Author Topic: Tariffs  (Read 407138 times)

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Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2700 on: February 21, 2026, 12:43:35 pm »
Good news! The US separation of powers appears to be still intact.  So many said that Trump's court would just approve his wishes.  I guess they get to eat those words now.

I disagree with "The US separation of powers appears to be still intact". In my opinion it is being undermined and eroded very fast.  The fact that it has not totally collapsed does not mean it is intact.


I have no problem with you disagreeing. But be sure your opinion is based on facts rather than others' subjective opinions. The nature of power struggle and politics in the 3 branches of the US government hasn't changed over the past 250 years. The judiciary branch has long had judges who have used their positions for political purposes, on both sides. I don't know of any time in US history where there was a non-biased/non-political court. I don't know where people get that idea.

It's disappointing that the courts do issue political orders, as much as it is disappointing that the executive appears to ignore them, and that Congress does, at times, worse. I don't think the system is perfect, but it self-corrects, though maybe not on the time scale you or I might wish. The will of the people is tough to deliver on, and while the US system is imperfect, it is far from broken or on the verge of collapse.

As far as stability, I'm shocked you'd say China is stable. Are you willingly ignoring the multiple things it has done?

Here are a few that come to mind:
South China Sea aggression?
Intimidation of the Philippines and aerial harassment
Ongoing island militarization
Escalation against Taiwan and Japan
"Justice Mission 2025" Exercises
Economic Coercion and "Weaponized" Trade, targeting non-defense companies, such as clothing companies
Impact to get PCBs made due to compliance (listed right here on this board)
Suddenly halting the rare earth trade with the world
NXP debacle
Bolstering Russia's defense
It's an internal military purge
Latin American intelligence build-up
Cyber Security incursions and thefts
The slavery of its own people in state-imposed forced labor, child labor, human trafficking, and so on.

So, I disagree that China is more stable than the US. I also think the world trades with it despite its supposed morals. Putting greed ahead of morals, China takes advantage of the fact that the world will do that.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2026, 12:47:58 pm by Cyclotron »
 

Offline soldar

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2701 on: February 21, 2026, 01:07:08 pm »
One of the reasons of the success of China has been that they offer traders and investors security and stability.  China today is more stable than the US for traders and investors. You can go and make a deal with them for a decade or two and you have much more chances of them upholding their end of the bargain. OTOH you have no idea what Trump might say next week. It is not China who is rocking the boat.

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Offline soldar

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2702 on: February 21, 2026, 01:28:28 pm »
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Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2703 on: February 21, 2026, 01:43:13 pm »
One of the reasons of the success of China has been that they offer traders and investors security and stability.  China today is more stable than the US for traders and investors. You can go and make a deal with them for a decade or two and you have much more chances of them upholding their end of the bargain. OTOH you have no idea what Trump might say next week. It is not China who is rocking the boat.

I don't think anyone could argue that the US's efforts to restructure trade deals over the past few months haven't raised some trade concerns.
But your views of instability are just profoundly wrong. The graph attached to this post illustrates the "instability" in investing in the US. It's moving up and to the right.
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2704 on: February 21, 2026, 01:51:27 pm »
One of the reasons of the success of China has been that they offer traders and investors security and stability.  China today is more stable than the US for traders and investors. You can go and make a deal with them for a decade or two and you have much more chances of them upholding their end of the bargain. OTOH you have no idea what Trump might say next week. It is not China who is rocking the boat.

 

Online Randy222

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2705 on: February 21, 2026, 02:17:54 pm »
Is it sunny by you today?
Yes, no? No matter, enjoy the day, time is limited.
Tariffs no matter.
 :-DD :-DD
 

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2706 on: February 21, 2026, 09:46:45 pm »
The graph attached to this post illustrates the "instability" in investing in the US. It's moving up and to the right.

So you're a believer in "stonks go up and to the right".

Good luck with that in the years to come ...

Oh, and by the way, you did not address whether China was "stable" in your post above, but instead gave us a laundry list of how you think the Chinese are doing bad things in the world.

