I'm just guessing as I've used many forums over the years, but forums have post limitations as well as formatting issues. (it's usually a nightmare to post things like that on forums) Perhaps they have a website you can download the off of properly?
Why create PDFs instead of forum posts? Side node: PDFs on EEVblog never open properly in a PDF reader on my machine (unlike other websites).
Why create PDFs instead of forum posts? Side node: PDFs on EEVblog never open properly in a PDF reader on my machine (unlike other websites).Parts 1 & 2 are 48 pages with 61 screenshots and some tables. I for one can't imagine Writing, formating and posting that on the forum with it's totally crappy and clunky way of handling images. Nice work Performa01!
File = Review 02
DC Accuracy, on last page table missing from pdf
Why create PDFs instead of forum posts? Side node: PDFs on EEVblog never open properly in a PDF reader on my machine (unlike other websites).
Can you do a detailed review about decoding where you test all the supported protocols, use the full memory depth, and try to search for an event and navigate in the recorded data?
Is that ever going to happen on this forum?Can you do a detailed review about decoding where you test all the supported protocols, use the full memory depth, and try to search for an event and navigate in the recorded data?
AC trigger coupling does not display a trigger level indicator, which I’m not happy with, but Siglent don’t
seem to be willing to change that.
The trigger level is set to zero which is actually always equivalent to the mean level of a symmetrical input signal.
What is Siglent's reasoning for no AC trigger level indicator, do you know ?
Excellent (rare seen) review, thanks a lot Performa01.
Regarding "an external USB powered 25 MHz AWG module (Option)" from SDS1000X-E data sheet.
Is this "Option" related only to some sort of universal driver software, suit to other brand external AWG too,
or it is strictly and only Siglent module / external AWG required?
Bode plot usage requires no licenses, only the USB AWG HW or any other Siglent AWG.
Bode plot usage requires no licenses, only the USB AWG HW or any other Siglent AWG.
Should this AWG be exclusivelly Siglent brand, or other brand of USB AWG can do too (to proper
communicate with scope over USB for Bode plot support)?
Curently I have Rigol AWG DG1011 and interested, if Siglent scope SDS1104X-E can support it
as external AWG for Bode plot?
Thanks.
Not really happy with such facts which lead to changing lab equipment (seems along with my nick name),
bu what to do - world is not perfect.
Still very impressed with capability of here reviewed scope taking into account its price/performance outcome.
Thanks, Performa01, for a very detailed review. I am trying to figure out the input noise of the scope from your data, section 3 of the review.
When I look at figure on page 64 I would estimate that +/-2 sigma level is about 1 division, so the RMS noise is 125 uV. When I look at RMS noise on the plot on page 67, 16 LSB corresponds to 16*0.5mV*10/250 = 320 uV.
I am wondering if the RMS noise estimate on page 67 comes from the RMS measurement on the scope? In that case it can include the offset as well. It would be interesting to find the standard deviation of the data with shortened input.
Thanks, Performa01, for a very detailed review. I am trying to figure out the input noise of the scope from your data, section 3 of the review.
When I look at figure on page 64 I would estimate that +/-2 sigma level is about 1 division, so the RMS noise is 125 uV. When I look at RMS noise on the plot on page 67, 16 LSB corresponds to 16*0.5mV*10/250 = 320 uV.
I am wondering if the RMS noise estimate on page 67 comes from the RMS measurement on the scope? In that case it can include the offset as well. It would be interesting to find the standard deviation of the data with shortened input.
Thanks.
Not really happy with such facts which lead to changing lab equipment (seems along with my nick name),
bu what to do - world is not perfect.
Still very impressed with capability of here reviewed scope taking into account its price/performance outcome.
Thanks for quick measurements!
I wouldn't trust the rms noise for very short time scale (1 ns/div), because its beyond the bandwidth of the scope, so the data are largely correlated. The flat level of 60 uV rms is more representative of true noise.
As tautech points out, its also important to compare the BW. On many scopes the 1 mV/div scale is BW limited by default to 20 MHz, so for fair comparison it would be good to know the noise level on 20 MHz BW setting.
Well, even though the SDS1104X-E is only a 100MHz scope, the figures get much better with the 20MHz bandwidth limit.
Dots or vectors ?
On many scopes the 1 mV/div scale is BW limited by default to 20 MHz, so for fair comparison it would be good to know the noise level on 20 MHz BW setting.
Thanks, Performa01, for a very detailed review. I am trying to figure out the input noise of the scope from your data, section 3 of the review.
