Siglent SDS1000X HD 12bit DSO's

[tautech]

Released 28 Feb 2024.

2 GSa/s 12 bit designs of 100MHz and 200MHz with 2 and 4ch versions



Early prerelease HW:


2 and 4ch versions
50/1M Ohm inputs.
100 Mpts mem depth
10.1" 1024×600 touch display
Bode plot
4 Math channels
Max 2 Mpts FFT
Standard Decodes I2C, SPI, UART, CAN, LIN plus CAN FD and Flexray decode only
Webserver

Options
Power Analysis
External USB 25 MHz AWG
External 16ch MSO module

https://int.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000hd/
https://siglentna.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/
https://www.siglenteu.com/digital-oscilloscopes/sds1000x-hd-digital-storage-oscilloscope/

Siglent video


Dave does a teardown and quick look at operation.
Makes a few errors that study of the datasheet may have revealed the facts.

[thm_w]

IMO good sign that the LA and gen are external, hopefully means a lower price target than the 2000.

Comparison:


Translated datasheet attached.

[Martin72]

4 Math channels

Are they kidding me ?! 
SDS2000X+, SDS2000HD, SDS5000X and even the Lecroy(Siglent)Wavesurfer 3000Z/4000HD are having only 2...

[tautech]

Any guesses on cost ?

Traditionally the Chinese website costs have been way off converted to USD however I did some cost comparisons Chinese website vs USA website looking for current western models showing the same 9080 Yuan cost for 4ch SDS1104X HD and same price was found for the USD999 SDS2102X Plus !

However SDS2352X-E is listed on the China website for a little more, 9380 Yuan but in USD it's even cheaper at $839 !
My guess for SDS1104X HD is between $849 and 999 !

Where are the competition priced ?

IMO good sign that the LA and gen are external, hopefully means a lower price target than the 2000.

As you can see I've been wondering about that too yet the case is certainly large enough to have shoehorned those features into it yet with the existing product lines of SPL1016 and SAG2021I it makes sense to use them to help keep the scope costs down.
I only hope WiFi capability gets added as it's been a quite popular connectivity option for the X-E DSO's and with their newish clock feature also helps overcome the missing RTC and timestamp capability so many 1000 class DSO's lack.
But if we look closely at the datasheet images this new HD model does sport a clock and date just as all the other 10"+ display models do. 

[ojete]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

[Neutrion]

I am glad that Siglent didn't jump on the "black is cool" train, this is much friendlier, and I hope that the knobs won't have a sticky shitty timebomb rubber cover!

Also hope that the nice(and useful) colourful channel buttons will be  kept as there is no colour to see on the pictures. 

[Grandchuck]

Started by Keysight?  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/is-keysight-changing-colours-beige-to-black/

[Martin72]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.

Scope is for measuring, not for watching movies.

[ojete]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.

Scope is for measuring, not for watching movies.

What a surprise, I've always used the screen of the scope to watch films... and also to watch SpongeBob.
12 bits means 4096 levels and you are going to watch it in a screen with 600 horizontal pixels, but hey it's only 1k$.
I'd like to remember we are in 2023, in 1992 the display of my pc had exactly the same resolution.

[tautech]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

You're not into comparing datasheets are you ?
Maybe deeper study will reveal stuff you have missed.

[pope]

Looking nice.

[ojete]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

You're not into comparing datasheets are you ?
Maybe deeper study will reveal stuff you have missed.

I'm not comparing datasheets.
You can be kindly enough to tell me the stuff I have missed.
What prevents me of buying the rigol dho1000 is the lack of bode plot and the bugs it has. I'm not interested in digital inputs, only analog.

[tautech]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

You're not into comparing datasheets are you ?
Maybe deeper study will reveal stuff you have missed.

I'm not comparing datasheets.
You can be kindly enough to tell me the stuff I have missed.
What prevents me of buying the rigol dho1000 is the lack of bode plot and the bugs it has. I'm not interested in digital inputs, only analog.

1. You should be aware Rigol are now using their own ASIC > engage 2ch and = SDS1000X HD sampling rate.
2. Memory depth is much less, only 50 Mpts, 100 Mpts optional. SDS1000X HD = 100 Mpts/ch std.
3. Sampling rates, 50k vs 100k
4. Cost DHO1104 $ 1399 vs SDS1104X HD $1k ?
5. 1M vs 50/1M inputs.
6. MSO and AWG options for HD Siglent.

Unknown, Rigol has no probe sense while Siglent SDS1000X HD has the gold sense rings around the input BNC's, one would presume they will work.

[baldurn]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

[Martin72]

I'd like to remember we are in 2023

Therefore we can discuss about 12 bit scopes for insane less money.
In february I had the rigol DHO4204 for 2.5 weeks here, the results you can read in the rigol thread.
The summary in short was, with the current software status (lots of bugs, lack of features in general) the rigol is not recommendable or can compete against the 2K+HD.
I like the new UI and the finer graphic details of the icons because of the higher display resolution, but this is not a gamechanger or an important decision point.
But back to the 1000XHD..
If it will be in the pricerange of the DHO1000, we will have the same situation like I described before.
Plus the obvious pros the siglent have against the DHO1000.
@Rob:
When it´s true the 1000X HD will have 4 math channels, I expect to have them too on my 2K+HD in one of the next updates, everything else will be a shame..

[Martin72]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

What means "worse" ?, the samplerate?

[Fungus]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.

Scope is for measuring, not for watching movies.

You're only saying that because it can't do it.

(Micsig can!)

[baldurn]

What means "worse" ?, the samplerate?

Yes, the sample rate is only half of the 8 bit scope with 3 or 4 channels active. I suppose it means they only have one shared ADC for all four channels.

[Martin72]

(Micsig can!)

Doesn´t surprise me in several ways...

[Martin72]

Yes, the sample rate is only half of the 8 bit scope with 3 or 4 channels active. I suppose it means they only have one shared ADC for all four channels.

You could be right, same on the rigol 1000.
It seems that´s the only way to make the scopes cheaper when using a 12 bit system.

[mawyatt]

Rigol rolled their own HS 12bit ADC chip and altho they have a large NRE chip development cost to recover, benefit from a lower recurring chip cost. While Siglent evidently is using a commercially available ADC, they will incur a higher recurring chip cost and these chips are likely the single most expensive item in the BOM.

So seems Siglent chose to use a single ADC and multiplex for each channel to meet their intended cost and market target. Also think the removal of the AWG and using a simpler internal digital interface helps using the external digital probe with active circuitry. The internal AWG in the SDS2000X+ types has limited capability and suspect most serious users utilize an external AWG anyway.

Best,

[Martin72]

To be honest,
Buying the rigol MSO5074 was the first time I came in contact with a inbuild awg - Never it comes to my mind having one in a scope.
For me it´s a "solution for very urgent situations", never a decision point or a stopper, when a scope doesn´t have it on board.

[Bud]

Looks awful. Is industry going back to tower style oscilloscopes ?

[Martin72]

What looks awful ?

[rf-loop]

Looks awful. Is industry going back to tower style oscilloscopes ?

