Author Topic: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux  (Read 30390 times)

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Offline Kilrah

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #150 on: April 08, 2016, 01:06:10 pm »
Theeeeen save yourself the hassle and don't use them, many other options  :-+
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #151 on: April 08, 2016, 01:10:49 pm »
Linux/open systems are a rolling ball, as mentioned when you're working on it daily you'll see small things break due to updated dependencies etc

I am dealing with gentoo, and this "rolling ball" always takes a looooooooooooooooooooot of effort
even if I am behind the Catalyst firewall, I happen to rebuild everything from the scratch
but hey? in 2004 that task took 1 week to prepare a FULL working stage3
nowadays it takes 2-3 weeks  …. and you always have to check it double the double due the increased complexity

things keep getting …… better in their being like rolling ball  :-DD :-DD :-DD
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #152 on: April 08, 2016, 01:12:42 pm »
Theeeeen save yourself the hassle and don't use them, many other options  :-+


yep, I will have to sell my penguin hat and t-shirt  :D :D :D
(but … don't touch my BDI1000 !!! never for sale!)
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #153 on: April 08, 2016, 02:21:20 pm »
2-3 weeks for a stage3? ... more like an afternoon.

How exactly is mount broken? Would you care to elaborate rather than inarticulately whinge?
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #154 on: April 08, 2016, 02:42:50 pm »
2-3 weeks for a stage3? ... more like an afternoon

yeah, the hardened and endurance take 2-3 weeks
plus more 4 days for the stage4, we are speaking about things for production

have you ever tried to build an-uclibc-stage3 for mips4 (which is not MIPS32) :D ?
OpenWRT and his friend are simply IGNORING mips4, so you will have fun  :D

In my opinion this was funny


by the end of the last year I was able to complete an uclibc stage3 in 2 weeks, by ONLY using very ugly tricks
(hybridizing old things, which is very bad, but hey? I am limited) while Catalyst is still (after 4 mounts) defective  :o :o :o

hobby purpose in this case, so we schedule the activity in our part time
since there is no valid reason (except the intellect challenge) to run linux on Octane(1)

however, the interesting things is that during the switching from 2.6.17 (2006) to 3.1 v4.3.0 (2015) everything
everything went broken X___________X

* * * everything that could have been broken was really broken * * *

and it feel that it was the Murphy law, applied to everything, kernel, tools, rootfs … everything ...
… like a spell on you, like voodoo, and I have learnt that I'd better avoid to underestimate it  :o :o :o


(1) it's an old workstation made by SGI, deprecated since 2004
« Last Edit: April 08, 2016, 04:49:31 pm by legacy »
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #155 on: April 08, 2016, 03:06:54 pm »
How exactly is mount broken? Would you care to elaborate rather than inarticulately whinge?

don't worry, I am not here to ask help, I am here to have a beer
or a tea, if you prefer to be British

crossdev claimed it can't complete its job because it doesn't like the overlay (due to bugs)
uuuuu, really? I wiped it out, and I switched to Angstrom by OE which completed the job

Oh, Angstrom installed on gentoo to crosscompile gentoo tools, it makes sense  :-DD

and mount has a strange behavior now, before updating (emerge --sync, and update) it worked as expected
once updated … well,  in first place "mount -o remount,rw /" stopped to work
claiming a lot of strange (not able to be understood, not intelligible) errors
which practically were solved by invoking it as "mount -o remount,rw /dev/sdb1 /"

ironically it claimed that "/dev/mtab was impossible to read/write"
are you fooling me? really? enjoy my 2 seconds workaround
thus I replaced the whole /etc/init.d with customized scripts
which are under control, and do their job

I have really no time to investigate, I am tired and late

all the software steps are completed, tested, and working, I am burning a couple of DVDs as "Virtual Box image"
inside my customer will find a working builder, which is able to build his old linux kernel and the whole powerpc rootfs

that is the only way I can afford the linux stress:  "don't care, go on"
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #156 on: April 08, 2016, 03:37:25 pm »
You might want to look into how your root filesystem is actually mounted..
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #157 on: April 08, 2016, 04:52:06 pm »
before emerge-upgrade (when mount was working)
linux booted, and it invoked "mount -o remount,rw /"
 
after upgrade (before my ugly trick)
linux booted, it invoked "mount -o remount,rw /"
and … it failed, claiming that /etc/mtab was not accessible, and blablabla

currently
linux boots, it invokes "mount -o remount,rw /dev/sdb1/"
and … it works again


I do not want to know WHY/WHAT/WHO
it's fine, I am fine, don't touch it, that's all  :D
 

Offline Muxr

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #158 on: April 09, 2016, 01:14:33 am »
As a long time Linux user, I do get annoyed with Linux distributions as well. I think Linux on the Desktop has long ways to go still. Also frequent reinvent the wheel of some of the core system components does get really annoying. It's still way less annoying than Windows though.