When I look at figure on page 64 I would estimate that +/-2 sigma level is about 1 division, so the RMS noise is 125 uV. When I look at RMS noise on the plot on page 67, 16 LSB corresponds to 16*0.5mV*10/250 = 320 uV.
I am wondering if the RMS noise estimate on page 67 comes from the RMS measurement on the scope? In that case it can include the offset as well. It would be interesting to find the standard deviation of the data with shortened input.
Sine max limit is 25MHz. But this is standardized limit and generation probably don't stop at exactly 25MHz.
Curious what would be practical sine limit regarding sine shape (no matter of possible damped amplitude)?
Could it reach 40 or 50MHz and retain sine shape?
@Performa01
In sequence mode if I understand right you show average max sapeed. (how much time some amount of segments aka "frames". But this is not whole truth about speed. One thing is speed what it can use without missing any trigger.
The most important (and expensive) part of any scope probe is the cable, that should be low capacitance and needs to have some well defined resistance for the inner conductor (around 200 ohms) in order to damp the resonance effects from the ill-terminated characteristic cable impedance. The optimum cable resistance depends on the circuit details of the scope input and on the SP2030A it quite obviously is just right for the SDS2304X, but a tad too high for the SDS1202X-E.
Some people like to replace their multimeter probes immediately after purchase with “sexier” ones and that is perfectly fine (except that I never did it because I have no use for these impractical probes at all in a lab, be they sexy or not). But for a scope, you should not replace the original probes with random ones without a second thought, just because they look sexier or have a higher bandwidth rating – only inexperienced folks do that. You might end up with an unpleasant surprise if you take the time to actually measure the performance of the probe/scope combination. Of course there’s always a chance that it actually fits well, but you should be able to verify that beforehand.
As can be seen, the circuit already contains the standard test setup: Signal generator with 50 ohms source impedance and 50 ohms through termination directly on its output, resulting in a total source impedance of 25 ohms, as seen by the probe.
Just to make sure no one gets alienated or confused by a couple misleading statements I’d like to assure you that probe manufacturers are no cheats. They don’t sell passive high-Z probes rated up to 500MHz just for fun.
Just to make sure no one gets alienated or confused by a couple misleading statements I’d like to assure you that probe manufacturers are no cheats. They don’t sell passive high-Z probes rated up to 500MHz just for fun.IMHO they do. Just do the math when taking the probe capacitance at the tip into account. Usually that capacitance is in the 10pf ball park. At 500MHz the circuit is loaded with a 31 Ohm impedance. With an active FET probe or low-Z probe you'll get a way more true representation of the signals you are measuring. One thing people shouldn't forget is that 'to measure is to interfere'. Less interference means you get more accurate results.
Top left is the interface box SLA1016 that connects to the SDS1004X-E through the Sbus cable at one end. The other end has a 2x34 connector for the ~80cm long high density flat ribbon cable, which in turn connects to the SPL1016 probe head. It is connected in the picture above, but can easily be detached.
500 frequency steps, low res mode ?
First thank this SFRA test and compare with these PC scopes and what have very highly limited frequency range.
Unclear (for me) is: when they say some amount of points for decade... is it really what I think...
SFRA from 999000 Hz to 999500 Hz how many steps... or just normal IF channel filter and SFRA example from 21.375000 MHz to 21.425000 MHz (oops, there was some PC scope limited to 1MHz "audio" so that only somehow usable for 455kHz IF filters). So how these points per decade things...
For IF filters tests of course this is very very limited due to very low dynamic so we do not know "anything" about good filters stop band characteristics. But this is not designed for these. Still many things can do - up to 120MHz depending generator in use.
Only roughly this price class stand alone scopes what have SFRA is Keysight and some chinese GoodWill.
It looks like Kysight have nothing but just feature listed in advertisements (least data sheet what I have seen tell that 10 points/decade)
Top left is the interface box SLA1016 that connects to the SDS1004X-E through the Sbus cable at one end. The other end has a 2x34 connector for the ~80cm long high density flat ribbon cable, which in turn connects to the SPL1016 probe head. It is connected in the picture above, but can easily be detached.
This SPL1016 looks like exactly same SPL1016 what is used with SDS1002X+ models.
Only what I can not see enough clear in images is SLA1016 connector. (ribbon cable between SPL1016 head and SLA1016)
SPL1016 head include electronics, all comparators etc. After this head, in ribbon cable, signal is buffered.
I have used it with SDS1102X+
Now, because this kind of cables wear and damage quite easy in use it is nice if parts can buy separately and not need buy whole set including SLA1016 and SPL1016 together.
But question is: Is this SPL1016 head really same and cable with connectors also exactly same what is used in SDS1002X+ MSO.