Instead, least I hope even more vertical height for screen.
Usually also on working table there is more vertical room than horizontal. But there is also other important reasons.

Old times mostly usual oscilloscopes was with 2 channel and even zoom was stacked over main trace with only horizontal zoom.
Now we have least 4 analog channels and propability to use also 16 digital channels all together and splitted window zoom with normal horizontal zoom but also vertical zoom. And even more, serial decodings what also need room on display area so that time correlation with signals can keep.
Measurements instead we can display "where ever", now these use mostly also this very small vertical resources.

Sometimes it feels like everyone just imitates each other and thinking is avoided. Imitate each other even more, then it doesn't matter which manufacturer you get it from.

We need urgently and desperately more vertical height than ever before. When we now see these "wide screen" display in oscilloscopes I think sometimes that maybe thinking has become old-fashioned and thinking is no longer fashionable. Yes I understand it in entertainment displays but why in TM instruments.

One solution is use enough big TFT but also then turn it so that long side is vertical or example 5:4 format or 4:5. My prognose is that this time is coming - or not and then we suffer more and more with these low height wide screens.
When LeCroy did it first time, perhaps time was wrong and the difference felt strange and also others did not follow (least I do not know any one).
Today we do not need display what user can turn 90 degree.  It can be fixed so that mechanical construction is not this " fancy " LeCroy but we need more vertical room, desperately and urgently. Who do it now right way first time,  I jump right into his/her journey.

[robert.rozee]

hopefully folks won't deride this as a silly question... but what practical usage advantage does a 12-bit scope have over an 8-bit scope?

it seems to me that 12-bits gets you a 16x vertical zoom advantage, but i can't see that as being something that would be of much value in most usage cases. and how much useful information do those extra 4 bits really carry?

a distinct disadvantage seems to be the loss of features at a given price point, as manufacturers need to cut costs elsewhere to pay for the 12-bit hardware. for instance: all else being equal, would you rather your 4-channel scope have a single shared 12-bit ADC, or 4 independent 8-bit ADC?

i also wonder if much of the advantage of a 12-bit ADC could be achieved with front-end improvements that allow precise DC offsetting (even if only on 1 of the 4 channels) that gives you a view into a narrow vertical band (for example, dial in a 5v offset so you you can look at a 4.95v to 5.05v band without distortions due to over-driving of the front end).


cheers,
rob   :-)

[Martin72]

Hi,

a distinct disadvantage seems to be the loss of features at a given price point, as manufacturers need to cut costs elsewhere to pay for the 12-bit hardware.

I think this only applies to the low-cost variants in order to be able to offer a 12-bit scope in the segment at all.
The lecroy HDO6034B for example has the full sample rate and the full memory even if all channels are active.
But it also costs 18000$ as an entry in this series.
That's why the models from Siglent (2000X+HD) and Rigol (DHO4000) are also low cost, with corresponding concessions.
These become even more significant if you make it even cheaper (DHO1000 and SDS1000X HD, respectively).
So what are the advantages, a small insight gives this article:
https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/test-measurement/article/21805339/whats-really-the-difference-between-a-12bit-and-8bit-oscilloscope

I took last year nearly 3600€ in the hand and stood before the decision, I buy the new 12 bit model of siglent, with max 2GSa/s and 100Mhz(max. 500Mhz).
Or the SDS5000X with 350Mhz (max 1Ghz) and 5GSa/s.
Both cost about the same.
I decided then for 12bit, because I would like to use its advantages in the middle future.
For my current measurements in practice it is irrelevant whether 8bit or 12bit.
You have to think about it, do I really need a higher accuracy (now or later) yes or no.
Because currently you can get a better equipped 8 bit scope for the same money or even less.
E.g. for a DHO1000 a MSO5000 from rigol or a 2000X+ from Siglent.
Or for a DHO4000 or 2000+HD a SDS5000X.

[robert.rozee]

https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/test-measurement/article/21805339/whats-really-the-difference-between-a-12bit-and-8bit-oscilloscope

good article, although i was a little puzzled by this part:
"Most modern, mid-range oscilloscopes include a high-resolution mode, which increases the number of bits by filtering. In essence, bandwidth is traded off for the increased dynamic range. Basically you get one additional bit for each halving of the scope’s bandwidth. Therefore, to achieve a 4-bit increase, it would reduce the scope’s bandwidth by 16:1. So if you start with a 1-GHz scope, increasing the resolution to 12 bits with the high-resolution mode would reduce the scope’s bandwidth to below 100 MHz."

my understand was that for each ONE bit increase, it required 4x oversampling, leading to a bandwidth [addendum: i should probably be talking about 'sample rate' here, not 'bandwidth'] reduction of 256:1 to get the extra 4 bits. perhaps we are instead seeing 10-bit ADCs being used with a further 2 bits then obtained in software to give us the final 12 bits. i shall need to research this point some more - if the author is correct then i have a few (abandoned) projects i need to revisit!

he does present one example, a decaying ringing, that nicely illustrates a useful application, and i guess if this sort of example dominates your area of interest then a 12-bit scope would be a time-saver. however, i could see that with the right setup the same level of detail could be captured with two 8-bit channels each set for different vertical scales (once over-driving issues were eliminated).

you are right, that in the end it comes down to balancing budgets and individual user cases. and as always, any advances will filter down over time into even the lowest end of the market. essentially, a 12-bit scope is one step towards replacing the venerable 3½-digit multimeter on one's workbench. but for today, at what cost?


cheers,
rob   :-)


addendum (a day later) see text in bold red above

[baldurn]

If you are going to do math, especially FFT, those extra bits will make a huge difference.

In addition the noise floor of the SDS2000X-HD is specified as 50 mikrovolt. The SDS2000X+ specifies "sensitivity" of 0.5 div with minimum div of 500 mikrovolt = 250 mikrovolt. So I expect you do get less noise?

Also looks like the new SDS1000X-HD is getting the new "glass cockpit". I know it is the same UI etc but I think it looks nicer :-)

[tautech]

Also looks like the new SDS1000X-HD is getting the new "glass cockpit". I know it is the same UI etc but I think it looks nicer :-)

What does that actually mean, you've lost me what a glass cockpit has to do with a DSO ? 

SDS1000X HD is in the exact same enclosure as SDS2000X HD with the same physical measurements 317.2 mm × 236.0 mm × 149.0 mm and same weight too 4.1 kg.

This newish front panel layout is a consolidation and improvement of SDS2000X Plus with smarter use of the GUI and menu structure however I am saddened SDS1000X HD is not apparently supplied with a wireless mouse as SDS2000X HD and SDS6000A are as this UI does benefit from use with a mouse although it certainly doesn't require one to be fully functional.

