Tariffs

[tggzzz]

The good ole uk ,in its rush to bend over  seems to have forgotten  to read the small print.over 400 new tariffs up to 25% have just landed on our doorstep

Reference?

[themadhippy]

Reference?

original article was in the times,but thats behind a pay wall
https://www.msn.com/en-gb/money/other/donald-trump-sneakily-slaps-uk-with-tariffs-on-hundreds-of-products-up-to-25/ar-AA1L6Swy

[BrianHG]

At least now when I travel abroad, I now know any imported beef I consume will be Canadian instead of American.

This counts for Europe, Japan and Australia.

[Zero999]

importers must declare the exact amount of steel, copper, and aluminum in products, with a 100% tariff applied to these materials

No-o-o-o 

Taxes which have complex regulations are one of my pet hates.

Fortunately, it should be fairly easy to calculate how much copper a PCB contains. In the meantime, whilst a suitable script is being written and tested, they could just give the worst case figures, i.e. that for an unetched PCB. That would make more sense than simply refusing to ship.

[tom66]

Fortunately, it should be fairly easy to calculate how much copper a PCB contains. In the meantime, whilst a suitable script is being written and tested, they could just give the worst case figures, i.e. that for an unetched PCB. That would make more sense than simply refusing to ship.

Only if you have the CAD data.  Otherwise, you need the manufacturer to provide that information, and some manufacturers may not be able or willing to do so.  Some boards could be years old, may be unsupported by a manufacturer or the manufacturer may not exist any more.

The whole point of HS tariff coding is to break products down to the largest single reasonable categorisation, so that a simple tariff can be applied.  So if the US wants to protect its native soybean industry, they can do so by applying a tariff to "1201.x Soya beans whether or not broken".  No one is importing PCBs to just extract their copper to outcompete native suppliers and expecting importers to list the percentage raw materials in each package is beyond asinine.

[tszaboo]

Come on, who are you kidding.
The Copper content of the PCB for such purposes is 0%.
They obviously want to apply the tariffs if you make a machinery which has copper or steel parts.
Don't do this "reductio ad absurdum", if you do that everything can be ridiculed.

[tom66]

Come on, who are you kidding.
The Copper content of the PCB for such purposes is 0%.
They obviously want to apply the tariffs if you make a machinery which has copper or steel parts.
Don't do this "reductio ad absurdum", if you do that everything can be ridiculed.

It sounds like the "reductio ad absurdum" is being done by US Customs & Border Protection, or at least UPS and DHL are insisting upon it.

Of course it is unreasonable to measure the copper content of a PCB when importing it in to the country, but it is not as if customs officials (of any nation) have always had the best grasp of the practical realities of the policies they implement.

[tggzzz]

Come on, who are you kidding.
The Copper content of the PCB for such purposes is 0%.
They obviously want to apply the tariffs if you make a machinery which has copper or steel parts.
Don't do this "reductio ad absurdum", if you do that everything can be ridiculed.

I'm glad you have a hotline to the inspectors, and that they will listen to what you say.

Could you do the same with the other tariffs, please. We would all be very grateful.

[tggzzz]

importers must declare the exact amount of steel, copper, and aluminum in products, with a 100% tariff applied to these materials

No-o-o-o 

Taxes which have complex regulations are one of my pet hates.

Fortunately, it should be fairly easy to calculate how much copper a PCB contains. In the meantime, whilst a suitable script is being written and tested, they could just give the worst case figures, i.e. that for an unetched PCB. That would make more sense than simply refusing to ship.

There is copper in component leads, etc.

If you incorporate a component, let's say an encapsulated PSU or inductor, how will you account for the Cu in that?

[floobydust]

The good ole uk ,in its rush to bend over  seems to have forgotten  to read the small print.over 400 new tariffs up to 25% have just landed on our doorstep

Reference?

Saw the article Monday- but not on any mainstream new sites, so I assumed it's fake 
"Trump Slaps New Tariffs on UK Goods, Blindsiding Manufacturers" {CityAM}
https://oilprice.com/Geopolitics/International/Trump-Slaps-New-Tariffs-on-UK-Goods-Blindsiding-Manufacturers.html

[tggzzz]

Saw the article Monday- but not on any mainstream new sites, so I assumed it's fake 

Nah. Must be an MSM conspiracy. What else could it possibly be?

[floobydust]

Trump's technique, from the "Art of the Deal" is to keep things noisy, a little threat here and there, use fake press to test the waters or spook an opponent.
Then you change the terms of the deal etc. etc. Almost got a deal? Claim you have one.

I like Canada's approach: bend over, assume the position and take it The nation is in no position (pun intended) to be in a trade war with any county.
We have a bit of retaliation on American liquor, many provinces no longer buying any. So the producers are squawking and sales way down. Not sure if that will change as they demand we let them in to sell booze.

[tszaboo]

or at least UPS and DHL are insisting upon it.

Of course it is unreasonable to measure the copper content of a PCB when importing it in to the country, but it is not as if customs officials (of any nation) have always had the best grasp of the practical realities of the policies they implement.