If so, only new part is this SLA1016 control and converter box.
Top left is the interface box SLA1016 that connects to the SDS1004X-E through the Sbus cable at one end. The other end has a 2x34 connector for the ~80cm long high density flat ribbon cable, which in turn connects to the SPL1016 probe head. It is connected in the picture above, but can easily be detached.
This SPL1016 looks like exactly same SPL1016 what is used with SDS1002X+ models.
Only what I can not see enough clear in images is SLA1016 connector. (ribbon cable between SPL1016 head and SLA1016)
SPL1016 head include electronics, all comparators etc. After this head, in ribbon cable, signal is buffered.
I have used it with SDS1102X+
Now, because this kind of cables wear and damage quite easy in use it is nice if parts can buy separately and not need buy whole set including SLA1016 and SPL1016 together.
But question is: Is this SPL1016 head really same and cable with connectors also exactly same what is used in SDS1002X+ MSO.
If so, only new part is this SLA1016 control and converter box.
I've never had a SDS1000X+, so I cannot comment on it. However I happen to have a picture of the SLA1016 connectors:
SLA1016_Interface
I've never had a SDS1000X+, so I cannot comment on it. However I happen to have a picture of the SLA1016 connectors:
I've never had a SDS1000X+, so I cannot comment on it. However I happen to have a picture of the SLA1016 connectors:
Physically connector looks same as SPL1016 used with SDS1102X+. At this point I´m quite sure SPL1016 including cables is same.
Do you happen to have a SCSI drive cable and can maybe check if it's the same 68 pin/plug format ?
A cable such as this could then offer a better solution to the gawd awful ribbon cable:
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SCSI-3-Ultra-Cable-68-pin-HD68-Male-to-68-pin-HD68-Male-HP-166298-038-AF-0-60m/391907302964?hash=item5b3f7ede34:g:6GkAAOSwNsRZ41iJ
Where are the pictures in the above posting?
Thanks, i've joined long ago, i'm just not the posting type
Software version is 7.6.1.12E1
Thank you, i tried looking for where to find updates, obviously without success. I've applied the update 7.6.1.20R1 now but i'm afraid its still happening.
Wow, thanks for the efforts. yes the version is now 20R1 in the system page.
There is a real possibility that i'm just an idiot, but here's what i did to replicate
Default
ch1 set to 5v/div
switch on ch3
ch3 invert on
ch3 set to 50mv/div
timebase all the way to 1ns
timebase back to 2ms,it happens when i go from 1ms to 2ms
A new firmware has passed the production test at Siglent and is ready to be released. This intermediate release has been triggered by a user request initially:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-ucurrent-with-siglent-sds1204x-e-or-sds1000x-e-series-(feature-request)
A new firmware has passed the production test at Siglent and is ready to be released. This intermediate release has been triggered by a user request initially:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/using-a-ucurrent-with-siglent-sds1204x-e-or-sds1000x-e-series-(feature-request)
This looks like a great update. I must be too quick though, I can't see it on any of the download pages yet. Do you have a link for it, or is this coming shortly?
Thanks.
Interesting, thanks.
So no apparent input attenuation indicator added into the channel tab.
Can you share any discussion with R&D as to why that wasn't considered after we've discussed that in detail ?
Interesting, thanks.
So no apparent input attenuation indicator added into the channel tab.
Can you share any discussion with R&D as to why that wasn't considered after we've discussed that in detail ?
Sorry, but I cannot remember that I'd ever been involved in such a discussion, hence cannot know if and what has been considered by Siglent R&D.
It sounds like you have requested something, but then I would rather expect you to know the status. What am I missing?
The most impressive thing is the new web server though. We now get a playful Teletubby-like user interface, but much more importantly a real time update for the DSO screen. This works really well and allows true remote operation. The screen refresh rate appears quite high and it actually feels like looking at the real DSO screen – just bigger.
Screen Save now stores in PNG format, which is very welcome.
SDS1004X-E New Web Server
Does it keep all the front panel control active while using this remote control program?
What interface are you using for the control? LAN/USB/wifi?
thank you.
any idea about the resolution of the display in this mode?
thank you.
any idea about the resolution of the display in this mode?
I have same probe but sold as Hameg HZ53..
You can pull the outer black plastic tube all the way... This is how it should look..
Regards,
Sinisa
The Hameg HZ53 is rated for a much lower voltage (1.2kV vs 2.5kV), it looks the same as the TT-HV150 even though specifications differ.