[2N3055]

https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/test-measurement/article/21805339/whats-really-the-difference-between-a-12bit-and-8bit-oscilloscope

good article, although i was a little puzzled by this part:
"Most modern, mid-range oscilloscopes include a high-resolution mode, which increases the number of bits by filtering. In essence, bandwidth is traded off for the increased dynamic range. Basically you get one additional bit for each halving of the scope’s bandwidth. Therefore, to achieve a 4-bit increase, it would reduce the scope’s bandwidth by 16:1. So if you start with a 1-GHz scope, increasing the resolution to 12 bits with the high-resolution mode would reduce the scope’s bandwidth to below 100 MHz."

my understand was that for each ONE bit increase, it required 4x oversampling, leading to a bandwidth [addendum: i should probably be talking about 'sample rate' here, not 'bandwidth'] reduction of 256:1 to get the extra 4 bits. perhaps we are instead seeing 10-bit ADCs being used with a further 2 bits then obtained in software to give us the final 12 bits. i shall need to research this point some more - if the author is correct then i have a few (abandoned) projects i need to revisit!

he does present one example, a decaying ringing, that nicely illustrates a useful application, and i guess if this sort of example dominates your area of interest then a 12-bit scope would be a time-saver. however, i could see that with the right setup the same level of detail could be captured with two 8-bit channels each set for different vertical scales (once over-driving issues were eliminated).

you are right, that in the end it comes down to balancing budgets and individual user cases. and as always, any advances will filter down over time into even the lowest end of the market. essentially, a 12-bit scope is one step towards replacing the venerable 3½-digit multimeter on one's workbench. but for today, at what cost?


cheers,
rob   :-)


addendum (a day later) see text in bold red above

When you do Hi Res in software, actual BW is reduced. It works by basically enabling digital low pass filter. So you get smaller effective sample rate (less points in time interval) and digitally filtered lower BW...
Both is less. That is opposed to simply reducing sample rate where you only get less points.

[thm_w]

The resolution of the screen is pretty low, no hdmi or video output of any kind, no wifi.
Having to use an external signal generator makes it more expensive, not cheaper.
I was waiting for Siglent to release the competition of the rigol dho1000 but this is not very tempting.
As with the dho1000 the only good thing are the 12 bit.

Anyone considering a 12 bit scope would likely already own an external sig gen of better capability than you can bundle in. If this were a $400 entry level scope I would understand your point.

Also looks like the new SDS1000X-HD is getting the new "glass cockpit". I know it is the same UI etc but I think it looks nicer :-)

What does that actually mean, you've lost me what a glass cockpit has to do with a DSO ? 

I think they just mean glass cockpit = less physical buttons and more use of the touch screen.
Compared to sds1000x 36 buttons this has cut it to 23 buttons. Same 6 knobs but placed closer together.

Just personal preference. I would probably go with the larger screen.

[Martin72]

If the housing is really the same as the 2000X HD, then it will be in superb quality.
I like it a lot on my SDS2000X HD, also the rotary knobs/encoders with their "clicking sound".
Display should be also the same, then the probesensed 1M/50ohm inputs...
I´m very curious about the entry-price.

[tautech]

Also looks like the new SDS1000X-HD is getting the new "glass cockpit". I know it is the same UI etc but I think it looks nicer :-)

What does that actually mean, you've lost me what a glass cockpit has to do with a DSO ? 

I think they just mean glass cockpit = less physical buttons and more use of the touch screen.
Compared to sds1000x 36 buttons this has cut it to 23 buttons. Same 6 knobs but placed closer together.

Just personal preference. I would probably go with the larger screen.

Yep, that makes sense I guess.

I use the 1000X-E and these touch screen DSO lots and each has ways to best utilise them however nothing compares with the larger touch screen display when you add a mouse.

When you have 3 user input methods after some little practice to find/discover most efficient usage methods throughput is dramatically improved but it does take a little while to discover all the features the GUI offers like hidden virtual keyboards and mouse scroll wheel support.

I imagine this new 1kX HD model will include all the GUI features of its big brothers, SDS5000X, SDS2000X Plus, SDS2000X HD and SDS6000A.

[BillyO]

I want one.  It would make a perfect side-kick to my SDS2504X-P.

Is anyone interested in s slightly used 6 moth old SDS1104X-E (fully liberated)?

[Performa01]

hopefully folks won't deride this as a silly question... but what practical usage advantage does a 12-bit scope have over an 8-bit scope?

it seems to me that 12-bits gets you a 16x vertical zoom advantage, but i can't see that as being something that would be of much value in most usage cases. and how much useful information do those extra 4 bits really carry?

First we should consider the fact that even on an entry level DSO, the vertical screen height (in pixels) is at least twice as much as the net number of levels in an 8-bit ADC. Thus, every data point is actually drawn as a line that is two (or even more) pixels high if you utilize a full screen waveform display.

This is an issue especially for the XY-mode, where this problem exists not only for the vertical direction, but also horizontally. Each display dot is actually a square of 2 x 2 pixels on an 8-bit scope. The sole reason why it still looks decent is the DPO technology, mixing a picture from thousands of single acquisitions.

The above have been only the visual effects so far.

Dynamic range is another important consideration, especially when using math, as has already been mentioned before. It makes a difference if we have a guaranteed genuine dynamic range of 49 dB or 72 dB – and this difference can be demonstrated quite easily. I have once shown a few examples in the SDS2000X HD thread…

a distinct disadvantage seems to be the loss of features at a given price point, as manufacturers need to cut costs elsewhere to pay for the 12-bit hardware. for instance: all else being equal, would you rather your 4-channel scope have a single shared 12-bit ADC, or 4 independent 8-bit ADC?

Well, this is not a valid question. If you need (or even only want) 12 bits, then you don't care.

Apart from that: few DSOs have independent ADCs per channel these days. Most of the better ones have two ADCs for four channels. At Siglent, the only exception currently is the SDS6000A (8-bit) and the SDS6000 H10/12 Pro (10/12 bit, available in China only), which use four independent 5 GSa/s ADCs.

i also wonder if much of the advantage of a 12-bit ADC could be achieved with front-end improvements that allow precise DC offsetting (even if only on 1 of the 4 channels) that gives you a view into a narrow vertical band (for example, dial in a 5v offset so you you can look at a 4.95v to 5.05v band without distortions due to over-driving of the front end).
 

A precise offset would be nothing new. I've already demonstrated several times, how we can measure for instance 205V with better than 0.08% accuracy even with the entry level SDS1104X-E (8-bit).

The overload issues on the other hand, are inherent to the split path input buffer design, universally used in all higher bandwidth scopes. This won't change anytime soon, because it is the prerequisite for accurate and stable DC offsets.

[Performa01]

https://www.electronicdesign.com/technologies/test-measurement/article/21805339/whats-really-the-difference-between-a-12bit-and-8bit-oscilloscope

good article, although i was a little puzzled by this part:
"Most modern, mid-range oscilloscopes include a high-resolution mode, which increases the number of bits by filtering. In essence, bandwidth is traded off for the increased dynamic range. Basically you get one additional bit for each halving of the scope’s bandwidth. Therefore, to achieve a 4-bit increase, it would reduce the scope’s bandwidth by 16:1. So if you start with a 1-GHz scope, increasing the resolution to 12 bits with the high-resolution mode would reduce the scope’s bandwidth to below 100 MHz."

my understand was that for each ONE bit increase, it required 4x oversampling, leading to a bandwidth [addendum: i should probably be talking about 'sample rate' here, not 'bandwidth'] reduction of 256:1 to get the extra 4 bits. perhaps we are instead seeing 10-bit ADCs being used with a further 2 bits then obtained in software to give us the final 12 bits. i shall need to research this point some more - if the author is correct then i have a few (abandoned) projects i need to revisit!

