Author Topic: Tariffs  (Read 412105 times)

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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2550 on: October 11, 2025, 08:00:01 am »
Here's a surprise. Not :(

Thousands of U.S.-bound packages shipped by UPS are trapped at hubs across the country, unable to clear the maze of new customs requirements imposed by the Trump administration.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/usa-ups-headsup-ups-discarding-packages-not-meeting-customs-requirement/
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Offline factory

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2551 on: October 11, 2025, 07:29:07 pm »
Just received this email from fleabay...

Quote
Your Global Shipping Programme listings are active for US buyers again

We know the new US import regulations have been challenging. So we’re pleased to share that we’ve added Country of Origin details to some of your listings. This means we’ve been able to reactivate them for the Global Shipping Programme, so those listings are now available to US buyers again.

What this means for you:
  • Country of Origin is required for listings to be available to US buyers through the Global Shipping Programme. This information is used to calculate duties, taxes, and import fees.
  • Where reliable information is available, we’ve already added Country of Origin details using trusted data sources.
  • You know your items best, so please add the Country of Origin wherever you can. Any information you provide will override eBay's selection.
Coverage will expand over time, and in the coming months, you’ll have more ways to view and manage Country of Origin information selected by eBay for your items.

I wonder how accurate fleabay's guess as to the country of origin is, and whether that information (and lack thereof) will be challenged by the US authorities.

For example, some Tek scopes were produced in the USA and some elsewhere; I doubt fleabay distinguishes! Or are the weights of steel and aluminium important?

It's not feebay guessing, I listed some old dead tree based product recently and once submitted I noticed the US was absent from the country list for GSP shipping. Revising the listing to complete the "Country/Region of Manufacture" item specific and it now has shipping to the US.
But really this was a complete waste of time as no one in the US would want to pay the shipping costs, that probably exceed the cost of buying the item locally and the quoted cost is about four times that to ship to the EU.

David
 

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2552 on: October 11, 2025, 10:04:42 pm »
Here's a surprise. Not :(

Thousands of U.S.-bound packages shipped by UPS are trapped at hubs across the country, unable to clear the maze of new customs requirements imposed by the Trump administration.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/usa-ups-headsup-ups-discarding-packages-not-meeting-customs-requirement/

Dayum; packages being "disposed of" or "discarded" (i.e., destroyed).
You'd think the carrier would have the legal responsibility to put those disputed shipments in some kind of escrow, stack them in a warehouse somewhere until their status is resolved.

You'd think.
 

Offline AVGresponding

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2553 on: October 12, 2025, 08:38:02 am »
Here's a surprise. Not :(

Thousands of U.S.-bound packages shipped by UPS are trapped at hubs across the country, unable to clear the maze of new customs requirements imposed by the Trump administration.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/usa-ups-headsup-ups-discarding-packages-not-meeting-customs-requirement/

Dayum; packages being "disposed of" or "discarded" (i.e., destroyed).
You'd think the carrier would have the legal responsibility to put those disputed shipments in some kind of escrow, stack them in a warehouse somewhere until their status is resolved.

You'd think.

That would cost them money, significant amounts of it, I should think, so they will avoid doing that wherever possible
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Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2554 on: October 12, 2025, 08:48:02 am »
Here's a surprise. Not :(

Thousands of U.S.-bound packages shipped by UPS are trapped at hubs across the country, unable to clear the maze of new customs requirements imposed by the Trump administration.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/usa-ups-headsup-ups-discarding-packages-not-meeting-customs-requirement/

Dayum; packages being "disposed of" or "discarded" (i.e., destroyed).
You'd think the carrier would have the legal responsibility to put those disputed shipments in some kind of escrow, stack them in a warehouse somewhere until their status is resolved.

You'd think.

That would cost them money, significant amounts of it, I should think, so they will avoid doing that wherever possible

Yes, of course I get that.
The question remains, what legal responsibility do they have to retain such shipments? Isn't there some prohibition against just getting rid of them? Some long-standing convention of commerce that you don't just pitch cargo overboard?
 

Online ifonlyeverything

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2555 on: October 12, 2025, 02:15:38 pm »
Two of the jlcpcb shipments arrived without any extra tax or paperwork. Make sure to select the shipping options that includes duties to be paid by shipper.