I'm starting to wonder if they just didn't hide the grounded part in the 2.5kV version for safety reasons. Maybe a risk of arcing at high voltage ? On Testec 600V probes the metal part goes down to the black plastic next to the tip, on the 1.5kV probe it doesn't go as low and there's some white plastic in between, and on the 2.5kV one it's all covered.
The 1000x 8KV one I have has a long fixed reference lead and NO grounding anywhere near the tip:
http://www.pintek.com.tw/product_detail/landersound/img.php?Company_SN=6002&case=127265
Hello SDS1104X-E users!
I use this scope (software version 7.0.6.1.25R2) for a while and put my scope images on an USB-stick.
But to transfer the images to a document on my PC is time consuming and besides of this: they haven't a date/time stamp (because the scope hasn't an real time clock).
Is there a better/simpler way to transfer scope images to the PC?
Many thanks!
And do I have to install the SDS1004X-E Operating System software on the scope?
The function of this Operating System software is not clear to me.
Thanks BillB and tefe!
Is it also possible by connect it via the backside USB Type-B connector?
I have tried this USB connection but I haven't any response on my PC.
So... is it fair to say that the SDS1104X-E is the best bang for the buck scope for $500 USD
So... is it fair to say that the SDS1104X-E is the best bang for the buck scope for $500 USD and under? Or are we still recommending the Rigol 1054Z?
For my needs, I don't really know what I need. I like to tinker with electronics, and want to start fixing things that break instead of just buying new.
I also want to start building audio amplifiers, and Raspberry Pi hats for audio devices. I am happy to pay the difference, but is the Siglent worth the extra money for my use?
So... is it fair to say that the SDS1104X-E is the best bang for the buck scope for $500 USD and under? Or are we still recommending the Rigol 1054Z?
For my needs, I don't really know what I need. I like to tinker with electronics, and want to start fixing things that break instead of just buying new.
I also want to start building audio amplifiers, and Raspberry Pi hats for audio devices. I am happy to pay the difference, but is the Siglent worth the extra money for my use?
OK, I have no idea how to capture another's comment and insert into my own post, so here's a cut and past from the previous entry
Frankly, I would love to find a series of YT videos, on just using a 100MHz 4 channel (plus/minus) being used in the process of doing actual work, not the how to stuff. I want to discover the features and find some device and scrap electronics and follow along and say "HEY, a scope can also do THIS, too??" "cool!"
OK, I have no idea how to capture another's comment and insert into my own post, so here's a cut and past from the previous entry
If you don't really know what you need in a scope, it is going to be impossible for anyone to tell you what is the best bang for the buck scope for you
I know people mean well, I have seen this so many times. From my own experience as more lame than a Newbie, At some point you just want an oscilloscope, you have seen so much YT's Argh Dave and Martin Lortin....My thing has to keep this thing a hobby, so only toys and a decent multimeter..well, a decade later and thousands of YTs I have really lost it.
apture someone else's post, you click on the "quote" link that is to the far right of their post title. Or once you start composing your message, you can scroll down and click on the "Insert Quote" link to the far right of the post title.
So can these be hacked to 200MHz ?
I should really get 1 of these anyway. The SDS1204 is too expensive for now, and the 300MHz versions only have 2ch and are even more money.
Well there's the siglent sds1302CFL that's 300MHz and with 2GS/s, but would cost +1000USD. Hmmm, they only have 24k memory tho, vs 2M for 1104x-e
The first implementation of the MSO option has become available with firmware 7.6.1.20 and I’ve received the SLA1016 digital probe about a week ago. Unfortunately the Sbus cable was missing and even though the connectors are identical, an HDMI cable cannot replace it. So I have to wait until I get the original one.
Until then, I’ll show some details of the hardware. First the contents of the box (minus the Sbus cable):
Also I'm still really, really curious if there's a Zynq in the SLA1016. Any teardown pics?
The first implementation of the MSO option has become available with firmware 7.6.1.20 and I’ve received the SLA1016 digital probe about a week ago. Unfortunately the Sbus cable was missing and even though the connectors are identical, an HDMI cable cannot replace it. So I have to wait until I get the original one.
Until then, I’ll show some details of the hardware. First the contents of the box (minus the Sbus cable):
Did you finally got the SBUS cable and did the review of the SLA1016? I've been unable to find it in the thread. I'm thinking about getting it to be able to trigger on analog. I have a Digital Discovery (https://store.digilentinc.com/digital-discovery-portable-usb-logic-analyzer-and-digital-pattern-generator/) from Digilent that goes up to 800MS/s but is digital only. What's your opinon on the SLA1016?
Thanks!