The resolution enhancement goes along with the oversampling. For instance, four times oversampling results in four times more resolution = 2 bits of additional resolution and at the same time only one fourth of the bandwidth.

Best example for this is the Siglent SDS2000X Plus in 10-bit mode. It utilizes four times oversampling for two additional bits of resolution and at the same time the bandwidth drops to about 100 MHz, because with all four channels in use, the sample rate is limited to 1 GSa/s per channel, therefore Nyquist is at 500 MHz and one fourth of that is 125 MHz.

The confusing part might be that the noise reduction is only 3 dB per doubling of the sample frequency. So it is only 6 dB for four times oversampling, thus resulting in an ENOB enhancement of only one bit.

Long story short: we have to distinguish resolution and ENOB – and this is why physical 12-bit ADCs are the superior solution compared to HiRes/ERES oversampling approaches, even when we ignore the bandwidth reduction caused by oversampling.

[nctnico]

Remember: In the end you can't turn an 8 bit ADC into a 12 bit ADC just by oversampling. Getting extra bits relies on linearity and having enough & good noise to work with. Neither is guaranteed (and more likely not there in practical situation).

Also keep in mind that an oscilloscope is not a precission instrument. A 12 bit ADC gives extra resolution to look at small wiggles in a signal (which typically get removed by hires / eres BTW) but it doesn't give extra accuracy.

[electr_peter]

SDS1000X HD would be very welcome seeing positive feedback on SDS2000X HD. According to datasheets, SDS1000X HD is the same as SDS2000X HD with lower parts count but with almost all capabilities of bigger brother (missing zone trigger, lower sample rate).
SDS2000X HD firmware currently is better developed than Rigol DHO(HDO)1000/4000, likely SDS1000X HD will be similar. Main attraction is 12 bit ADC in nice form factor and many features. If price is expected to be in 800-1000 USD range or even lower, this will be a no brainer.

[Martin72]

Yepp, and if this price will come true, I wonder what else is "slimfasted" in comparison to the 2kHD...
One instead two ADCs, ok.
No inbuild awg, ok.
But same solid case, screen, maybe the same good encoders.
Where else could they have done to make it (if the price will come) appx 2500 bucks cheaper.
But that´s only guessing, time will tell and the first launched one in the hands of a teardowner...

[switchabl]

The datasheet lists SFDR ≥35 dB (same as 1000X-E) which would be subpar for a 12-bit instrument. But we will need to wait for proper tests to see what that means in practice.

[Martin72]

Other models:
5000X >32dB
2000X+ >40dB
2000X HD >45dB
6000A >45dB

[Neutrion]

Is it possible to run these 12bit scopes in an 8bit mode but with higher sample rate, and more pages in the memory?

[rf-loop]

Is it possible to run these 12bit scopes in an 8bit mode but with higher sample rate, and more pages in the memory?

No.

[Martin72]

Any guesses on cost ?

My guess is, the 1104X HD will cost appx the same as the 2104X+....
Because the prices in China for the 2000 X HD model are almost identical to the prices here without VAT.
So I assume it won't be any different with the 1000X HD.
If you can remember, with the 2000X HD, we also thought the prices would be lower at first, but they stayed the same.

[tautech]

Any guesses on cost ?

My guess is, the 1104X HD will cost appx the same as the 2104X+....

We'll see, my pick is SDS2102X Plus cost but no more.

Because the prices in China for the 2000 X HD model are almost identical to the prices here without VAT.

IIRC early in the 2kX HD thread rf-loop stated it was priced too cheap in his opinion due to the cost of the ADC's.

So I assume it won't be any different with the 1000X HD.
If you can remember, with the 2000X HD, we also thought the prices would be lower at first, but they stayed the same.

Yet it's been trimmed down to use existing external HW which will reduce BOM and cost.

But, we will see. 
 

[Martin72]

We'll see, my pick is SDS2102X Plus cost but no more.

Deal! 

Let´s see and remember these posts..
On the chinese website, datasheet and quick start guide are avaible for download, with pics from the backside.
Only difference to the 2000 are the missing wavegen output and the fan seems to be another.
And 4 mathtraces....boy thats killing me. 

[tautech]

We'll see, my pick is SDS2102X Plus cost but no more.

Deal! 

Let´s see and remember these posts..
On the chinese website, datasheet and quick start guide are avaible for download, with pics from the backside.
Only difference to the 2000 are the missing wavegen output and the fan seems to be another.
And 4 mathtraces....boy thats killing me. 

There is every chance the 4 Math channels in this HD is new SW development that will later be rolled out into older models. To the observant there are constant little changes in many models.
But of course development costs have been reduced by using the 2kX HD enclosure just as they used the 2000X rear case for SDS2kX Plus.
I can see a target price set to continue to attract buyers by the # of savings from using another existing case and external option HW in the development of this DSO.

[Martin72]

I am curious whether it should come so.
Actually, it was said that only 2 go for performance reasons - even the lecroy wavesurfer 4000HD produced by siglent also has only 2 channels.
Not that one decided now because of the competition, we make but 4 channels possible.

As for the 12bit, with the 1000 and 2000:
Another speculation of mine, this is an ADC from the shelf of lecroy.
They had once brought a Waverunner 6Zi on the market, with 12bit resolution and, unusual for Waverunner, a maximum sample rate of "only" 2GSa/s...

[ojete]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

[2N3055]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

What exactly is the question?

[TopQuark]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

I also own the SDS2000X HD and the SDS2000X Plus, and I read Chinese natively 

TLDR is everything different has been pointed out already in the thread.

The exterior seems identical, besides the 1000 HD not having the AWG at the back, and uses a different connector for the digital probes.

Software wise everything looks very similar as well, the most obvious difference is the 1000 HD has 4 math channels, while the 2000 HD inexplicably only has 2 

but tbh if the 1000 HD and the 2000X Plus are priced similarly, I'd go for the 2000X Plus without thinking.

Unless you are doing math with the traces all the time, or have to see the tiniest wiggle in the traces, 12-bit doesn't add that much tbh. The application that would benefit most from the two scenarios I mentioned is probably power electronics.

The noise performance of the 2000X Plus is plenty good, and 350/500MHz BW is more useful than 12 bit at 100/200MHz for "general use" IMO.

[2N3055]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

I also own the SDS2000X HD and the SDS2000X Plus, and I read Chinese natively 

TLDR is everything different has been pointed out already in the thread.

The exterior seems identical, besides the 1000 HD not having the AWG at the back, and uses a different connector for the digital probes.

Software wise everything looks very similar as well, the most obvious difference is the 1000 HD has 4 math channels, while the 2000 HD inexplicably only has 2 

but tbh if the 1000 HD and the 2000X Plus are priced similarly, I'd go for the 2000X Plus without thinking.