Thanks for letting us know. I wonder if this will hold true after the 10/10/25 announcement of 100% tariffs (in addition to the existing tariffs) on Chinese imports beginning on 11/1/25.  |O |O |O
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2556 on: October 12, 2025, 02:28:57 pm »
Two of the jlcpcb shipments arrived without any extra tax or paperwork. Make sure to select the shipping options that includes duties to be paid by shipper.

Thanks for letting us know. I wonder if this will hold true after the 10/10/25 announcement of 100% tariffs (in addition to the existing tariffs) on Chinese imports beginning on 11/1/25.  |O |O |O

I just saw that. China has now restricted exports of rare earth to everyone, and the admin is going to impose 100% tariffs in retaliation.
Seems they are supposed to be having some talks, so hopefully this is all just genitalia wagging before some sort of deal is made.

One has to wonder why world leadership allowed China to become a near single source for processed rare earth minerals.
 

Online themadhippy

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2557 on: October 12, 2025, 02:57:32 pm »
Quote
One has to wonder why world leadership allowed China to become a near single source for processed rare earth minerals.
if you have the largest reserves of minerals you tend to control the market.Suppose you could start a phoney war in the name of freedom/stopping  terrorism to get your hands on them,  but nobody would do  that would they
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2558 on: October 12, 2025, 03:20:31 pm »
Quote
One has to wonder why world leadership allowed China to become a near single source for processed rare earth minerals.
if you have the largest reserves of minerals you tend to control the market.Suppose you could start a phoney war in the name of freedom/stopping  terrorism to get your hands on them,  but nobody would do  that would they

That is a fact, the current amount of identified deposits puts China at number one with 40% and Brazil at number two with 20%.
But that's irrelevant. There's no shortage of rare earths. I know the name implies rarity, but for the demand we need, the rarity of the minerals isn't a problem.
These numbers about who has the most is also not relevant because there's no pressure to discover new deposits/sources.

What is rare, at least outside of China, is extraction and processing. China processes nearly all rare earth minerals. Brazil holds the second largest deposits, but all of that competition is processed in?  You guessed it, China.

The US, AU, IN, and others likely have enough to supply the world for our needs in technology and renewable energy. Countries do go to war for resources, but I don't see anyone going to war with China to take their factories/processing plants. I don't know, maybe build some?
 

Offline dietert1

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2559 on: October 12, 2025, 06:19:35 pm »
I think imposing 100 % import taxes once more is a violation of recent agreements, so one can already call this an economic war. And insufficient supply of neodymium magnets will only be one of the future problems of the US.
Friday evening there was an unexpected rise of the Euro to Brasilian Real exchange rate, so there is some panic and big investors left trade and bought US $ instead.

Regards, Dieter
« Last Edit: October 14, 2025, 10:11:06 am by dietert1 »
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2560 on: October 12, 2025, 07:51:43 pm »
I think imposing 100 % import taxes once more is a vioation of recent agreements, so one can already call this an economic war. And insufficient supply of neodymium magnets will only be one of the future problems of the US.
Friday evening there was an unexected rise of the Euro to Brasilian Real exchange rate, so there is some panic and big investors left trade and bought US $ instead.

Regards, Dieter

Do you have a link to the agreements? I've not seen anything, and the search turns up nothing. What does the retaliatory tariff violate?

China's recent changes to rare earth export controls apply to companies and countries worldwide that use China-origin rare earths, especially those in defense, electric vehicles (EVs), and semiconductors, as well as companies that have used Chinese mining, processing, or magnet-making technology. The new regulations require foreign companies to get government approval for exporting products that contain even trace amounts of Chinese-origin rare earths or use Chinese technology

I have only seen news of the US responding to China's changes.
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2561 on: October 12, 2025, 09:13:48 pm »
On another front, Trump just raised the tariffs on illegal drugs to perpetual care in an afterlife.
 
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Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2562 on: October 12, 2025, 10:35:32 pm »
On another front, Trump just raised the tariffs on illegal drugs to perpetual care in an afterlife.

So you actually believe that all those people Trump murdered (because that's the only word for it) in those "drug boats" were actually hauling drugs, bound for the US?

Really? Little teeny-tiny boats that couldn't possibly have made that ocean crossing?
Boats where we've been given absolutely no evidence who the occupants were or what they were doing?
Boats that could have--should have--been intercepted instead of blown out of the water, if in fact they were reasonably suspected of hauling drugs? (Some of them turned out to be fishermen.)