Mixed channel Pattern Trigger is not supported, so it has to be either an analog or digital pattern.
Thank you! According to the other post, those tests were done 9 months ago, do you know if:QuoteMixed channel Pattern Trigger is not supported, so it has to be either an analog or digital pattern.is still true? If that is the case I'll pass, as that's probably the only advantage of the MSO I was looking for. For the rest of the things I prefer a USB LA.
Here comes an in-depth review of the optional SAG1021 AWG.
So I ask: while it has mostly similar performance, is the PP215 constructed any more durably than the PP510? The '215 is certainly more costly (I'm surprised at just how cheap the PP510 is versus even the Owon T5100's I had on my previous scope... those seemed pretty solid to me), but is basically the same (particularly the hook end)?
Here comes an in-depth review of the optional SAG1021 AWG.
It’s a bit ridiculous, but I had to split the review for this humble little AWG into four parts (three would have worked too, but I didn’t want to tear the sine wave chapter apart). So here are the first two parts:
SAG1021 Review 1-8
- Operation
- Zero Adjust
- Frequency Accuracy
SAG1021 Review 8-25
- Waveforms
-- Sine
--- Amplitude Accuracy
--- Harmonic Distortion
--- Phase Noise
Does this scope have have channel digital filers hidden somewhere?
From my current research i couldn't find any .
Eres acts like Low Pass Filter.
Does this scope have have channel digital filers hidden somewhere?
From my current research i couldn't find any .
No.
Digital side filters are good in some situations with some notes related to aliasing and this depends also if filter input data is true full samplerate or if it use decimated samples. Filter itself do not know if filter input signal is ADC produced alias or true signal. So user need some times be careful and not always blind believe results.
Only really trusted filters are in analog side before ADC. Now and for (nearly) ever.
Of course SDS1000X-E still have some in digital side but they do not name it as filter.
It works like low pass filter but is in digital side.
And user can not adjust it using corner frequency. Not very handy but more than nothing.
Eres acts like Low Pass Filter.
It is explained here (note that all details are not same in Siglent but still useful to read, same principles. http://cdn.teledynelecroy.com/files/appnotes/an_006a.pdf
Example (LeCroy AN-006A, table 1) with full 1GSa/s 3bit Eres is around 8MHz LPF.
With 10MSa/s it is like 80kHz LPF.
I have not measured with Siglent but roughly in same ballpark.
Does this scope have have channel digital filers hidden somewhere?
Eres acts like Low Pass Filter.
but you can't set the corner frequency, and you don't have highpass/bandpass/notch.
I would find digital filters to be useful to look at for example pwm signal. One can use the integrator math operator in conjunction with the offset to produce something that resembles a LPF but the result is rather poor. Same with HPF/Differentiator.
Another is to filter out specific content, BEFORE doing further analysis
Is there a plan to add them? I remember reading something about it a long time ago..
<channel_filter_menu>
<name>FILTER</name>
<button1>
<title>Filter</title>
<option1>Off</option1>
<option2>On</option2>
</button1>
<button2>
<title>Type</title>
</button2>
<button3>
<title>Low Limit</title>
<option1></option1>
</button3>
<button4>
<title>High Limit</title>
<option1></option1>
</button4>
<button5>
<title></title>
</button5>
<button6>
</button6>
</channel_filter_menu>
<channel_filter_menu>
<main_help></main_help>
<button1></button1>
<button2></button2>
<button3></button3>
<button4></button4>
<button5></button5>
<button6></button6>
</channel_filter_menu>
Record Type:
_0 single_sweep
_1 interleaved
_2 histogram
_3 graph
_4 filter_coefficient
_5 complex
_6 extrema
_7 sequence_obsolete
_8 centered_RIS
_9 peak_detect
PROCESSING_DONE:
_0 no_processing
_1 fir_filter
_2 interpolated
_3 sparsed
_4 autoscaled
_5 no_result
_6 rolling
_7 cumulative
Hello everyone,
As far as I understood from In-Depth-Review, SDS1104X-E is younger model than SDS1202X-E.
Am I correct?
Picked up an SDS1204X-E from siglent.eu the other day (very fast service by the way). Couple of annoyances with the probes:
1) the tips are pretty dull. The probes I have from my previous inherited TDS220 scope (some Velleman things) had really nice sharp tips which would dig in a little and avoid slippage
2) the 1x 10x switches are very sensitive to being knocked.
I very rarely if ever come out of 10x - any suggestions for a nice quality economic 10x fixed probe with a nice sharp tip, that play well with the SDS1204X-E? Thanks!