Unless you are doing math with the traces all the time, or have to see the tiniest wiggle in the traces, 12-bit doesn't add that much tbh. The application that would benefit most from the two scenarios I mentioned is probably power electronics.

The noise performance of the 2000X Plus is plenty good, and 350/500MHz BW is more useful than 12 bit at 100/200MHz for "general use" IMO.

Good analysis. 

[Raccoonhead]

It looks like a decision between Rigol HDO1000 and Siglent SDS1000X HD. I've always liked Siglent better, but I'm an impatient person and Rigol is now available.

[ojete]

Martin72 you have the SDS2104X HD, after watching the quick guide of the SDS1000X can you say if everything is the same?

https://www.siglent.com/upload_file/document/SDS1000X%20HD_Quick%20Guide.pdf

I also own the SDS2000X HD and the SDS2000X Plus, and I read Chinese natively 

TLDR is everything different has been pointed out already in the thread.

The exterior seems identical, besides the 1000 HD not having the AWG at the back, and uses a different connector for the digital probes.

Software wise everything looks very similar as well, the most obvious difference is the 1000 HD has 4 math channels, while the 2000 HD inexplicably only has 2 

but tbh if the 1000 HD and the 2000X Plus are priced similarly, I'd go for the 2000X Plus without thinking.

Unless you are doing math with the traces all the time, or have to see the tiniest wiggle in the traces, 12-bit doesn't add that much tbh. The application that would benefit most from the two scenarios I mentioned is probably power electronics.

The noise performance of the 2000X Plus is plenty good, and 350/500MHz BW is more useful than 12 bit at 100/200MHz for "general use" IMO.

Thank you so much. With the question I meant the software part.
Does anybody knows if the scope is already for sale in China?

[TopQuark]

Does anybody knows if the scope is already for sale in China?

Doesn't seem so.

[tautech]

It looks like a decision between Rigol HDO1000 and Siglent SDS1000X HD. I've always liked Siglent better, but I'm an impatient person and Rigol is now available.

Welcome to the forum.

I do believe HD is available in China however we will need to wait a few more weeks. 

[Tankj]

AFAIK, no market sell on china right now .
But there's a promotion going on Siglent china website that seems 10% off the 1000X HD by signing up for the trial, till the end of June. The 2000X HD series is also carrying promotions at the same time.

By just comparing the datasheet, the difference between 1000X HD and 2000X HD are:
Sample rate:
1000XHD has total of 1G sampling rate capacity(1G for 1CH, 500M for 2CH, 250M for 4CH),
2000XHD has total of 4G sampling rate capacity(2G for 2CH, 1G for 4CH).

Memory depth：
1000XHD has 100Mpts interleaved or 100Mpts per channel (To be clarified) ,
2000XHD has 100Mpts per channel,

Waveform capture rate:
1000XHD is 400,000 wfm/s on Sequence mode,
2000XHD is 500,000 wfm/s on Sequence mode,

Peak detection:
1000XHD 4ns,
2000XHD 1ns,

Bandwidth flatness: slightly worse on 1000X HD,

AC coupling cutoff frequency:
1000XHD 2Hz,
2000XHD 5Hz,

SFDR:
1000XHD ≥ 35dB,
2000XHD ≥ 45dB,

Channel isolation:
1000XHD > 40dB,
2000XHD > 70dB,

Horizon DIV:
1000XHD 2ns,
2000XHD 500ps/1ns,

Time Base Accuracy:
1000XHD ± 25ppm
2000XHD ± 2ppm

Trigger:
2000XHD has more trigger options, plus touch screen area trigger，

Waveform histogram：
1000XHD no waveform histogram，

Math channel：
1000XHD has 4 Math channels!!!!
2000XHD has 2 Math channels,

Logic analyzer:
1000XHD external SBUS device, 16ch 1GSa/s, 10 Mpts/ch,
2000XHD internal option, 16ch 500MSa/s, 50 Mpts/ch,

Waveform generator：
1000XHD 25MHz external USB device，
2000XHD 25MHz internal option，

We can definitely tell that the 1000XHD are significantly down spec in many ways, but for hobby or even general development use, it's quite adequate.

It's happy to see that 1000XHD has the same 0.5%DC accuracy from 2000XHD, the standard Bode plot test(which is optional on 2000X+), also the 4 math channels!!

Personally, the only complaint I have is the 4-channel model still shares that 1G sampling capacity, which means only 250M for full channel use. But still very attractive considering its price. I have almost put the trigger on RIGOL DHO1000 last year, but has always been put off by its toy-like appearance and design. Thanks for siglent now I can take this 1000X HD instead

[tautech]

Tankj, reasonable summary but with errors, the most glaring of which is memory depth for which SDS1kX HD clearly states 100 Mpts/ch.
It might be wise to revisit your post with edits.

[Martin72]

Grrr.....

[Tankj]

Tankj, reasonable summary but with errors, the most glaring of which is memory depth for which SDS1kX HD clearly states 100 Mpts/ch.
It might be wise to revisit your post with edits.

Hi tautech,thanks for the correction, post has edit. I have already noticed that the SDS1000XHD summary mentioned the memory depth is 100 Mpts/ch.

however, when comparing the full datasheet, it states: 100Mpts (interleaving mode). Things get bit confusing here

According to the acquisition hardware config of SDS1000XHD (2 or 4 channels shares one ADC), this provides some clues that the SDS1000XHD may actually have shared 100M memory for all channels. Also, SIGLENT makes this kind of paperwork mistakes often .

Before actually using the machine, this can only be a reasonable guess. Let me know if you have any definite info on this, then I'll revise the post again.

[tautech]

Before actually using the machine, this can only be a reasonable guess. Let me know if you have any definite info on this, then I'll revise the post again.

4th line down on the Chinese website clearly states 100 Mpts/ch so despite what other info states I believe for now we should work with this. 
Hence the basic info on specs posted in the OP of which I will change if proven incorrect.

[Tankj]

The full data(chinese one) also clearly states 100Mpts in interleaving mode.

So far, Siglent gives conflicting information. We can't tell which is right, only think of these as two possibilities. 

[tautech]

The full data(chinese one) also clearly states 100Mpts in interleaving mode.

So far, Siglent gives conflicting information. We can't tell which is right, only think of these as two possibilities. 

(Attachment Link)

I'll attempt to get answers.

[Muttley Snickers]

Note: Excerpt from post.

Sample rate:
1000XHD has total of 1G sampling rate capacity(1G for 1CH, 500M for 2CH, 150M for 4CH),
2000XHD has total of 4G sampling rate capacity(2G for 2CH, 1G for 4CH).
(snip...)
Personally, the only complaint I have is the 4-channel model still shares that 1G sampling capacity, which means only 250M for full channel use.

I believe that 150M is a typo which only adds to the confusion.        
An excellent comparison nonetheless.   

[Tankj]

I believe that 150M is a typo which only adds to the confusion.        
An excellent comparison nonetheless.   

Hi Muttley Snickers, it's a typo, Thanks for correction. 