Yes, of course they are. It's like when they say they will not export items from the US because import tariffs.
Like they are either so much of a dumdum that they don't get the idea of an import tariff. Or they are malicious when they are making these company policies, and using it as a tool to upset people. "oh no, I cannot ship things because of these tariffs, orange man bad"
It's like when CNN lies about the same thing a thousand times, then they are taken to court and fined. The end goal was to tell the lies a thousand times, and some people will only remember that.

[Cyclotron]

We have a bit of retaliation on American liquor, many provinces no longer buying any. So the producers are squawking and sales way down. Not sure if that will change as they demand we let them in to sell booze.

I think that the largest beer manufacturers are owned by EU companies, and the bourbon is owned by Japanese companies. There are a few impacts on US companies for the diminished sales in Canada, as far as I know. The most significant impacts would be to local "mom and pop" and mid-sized wine sellers. Wine from California, which is squarely against the Trump administration, so that's an interesting impact.

The demand loss is likely to reduce costs for products in the US. I'm not sure the ban on US alcohol is going be seen as a big problem for the typical US citizen consumer of libations.

[langwadt]

Come on, who are you kidding.
The Copper content of the PCB for such purposes is 0%.
They obviously want to apply the tariffs if you make a machinery which has copper or steel parts.
Don't do this "reductio ad absurdum", if you do that everything can be ridiculed.

It sounds like the "reductio ad absurdum" is being done by US Customs & Border Protection, or at least UPS and DHL are insisting upon it.

Of course it is unreasonable to measure the copper content of a PCB when importing it in to the country, but it is not as if customs officials (of any nation) have always had the best grasp of the practical realities of the policies they implement.

so it is:

customs: you have to do a thing
shipper: ok, how do I do the thing?
customs: you figure it out
shipper: ok, you can't tell how to do the thing, what if I get it wrong?
customs: then you will be punished
shipper: ok, I think I'll just wait until you tell me exactly how to do the thing, because I don't want to be punished for guessing wrong

[Monkeh]

Come on, who are you kidding.
The Copper content of the PCB for such purposes is 0%.
They obviously want to apply the tariffs if you make a machinery which has copper or steel parts.
Don't do this "reductio ad absurdum", if you do that everything can be ridiculed.

It sounds like the "reductio ad absurdum" is being done by US Customs & Border Protection, or at least UPS and DHL are insisting upon it.

Of course it is unreasonable to measure the copper content of a PCB when importing it in to the country, but it is not as if customs officials (of any nation) have always had the best grasp of the practical realities of the policies they implement.

so it is:

customs: you have to do a thing
shipper: ok, how do I do the thing?
customs: you figure it out
shipper: ok, you can't tell how to do the thing, what if I get it wrong?
customs: then you will be punished
shipper: ok, I think I'll just wait until you tell me exactly how to do the thing, because I don't want to be punished for guessing wrong

Oddly enough, I've just come across someone describing this exact absurdity in real life in the US (somewhere in the US, I didn't get the specifics). Subject matter: Locating underground services, specifically as an emergency to resolve a loss of service. You call a number (811), you ask for an emergency location - you'll be told there's a $1000 fine if it doesn't count as an emergency. If you ask them if it counts as an emergency, they will refuse to answer. If you ask them to define an emergency for the purposes of this fine, they will refuse to answer. Your only options are to get them out and hope they do not fine you, or not get underground location done. If you choose the latter, you will not get anyone to dig a hole for you, and you're on the hook if you hit anything.

What a wonderful way of doing business.

[tggzzz]

Has nobody heard of the term "Kafkaesque"?

[tggzzz]

There might be some clues as to how the tariffs will work in this thread https://www.eevblog.com/forum/manufacture/import-china-to-us-ups-shipper-and-tariff-charges/msg6024289/#msg6024289

I am Humpty Dumpty, and I am the master of the word "work" in the above paragraph.

[themadhippy]

I've just come across someone describing this exact absurdity in real life in the US (somewhere in the US, I didn't get the specifics).

sounds like Derby indiana

[Analog Kid]

Has nobody heard of the term "Kafkaesque"?

That immediately sprang to mind upon reading about that surreal situation above.
Two things:
1. Go watch "The Trial". But not the remake! See the Orson Welles original with Anthony Perkins.
2. My favorite Kafka quote:

"In the fight between you and the world, back the world."

[Analog Kid]

I've just come across someone describing this exact absurdity in real life in the US (somewhere in the US, I didn't get the specifics).

sounds like Derby indiana

Derby, IN?
What does that have to do with anything?

[themadhippy]

What does that have to do with anything?

open yer eyes and read wot woz wrote

(somewhere in the US, I didn't get the specifics

I saw  the same movie and was filling in the missing specifics

[Monkeh]

I've just come across someone describing this exact absurdity in real life in the US (somewhere in the US, I didn't get the specifics).

sounds like Derby indiana

'tis a disturbingly small world on YT..

[wilfred]

I've just come across someone describing this exact absurdity in real life in the US (somewhere in the US, I didn't get the specifics).

sounds like Derby indiana

That was my thinking. Several here may have similar YT watching habits.

[tggzzz]

I've just come across someone describing this exact absurdity in real life in the US (somewhere in the US, I didn't get the specifics).

sounds like Derby indiana

'tis a disturbingly small world on YT..

Given the quality of most of the videos, I'd think it was so small that the word "inbred" should be used