Well, pal, I can counter with a similar list for the United States of Amnesia:
  • Still blowing fishermen out of the water for no good reason in Venezuela
  • Threatening to annex Greenland (and Canada!)
  • Still stoking a proxy war (definitely not "unprovoked") in Ukraine
  • Enabling the still-ongoing genocide in Gaza
  • And of course all the tariff shenanigans (to bring this back to somewhat on-topic)
I put much more stock in the Chinese than us these days.
All that "human rights violations" stuff (i.e., the Uyghurs) is very much overblown.
And the economic stuff? Where is it written that a country must provide strategic minerals (rare earths) to an adversary?

If we want China to stop fucking around with us, we should stop fucking around with them.
« Last Edit: February 21, 2026, 09:54:09 pm by Analog Kid »
 
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Offline soldar

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2707 on: February 21, 2026, 10:23:03 pm »
The graph attached to this post illustrates the "instability" in investing in the US. It's moving up and to the right.

So you're a believer in "stonks go up and to the right".

Good luck with that in the years to come ...

Oh, and by the way, you did not address whether China was "stable" in your post above, but instead gave us a laundry list of how you think the Chinese are doing bad things in the world.

Well, pal, I can counter with a similar list for the United States of Amnesia:
  • Still blowing fishermen out of the water for no good reason in Venezuela
  • Threatening to annex Greenland (and Canada!)
  • Still stoking a proxy war (definitely not "unprovoked") in Ukraine
  • Enabling the still-ongoing genocide in Gaza
  • And of course all the tariff shenanigans (to bring this back to somewhat on-topic)
I put much more stock in the Chinese than us these days.
All that "human rights violations" stuff (i.e., the Uyghurs) is very much overblown.
And the economic stuff? Where is it written that a country must provide strategic minerals (rare earths) to an adversary?

If we want China to stop fucking around with us, we should stop fucking around with them.

In general China has been the one interested in stability of markets, free trade, etc. They were happy to sell what they could manufacture and buy from America and from Europe.  It was the US who upset the cart and started restricting trade, banning some sales, putting tariffs on imports, etc. And, as any idiot might expect, China retaliated. To blame China for actions they did as a response to American sanctions is just ridiculous.

Reminds me of "this animal is very evil; when attacked it will defend itself".
Quote
Cet animal est très mechant,
Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
 (La Ménagerie, Theodore P.K.)

This animal is very wicked,
when attacked it will defend itself.

In my opinion all this instability is bad for the whole world and bad for the US. It is alienating US allies and pushing them away from the US. That is a grave mistake.

Imagine the situation with buying a container full of electronic parts from China and putting on a ship with the uncertainty of what might happen when it arrives in the US four or six weeks later. Not knowing with any degree of certainty what tariff might apply or even if it will be allowed in. It is a crazy situation.

And the notion that it will create jobs in the US is quite mistaken.  It takes years to plan and build any kind of substantial factory and no one is going to start the process knowing it will probably not be needed in three years when politics change. Big investments, especially in hi-tech electronics, require millions and long lead times. Investors need security for decades and that is the one thing America cannot provide today.

Look what happened in Venezuela. Trump summoned the big oil companies and told them they were free to invest and drain Venezuela dry and make millions but the meeting did not go as planned because most oil companies do not feel Venezuela is a safe, reliable, predictable place to invest millions, even in US control.

I do not know about Canada, Australia, NZ, etc. but all this bullying, instability, unpredictability, unreliability is seriously pushing European countries closer to the orbit of China. Firstly trade, commerce, then technology and if things continue, militarily.

I insist that, in the long term, all this is bad for the world and bad for the US.
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Offline SteveThackery

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2708 on: February 22, 2026, 12:44:10 am »
All that "human rights violations" stuff (i.e., the Uyghurs) is very much overblown.

You can't be serious! China's human rights record is appalling, and worst of all, it is ongoing. The regime is darkly sinister, autocratic, and oppressive.


Systematic Repression of Uyghurs and Predominantly Muslim Minorities, Mass Arbitrary Detention and Internment

Large-scale internment “re-education” camps have been established in the Xinjiang Uyghur Autonomous Region (XUAR), where Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz and other Muslim minorities have been held without due process. These detentions have involved arbitrary arrest, prolonged incommunicado detention, and extrajudicial internment outside of recognised legal safeguards.
Credible reports describe conditions consistent with torture, cruel or inhuman treatment within these facilities.