[TopQuark]

Listed on Taobao for the China market, pre-orders for now.

Priced quite competitively I think, Rigol DHO1074 is priced at 6779 RMB on Taobao.

Seems like the Rigol / Siglent 12-bit scope wars is in full swing 

[BillyO]

That looks like it will be around $1200 USD for the 1104.  Not bad at all.

[rf-loop]

By just comparing the datasheet, the difference between 1000X HD and 2000X HD are:
Sample rate:
1000XHD has total of 1G sampling rate capacity(1G for 1CH, 500M for 2CH, 250M for 4CH),
2000XHD has total of 4G sampling rate capacity(2G for 2CH, 1G for 4CH).

Memory depth：
1000XHD has 100Mpts interleaved or 100Mpts per channel (To be clarified) ,
2000XHD has 100Mpts per channel,

SDS1000XHD memory (Siglent published bit confusing information) will be specified / clarified later.


These need some clarifications (SDS2000X HD).


My opinion is that for avoid confusion it is not suitable to tell 4G sampling rate capacity (sum of sampling rates) because it can not use in any circumstances 4G sampling rate for signal under test. (there is not all ADC interleaving for get 4G. (There is two Ti ADC12D1000  what is single channel 2GSa (interleaved) or dual channel 1GSa (non interleaved), there is not 4G interleaving for single channel use). Also clarification for SDS2000X HD memory length.   So it is perhaps better to tell dual 2GSa/s  in 4 channel models.

Construction is:
Input group 1: CH1 and CH2 share one 2GSa/s ADC and one 200Mpts memory.
Input group 2: CH3 and CH4 share one 2GSa/s ADC and one 200Mpts memory.
Note: ADC run always using these full non interleaved or interleaved sampling speed independent of possible decimation what happen between ADC and acquisition memory.

If only one CH is in use, ADC sampling speed is 2GSa and memory max 200Mpts

If total two CH is use, 1 from Group 1 AND 1 from Group 2, then both channels get ADC samplerate 2GSa/s and max 200Mpts
Examples
CH1 + CH3  both channels 2GSa/s and both channels max 200Mpts
CH2 + CH3  both channels 2GSa/s and both channels max 200Mpts
CH1 + CH4  both channels 2GSa/s and both channels max 200Mpts
CH2 + CH4  both channels 2GSa/s and both channels max 200Mpts

If total two CH is use, both from Group 1 or both from Group 2, then both channels get ADC samplerate 1GSa/s and max 100Mpts
Examples
CH1+CH2  both channels 1GSa/s and both channels max 100Mpts
CH3+CH4  both channels 1GSa/s and both channels max 100Mpts

If more than 2 channels are in use in all possible combinations all channels get ADC samplerate 1GSa/s and every channel max 100Mpts

Note: these told sampling speed values are ADC speeds.
When decimation is used, of course, decimated speed depends memory selection and time axis scale but in background ADC itself run always of course full interleaved or non interleaved speed. Digital trigger engine listen always this data stream out from ADC before possible decimation.

ETA: some clarifications and typo corrections

[tautech]

Following on from the great -3dB BW points in SDS2000X Plus this preproduction 200 MHz SDS1204X HD offers a similar BW headroom of some 280 MHz. 
100 MHz Ref waveform displayed @ 1V p-p
Source = SSG3021X

[tautech]

Grrr.....

Patience grasshopper....4 math traces for 2kX HD is coming. 

[hofcake]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong). I suspect they will be using a similar scheme for software upgrades for that device. I would love to see it cracked though! Would be nice to have a more affordable mixed signal 12 bit scope on the market.

[tautech]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

[sly2538]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

thanks, but where to find info about this hack ?

[tautech]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

thanks, but where to find info about this hack ?

Start reading here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-hd-12bit-(published-for-chinese-domestic-market-only)/msg4241161/#msg4241161
Little has changed that I'm aware of.

[sly2538]

thanks !

[hofcake]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

Well there go my excuses to *not* buy one...

[tautech]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

Well there go my excuses to *not* buy one...

Well mine has temporary options but that will change once I get a chance to sort them. 

[hofcake]

Looks great. All depends on the price however. And hackability of course 

But with more than two channels active it is actually worse than the SDS1000X-E ??

Unfortunately the SDS2000X HD still remains uncracked (someone correct me if I am wrong).

Welcome to the forum.

Please stand corrected. 
A deep hunt into the SDS2000X HD thread will provide some answers.

Well there go my excuses to *not* buy one...

Well mine has temporary options but that will change once I get a chance to sort them. 

Thoughts on the display? Work spoiled us with MDO34s so I am used to working on a 1080p display. The resolution on these Siglents just seems a little bit on the low side.

[tautech]

Thoughts on the display? Work spoiled us with MDO34s so I am used to working on a 1080p display. The resolution on these Siglents just seems a little bit on the low side.

No noticeable difference between SDS1000X HD and SDS2000X Plus, SDS2000X HD and SDS5000X that we've had the opportunity to become familiar with over the years. < all 10" touch and mouse capable displays.
However my aging eyes now like working with ch4, the green trace in preference to all others.

As these are 12 bit DSO's I can honestly state the traces are crisp and sharp as a tack !

These units are still in pre-release development so there could conceivably be improvements but at this time it would not be proper to say what/if there will be changes. NDA etc. 


I did have a play with the webserver last evening which performed flawlessly for what I did with it. 
Autodetect DNS to find a valid IP took just a wink of the eye.

[BillyO]

Well mine has temporary options but that will change once I get a chance to sort them. 

Have you tried the current python script to produce license keys yet?

Not that that would carry over into production, but ..

[tautech]

Well mine has temporary options but that will change once I get a chance to sort them. 

Have you tried the current python script to produce license keys yet?

Yes. 

And with some time to spend with it today it was time to check step response with the 10 MHz Bodnar fast pulser and this one is rated at just 30ps ! 
Albeit this unit is the 200 MHz model and the 100 MHz model will be slower but a ~1.3ns risetime is not too bad. 

2 screenshots this time, one in Dot mode, the other Vectors mode.

[tautech]

A member asked about ink saving inverted screenshots in some thread, so an example attached.

[MathWizard]

So I have a hacked SDS1204X-E, and overall I love it. And for an upgrade I'd be looking at the SDS2104Xplus w/hack to 350MHz iirc. Maybe this summer, or next year, but there's no rush, it's just a luxury. But the way prices are going, maybe the sooner the better.

The SDS2104X HD is way too expensive for my hobby use. So how will these SDS1000X HD compare to the 2104Xplus ? Will they have the FFT mode ?

[ojete]

Can you connect a usb wifi adapter like the tp link of the SDS1104X-E to get wifi or is it just wired lan?

[2N3055]

So I have a hacked SDS1204X-E, and overall I love it. And for an upgrade I'd be looking at the SDS2104Xplus w/hack to 350MHz iirc. Maybe this summer, or next year, but there's no rush, it's just a luxury. But the way prices are going, maybe the sooner the better.

The SDS2104X HD is way too expensive for my hobby use. So how will these SDS1000X HD compare to the 2104Xplus ? Will they have the FFT mode ?