Obviously this whole thing is just a pretext for his next "regime change" operation in Venezuela.

And you're a fucking idiot for falling for that bullshit.
« Last Edit: October 12, 2025, 10:47:34 pm by Analog Kid »
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2563 on: October 12, 2025, 11:24:11 pm »
On another front, Trump just raised the tariffs on illegal drugs to perpetual care in an afterlife.

That's pretty sadistic but funny. I'm sure they were just out for pleasure rides on those high-speed boats.

Such interactions on the high seas have been going on for a long time. My brother used to fly AWACS over the southern corridors to provide locations of the boats. Now, years later, after it became public, he's talked about it. I recall seeing some of it in portrayals on Miami Vice back in the day. Cigarette boats and such were even in the intro. 

On topic, though, Mexico and other countries appear to be doing more intervention too. I don't know if its due to tariffs but something has encouraged them.
At least that's what some of my friends who work in that area are telling me.
 

Online TimFox

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2564 on: October 12, 2025, 11:33:10 pm »
Interception of boats on the high seas by the Coast Guard, including firing on the engines if the boat refuses to stop, followed by search, arrest, and seizure is normal.  The current administration is fetishizing lethality, a traditional Christian virtue.
[sarcasm]
 

Offline jpanhalt

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2565 on: October 13, 2025, 03:44:12 am »
On another front, Trump just raised the tariffs on illegal drugs to perpetual care in an afterlife.
And you're a fucking idiot for falling for that bullshit.
 

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2566 on: October 13, 2025, 07:17:32 am »
Normally I wouldn't post such a wall o'text, but this is well worth adding to the discussion.
This comes from Bernhard's Moon of Alabama site, posted 10/11/25 (link). (There are a lot of links in the original which I've omitted, so go there if you want references to quotes.) This is not my writing.

U.S.-China Trade War Reaches New Level
Trump’s tariff war has somewhat settled down but for China.

Trump has, like his predecessor, limited exports of high-end semiconductor chips to China. He also stopped the export of machines and chemicals used to produce chips to China. These measures are extra-territorial. The Dutch company ASML is prohibited to sell its high-end machines for chip production to China because parts of them contain goods or software made in the U. S. of A.

After Trump imposed additional high tariffs on goods from China the country hit back by limiting exports of rare earth elements. China has a near monopoly on these elements. These are needed to produce modern electric motors, magnets and various sensors and semiconductors the U.S. needs. China has also stopped the import of soy-beans, one of the main products U.S. mid-west farmers depend on.

Trump had to pull back and did so. Tariffs were temporarily lowered and negotiations with China continued. A new trade agreement was supposed to signed later this month when President Trump and President Xi would meet in South Korea.

But U.S. negotiators under Secretary of Commerce Howard Lutnick tried to play hardball. In late September, during the talks,  they imposed further restrictions on China:

Quote
On September 29, 2025, the U.S. Department of Commerce’s Bureau of Industry and Security (BIS) released a long-anticipated interim final rule (IFR) that will result in the most dramatic expansion of U.S. export control regulations in years. The IFR, “Expansion of End-User Controls To Cover Affiliates of Certain Listed Entities,” extends export restrictions to any company owned 50% or more, directly or indirectly, by any of the thousands of entities already designated on several Commerce and Treasury Department lists.

The IFR would also impose a new duty on exporters to investigate the ownership of an end user where there is reason to believe a designated entity holds a minority stake, or is affiliated with, the end user, subject to a strict liability standard for violations.
The new measures would severely restrict any export of high tech goods to China.

The country responded in kind:

Quote
Chinese Commerce Ministry (MOFCOM) announced on Thursday that in order to safeguard national security and interests, the ministry will impose export controls on rare earth-related technologies, including rare earth mining, smelting and separation, magnetic material manufacturing, and rare earth secondary resource recycling.
…
Technologies and relevant date related to rare earth mining, smelting and separation, metal smelting, magnetic material manufacturing, and rare earth secondary resource recycling, as well as the assembly, debugging, maintenance, repair, and upgrade of related production lines are prohibited from export without permission, the statement said.
Rare earth elements are used in many U.S. weapons. Each F-35 fighter jet includes some 418 kilogram of rare earth elements, a U.S. destroyer 2,600 kg, a nuclear submarines 4,800 kg. The U.S. has currently no means to produce these themselves.

