I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.
The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.
Oh, that will be the perfect illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp .
Prove that assertion.
This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .
Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.
Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge.
Cheers
Alex
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.
The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.
Oh, that will be the perfect illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp .
Prove that assertion.
This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .
Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.
Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge.
Cheers
Alex
As another unbeliever, the bit I didn't believe was "Now EU starts to smell that way".
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.
The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.
Oh, that will be the perfect illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp .
Prove that assertion.
This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .
Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.
Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge.
Welcome to the 1930s, in the Weimar Republic.Why? Did you loose a long war and were blead dry by the winning countries?
Don't think so. Business will get back as usual but a bit less probably.
You could stick the very same label on anyone who votes for Hillary to! None of these are a "rational" vote as you try to make it.
But if you for a second put all that Washington post ect blabber aside and look into either one of these you get a textbook narcissist/oligarch, what kind of less-of-the-same is that? Hitler, Mossulini etc was also "disturbers".. Voting for any of these will just divide US even further but i suspect after reading your posts that is what you want?
Besides where is the "reasonable evidence" based on Trumps blabber for what Trump would/could achieve as president? Most of his promises is just wierd and even bended against the constitution. Trump on the other hand have managed to anger the Scotts at his golf course and earlier NRA with his "guns-in-the-bar-idea". What kind of ""disturbance"" was that? all it ended in was senate deadlock and the arms restriction law into the bin one more time. Trump didn't change status qou at all, he rather cemented it! And voting in Hillary would most likely end in the very same cementing!
I have to vote! If I don't vote, I can't bitch. So sayeth my father a long time ago!
I would absolutely never vote for Hillary and Trump is the only other realistic choice. There is no check box for None Of The Above. We have a vacancy in the Supreme Court. I would be happy with a vacancy in the Office of the President.
I asked before to name one thing the UK is good at. So far the only significant item on the list seems that London is Europe's financial centre.
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.
The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.
Oh, that will be the perfect illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp .
Prove that assertion.
This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .
Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.
Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge.
All of your statement, of course.
I'll change my mind if you can demonstrate the existence of forced labour camps or of people being machine gunned for trying to leave. Or anything remotely comparable, for that matter.
Precisely. The debate was a national disgrace and made me ashamed to be British.
I'm interested in what is going to happen in the next few years, as regards the EU. If any other significant player EU member countries also end up leaving. I think things will be far more likely to change, as regards the EU.
The 27 are motivated to crucify the UK, "pour encourager les autres" - i.e. let their population see that leaving is worse than staying.
Oh, that will be the perfect illustration why the UK is much better out of this camp .
Prove that assertion.
This isn't a game, despite what some politicians evidently believe.
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .
Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.
Out of curiosity - what exactly about my statement you find "completely unbelievable"? Or just all of it? It is accurate to the best of my (first-hand) knowledge.
Cheers
Alex
Let me ask one simple question:
Did at any point in time was it stated that a simple majority of those who voted would result in an immutable obligation upon the UK government to exit the EU?
Yes.
Cheers
Alex
Hmm, any club where to join costs a pound and to leave - two pounds, smells just wrong to me. If EU officials consider ways to make the UK exit as difficult as possible (all for the common good of other members, obviously), that smells exactly as the Soviet type of politics. I sincerely hope that the EU would not use this kind of approach in practice, however we all will see what course will be taken soon enough.
Cheers
Alex
Hmm, any club where to join costs a pound and to leave - two pounds, smells just wrong to me. If EU officials consider ways to make the UK exit as difficult as possible (all for the common good of other members, obviously), that smells exactly as the Soviet type of politics. I sincerely hope that the EU would not use this kind of approach in practice, however we all will see what course will be taken soon enough.
Cheers
Alex
When I voted to join what was then the EEC I never voted for Political union.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feature_creepOf course he did:
http://www.hri.org/docs/Rome57/Preamble.html
"Determined to lay the foundations of an ever closer union among the peoples of Europe"
Let me ask one simple question:
Did at any point in time was it stated that a simple majority of those who voted would result in an immutable obligation upon the UK government to exit the EU?
Having been through the Berlin Wall several times, and having had family friends that crawled under the Iron Curtain to escape, your statement is completely unbelievable.
Alright then, i dont vote and do bitch because there is no realistic choices to vote on, so your "american way" is for me a bit of a contradiction... sort of.. Still, out of 318.9 mill people Trump is the only other realistic choice seams just a bit odd, but actually it would be quite interesting to see Trump as president..I assume anything from highly entertaining to hideous disgusting, or both!
