-
So? Where?
believe it or not, in the middle of bridge/border between heaven and hell. scientific prove? none! you may as well call it bullshit.
-
So? Where?
believe it or not, in the middle of bridge/border between heaven and hell. scientific prove? none!
[/quote]
Forever? -
i'm not expert on that. to god's faith i think. as i edited post above. you can call it bullshit if you like. but i'm free to express my belief right?
Forever?So? Where?
believe it or not, in the middle of bridge/border between heaven and hell. scientific prove? none!
-
does atheist believe in ghost?
No, that comes under the supernatural banner.
Dave. -
So? Where?
believe it or not, in the middle of bridge/border between heaven and hell. scientific prove? none!
Forever?
[/quote]
Purgatory.. otherwise known as planet earth.. yes you get to do it again and again -
Of course you can, by all means. I just wanted to see how deep the rabbit hole is; you are reverting to god every time you can't explain something.
It has been an informative discussion, cheers fellas. -
what is supernatural banner? in the sense of provability, god is the same as ghost (for now). so god's is under supernatural banner as well?does atheist believe in ghost?
No, that comes under the supernatural banner.
Dave.
@gregariz: purgatory is not our term. resurrection is not our term. but "temporary punishment" yes (wiki on purgatory), but not to "died newborn baby", temporary punishment is in hell for sinner but believer. non believers get to hell forever! thats an absolute certain lesson i got. but newborn baby i still dont know the detail, same case to people who have not reach to the true "guide/lesson", they are in the middle. i should ask more expert people later. non believer is the one who have got the chance to listen to the "true" "guide/lesson/speech" but not believing it.
edit: i just read thouroughly the wiki purgatory... yes, its in our dictionary = temporary punishment.
-
night Alex!
-
Err, then why does the bible itself condone rape? (among many other nasty things)
It does, many times, go read it.
Dave.
It doesn't! But then with selective quotation you can have a supposed biblical support for almost any nutjob theory you wish to promote.
I was brought up in a deeply christian household and saw so many example of the very best and the very worst amongst individuals. There is no such thing as a holy war and there is no basis in the bible or the Qoran for that matter for having one.
Religion and science can coexist and belief should be a personal thing. Person belief is not license to be shoving religious views onto others likewise lack of belief still have respect for others to hold different views. Hell the flat-earthers are free to believe what they wish too.
Everything in human understanding is finite, has a beginning and an end, it's been suggested elsewhere that god is all that doesn't fit that scope. Personally I don't have an problem with that concept, the engineer in me says OK if I accept the big-bang theory (I do) then who put the dynamite there to kick it off?
What I cannot cope is how wailing, chanting, swinging pots of incense, bulletproof popemobiles, sodomising alter boys, crocheted hats, jihad beards, caste systems and all the other malarkey is supposed to be stomached as an integral part of religion.
I can only speak for the christian bible but after many readings am quite sure it has no mandate for such behavior. My limited understanding of the Qoran comes to the same conclusion.
If nothing else Christianity (or others) have proven to be a good basis for community rules and behavior. Treat others as you would wish to be treated is a pretty good basis for any community.
The was nothing christian about supposed catholic and protestant battles in Northern Ireland, there is no Muslim basis for blowing one's self up in perfectly good aircraft. Much of what we see posing as religion is fabricated bullshit for financial advantage.
As I mentioned previously religion brings out the very best and very worst in people and its been an ideal tool for the ideologue since time immemorial. Church committees are full of self serving politicians and real estate agents. Once a year Christians hell bent on telling others how they should live at the same time those church communities have many charitable souls who are driven to helping others without request for reward in this life or in any other they may believe in.
Idealogues hell bent pushing their religious or anti religious views onto others are the problem and have been for as long as man walked the earth.
-
you are reverting to god every time you can't explain something.
Why is that a problem? It only becomes a problem when all the trappings, superstition and other mumbo-jumbo gets added. You cannot prove or disprove god. The sad part is that any understanding is generally restricted to either belief of a wise old white robed man in the clouds or an absence of explanation. -
Person belief is not license to be shoving religious views onto others likewise lack of belief still have respect for others to hold different views.
Religions exist because the views of that religion are shoved onto others. Religions which no longer think they have a duty never mind license to shove their views onto others are weak and will eventually become extinct.