Picked up an SDS1204X-E from siglent.eu the other day (very fast service by the way). Couple of annoyances with the probes:
1) the tips are pretty dull. The probes I have from my previous inherited TDS220 scope (some Velleman things) had really nice sharp tips which would dig in a little and avoid slippage
2) the 1x 10x switches are very sensitive to being knocked.
I very rarely if ever come out of 10x - any suggestions for a nice quality economic 10x fixed probe with a nice sharp tip, that play well with the SDS1204X-E? Thanks!
Welcome.
The Siglent SP2030A (300MHz) that comes with the SDS2304X is a 10x fixed auto-sense probe and somewhat smaller and nicer the the SDS1*04X-E probes so you might want to price them up from your supplier.
The list price I have is $59ea.
Performa01 swept their performance in the link below and while they're not a perfect match for the SDS1204X-E they just meet the -3dB 200MHz spec.
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1104x-e-in-depth-review/msg1434665/#msg1434665
I use Testec. Not cheapest, but decent price for good quality..
I use Testec. Not cheapest, but decent price for good quality..I guess see above re: matching, @performa01 thought the testec they were looking at was the worst match of the lot they looked at. Was there a particular model you're using?
If I get a bit of time I can sweep TT HF212 on Keysight. I don't have a proper leveled gen, but SDG6052X should be good enough for probe comparison..
If I get a bit of time I can sweep TT HF212 on Keysight. I don't have a proper leveled gen, but SDG6052X should be good enough for probe comparison..That would be interesting - even though it is not a definitive indication how this probe would perform on a Siglent SDS1204X-E.
Amplitude flatness of the SDG6000X is excellent - better than most levelled RF generators. Look here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/sds2074x-actual-scope-bandwidth/msg1906445/#msg1906445
Here, quick capture, sweep from 1kHz to 200MHz, 200mV P-P, 61 sec sweep, several passes.
Scopes used MSOX3104T and Picoscope 3406D MSO.. Flat top window on FFT.
Picoscope TA131 and Testec TT HF212..
Here, quick capture, sweep from 1kHz to 200MHz, 200mV P-P, 61 sec sweep, several passes.
Scopes used MSOX3104T and Picoscope 3406D MSO.. Flat top window on FFT.
Picoscope TA131 and Testec TT HF212..
Here, quick capture, sweep from 1kHz to 200MHz, 200mV P-P, 61 sec sweep, several passes.
Scopes used MSOX3104T and Picoscope 3406D MSO.. Flat top window on FFT.
Picoscope TA131 and Testec TT HF212..
No any word about test setup.
Please, can you explain how was probes connected to signal source, including also source impedance.
Test setup is least as important as result data - images.
Here, quick capture, sweep from 1kHz to 200MHz, 200mV P-P, 61 sec sweep, several passes.
Scopes used MSOX3104T and Picoscope 3406D MSO.. Flat top window on FFT.
Picoscope TA131 and Testec TT HF212..
Am I reading this right - does it tell you not much more than that you can't usefully compare results for different probes on different scopes without detail knowledge of how the input circuitry compares between scopes?
The HF212's look quite nice; I see RS rebadge them in the UK but that they can probably be had cheaper on their original label.
Am I right in thinking they don't come with any sort of identification bands for the connector / probe? Do the ones from Siglent fit somewhere on the probe / connector?
Unfortunately, it was a quick check so Picoscope is not same vertical scale
Here, quick capture, sweep from 1kHz to 200MHz, 200mV P-P, 61 sec sweep, several passes.
Scopes used MSOX3104T and Picoscope 3406D MSO.. Flat top window on FFT.
Picoscope TA131 and Testec TT HF212..
No any word about test setup.
Please, can you explain how was probes connected to signal source, including also source impedance.
Test setup is least as important as result data - images.
Like I said before SSDG6000X, probes with BNC tip adapter directly to the output of siggen. Before measurement, I grabbed 1 MHz square wave with direct BNC cable (50 ohm terminated) into reference trace, and compensated both probes to overlay their response over reference one.. and check with 1 kHz square wave for low frequency top flatness..
HF 212 has 3 trimmers, 1 for LF and 2 for HF compensation.. TA131 has only LF compensation on probe body. I didn't try to lift sticker on BNC side box to see if it has HF compensation there but hidden from user.
As can be seen, the circuit already contains the standard test setup: Signal generator with 50 ohms source impedance and 50 ohms through termination directly on its output, resulting in a total source impedance of 25 ohms, as seen by the probe.
