Techman-001, you are 100% correct, except for one thing. You talk about learning from your past.
Yes, if you are educated and proficient with STM devices and dev tools and supply chain, I'm sure there is almost no reason to use any other microcontroller in a volume product. Today. The cost of these devices can be significantly cheaper, even, than other devices that are way inferior in most ways (other than maybe some electrical specifications in some cases).
But if you learn from your past, you know this is a temporary situation. In X years from now, STM32 is obsolete, too! Perhaps not even due to technological advancement. It might be some other whim of industry or business or some other butterfly effect.
Assuming (some) people will still want a simple way to interact with hardware in ways that don't need the latest cutting edge speeds and memory and floating point math, the Arduino platform may avoid this fate. Either the AVR from 1970 will not become obsolete, because Arduino community will continue to use it in enough volume that Microchip/Atmel will not phase it out. Or the community will adapt and incorporate better more modern microcontrollers to the Arduino platform in a way that the average user will not have to learn much to use the new greatest and latest Arduino Pikachu. (One day, maybe Arduino Techman is created, even... with an STM32 on the board?)
Arduino means you don't have to keep learning in order to do the same things you always did... and not get bent over when that part becomes obsolete and starts to cost 4-5x as much. You can use that hammer for a whole bunch of nails. And you can learn to use the latest greatest fancy biscuit jointer if and when you have to. After you do so, you might like it so much you make everything with it.. but one day it is also badly obsolete and overpriced unobtanium... When that happen, you might still have a trusty hammer, lying around, which is at least good enough to drive nails. And in the future, the latest Arduino has more speed and capabilities and less bugs than it has today, even. The Arduino platform is sustained and evolved by its user base. It is not chained to a particular micro. I kinda doubt it is ever going to deviate from AVR family, but who knows.
If you are a high school or university, do you get to take choose your classes to learn STM32 or modern AVR or modern PIC? Not usually. You would need to find the teachers that continually learn and teach the latest cuttest edge devices and completely change and update curriculum. They can offer classes using Arduino, because it's simpler and because you can bet it will still be relevant in 10-20 years.
Writing embedded firmware from scratch can be enjoyable, but once it comes to implementing complex stuff like USB or Ethernet, using a library makes things a lot easier.
why would anyone think that Microchip/Avr is any different or has any advantages compared to any other MCU manufacturer such as STM in terms of long term variability?
Quotewhy would anyone think that Microchip/Avr is any different or has any advantages compared to any other MCU manufacturer such as STM in terms of long term variability?I agree. I don't know which one will be around longer. I assume they will all change. Today's STM32 will be tomorrow's Z80. Today's modern PIC will be the same.
In many cases, the only reason to not use the latest and greatest - when it actually can do the job at least as well if not better, and it actually is cheaper - is because of the learning curve. To a hobbyist, I suppose that just means more fun.
Using a modern 3.3 V MCU and $5 in driver chips to do what a $5 MCU board will do is fairly silly unless you *really* need something the modern MCU does.
Please explain why a $0.45 STM32L053 needs $5 in driver chips and a $5 (Arduino) MCU board does not ? Try and be specific, I'm sure most on this forum will be able to follow you.
Because GPIB is 5 V TTL logic and the STM32 will not *drive* 5 V logic unless you add GPIB bus drivers. The ATMEGA line will.
Unfortunately, it doesn't matter what I do for a living. If I was a professional athlete, I would not enjoy playing the game. If I was a professional skydiver, jumping out of planes would be a chore.
I'd much rather be earning money off interest.
Now, I do like to make things. I'm just not on the cutting edge of technology. Lots of other people are using variety of microcontrollers that are not the best tool for the job. People use stuff other than STM32.
If you were using the most efficient and cheapest micro for every job, you would also have to learn to use 3 cent chinese microcontrollers.
Um ... I gotta disagree with you here about every profession being a chore to everyone
I'm genuinely sorry for anyone who feels that way.
Arduino, (in my opinion) because it draws Lay persons into its ranks like a moth to a flame, is responsible for generating the most ridiculous claims, passed on from one ignorant user to the next. This is perfectly understandable and although it may sound like I'm berating Arduino users, I'm not. Those that make these claims simply don't know any better.
And yours is a typical example.
We all showed up at work at 7am and left at 10pm every day because the projects were our lives, nothing else mattered.
Because GPIB is 5 V TTL logic and the STM32 will not *drive* 5 V logic unless you add GPIB bus drivers. The ATMEGA line will.Thank you for your example above regarding the STM32 which langwadt has already shown in this thread to be fallacious.
