And they still have the third bug to address, I am dying to learn which one out of the 3 reported it is.
And they still have the third bug to address, I am dying to learn which one out of the 3 reported it is.
There is no third bug, that was an unverified throw-away PEBKAC on my part.
2. Trigger jitter when using AC trigger coupling.
Not sure what the third bug is?There is actualy 4th one. I've showed it in my video: on DS2000A with EXT source it works only with DC coupled trigger. Menu is the same (AC/DC/rejects), but it doesn't affect anything, EXT trigger always work with DC coupling.
Maybe another bug will come up... Nah!
And they still have the third bug to address, I am dying to learn which one out of the 3 reported it is.
1. Trigger jitter when using 5us horizontal offset
2. Trigger jitter when using AC trigger coupling.
Not sure what the third bug is? The "dual slope triggering not working bug" is not a bug at all, just correct behaviour of trigger holdoff: link to earlier in this thread.
EDIT: MarkL, must have pressed "reply" at the same time! Great minds, right?
I believe that third one still a bug. Including pictures, input signal is a 1 kHz square wave 50% duty cycle, the hold off is set to 100ns and only by changing the time base (nothing else) some times it will triggers on both falling/rising, notice didn't change anything else other then time base.
Scope Details:
MSO2202A, SW ver 00.03.01, HW ver 2.2
I believe that third one still a bug. Including pictures, input signal is a 1 kHz square wave 50% duty cycle, the hold off is set to 100ns and only by changing the time base (nothing else) some times it will triggers on both falling/rising, notice didn't change anything else other then time base.
Scope Details:
MSO2202A, SW ver 00.03.01, HW ver 2.2
This is very, very interesting. For context, having the effective holdoff "change" as the timebase is manipulated is standard fare for analog oscilloscopes (or at least, the one analog I've played with). The reason is that the holdoff period doesn't start until the horizontal sweep is completed; which means that the distance between triggers is timebase + holdoff. So a change in behaviour due only to a timebase change is completely expected...
Except, in the video that I linked in my earlier post, I demonstrated very explicitly that the Rigol DS2202 doesn't do this. The holdoff is measured from the trigger point, and the selected timebase has absolutely no bearing on the trigger behaviour -- down to the exact nanosecond value of holdoff that flips it between states. So it's extremely strange that your Rigol MSO2202A is behaviour more like a Hitachi 20MHz Analog CRO than a Rigol DS2202.
To confirm exactly how it's behaving, could you please show the behaviour with the follow 6 settings:
200us/div, holdoff = about 0.3ms (that's 300us, or 300k ns)
200us/div, holdoff = about 0.7ms
200us/div, holdoff = about 1ms
And the same, but with 500 us/div.
That way, we can see if it's just the timebase futzing with the holdoff settings, or something more broken.
I suspect this bug only exists in the documentation and user interface with external triggering only supporting DC coupling because of the hardware.
here they are:
I suspect this bug only exists in the documentation and user interface with external triggering only supporting DC coupling because of the hardware.But it is still a bug.
And I mentioned it in the video: Rigol either have to remove coupling settings for EXT input (due to hardware) or fix all items in the menu.
I don't know which way they designed trigger circuit, but if it is "purely digital" (as it is for analog channels) maybe they can implement "AC coupling" on EXT input as well.
And it will be nice if they'll add multiplier setting for the EXT input (0.0001x...1000x) as it is in the channel menu (for correct trigger voltage display).
DS4000 does AC coupling for EXT input as well as voltage multiplier auto sensing.
Short and not explanatory, but:Quote1: We have reproduced the two issues in R&D side;
2: All issues can be fixed by firmware updating without deleting any feature;
3: The trail firmware form R&D will be released in early next week, that can be used for Dave or some urgent cases.
It would be greatly appreciated if they or you would post both the trial firmware and the previous full release version as open downloads instead of having to play the email game to get them.
The menu options to select AC coupling need to go away on the DS2000A when using the external trigger. I've confirmed as well that it only supports DC coupling. You can of course put a cap inline and now you have your AC coupling
I don't know which way they designed trigger circuit, but if it is "purely digital" (as it is for analog channels) maybe they can implement "AC coupling" on EXT input as well.
And it will be nice if they'll add multiplier setting for the EXT input (0.0001x...1000x) as it is in the channel menu (for correct trigger voltage display).
DS4000 does AC coupling for EXT input as well as voltage multiplier auto sensing.
I'm fairly sure it's not implemented as the same way as the analog channels, at least on the DS2202, because the EXT input is not available for triggering modes other than "Edge". This indicates to me that there isn't a dedicated ADC on the EXT input. (Well, there is a 1-bit ADC, also known as a comparator ). The DS4000 is expensive so maybe they sprung for a real ADC, or maybe even real AC coupling (you know, with a capacitor!!!). What trigger modes (e.g. Pulse, Slope, RS232!?) are supported by EXT on the DS4000?
A cold beer says they will fix the 1000/2000 and ignore the 4000s.
A cold beer says they will fix the 1000/2000 and ignore the 4000s.
Is the 5uS a ds4k issue? Or do you mean the ac trigger issue? Or both?
Every other manufacturer (and even half of the cheap DIY china scopes) is capable of implementing AC coupled trigger/channel, so where is the problem for Rigol?
there must be something wrong with you:
1- in lot of countries one have to give lot of blowjobs to earn $400 (and cheap does not means bad or broken)
2- fully loaded DS2000A costs nearly $4000, and it does have same shit bug (that should be enought to care, right?)
Only item I can reproduce is the delay jitter, but it doesn't alternate from bad to good every 5us, the greater the delay the more bad.
Only item I can reproduce is the delay jitter, but it doesn't alternate from bad to good every 5us, the greater the delay the more bad.
I think it might be something different than the 5us delay jitter issue. It happens on mine if I push the trigger off the display a bit, with an occasional off screen trigger not always doing it. I think it has to do with the intensity grading, but perhaps not. It does not get better and worse though as far as I can tell, but perhaps I need to evaluate it wave by wave to see if the interval is different than 5us...
Only item I can reproduce is the delay jitter, but it doesn't alternate from bad to good every 5us, the greater the delay the more bad
The jitter is the sum of the jitter from the trigger and the long period jitter from the sampling clock.
This is very, very interesting. For context, having the effective holdoff "change" as the timebase is manipulated is standard fare for analog oscilloscopes (or at least, the one analog I've played with).
...at least on the DS2202, because the EXT input is not available for triggering modes other than "Edge".
A cold beer says they will fix the 1000/2000 and ignore the 4000s.
Is the 5uS a ds4k issue? Or do you mean the ac trigger issue? Or both?
Only item I can reproduce is the delay jitter, but it doesn't alternate from bad to good every 5us, the greater the delay the more bad.
Yes dr.diesels video does show jitter as the delay gets larger but I'd certainly expect that, especially with a DDS generator (which I don't know if dr.diesel used or not but I am)
I (and many many others) don't - so as far as bugs go, it's WAY less important to me than, for example, the DSO crashing every hour or so - or the main acquisition modes not functioning correctly.
I (and many many others) don't - so as far as bugs go, it's WAY less important to me than, for example, the DSO crashing every hour or so - or the main acquisition modes not functioning correctly.
and how much do you use scrolling thru the waveform?