However the 100 MHz PP510 probes that come with it are a steaming pile of excrement because of the flaky X1/X10 switch on the probe. The contacts on the switch are intermittent and easily tweaked while using. If it was a dedicated X10 probe without the switch it would be fine, but the poor quality switch renders them highly unreliable and useless for me.
I have been using my SDS1104X-E oscilloscope for more than a month, and except for lacking a trigger reference in the data file I have been very happy with the ease of use, features, and performance of the scope.
However the 100 MHz PP510 probes that come with it are a steaming pile of excrement because of the flaky X1/X10 switch on the probe. The contacts on the switch are intermittent and easily tweaked while using. If it was a dedicated X10 probe without the switch it would be fine, but the poor quality switch renders them highly unreliable and useless for me.
SDG6000X output impedance is 50ohm. So you have tested probes frequency response using 50ohm source impedance.
Normal standard practice is - and have been tens of years - for test probes frequency and step response using 25ohm source impedance!
Also @Performa01 have used right source impedance, as can see example here:As can be seen, the circuit already contains the standard test setup: Signal generator with 50 ohms source impedance and 50 ohms through termination directly on its output, resulting in a total source impedance of 25 ohms, as seen by the probe.
According to the table above, an 8 divisions full scale signal at 1mV/div is the winner (on my sample of the SDS1104X-E at least), as it allows measurements down to -70dBc (0.032%) with this setup.
I have been using my SDS1104X-E oscilloscope for more than a month, and except for lacking a trigger reference in the data file I have been very happy with the ease of use, features, and performance of the scope.
However the 100 MHz PP510 probes that come with it are a steaming pile of excrement because of the flaky X1/X10 switch on the probe. The contacts on the switch are intermittent and easily tweaked while using. If it was a dedicated X10 probe without the switch it would be fine, but the poor quality switch renders them highly unreliable and useless for me.Chris, we do get the very occasional crook one.
I check every one like this:
Connect to Probe Cal output.
Find a V/div and Vertical Pos setting for 10x probe that can also display 1x probe switch setting without any other adjustment. Ensure a Trigger is maintained with each probe setting.
From one or the other probe attenuation switching must be displayed as a snappy clean change in amplitude, no laggy tails or instability at either 1x or 10x. Gently wiggle the switch at 1x, if it's not perfect claim warranty.
Check each probe carefully, they should be perfect.
When you know for sure how many are crook drop Jason a line and get them replaced.
Anyways, luckily the PP510 is a cheap probe and only $10ea and I keep a few in stock just because I do find the odd faulty one.
https://store.siglentamerica.com/product/pp510-1000-mhz-oscilloscope-probe
I have been using my SDS1104X-E oscilloscope for more than a month, and except for lacking a trigger reference in the data file I have been very happy with the ease of use, features, and performance of the scope.
However the 100 MHz PP510 probes that come with it are a steaming pile of excrement because of the flaky X1/X10 switch on the probe. The contacts on the switch are intermittent and easily tweaked while using. If it was a dedicated X10 probe without the switch it would be fine, but the poor quality switch renders them highly unreliable and useless for me.Chris, we do get the very occasional crook one.
I check every one like this:
Connect to Probe Cal output.
Find a V/div and Vertical Pos setting for 10x probe that can also display 1x probe switch setting without any other adjustment. Ensure a Trigger is maintained with each probe setting.
From one or the other probe attenuation switching must be displayed as a snappy clean change in amplitude, no laggy tails or instability at either 1x or 10x. Gently wiggle the switch at 1x, if it's not perfect claim warranty.
Check each probe carefully, they should be perfect.
When you know for sure how many are crook drop Jason a line and get them replaced.
Anyways, luckily the PP510 is a cheap probe and only $10ea and I keep a few in stock just because I do find the odd faulty one.
https://store.siglentamerica.com/product/pp510-1000-mhz-oscilloscope-probe
I was in the middle of my impedance measurement project and I did not want to take the time diagnosing probe problems, so I switched to an older HP probe to finish. Once I switched, I had no more issues.
Today I had some time and played with the probe some more. It is intermittent, but the problem is not with the switch. The problem is the spring hook that fits on the end of the probe. It's contact to the probe tip is intermittent. The tip itself is straight and the probe works with another spring tip without issue.
I started reading your review out of curiosity as I await the arrival of my SDS2104X Plus. What a wonderful job you've done! In addition to your detailed coverage of the 'scope, I got an education I didn't expect. The section on interpolation, for example, talked about how each mode works as well as when it's best used - with screenshots of each mode to boot. I found such elaborations throughout your review; thank you for that extra effort - much appreciated!
Is this scope really able to display XY figures in channels 1&2 and/or channels 3&4 as described in that document?