On server however, it is lightyears ahead of anything else.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #159 on: April 10, 2016, 02:57:25 pm »
* H * A * T * E *


I was thinking that kmod-5 and kmod-4 were fine, and ….
"depmod -a <kernel_version>"  is broken, oh shit!
"make modules_install"  gets no all files created, oh shit!

and … once again the problem is added from kmod-5
because they "improved" (what?!?!?!?!?)
 
thus, I regressed kmod-5 back to kmod-4
and make modules_install is feeling fine  |O




edit: including their funny comment, can I still have a Pumpkin?!?!?
Quote
Warning: you may need to install module-init-tools
See http://www.codemonkey.org.uk/docs/post-halloween-2.6.txt
« Last Edit: April 10, 2016, 03:16:12 pm by legacy »
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #160 on: April 10, 2016, 02:59:11 pm »
Who would've expected ancient software to break when you start bolting newer pieces onto it? Not you, clearly..
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #161 on: April 10, 2016, 03:03:38 pm »
Who would've expected ancient software to break when you start bolting newer pieces onto it? Not you, clearly..

to be honest NO!
it's like expecting that "mount" has to change
when there are NO reasons to change
unless supporting the theory that
the purpose is making people to waste time
with silly things

I wasted 45 minutes on that bullshit, shit!
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #162 on: April 10, 2016, 03:09:11 pm »
Plenty of reasons to change. You just can't see them because you're not looking.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #163 on: April 10, 2016, 03:09:27 pm »
DVDs are still hot, they smell ready to be shipped
everything is freezed onto write once device
thus nobody (including G-BOYs) can change

and thanks God, the story ends
I am going to the swimming pool



thank you for your support, guys
have a nice Sunday :D :D :D
 

Offline mongo

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #164 on: April 11, 2016, 04:52:41 pm »
before emerge-upgrade (when mount was working)
linux booted, and it invoked "mount -o remount,rw /"
 
after upgrade (before my ugly trick)
linux booted, it invoked "mount -o remount,rw /"
and … it failed, claiming that /etc/mtab was not accessible, and blablabla

currently
linux boots, it invokes "mount -o remount,rw /dev/sdb1/"
and … it works again


I do not want to know WHY/WHAT/WHO
it's fine, I am fine, don't touch it, that's all  :D

If you look in 'man mount' you will see that they probably moved to UUID definitions within /etc/fstab.  UNIX has always been an expert system, and it does provide some useful shortcuts but the change does have a reason.  I can understand the frustration you are feeling and this is not intended as an insult but there is a huge difference between knowing the steps behind something and knowing why you are doing those steps.  There are very good reasons that they moved to UUID's in fstab including making it less painful for users when they changed the order that their hard drives were plugged in.  It may be that linux offers free upgrades between fairly major versions but IMHO this is more akin no not having mouse support when you add "LH MOUSE.COM /Y" to AUTOEXEC.BAT in windows 7.

Quote
remount
Attempt to remount an already-mounted filesystem. This is commonly used to change the mount flags for a filesystem, especially to make a readonly filesystem writeable. It does not change device or mount point.
The remount functionality follows the standard way how the mount command works with options from fstab. It means the mount command doesn't read fstab (or mtab) only when a device and dir are fully specified.

mount -o remount,rw /dev/foo /dir

After this call all old mount options are replaced and arbitrary stuff from fstab is ignored, except the loop= option which is internally generated and maintained by the mount command.

mount -o remount,rw /dir

After this call mount reads fstab (or mtab) and merges these options with options from command line ( -o ).

There are critical data safety and security reasons why any OS cannot "guess" what is the right drive to re-mount.  But I would much rather have a more stable, more secure system with modern capabilities than be tied to convenience features of commands for decades because users may not have read the manual.

This relates to the original complaint in this post, where an illegal behavior that had caused lots of issues finally had been enforced.  You do not get away from this issue even in systems which error towards the non-expert user like OS X, this is an intrinsic problem with complex systems.  Moving forward will result in changes, and changes that result from behaviors where programers and users explicitly ignore documentation will be low priority to protect.
 

Offline botcrusher

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #165 on: April 11, 2016, 05:16:53 pm »
'Nix is not for the faint of heart. not paying for an os has it's ups and downs, and most everything mentioned in this thread relates to the things an advanced power user has to do.