-
The was nothing christian about supposed catholic and protestant battles in Northern Ireland, there is no Muslim basis for blowing one's self up in perfectly good aircraft. Much of what we see posing as religion is fabricated bullshit for financial advantage.
yes. i have limited exposure to christian. but i believe they are very close neighboor in history compared to muslim and the lesson should be not far off, except maybe in small parts of "new tastement" ammendmend. and anything you heard bad about them is due to some propaganda by other believer from different religion, specific party or for their own benefit. both christian and muslim, the "true" believers of the holy books are peaceful society, the same to what aethist think as morality. we have about the same direction and thought about life in this world. the difference is what we thought in the afterlife and the way we pray. for god sake, people who blow shit up in aircraft are either "non muslim" or deviate from the "true lesson". and now the muslim are labelled as terrorists, muslim women are forced to take off their scarft and hence to show off in what "muslim definition" as their private part (woman hair and neck) in some countries because the government are afraid the women bring bomb in their scarf. what kind of shit is that? is that the definition of morality? try to impose what you believe on others? even if its violating others belief and consent?
well, the debate of religion is endless. you can talk whatever you like, i can talk whatever i like. but at least, i have something to believe in afterlife, and in what way a "specific detail" in life shold be done such as the way we pray, the way we deal with people of different religion (or aethist), the way of life the way of mortgage the limit of whats called private part etc etc. makes me thinking (in scientific or math logic manner, or algorithm or problem solving whatever you want to call) the bottom line is..
a) if indeed god is not exist (aetheism is true) then it doesnt matter what we believe or not, we are all heading to the same direction, ie a BIG blank full stop. no matter what you did good or bad on earth.
b) but if there is a god, then i'm as a believer should have a very slight, if not more, chance to go to a place called heaven.
so for aethist the chance are they either go to full stop, or.. hell i'm afraid but for believer the chance are either full stop, hell or heaven. thats the possibility. a possibility that cannot be proved, yet cannot be disproved.
-
you guys are running around the periphery of the issue.
is there anyone here with the slightest interest in true origins and proper context?
see this is what i mean when i say atheists have some things in common with religious people;
the unwillingness to even look at the heart of the matter.
atheists are as guilty of believing whatever suits their emotional sensitivities best as religious people are.
THE TRUTH CAN BE KNOWN.
anyone who continues to speculate without looking at it every bit the dickhead they accuse the opposition of being.
but the sad fact is that nobody here seems to have the slightest interest in knowing, yet continue to speculate and express opinions
on those things you refuse to look at.
thus all of you claim to know the truth, but none of you ever really looked.
so stop pretending dickheads!
again, the truth can be know, what excuse do you atheists you have for not knowing it? -
Quote
b) but if there is a god, then i'm as a believer should have a very slight, if not more, chance to go to a place called heaven.
so for aethist the chance are they either go to full stop, or.. hell i'm afraid but for believer the chance are either full stop, hell or heaven. thats the possibility. a possibility that cannot be proved, yet cannot be disproved.
wrong.
you only think that because you have never really looked.
if you look at where the ideas come from in the first place, you will understand.
and when you understand you will no longer have a reason to believe.
and that is the reason you do not look.
also i will remind you that the burden of proof is on the one making the claim, so it needs to be proven, and does NOT need to be disproven.
not until some1 comes up with a valid reason for believing which is not based on emotion.
which in the history of humankind has not happened yet.
the truth is that everything you believe ammounts to nothing more then severely distorted versions of
stories that came from oral traditions, and had absolutely no literal meaning whatsoever.
the stories you read in the bible are merely a symbolic story in which all actors are antrapamorphised
because that is the best way to preserve the intended meaning of the story in an oral tradition.
what was it about? it was quite simply a description of the world these people lived in.
the story of jesus is a symbolic story ment to teach people about the behavior of the sun
so they would know when to sow and when to harvest etc.
lets break it down shall we:
-born on christmas:
december 21st/25th marks the winter solstice, and people experience the shortest
periods of daylight in the year, the vegetation is dormant and the land looks dead.
during solstice the sun no longer shifts its position over the horizon like it does the rest of the year
and for 3 days it is unmoving. the sun is dead, untill the end of solstice when the days grow longer
and he sun once more moves across the horizon.
-born of a virgin:
during this period in december the sun will come up between the legs of constellation virgo.
-the 3 kings
actually the belt of orion, which at christmas rizes with its 3 stars aligned virtically.
-the guiding star
this is sirius, which is very bright and comes up before orion's belt, giving us the 3 kings following the star towards the sun.
want more? check out those vids i posted.
there is no excuse for opinion when knowledge is attainable. -
Boring drivel, the thread should be closed, there are no gods, only other people that want to make profit from others insecurity by scaring them to give to the church/cult all there money. Complete and total crap. Ha God and religion books, the are much better books to read than the bibles. tried reading one once bored me after the first page.
Yesterday my son said to me out of the blue.. Dad the bible cant be true, if it was, we would all be deformed because of Adam and Eve, they would have had to have baby's with their kids!
I don't know were he got this from, but yea, sounds write to me. Does god support fucking your children, if he exits he certainly fucked his ? -
The concept of heaven and hell is digital, whereas life is analog. Who is the one deciding for me and on what basis?
Obviously if the niceness level is in the invalid region during the death clock strobe you get undefined behavior. But since everyone is "born in sin" it seems god hates people by default so you go to hell in that case.
Also, this argument is going nowhere if you are not willing to change your position. Maybe a little open mindedness ...
-
again, the truth can be know, what excuse do you atheists you have for not knowing it?
What "truth"?
Atheism is a LACK OF BELIEF in a god(s) or the supernatural, nothing more. A position usually arrived at through reason, and because the evidence for such just disappears into nothing with the advance of science. Not that there has really ever been any evidence anyway.
