, plus 25% on foreign made cars and some other tariffs on minor goods.   The 145% tariff on China is insane, but truthfully doesn't impact most of us in Europe.

[PlainName]

The 145% tariff on China is insane, but truthfully doesn't impact most of us in Europe.

Wouldn't be too sure of that. I read an article the other day when iPhones and the like were still included in that, and the suggestion was that they would be too expensive for Americans but cheap elsewhere. However, it pointed out that a good option (for Apple) would be to suck up the tariff costs and only charge Americans a little but more, and then recoup the rest of the tariff cost by raising the price in the rest of the world.

tl;dr: Could be Europe that pays for the tariff on China too.

[floobydust]

The clown car continues... 

"“NOBODY is getting ‘off the hook,'” Trump said on Truth Social Sunday. “There was no Tariff ‘exception’ announced on Friday. These products are subject to the existing 20% Fentanyl Tariffs, and they are just moving to a different Tariff ‘bucket.’”

“We are taking a look at Semiconductors and the WHOLE ELECTRONICS SUPPLY CHAIN in the upcoming National Security Tariff Investigations.” 

[MK14]

The 145% tariff on China is insane, but truthfully doesn't impact most of us in Europe.

Wouldn't be too sure of that. I read an article the other day when iPhones and the like were still included in that, and the suggestion was that they would be too expensive for Americans but cheap elsewhere. However, it pointed out that a good option (for Apple) would be to suck up the tariff costs and only charge Americans a little but more, and then recoup the rest of the tariff cost by raising the price in the rest of the world.

tl;dr: Could be Europe that pays for the tariff on China too.

Firstly, the iPhone is just one item, out of a huge number, such as tens of thousands (or whatever the range should be expressed as), we can buy in the UK/EU, rest of the world.

Secondly, if Apple charge crazy amounts for the iPhone in the rest of the world and/or UK/EU.  We are free to buy a range of other items, WITHOUT any extra US (indirect) tariffs.

Thirdly, the people of America, will have to pay these extra taxes tariffs, on all sorts of imported goods.  But in practice even home produced goods, because many of them, consist of a high percentage of imported parts and raw-materials.

Finally, I don't think Apple are really going to do, what you suggest, in practice.

The selling prices, are (as I understand it), very carefully calculated and researched, (sadly) often reflecting on how high people are willing to pay, and at what selling price, they (the company selling those items), will maximize profits at.

[MT]

What's the point of this thread? I think Dave was perfectly aware it was a political timebomb and still created it in the hope of eliciting interesting discussions about the possible consequences for EEs and electronics businesses in general, and hopefully ways to deal with the foreseeable issues, which I think was the whole point. Otherwise it's just an endless thread of whining about how the world must absolutely get rid of Trump one way or another and so probably has no place in a EE forum whatsoever. Just my 2 cents, never mind me and please keep going.

Ofcourse you are right but the whole purpose of this thread is to get a Greenland MAGA cap and the tariffs seams to do it!

[MK14]

The clown car continues... 

"“NOBODY is getting ‘off the hook,'” Trump said on Truth Social Sunday. “There was no Tariff ‘exception’ announced on Friday. These products are subject to the existing 20% Fentanyl Tariffs, and they are just moving to a different Tariff ‘bucket.’”

“We are taking a look at Semiconductors and the WHOLE ELECTRONICS SUPPLY CHAIN in the upcoming National Security Tariff Investigations.” 

Some sources (if my somewhat quick, and not paying full 100% attention, understanding things correctly), is that badly clowning around with tariffs, (perhaps) WITHOUT getting it properly researched, agreed by top economists, who can advise the President of the US, etc.

Could cause such bad effects, that the US, loses the fact that the dollar ($), is THE currency, around the world. (World's Reserve Currency).

That could have bad economic (and other) effects on America, far exceeding, the original intentions of messing around with tariffs, in the first place.

[Analog Kid]

That could have bad economic (and other) effects on America, far exceeding, the original intentions of messing around with tariffs, in the first place.

Let's hope so.
It'll be a well-deserved payback for the more than a century misery the United States of Amnesia has visited on the rest of the world.