QuoteUm ... I gotta disagree with you here about every profession being a chore to everyoneNever did I suggest that.QuoteI'm genuinely sorry for anyone who feels that way.Thanks. I wish I could be a happier slave.QuoteArduino, (in my opinion) because it draws Lay persons into its ranks like a moth to a flame, is responsible for generating the most ridiculous claims, passed on from one ignorant user to the next. This is perfectly understandable and although it may sound like I'm berating Arduino users, I'm not. Those that make these claims simply don't know any better.
And yours is a typical example.I dunno if it matters, but, FWIW, I have never used an Arduino in my life. But I can appreciate what it does for those who it's catered to.
Because GPIB is 5 V TTL logic and the STM32 will not *drive* 5 V logic unless you add GPIB bus drivers. The ATMEGA line will.Thank you for your example above regarding the STM32 which langwadt has already shown in this thread to be fallacious.You did not explain for those ignorant - how can STM32L053 drive 5V logic bus w/o level converter.
We all showed up at work at 7am and left at 10pm every day because the projects were our lives, nothing else mattered.
I'd rather suicide than live a life without something interesting besides electronics
Live to work is so wrong from so many perspectives....
Various employers thought they could make a slave out of me at various times. I left on the spot, walked right out and into a better job. Somehow I survived to this decrepit old age
I have a Arduino kit, I bought 6 for my children. None of them do electronics, none of them will ever read this forum. Arduino is perfect for them.
Because GPIB is 5 V TTL logic and the STM32 will not *drive* 5 V logic unless you add GPIB bus drivers. The ATMEGA line will.Thank you for your example above regarding the STM32 which langwadt has already shown in this thread to be fallacious.You did not explain for those ignorant - how can STM32L053 drive 5V logic bus w/o level converter.Were you born lazy or is your browser scroll button simply broken ?
Scroll down to where langwadt explains why.
Live to work is so wrong from so many perspectives....
QuoteVarious employers thought they could make a slave out of me at various times. I left on the spot, walked right out and into a better job. Somehow I survived to this decrepit old ageHeh. I have a pretty good thing going. I have been my own boss in my own business for over a decade. I work how I want, when I want. I get to solve unique problems, regularly, and I take pride in my work. Most importantly, I use a large variety of skills and never have to do the same thing for an extended period. This is pretty much as good as I can imagine, short of winning the lottery.
But I'm a slave to a mortgage. I'm a slave to building a retirement. I'm a slave to my health insurance. I was born a slave. Most of us were. We don't wear physical chains, anymore, and we have a great illusion of freedom. But it is what it is. 95% of us are slaves.QuoteI have a Arduino kit, I bought 6 for my children. None of them do electronics, none of them will ever read this forum. Arduino is perfect for them.My brother has suggested I teach my nephew what I do. I'm reluctant for a couple reasons, but one is because I'm obsolete. I was obsolete when I started, and I didn't gain any ground in the meantime. Arduino is a much better idea for him, IMO.
Because GPIB is 5 V TTL logic and the STM32 will not *drive* 5 V logic unless you add GPIB bus drivers. The ATMEGA line will.Thank you for your example above regarding the STM32 which langwadt has already shown in this thread to be fallacious.You did not explain for those ignorant - how can STM32L053 drive 5V logic bus w/o level converter.Were you born lazy or is your browser scroll button simply broken ?Please keep it professional.QuoteScroll down to where langwadt explains why.So you agree to claim that (3.3V) STM32L053 can be directly connected to 5V GBIP bus? That is not even fallacy, that is outright wrong. Hint: GPIB is multi-master bidirectional bus.
BMK?
It's up to you to support your claim that the STM32L053 can't be directly connected to 5V GBIP bus.
If I want a hint, I'll phone the Psychic Friends Network not you.
Please take your 'professional' trolling elsewhere or learn to actually put some effort into your followups.
It's up to you to support your claim that the STM32L053 can't be directly connected to 5V GBIP bus.
It's up to you to support your claim that the STM32L053 can't be directly connected to 5V GBIP bus.
If I want a hint, I'll phone the Psychic Friends Network not you.
Please take your 'professional' trolling elsewhere or learn to actually put some effort into your followups.You claim STM32 is a functional substitute. The onus is on you to provide evidence. Pointing at messages of other people requires including a link to said message as the onus is still on you. Without the provided evidence the claim is to be considered unproven.
It's up to you to support your claim that the STM32L053 can't be directly connected to 5V GBIP bus.
@langwadt missed to mention 5V-tolerant I/O as precondition. Perhaps Arduino users are ignorant, but seems like stm32 users are arrogant
I'm still waiting for you to actually read this thread and comprehend it.
It's never going to happen is it ?
I'm still waiting for you to actually read this thread and comprehend it.
It's never going to happen is it ?
What are you talking about. Quote or pointer/link please.