Forced Labour and Coercive “Labour Transfers”

UN human rights experts have raised alarms about state-led forced labour programmes affecting ethnic minorities in Xinjiang and beyond, describing them as coercive and potentially amounting to crimes against humanity. Officially framed as “poverty alleviation” or vocational training, these programmes involve systematic labour assignments, surveillance, restrictions on movement, and lack of meaningful consent. Conditions reported include constant monitoring, ideological messaging, punitive consequences for refusal, and removal from one’s home community.


Cultural and Religious Suppression

Efforts to suppress religious practices, language use, and cultural expression are widely documented. These include restrictions on Islamic worship, traditional dress, and minority languages, undermining basic cultural rights. Many governments and international bodies consider these policies part of a broader assault on cultural identity and freedom of religion.


Transnational Repression

Repression of Uyghurs extends beyond China’s borders, with diplomatic pressure, threats, surveillance, and coercive tactics targeting Uyghur communities abroad, including influencing extradition and resettlement decisions.


Forced Labour and Coercive Policies Affecting Tibetans and Other Minorities

United Nations human rights experts have stated that Tibetans face similar coercive labour transfer and training programmes as those documented in Xinjiang, involving military-style training, surveillance, and pressured relocation. These schemes disrupt traditional livelihoods and cultural practices and are described as imposed rather than voluntary, raising serious human rights concerns.

Policies including “whole-village relocation” and sedentarization programmes have displaced thousands of Tibetan pastoralists and rural families from ancestral lands. These programmes are linked to loss of traditional culture, language dilution, ecological disruption, and systemic erosion of Tibetan identity.


Suppression of Civil Liberties and Political Dissent, Freedom of Expression and Association

Authorities systematically restrict freedoms of expression, peaceful assembly, and association, including crackdowns on human rights lawyers, activists, journalists, and dissident. Arbitrary detention, harassment, and legal penalties are used to silence critics, with particular emphasis on movements seen as politically sensitive.


Restrictions in Hong Kong

Since the introduction of the National Security Law, freedoms previously protected under Hong Kong’s semi-autonomous system—especially freedom of speech, protest, and political participation—have been significantly curtailed. Activists, media figures, and political opponents have been arrested or forced into exile under broad and vaguely-defined offences.


Enforced Disappearances, Surveillance, and Due Process Abuses, Arbitrary Detention and Disappearances

Cases of individuals being detained without transparent legal process—sometimes referred to as enforced disappearances or “residential surveillance at a designated location”—raise serious concerns under international law. These practices often involve incommunicado detention, lack of access to counsel, and denial of due process.


Pervasive Surveillance

The expansion of state surveillance technologies, including biometric data collection and digital monitoring, underpins broader control over dissent and minority groups, interfering with privacy and autonomy.


International Law Assessments and Global Concern

Multiple UN mechanisms, human rights organisations (including Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch), and coalitions of states have characterised these patterns as serious human rights violations and, in some aspects, possible crimes against humanity. Calls for independent access, transparency, remedy for victims, and compliance with human rights treaties have been repeated at the UN and in bilateral diplomatic engagements.


I used a number of tools to make that list: Wikipedia, Google searches, and ChatGPT. I used ChatGPT as a "smart" search engine, and it provided a number of links for me to follow. I'm using the basic structure it provided, along with much of the text. Sources include: Human Rights Watch, Republic World, Uyghurs Times, Asianews.it, Voice of America, Wikipedia, Tibetanjournal.com, Congress.gov.

EDIT: I realise this counts as political - I trust the moderators will decide whether it's allowed.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2026, 12:46:56 am by SteveThackery »
 
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Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2709 on: February 22, 2026, 01:08:32 am »
Just a few things in response:

o I didn't say China was a paragon of human rights observance: I said those allegations are overblown. And they are.

Do people lie and exaggerate "human-rights violations"? Yes, they do it all the time. Remember the bogus "babies ripped from incubators and thrown on the floor" of Iraq in Kuwait? Which turned out to be a total fabrication by people with an agenda. Many other examples exist (currently, Iran and Venezuela).

o Wikipedia, among others, is not anything like a reliable source when it comes to subjects like this.
o Surveillance? Yes, China is doing what practically every other nation on Earth is doing: imposing panopticon spying systems upon its citizens. In this regard I'd hazard a guess that the UK is much farther along, and much worse, in this regard.
o China doesn't maintain the torture prison of Guantanamo.