There is a datasheet somewhere here...

In short, it will have same FFT as 2000X HD.
Also same 4 math ch,... So 4x2Mpts FFT at the same time.

It will have power analysis package too. Also front end voltage offset ranges from SDSD2000X HD that are better than most scopes out there regardless of the price...

In general biggest difference is  only one shared 1GS/s ADC and single shared 100MPts memory for all channels and digital channels and AWG are external.

Compared to SDS2000X Plus ?  If you are working a lot on pure analog stuff at low frequencies (power supplies for instance) SDS1000X HD is going to do better. For mixed signal and stuff that need higher BW and longer memory SDS2000X Plus will be better..
Tool for the job.

Truth is, if final released price will be good, you could have both  ... 

[2N3055]

Can you connect a usb wifi adapter like the tp link of the SDS1104X-E to get wifi or is it just wired lan?

Wired... No official WiFi...

But with 500uV/div sensitivity and low noise front end would you really want  to add WiFi ??
In my lab, there is no WiFi in a room, and phones are taken out when I measure something seriously...

It might be convenient (and sometimes not a problem), but is not best option for high sensitivity measuring device.

[tautech]

Can you connect a usb wifi adapter like the tp link of the SDS1104X-E to get wifi or is it just wired lan?

Wired... No official WiFi...

But with 500uV/div sensitivity and low noise front end would you really want  to add WiFi ??
In my lab, there is no WiFi in a room, and phones are taken out when I measure something seriously...

It might be convenient (and sometimes not a problem), but is not best option for high sensitivity measuring device.

Yet we have no reports of any excessive noise when using WiFi and the 4ch SDS1000X-E......a 200 MHz design has to do darn well to display 2.4 GHz signals.....

[2N3055]

Can you connect a usb wifi adapter like the tp link of the SDS1104X-E to get wifi or is it just wired lan?

Wired... No official WiFi...

But with 500uV/div sensitivity and low noise front end would you really want  to add WiFi ??
In my lab, there is no WiFi in a room, and phones are taken out when I measure something seriously...

It might be convenient (and sometimes not a problem), but is not best option for high sensitivity measuring device.

Yet we have no reports of any excessive noise when using WiFi and the 4ch SDS1000X-E......a 200 MHz design has to do darn well to display 2.4 GHz signals.....

It won't display 2.4GHz signal but demodulation artifacts... Similar to chirping you hear in computer speakers close to the phone...

[dophuc]

Sorry but I'm curious what measurements make you worried about interference by wifi ?

[2N3055]

Sorry but I'm curious what measurements make you worried about interference by wifi ?

Depends. Most of the time it's not important. But sometimes you are measuring something low level. Or fighting some EMC problem...
Or simply verifying how instrument performs.. You might have seen discussions here about spurs and noise floor levels on scopes and SA for instance....

[Martin72]

In short, it will have same FFT as 2000X HD.
Also same 4 math ch,... So 4x2Mpts FFT at the same time.

Hmm....
As one of the "first" who wanted to have four channels, I should be lucky they will come(and I am.. )
But I remember that it was not yet an issue with the 2000X plus, for performance reasons.
That is why the Siglent/lecroy models up to the wavesurfer 4000HD do not have four math channels.
Now it should be possible...
The HD goes with 2 FFT simultaneously already noticeably down in speed - And then four.....I'm curious whether the developers could still optimize something, so that the performance does not completely collapse in such a case.

[tautech]

The HD goes with 2 FFT simultaneously already noticeably down in speed - And then four.....I'm curious whether the developers could still optimize something, so that the performance does not completely collapse in such a case.

Yes it can need some horsepower.....although you/we are in control so if results are slow coming it is easy to make adjustments to FFT depth and/or main memory depth.
The trade off is fast or precise results just like we can do with Bode Plot. (# points)

The designers/engineers give us the tools but then it is up to us how to best use them. 

[rf-loop]

The HD goes with 2 FFT simultaneously already noticeably down in speed - And then four.....I'm curious whether the developers could still optimize something, so that the performance does not completely collapse in such a case.

Here is one example (SDS1000X HD).
3.665MHz carrier. Modulated with 1kHz and modualtion depth 2% (sidebands -40dBc)
All 4 FFT simultaneously with same settings. Input only to CH1 (F1)
4 FFT's all have 2Mpts  (Δf 3.97Hz)  And as can see "RBW" is 14.82  (flattop window in use)  (time domain t/div is 50ms/div)
(note that time domain decimated samplerate is 50MSa/s  and FFT samplerate 8.33MSa/s  (1:6)

Yes, processing takes time...just for example, this FFT window update period is 6.8s but time domanin acquisition / trigger in this case around 1s.
Slow for one is fast for some other. Also there is not free lounges.



But then, lets keep some just for fun..

Now there is full span 0- 4.167MHz. I will try with SA... there is not available just same RBW but with 30Hz RBW  127s and with 10Hz RBW  394s.
So what is slow and what is fast..

But naturally if set SA (SSA3021X)  for 10kHz span and 10Hz RBW it is faster. Around 1s. Naturally due to its working principle. (in this case its FFT "sweep" handle 4pcs 3kHz slices, 262.348ms each one))

[Martin72]

Yes it can need some horsepower.....although you/we are in control so if results are slow coming it is easy to make adjustments to FFT depth and/or main memory depth.
The trade off is fast or precise results just like we can do with Bode Plot. (# points)

The designers/engineers give us the tools but then it is up to us how to best use them. 

And if that's not enough, we'll buy another scope from someone who can.

[MathWizard]

Well I eagerly await these to release. Although I do want a scope with higher than 200MHz BW, and a bigger screen, most things I'm doing are much slower.

But IDK tho, it might not be enough of an upgrade over my sds1204x-e

[tautech]

Well I eagerly await these to release. Although I do want a scope with higher than 200MHz BW, and a bigger screen, most things I'm doing are much slower.

But IDK tho, it might not be enough of an upgrade over my sds1204x-e

Trust me it is although loss of WiFi connectivity might be a deal breaker for some.

However cost will determine if the upgrade is worth it but just being able to work directly with a mouse is very useful even if you don't use the touch screen.
The UI is somewhat different to X-E however the basic structure of menus is quite similar as it should be.

[tautech]

Quick size comparison between SDS1000X HD and SDS1104X-E that nicely fits atop of it.
Big daddy SDS6204A watching in the background. 

[BillyO]

Titillating!

[MathWizard]

Can it still run a USB cable or network cable to a PC ? Does it still has the webrowser interface?

The mouse option sounds nice, thats on the SDS2000xplus also. When are the offical spec's expected? I have the datasheet for the SDS1204X-E. If I was to get the SDS1000HD, I'd probably sell the 1204, then down the road get a higher BW SDS2104Xplus/ I seem to remember it having more options or something over the MSO5000.

[tautech]

Can it still run a USB cable or network cable to a PC ? Does it still has the webrowser interface?