I've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .
While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion. You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme. In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.
For those who might wonder what I mean:
Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.
You could stick the very same label on anyone who votes for Hillary to! None of these are a "rational" vote as you try to make it.
But if you for a second put all that Washington post ect blabber aside and look into either one of these you get a textbook narcissist/oligarch, what kind of less-of-the-same is that? Hitler, Mossulini etc was also "disturbers".. Voting for any of these will just divide US even further but i suspect after reading your posts that is what you want?
Besides where is the "reasonable evidence" based on Trumps blabber for what Trump would/could achieve as president? Most of his promises is just wierd and even bended against the constitution. Trump on the other hand have managed to anger the Scotts at his golf course and earlier NRA with his "guns-in-the-bar-idea". What kind of ""disturbance"" was that? all it ended in was senate deadlock and the arms restriction law into the bin one more time. Trump didn't change status qou at all, he rather cemented it! And voting in Hillary would most likely end in the very same cementing!
I have to vote! If I don't vote, I can't bitch. So sayeth my father a long time ago!
I would absolutely never vote for Hillary and Trump is the only other realistic choice. There is no check box for None Of The Above. We have a vacancy in the Supreme Court. I would be happy with a vacancy in the Office of the President.
Alright then, i dont vote and do bitch because there is no realistic choices to vote on, so your "american way" is for me a bit of a contradiction... sort of.. Still, out of 318.9 mill people Trump is the only other realistic choice seams just a bit odd, but actually it would be quite interesting to see Trump as president..I assume anything from highly entertaining to hideous disgusting, or both!I asked before to name one thing the UK is good at. So far the only significant item on the list seems that London is Europe's financial centre.
Fish and Chips? Easy for EU to move banking to Frankfurt or Paris.
I would also like to inform debaters about the Nordic agreement started in 1952 which enables Nordic's to work, live study buy property etc in these countries:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_Passport_Union
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.Quote from: Alex NikitinI've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion. You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme. In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.
For those who might wonder what I mean:
Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.
Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.
If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!
In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.
That's a hell of a difference.
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.Quote from: Alex NikitinI've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion. You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme. In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.
For those who might wonder what I mean:
Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.
Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.
If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!
In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.
That's a hell of a difference.
If I have gotten that the wrong way around, then my apologies - but the impression I got was that the hierarchy of the EU was starting to show signs of getting possessive.
London is a GLOBAL banking centre.
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.Quote from: Alex NikitinI've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion. You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme. In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.
For those who might wonder what I mean:
Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.
Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.
If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!
In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.
That's a hell of a difference.
Trimmed/reorganised to highlight the key point which has evidently been missed; look in Brumby's original message for full history.Quote from: Alex NikitinI've lived in the USSR half of my life, there people trying to leave the country were shot at or sent to labour camps - all for the common good. Now EU starts to smell that way .While I neither agree or disagree with Alex's statement, I do appreciate the point he has made - and can see how he has formed this opinion. You, however, have taken the concept being presented to the ridiculous extreme. In my eyes at least, you have lost all credibility in this line of discussion.
For those who might wonder what I mean:
Alex Nikitin is saying 'It seems to be getting warmer' and tggzzz has responded with 'Show me where are sitting on the surface of the sun with our backsides getting fried'.
Er. No. You've got that completely the wrong way round.
If you want to use that analogy, Nikitin compared sitting on the surface of the sun with it getting warmer in the EU. Nikitin mentioned people being shot/imprisoned. I objected to that ridiculous comparison!
In the USSR and satellites I know people that risked their lives to escape, and I personally saw (and have photos of) the killing zone on the "other" side of the Berlin Wall. As far as I am aware people are still risking their lives to get into the EU.
That's a hell of a difference.
As you've just quoted, I said only "starts to smell that way" , which is quite obviously very far from the full Soviet "paradise" , so Brumby did understand my point correctly, and you've overreacted rather badly, sorry to say.
London is a GLOBAL banking centre.
Until now, because it has provided access to the EU market.
It seems to go to Frankfurt: http://www.bbc.com/news/business-36698382
Your comparison is still ridiculous, and does a disservice to those that lived under those conditions in the USSR.
There's too much black propaganda on topics like this. Certainly Putin would like to do to the EU what we did to the USSR.