As usual, pot/kettle/black.
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2710 on: February 22, 2026, 01:38:06 am »
The graph attached to this post illustrates the "instability" in investing in the US. It's moving up and to the right.

So you're a believer in "stonks go up and to the right".

Good luck with that in the years to come ...

Oh, and by the way, you did not address whether China was "stable" in your post above, but instead gave us a laundry list of how you think the Chinese are doing bad things in the world.

Well, pal, I can counter with a similar list for the United States of Amnesia:
  • Still blowing fishermen out of the water for no good reason in Venezuela
  • Threatening to annex Greenland (and Canada!)
  • Still stoking a proxy war (definitely not "unprovoked") in Ukraine
  • Enabling the still-ongoing genocide in Gaza
  • And of course all the tariff shenanigans (to bring this back to somewhat on-topic)
I put much more stock in the Chinese than us these days.
All that "human rights violations" stuff (i.e., the Uyghurs) is very much overblown.
And the economic stuff? Where is it written that a country must provide strategic minerals (rare earths) to an adversary?

If we want China to stop fucking around with us, we should stop fucking around with them.

In general China has been the one interested in stability of markets, free trade, etc. They were happy to sell what they could manufacture and buy from America and from Europe.  It was the US who upset the cart and started restricting trade, banning some sales, putting tariffs on imports, etc. And, as any idiot might expect, China retaliated. To blame China for actions they did as a response to American sanctions is just ridiculous.

Reminds me of "this animal is very evil; when attacked it will defend itself".
Quote
Cet animal est très mechant,
Quand on l'attaque il se défend.
 (La Ménagerie, Theodore P.K.)

This animal is very wicked,
when attacked it will defend itself.

In my opinion all this instability is bad for the whole world and bad for the US. It is alienating US allies and pushing them away from the US. That is a grave mistake.

Imagine the situation with buying a container full of electronic parts from China and putting on a ship with the uncertainty of what might happen when it arrives in the US four or six weeks later. Not knowing with any degree of certainty what tariff might apply or even if it will be allowed in. It is a crazy situation.

And the notion that it will create jobs in the US is quite mistaken.  It takes years to plan and build any kind of substantial factory and no one is going to start the process knowing it will probably not be needed in three years when politics change. Big investments, especially in hi-tech electronics, require millions and long lead times. Investors need security for decades and that is the one thing America cannot provide today.

Look what happened in Venezuela. Trump summoned the big oil companies and told them they were free to invest and drain Venezuela dry and make millions but the meeting did not go as planned because most oil companies do not feel Venezuela is a safe, reliable, predictable place to invest millions, even in US control.

I do not know about Canada, Australia, NZ, etc. but all this bullying, instability, unpredictability, unreliability is seriously pushing European countries closer to the orbit of China. Firstly trade, commerce, then technology and if things continue, militarily.

I insist that, in the long term, all this is harmful to the world and to the US.

As I've said, you can have your opinion. It's mine that you are wildly wrong. I feel the data and science are on my side on this, and so I'll provide links.
The world is not so brittle that it can't survive some trade talks.  It's not so stupid as to play house with the CCP (AK is a fan, though).
I can't stand Trump, but the world survived his first term and will survive this one. China is only interested in the CCP controlling the world. You can call that stability if you like.

Data is better than opinion.
1. We are in the long peace
2. Famine historically low
3. Death from violent crime is at an all-time low globally
4. US manufacturing is growning
5. Folks didn't seem to get the message about not investing in building. While some pullback has happened in the last 5 months, the overall trend is up and to the right.
6. US manufacturing is out of the roof in the tech sector.They didn't get the message about instability and not investing either.
7. The world seems to be doing pretty dang well, given the pandemic and your fears of instability.
8. The US is still committed to its allies.Even as recently as handing over command. Do you feel the US should maintain control for stability?
9. Maybe you hadn't heard about Rubio's standing ovation when calling out the US allies for not paying their fair share, but also stating we remain committed to our allies
10. The chatter and name-calling on countries not paying their share seems to have worked. Canada's Prime Minister has said that Canada fell short on its commitments and is now saying they work towards them in good faith. This means more stability. Sharing the cost and burden is what NATO was supposed to be and should still be.

Look, Trump likes to troll; he's done so a number of times, as you've pointed out. If you don't think the world is strong enough to step up to the challenge of negotiating with him and ignoring his blather, I'm sorry.