My current thought relates to a distro i have a relationship akin to your dear old cousin. I don't see him often, but when i do, it's a grand old time.

This distro is slitaz, and is an extreme example of just how awesome linux can be in the right hands. it can use modern software, but the base system can operate comfortably on minuscule amounts of ram. storage? on a 700 meg cd, it can store 20 copies of itself.

bypassing my drooling for a second, it may not be the easiest thing to fully get working, but i have managed to make pentium 4s and Ds look like speed demons. It's incredible how zippy this thing is when running modern software, it chews through chrome with similar speed to my desktop (once you get chrome running...) i've gotten both nvidia drivers and wine to run on it, but never have in the same install, so I really think I should do that.

Anyways, goes to show that in the right hands, it's incredibly useful. You pay a price in terms of the work spent, but at least to me it's quite worth it when i have to work with given hardware.

On a different note, I find it hilarious that wine can be faster at windows than windows  :-DD

Typing this on an underpowered ARM chromebook (they do run linux) that still tears through fairly intensive windows like they're nothing.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #166 on: April 11, 2016, 05:32:34 pm »
If you look in 'man mount' you will see that they probably moved to UUID definitions within /etc/fstab.

blablablabla you get the point: It worked before upgraded
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #167 on: April 11, 2016, 05:33:56 pm »
UNIX has always been an expert system

linux is not UNIX, never had such silly problems with IRIX
even if I upgraded from 6.5.8 to 6.5.30, so ...
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #168 on: April 11, 2016, 05:42:17 pm »
If you look in 'man mount' you will see that they probably moved to UUID definitions within /etc/fstab.

blablablabla you get the point: It worked before upgraded

It worked before you changed it without thinking
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #169 on: April 11, 2016, 05:45:19 pm »
but there is a huge difference between knowing the steps behind something and knowing why you are doing those steps

yes, Sherlock, the problem was related to glibc
I do not want to know what/where/who/how, it's crap code
what I know is: I recompiled the new gnu-libc manually
then I re-compiled (by emerge)
  • dev-libs/klibc
  • sys-apps/util-linux
and since then "mount" has been working as expected
(with no error accessing /etc/mtab /etc/fstab etc)
 

Online Monkeh

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #170 on: April 11, 2016, 05:51:31 pm »
No wonder your system is such a broken mess.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #171 on: April 11, 2016, 05:52:03 pm »
It worked before you changed it without thinking

are you retarded? or just here to troll?

easy steps, so  you can understand better

  • mount was working
  • I invoked emerge --sync and upgrade
  • the whole system was upgraded as described in the gentoo-documentation, and things (including mount and glibc) were recompiled from the scratch
  • I rebooted the machine
  • broken

thus, I fixed, in order to complete my task since I was late
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #172 on: April 11, 2016, 06:05:56 pm »
more specifically the following comes form gentoo, /etc/init.d/root

Code: [Select]
ebegin "Remounting root filesystem read/write"
                                case "$RC_UNAME" in
                                        Linux)
                                                mount -n -o remount,rw /
                                        ;;
                                        *)
                                                mount -u -o rw /
                                        ;;
 

Offline mongo

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #173 on: April 11, 2016, 06:24:24 pm »
It worked before you changed it without thinking

are you retarded? or just here to troll?

easy steps, so  you can understand better

  • mount was working
  • I invoked emerge --sync and upgrade
  • the whole system was upgraded as described in the gentoo-documentation, and things (including mount and glibc) were recompiled from the scratch
  • I rebooted the machine
  • broken

thus, I fixed, in order to complete my task since I was late

Well the fact that you chose to call me offensive names proves the problem is with you....but best of luck, hope that attitude works out for you.
 

Offline legacy

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Re: [solved] I really HATE gnu and linux
« Reply #174 on: April 11, 2016, 06:50:49 pm »
before emerge-upgrade (when mount was working)
linux booted, and it invoked "mount -o remount,rw /"
 
after upgrade (before my ugly trick)
linux booted, it invoked "mount -o remount,rw /"
and … it failed, claiming that /etc/mtab was not accessible, and blablabla

currently
linux boots, it invokes "mount -o remount,rw /dev/sdb1/"
and … it works again

more specifically the following comes form gentoo, /etc/init.d/root

Code: [Select]
ebegin "Remounting root filesystem read/write"
                                case "$RC_UNAME" in
                                        Linux)
                                                mount -n -o remount,rw /
                                        ;;
                                        *)
                                                mount -u -o rw /
                                        ;;
 


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