There was more to the new Chinese regulation than it seemed:

Quote
This is actually big, potentially huge, notably because China’s new rare earth export controls include a provision (point 4 here: https://mofcom.gov.cn/zwgk/…) whereby anyone using rare earths to develop advanced semiconductors (defined as 14nm-and-below) will require case-by-case approval.

Which effectively gives China de-facto veto power over the entire advanced semi-conductor supply chain as rare earths are used at critical steps throughout – from ASML (who use rare earths for magnets in their lithography machines: https://asml.com/en/news/storie…) to TSMC.

The export controls are also extra-territorial: foreign entities must obtain Chinese export licenses before re-exporting products manufactured abroad if they contain Chinese rare earth materials comprising 0.1% or more of the product’s value.

So China is effectively mirroring the US semiconductor export controls that were used against them, with its own comprehensive extraterritorial control regime, except with rare earths.
The most advanced semiconductors produced today also use some rare-earth elements. Under China’s new rules each chip sale will need to be licensed by China to ensure that it will not be used for military purposes. If the new rules are handled strictly the U.S. AI-boom will soon go bust.

Rare earth are not the only field where new Chinese export rules are set to apply:

Quote
Not only did they announce the unprecedented rare earths restrictions that I posted about earlier 👇 (targeted, among others, at the advanced semiconductors sector) but they issued 4 consecutive announcements in total with other export controls on:

– The machines and expertise to process rare earths – not just the rare earths themselves, but all the specialized equipment and technical know-how to turn rare earth into usable materials (obviously making it all the harder to try to move rare earth processing away from China)
– High-performance batteries – specifically those above 300 Wh/kg needed for long-range EVs and advanced drones. And, again, export controls on all the factory equipment to make them too.
– The materials inside batteries – both graphite anodes and cathode materials (the two electrodes that are essential for batteries to function at all). Export controls also cover the specialized equipment to manufacture all of these components.
– Industrial diamonds and cutting tools – the ultra-hard materials that are used ubiquitously in precision manufacturing, for instance to cut silicon wafers for computer chips

This is absolutely unprecedented. With this China effectively gets veto power over three critical supply chains simultaneously: advanced semiconductors (via rare earths and related equipment), battery-powered vehicles and drones, and precision manufacturing across industries (via superhard materials).

It will all officially take effect on November 8, in one month.
China’s move is not really aimed at restricting exports. It just wants to discipline U.S. trade negotiators and push them back in support of free trade:

Quote
During the last round of negotiations with senior American officials in Madrid last month, China’s chief trade negotiator, Vice Premier He Lifeng, asked for the full removal of tariffs and export controls, The Wall Street Journal has reported. The latest rare-earth action, the people said, is a tactic aimed at achieving that goal.
The U.S. has yet to get understand that. Its response to China’s latest move as predictable as it is doomed to fail:

Quote
Donald J. Trump @realDonaldTrump – Oct 10, 2025, 20:50 UTC

It has just been learned that China has taken an extraordinarily aggressive position on Trade in sending an extremely hostile letter to the World, stating that they were going to, effective November 1st, 2025, impose large scale Export Controls on virtually every product they make, and some not even made by them. This affects ALL Countries, without exception, and was obviously a plan devised by them years ago. It is absolutely unheard of in International Trade, and a moral disgrace in dealing with other Nations.

Based on the fact that China has taken this unprecedented position, and speaking only for the U.S.A., and not other Nations who were similarly threatened, starting November 1st, 2025 (or sooner, depending on any further actions or changes taken by China), the United States of America will impose a Tariff of 100% on China, over and above any Tariff that they are currently paying. Also on November 1st, we will impose Export Controls on any and all critical software.

It is impossible to believe that China would have taken such an action, but they have, and the rest is History. Thank you for your attention to this matter!

DONALD J. TRUMP
PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA

China is well prepared for that move. Its GDP this year will be around 20 trillion. Its total exports per year to the U.S. are around $500 billion, a mere 2.5% of its GDP. China can do without those while the U.S. can not.

What Trump does not get yet is that the U.S. depends more on imports from China than China depends on exporting to the United States. But the markets do understand that.  Trump’s move may well be the black swan event that will lead to their crash.

If Trump doesn’t chicken out of this fight the U.S. economy is doomed.