What makes you think you can demand something more of atheists?
Not everyone wants to spend their life finding out the "truth" to life, the universe, and everything. Or where or how the various holy books came into being etc.
But if you've got an interesting articles that shed more light on various matters, throw it our way, some might want to read it. But don't demand that we must know some "truth".
Atheists usually just want to get on with life without ridiculous religious influence upon it everywhere we look.
Dave. -
this is nothing in human domain but "a measurement problem". let us not discuss what cannot be measured.
http://www.speed-light.info/angels_speed_of_light.htm
-
Thought this thread was about Maths?
Anyway for some interesting reading have a look at books by Alan Watts.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alan_Watts
That's all. -
Interesting, I last left this thread its was more math than metaphysics, but what a turn.
Anyway, back to math one thing not posted here is the 'Horowitz and Hill' of mathematics, a book for the non-mathematician who needs advanced math:
http://www.amazon.com/Mathematics-Birth-Numbers-Jan-Gullberg/dp/039304002X/ref=cm_cr_pr_product_top
Written by an amateur mathematician, a physician actually, on his Mac, purely for the love of math. IIRC it was printed on his laser printer and off to the publishers almost as the original print, with cartoons made by his son. Sadly he died of a heart attack while updating the draft for the second edition, so this is is first and last text as a magnum opus.
If you're interested in the roots of modern mathematics in Islamic and Hindu culture all the way to calculus, this is it.
For example, Algebra is derived from al-jabr, from the Islamic text:
-
If you don't truly believe in all those things, then you are just picking and choosing and might as well go start your own religion and fall into the ever spillaraling trap of having no reliable "holy book" or "word of god", and hence you are just making shit up. (The bible is course is mostly made up, but lets not go there...)
And if you you do believe in all that stuff, then you have to take all the other crap in the bible as truth too. All the real nasty horrible shit in the original edition, and the silly stuff like the talking snake et.al
Dave.
People .... after so many of pages, not even one found to admit that he was helped by his God ?
( Yes Dave the G in God goes large )
Well, I have experienced a true miracle, and I have proofs, plus and another person friend of my,
who was an eyewitness of that miracle.
Do you know what happened to both of us after the miracle ?
I do tell the story to the others, and I am full of pride and joy even today .. My faith to God become more rock solid..
And about my own friend ... He hides it even from his own family, so to not be considered as wacko !!
Yes that's how the majority in our society acts when they are experiencing a miracle.
They hide it .
How I can tell that I did experienced a miracle, and it was not a random event of good luck ? (if there is such of thing)
Well I visited the church, and I had a solo monologue for about 15 minutes explaining my problem.
And as soon I got back in my shop and 10 minutes later, things started to happen.
And in two hours time, I was in front of the object that I had lost, and I was seeking to find.
I have no problem at all, to write the all story in detail, but we are out of topic all ready,
and if Dave gives the OK, I will do it .
-
Well I visited the church, and I had a solo monologue for about 15 minutes explaining my problem.
Please tell the story and provide us with the proof. But to me this sounds just like the good old friend
And as soon I got back in my shop and 10 minutes later, things started to happen.
And in two hours time, I was in front of the object that I had lost, and I was seeking to find.confirmation bias.Sorry I meant selection bias. Basically, think of the many times you wanted something to happen (like finding things) and it didn't. Once it did. It was bound to, sooner or later.I have no problem at all, to write the all story in detail, but we are out of topic all ready,
I don't know if I really don't get this thread or many of you didn't even watch the videos in the first and second posts, but if you did you would know this thread is about "not believing" in science, creationism, religion and related stuff. That word "math" in title comes from the first video which is a parody of the second one.
and if Dave gives the OK, I will do it . -
ndictu
As I stated I will only accept the permission of Dave.
The story it is an Ultra strong one, and its not the only one, that had happened to me until now.
I had share this specific story, and with Greeks, that we have an common religion,
and the result was that they started to nag, that they did not had such response as I did,
in the thousands of their problems, when they ask for help from above.
I like to believe that here comes the word " faith " in to the game.
And another thing that called like " do you deserve to be helped " ?
I have never cause harm in another human, but I do enjoy to tease the Fluke fan boys from time to time. Lol
-
case in point
-
It's not easy to follow such a strong discussion, when you find 3 more pages after less than a day
And doubt, as usual, is there, to put to the test my faith. I'm quite sure a little doubt sometimes assails the atheists here, too.
At least,Quote"Doubt is one of the names of intelligence." Borges
I can say that when you ask what life means, when you see some situations and things which is impossible to describe, you find there must be something more than "reality" (meaning all you can perceive, measure, ...). The words "real" and "true" don't have the same meaning (at least their translations in my language!).
Prayers, practices, ceremonies, are the form this is expressed. Rituals are common to civil life, too. So they're not worthless, if you agree with they're underlying principle.
Just a poetical point of view? Yes, I'm a man, not only an engineer!