(The scope is running SW 6.1.37R9 OS 8.3)
Remember when the DHO800 showed weird things on the screen? Dave tried hard to find the cause – which in the end was just a flaky cable connection. He made even a separate video on it. Yet when the Siglent showed implausible results, Dave just wrote it off as “it doesn’t like it at all” – and Rigol fanboys had a party, even though it should be very clear that such an obvious major bug would not have gone unnoticed for an instrument that’s been on the market for almost 6 years now and numerous examples of its (still) superb FFT have been posted in this forum already.
Dave regularly hand waves away things that don't match his cognitive model.
ie. when he opens a cheap multimeter everything other comment is "<shows part>. Part <part> here but is it the genuine article? I don't think so/I don't know".
...
Whereas the likes of Fluke and so on get comments like "you know it is going to work, it is Fluke"
I'm not sure he can be taken seriously as a reviewer, entertainer is possible more appropriate.
Today I also managed to get the FM-Mod pictures, once without average, once with.
So "my" 1104X-e is the third one here.
Why not?
This always bothers me, but if you still want menus, i can submit them later.
The blue Print (to USB) button is more useful to keep menus displayed.
Now for the “30 mVpp signal at 10 V/div” test. Yes, this is a clear case where a low-noise 8-bit scope has to give up. In the AM test, the carrier acted as (almost full scale) dither, hence the accuracy of level measurements far below the 8-bit dynamic range was still pretty good. But now we have to rely on the input noise as dither, which will barely exceed 1 LSB at 200 mV/div. Consequently, the accuracy is completely gone, but the signal itself is still clearly visible:
SDS1104X-E_FFT_10MHz_-40dBV_Avg10
Yes, this appears to be the advantage of a 12-bit DSO, but it is nevertheless pretty much meaningless in practice: whenever we have to measure an isolated (single) signal that low, then we just select an appropriate vertical gain. If, on the other hand, this is not possible because there are other stronger signals present at the same time, then we can happily use a less sensitive input range and let those stronger signals act as dither. All in all, the rather high 1 LSB threshold of an 8-bit ADC isn’t really a concern particularly for FFT.
I've tried too. So, another SDS1104X-E in test
Signal generator is Siglent SDG2000X
HiZ, no 50 Ohm terminator on scope.
For AM : 1 ch 10MHz, 10Vpp; 2 ch 10.05MHz, 2mVpp. Mixed with wave combine.
For FM : 1Vpp, 10MHz, FM dev 50kHz, FM freq 1kHz.
FFT settings:
1M, Hanning, Center freq 10MHz, 100kHz/div for AM and 50kHz/div for FM
Same results.
I was playing around with DHO1074 and some modulated signals and by mistake (bad contact terminator) I've found an explanation about the wrong FFT plot regarding SDS1104X-E.
...
An overloaded DHO have an even more funny FFT plot for 30kHz deviation.
Yet the damage is done. Some of the "experts" out there could yell out that the Siglent FFT is broken or the user interface is so awkward that Dave couldn't get it right.
QuoteYet the damage is done. Some of the "experts" out there could yell out that the Siglent FFT is broken or the user interface is so awkward that Dave couldn't get it right.
This was said after we were able to disprove it here, that something was wrong with the FFT.
Let's see what comes out of that corner now.
I would like to ask if other users of this scope (SDS1104X-E, latest FW, no hacks) are also seeing this strange behavior:
Input signal is square wave 10Hz, 2Vpp, scope has DC coupling, connected with coax cable, external 50ohm load, 1x mode:
Yes, the low frequency 'wrinkles' in low frequency square waves is a known feature.
Good to know. Thanks. Do you have some link where it is referenced?
I can see ringing of the scope vertical amplifier there. It gets worse with more offset.
I double-checked with another scope (RTM3004) and it is quite flat as expected:
Alternatively, we could wonder why the SDS1000X-E is so sensitive to overloading even at very low frequencies - you didn't tell about the rise time of the square wave, so I cannot estimate the bandwidth of your signal.
even not overloaded, in fact even with signals that are totally on the screen with no offset.
In order to avoid overloading the input of an SDS1104X-E, the signal amplitude must not exceed 1 Vpp.
In order to avoid overloading the input of an SDS1104X-E, the signal amplitude must not exceed 1 Vpp.Is this somewhere specified?
For my further study, would be possible to direct me where I can get more info about how the analog frontend is designed, i.e. what is the split path input buffer and why 4262 does not have it?
In order to avoid overloading the input of an SDS1104X-E, the signal amplitude must not exceed 1 Vpp.Is this somwhere specified?