I have more faith in the world than that.
« Last Edit: February 22, 2026, 03:16:32 am by Cyclotron »
 

Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2711 on: February 22, 2026, 01:42:20 am »
EDIT: I realise this counts as political - I trust the moderators will decide whether it's allowed.

Agreed, I engaged as others had already done so. Previously, this dumpster fire thread was let go with the intention of containing it in one place.
I am amicable to abate my comments if the administration would like to clamp down.  Just say the word.

AK has stated wants the US to die/end.  You won't have any logical, effective, intelligent, or productive conversations with them. The only true question is why they don't go to China and join the beloved CCP. I'm sure we can set up a GoFundMe, but there will be restrictions on returning.
 

Offline Andy Chee

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2712 on: February 22, 2026, 03:32:20 am »
The graph attached to this post illustrates the "instability" in investing in the US. It's moving up and to the right.

So you're a believer in "stonks go up and to the right".

Good luck with that in the years to come ...
"to the right" indicates moving forward in time on the time axis.  Not sure moving left on the time axis makes any sense.....

(unless you're a time traveller, like Bender in Futurama episode "Bender's Big Score", or Seven of Nine in the ST:VOY episode "Relativity", or the inventors in the movie Primer)


« Last Edit: February 22, 2026, 03:34:09 am by Andy Chee »
 

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2713 on: February 22, 2026, 03:40:45 am »
The graph attached to this post illustrates the "instability" in investing in the US. It's moving up and to the right.

So you're a believer in "stonks go up and to the right".

Good luck with that in the years to come ...
"to the right" indicates moving forward in time on the time axis.  Not sure moving left on the time axis makes any sense.....

It's a god-damned meme, for chrissakes.
Dissecting jokes never ends well.
 

Offline Andy Chee

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2714 on: February 22, 2026, 04:17:48 am »
The graph attached to this post illustrates the "instability" in investing in the US. It's moving up and to the right.

So you're a believer in "stonks go up and to the right".

Good luck with that in the years to come ...
"to the right" indicates moving forward in time on the time axis.  Not sure moving left on the time axis makes any sense.....

It's a god-damned meme, for chrissakes.
Dissecting jokes never ends well.
You may have been citing a meme, but Cyclotron appeared to cite it twice as genuine rationale?
 

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2715 on: February 22, 2026, 05:25:34 am »
It's a god-damned meme, for chrissakes.
Dissecting jokes never ends well.
You may have been citing a meme, but Cyclotron appeared to cite it twice as genuine rationale?

He was, but I'm pretty sure that is just his cockeyed optimism about the future of the 'murican economy, not anything having to do with the "stonks" meme.
 

Offline Andy Chee

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2716 on: February 22, 2026, 05:46:22 am »
It's a god-damned meme, for chrissakes.
Dissecting jokes never ends well.
You may have been citing a meme, but Cyclotron appeared to cite it twice as genuine rationale?

He was, but I'm pretty sure that is just his cockeyed optimism about the future of the 'murican economy, not anything having to do with the "stonks" meme.
That was my point; optimism notwithstanding, there is no rationale in qualifying the direction of time in discussion of stock prices.

By saying "Moving up and to the right", Cylclotron appears to imply that stock prices can also "move down and to the left"

"moving up" is more than sufficient to describe the movement in the graph.

The addition of the superfluous adjective "to the right" seems to be rhetoric rather than fact, as Cyclotron seems to desperately want to convey.
 

Offline Analog Kid

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2717 on: February 22, 2026, 06:31:11 am »
By saying "Moving up and to the right", Cylclotron appears to imply that stock prices can also "move down and to the left"

No. Sheesh; he was just referring to that stupid "stonks" meme.
Do you always take things so literally?
 

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2718 on: February 22, 2026, 08:51:47 am »
All that "human rights violations" stuff (i.e., the Uyghurs) is very much overblown.

You can't be serious!
Steve, it's not worth arguing with these kind of people.
Even if you are right, it makes you look bad. Best is just to move on.
Do it like Trump when talking to reporters, call out the bullshit and ignore any further conversation.
 
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Online Cyclotron

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2719 on: February 22, 2026, 05:24:23 pm »
And this article pops up as the chatter about
tariffs has gotten active again.