 
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Offline tautech

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2567 on: October 13, 2025, 08:20:53 am »
Normally I wouldn't post such a wall o'text, but this is well worth adding to the discussion.
.........................

If Trump doesn’t chicken out of this fight the U.S. economy is doomed.
It is pleasing others also see the results of what the bull in a China shop has done.  :-+
Avid Rabid Hobbyist
 
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Offline tggzzz

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2568 on: October 13, 2025, 09:49:11 am »
As predicted by me and others more knowledgeable about the issues, non-tariff barriers are at least as much of a problem as the tariffs themselves.

This is an overview of how implementation of the tariffs (i.e. not the tariffs themselves) screws up trade.
https://www.theguardian.com/business/2025/oct/13/one-europe-biggest-farm-machinery-firms-halts-us-exports-hidden-tariffs-krone
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
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Offline vad

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2569 on: October 13, 2025, 11:36:22 am »
If Trump doesn’t chicken out of this fight the U.S. economy is doomed.
A few billion in crypto, a gift of a luxury yacht, and rights to build a golf course in Shanghai and a hotel in the Forbidden City can expedite the deal.
 

Offline tggzzz

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2570 on: October 13, 2025, 11:53:49 am »
If Trump doesn’t chicken out of this fight the U.S. economy is doomed.
A few billion in crypto, a gift of a luxury yacht, and rights to build a golf course in Shanghai and a hotel in the Forbidden City can expedite the deal.

Don't forget the $400m airliner - allegedly for his presidential library.
There are lies, damned lies, statistics - and ADC/DAC specs.
Glider pilot's aphorism: "there is no substitute for span". Retort: "There is a substitute: skill+imagination. But you can buy span".
Having fun doing more, with less
 

Offline krish2487

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2571 on: October 13, 2025, 12:10:49 pm »
If Trump doesn’t chicken out of this fight the U.S. economy is doomed.
A few billion in crypto, a gift of a luxury yacht, and rights to build a golf course in Shanghai and a hotel in the Forbidden City can expedite the deal.

Don't forget the $400m airliner - allegedly for his presidential library.

More likely, those corporations in the US affected by this move of Trump and those capable of seeing the fallout will pay this protection money instead and TACO.
He doesnt care where he gets his protection money from, just that he gets it.. and with TruthSocial he will spin any narrative to suit his convenience.  :-//
If god made us in his image,
and we are this stupid
then....
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2572 on: October 13, 2025, 01:38:20 pm »
The implications and reasons for what's going on geopolitically are more in-depth than China, Trump, or the US.

China's move wasn't just against the US; it affects everyone. 
Of course, China blames the US, but if they really only wanted to punish the US, it would be easy.

Australia is already in production and is increasing its REE output. The US is producing less than we need, but is well on its way to having the capability to provide for its own REEs. Current timetables are for 2027. I expect recent developments to accelerate those plans. France, Brazil, Vietnam, and others are also actively working to bring production facilities online.

China knows that its ability to dominate the world in REEs is coming to an end. It's also losing its position as the cheapest place to manufacture things, just like every other nation that held that position in the past. The only reason it hasn't so far is that its totalitarian communist government inflicts some pretty harsh things on its people, keeping the rising costs in check.

While it has been a global leadership failure, I lay the position the US finds itself in at the feet of our leadership. We saw it coming in 2012 when China first weaponized its REE production position against Japan.

 

Online themadhippy

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2573 on: October 13, 2025, 01:45:45 pm »
strange aint it everybody jumping up and down claiming those pesky chinese are placing restrictions on who gets its stuff,but no one bats an eyelid when the west imposes  restrictions on who gets there stuff.
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2574 on: October 13, 2025, 02:00:34 pm »
strange aint it everybody jumping up and down claiming those pesky chinese are placing restrictions on who gets its stuff,but no one bats an eyelid when the west imposes  restrictions on who gets there stuff.

All nations wish to protect their power and advance their position in the world.

The issue is that many people and nations have been lulled into believing that free trade would work out in their favor. Instead, it has become increasingly used as a weapon. The debacle that a lot of Europe found itself in when Russia decided to do things it didn't like. They had bought into cheap fuel.

No one should ever be surprised that countries and people are actively out to do things in their favor. Would you rather be ruled by the current UK government or the Russian, Chinese, North Korean, or <insert nation name here>?
 


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