It looks like the impacts of the tariffs on China are significant while increasing trade with more of the US's allies. Switzerland, Mexico, Ireland, and Taiwan appear to be big winners. Vietnam, too, though, and there are concerns there around human rights.

Interesting that Canada has had a big fall off.  I wonder if this would have been solved through the Fall's negotiations on trade between the US and Canada had the Ontario government not chosen to run $80 million in US ADs to antagonize Trump. Yes, the Canadians can troll too, but it doesn't appear to have helped, and it cost the taxpayers 80 million to stall trade talks. I'm sure the US AD and broadcast companies loved to take in that 80 million, though.  :palm:

The UK seems to be the big winner, having negotiated a favored position early and believes that will continue with the court ruling.

France appears to be doing very well too. Imports from this ally to the US increased by 20% in 2025 and is projected to remain on that track.

Europe overall is a great ally of the US and is winning with a 15% increase in exports to the US..

India sees 20% growth in exports to the US

Australia also sees 20% increase in exports to the US

In general, the tariffs have been bad for China and have been great for the vast majority of the US allies that have negotiated trade deals. I know folks have insisted that this "instability" in the US is bad for its allies, but I am not seeing any general data to support that claim. In fact its very much the opposite.

The bull in the China shop has really impacted the China shop literally. If you're a big supporter of China, this can't make you happy.
 

Offline PlainName

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2720 on: February 24, 2026, 11:20:04 am »
Now the illegal tariffs have been dropped (and replaced by the globals 10%), FedEx is suing the USA for a refund of those tariffs.

FedEx, of course, paid the tariffs but wasn't out of pocket because they added the tariff amount to their clients bills. So my question is: suppose the tariffs are refunded to FedEx. Do they get to keep the funds or will they (either willingly or via lawsuit) pass those funds back to the vendor of the imports? And, those vendors simply added the tariffs to their customers' bills, so will the refunds finally wend their way back to the American purchaser?
 
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Online pope

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2721 on: February 24, 2026, 11:33:58 am »
Do you really believe that the purchasers will get compensated for all these Big Beautiful Bills they had to pay to Make America Great Again?
 

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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2722 on: February 24, 2026, 11:40:07 am »
Do you really believe that the purchasers will get compensated for all these Big Beautiful Bills they had to pay to Make America Great Again?
That would be logical.
But the end user is supposed to take the initiative.
 

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    • Taupaki Technologies Ltd.
Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2723 on: February 24, 2026, 11:56:23 am »
...............
The bull in the China shop has really impacted the China shop literally. If you're a big supporter of China, this can't make you happy.
The world does not end at US borders so others have not been impacted by US tariffs as the US ppl have been.

Trade with the PRC goes on and with a lower USD impacted by worldwide uncertainty and the impact on exchange cross rates is now to the benefit of consumers of PRC goods everywhere outside the US.
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Re: Tariffs
« Reply #2724 on: February 24, 2026, 03:13:25 pm »
...............
The bull in the China shop has really impacted the China shop literally. If you're a big supporter of China, this can't make you happy.
The world does not end at US borders so others have not been impacted by US tariffs as the US ppl have been.

Trade with the PRC goes on and with a lower USD impacted by worldwide uncertainty and the impact on exchange cross rates is now to the benefit of consumers of PRC goods everywhere outside the US.
@tautech
I'm not sure what you were trying to state or argue in your commentary. I made specific statements that the harm has been to China, and if you're a big supporter of China, that can't make you happy. Do you feel that you sufficiently argued against those points?

You've projected that I feel the world ends at the US border. I haven't made such an argument, nor do I believe such a projection fits my arguments in general. I reject that statement as simply inflammatory without reason.

As for the second argument, are you bragging or complaining?

Fifteen percent loss in exports to the US is a huge hole, and it's as high as 60% in some verticals for China. I agree: if you are a supporter of China or just greedy, looking for a deal, there's an opportunity to do business with China.

As I believe you do significant business with China, this can certainly be beneficial to you, and I won't argue with you about that.
New Zealand has, at the same time, seen very strong export growth to the US of about 15%. That's not to say the US has gifted you anything, but the trade is what most would consider good for your economy.

The trade negotiations will continue until all sides are satisfied with the outcome. The world isn't going to end. On the contrary, things appear to be just fine if not going well. Of course, that is, unless you are financially or emotionally invested in China.
 


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