1kX HD webrowser via LAN connection works just fine in my simple checks of it thus far.... *IDN? pokes and simple instrument control and the like.
Thanks for your reminder to check USB connectivity with EasyScopeX for example.

[Martin72]

If I was to get the SDS1000HD, I'd probably sell the 1204, then down the road get a higher BW SDS2104Xplus/ I seem to remember it having more options or something over the MSO5000.

Indeed, a combination of SDS1000HD and SDS2104Xplus fully unlocked would be the optimum.
Comparing the MSO5000 against the 2000X+, the rigol lost in several ways.
Not in the features, but in summary, in noise, in bandwith, display size and quality, bode quality, UI, etc..
Actually there is a real hype about the 12bit resolution.
You should ask yourself do I really need the 12bit, if not, you can save money and buy "only" the SDS2104X+.

[cowboy]

when will I be able to buy SDS1102X HD in USA? (and hopefully for the equivalent of 6102 Chinese yuan)

[tautech]

when will I be able to buy SDS1102X HD in USA? (and hopefully for the equivalent of 6102 Chinese yuan)

Projections are in a month or 2 however how long it will be until any of us get them in stock is another matter.

[rf-loop]

Just about freq bw when one channel is on. (SDS1204X HD)

[MathWizard]

So the 200MHz 8-bit sds1204X-E has max 1GSa/s per 2ch pair, and only 14Mpts/ch mem depth. Versus what I read here the 1204XHD is 12bit, same Sa/s, 100Mpts/ch, and both have about the same max wfm/s

And the HD will do math on all 4 channels, and have the bigger screens like the newer 2000 series.

What else will be better ? I assume the FFT will be better.  Will anything be worse or missing ? Will it have the same basic trigger options and serial decoding ?

I really hope some one does a side by side comparison of these to the sds2000Xplus. I wish they all had higher sampling rate, but I guess that's out of my price range, like the 2000HD's

[tautech]

So the 200MHz 8-bit sds1204X-E has max 1GSa/s per 2ch pair, and only 14Mpts/ch mem depth. Versus what I read here the 1204XHD is 12bit, same Sa/s, 100Mpts/ch, and both have about the same max wfm/s

And the HD will do math on all 4 channels, and have the bigger screens like the newer 2000 series.

What else will be better ?

Than the great little X-E ? Much !

I assume the FFT will be better.

 
2 Mpts

Will anything be worse or missing ?

No WiFi.
No NTP server capability as HD has a RTC like X Plus and 2000X HD.
No Logging capability as was later added to X-E.

Will it have the same basic trigger options and serial decoding ?

Yes and all with the later scope UI used in X Plus and all higher models which are touch and mouse capable.

I really hope some one does a side by side comparison of these to the sds2000Xplus.

Defpom will likely get a look at this one and get to compare it against his SDS2000X Plus however not before official release.

Currently we're busy evaluating FW and making suggestions for the release version. 

A couple of screenshots to ponder on.

[MathWizard]

These are sounding very nice, chances are I'll get, even if I keep my X-E, I guess no one's making 8ch models any time soon. I don't really need over the ~250MHz people say these and the X-E are good for, any time soon. Hopefully it will cost less than the sds2104Xplus.

But I'd get the slower version, in the hopes of a hack down the road.

[tautech]

These are sounding very nice, chances are I'll get, even if I keep my X-E, I guess no one's making 8ch models any time soon. I don't really need over the ~250MHz people say these and the X-E are good for, any time soon. Hopefully it will cost less than the sds2104Xplus.

But I'd get the slower version, in the hopes of a hack down the road.

SDS6000L (500 MHz to 2 GHz) are available in 4 or 8 channel versions however you may not like their price.
Interest in their capabilities had us put one in our last order......

[egonotto]

Hello,

8 channel 2 GHz and 500 MHz models are more than twice as expensive as 4 channel models. At 1 GHz 4 channel there is probably a wrong price.

Best regards
egonotto

[loop55]

I bought it on JD.com and it arrived

[loop55]

I bought SDS1074X HD. Does anyone know the method to upgrade the 200MHz bandwidth?

[Martin72]

You are probably the first here, so there are no experiences with the 1kHD so far.
But I guess it could/would be the same as the 2kHD
 

[ojete]

It seems not so similar...

[BillyO]

I bought it on JD.com and it arrived

Did it come with probes and a power cord.  They seem to be extras on jd.com.

The SDS1074X HD would be about $1280 CDN ($953 USD). Not bad at all.  I wonder if that price will be coming here too.

[mawyatt]

Find it amazing that Siglent can offer at this price point, same for low end Rigol HD, altho the Rigol hardware seems good but firmware is lacking.

Sure Siglent's leveraged off the enormous DSO IP investment over the years which kept the direct hardware and firmware original development costs very low, but the recurring BOM component, assembly, and test costs must also be kept very low.

Suspect that Siglent is getting a fallout version of the core 12 bit ADC (lower chip cost), and looks like they've simplified the PCB and Power Supply circuitry. Likely a lower end slower FPGA also, but seems to be using same quality touch screen.

Anyway, hopefully the intro firmware will be more polished than the Rigol, and frequent updates, maybe as good as the SDS2000X+ which we've all been impressed with!! 

So hats off for offering such an interesting version of the higher end HD model at this price point

Best, 

[Martin72]

+1, totally agree to your post.

and looks like they've simplified the PCB and Power Supply circuitry

Fan control is  also missing, but everything else like this were really surprising.

frequent updates, maybe as good as the SDS2000X+

I don´t think so, but it´s not negative meant.

[loop55]

SDS1074X HD I bought it for 5629 RMB ($791), including four oscilloscope probes (70MHz), a power cord, a USB cable, and manuals, etc.

[loop55]

Here is the power supply and fan

[rf-loop]

SDS1074X HD I bought it for 5629 RMB ($791), including four oscilloscope probes (70MHz), a power cord, a USB cable, and manuals, etc.

Yes these JD's  4ch 70MHz version offers looks nice...

But also JD's  4ch 200MHz  version offer is not bad at all... ("618 offer") 9280 RMB

But it must remember that these are consumer prices in China!

If I live now in my second home... perhaps I klick some 1kXHD version order button.....

[pope]

Here is the power supply and fan

"Teledyne Lecroy" 

[tautech]

SDS1074X HD I bought it for 5629 RMB ($791), including four oscilloscope probes (70MHz), a power cord, a USB cable, and manuals, etc.

FYI
Going by a pre-release datasheet we have, 70 MHz models will not be available to the west and from recent past experience, also a prohibited export for China resellers.
1. They will get in big trouble with Siglent if caught exporting.
2. Warranty for 70 MHz models may not be available to the west.

Purchase with caution.....

[Martin72]

Here is the power supply and fan

"Teledyne Lecroy" 

Only the sync. board 😎

[BillyO]

Purchase with caution.....

Personally I would not purchase grey market, however I'm interested in seeing pricing like that make it to this market.

[MathWizard]

SDS1074X HD I bought it for 5629 RMB ($791), including four oscilloscope probes (70MHz), a power cord, a USB cable, and manuals, etc.

FYI
Going by a pre-release datasheet we have, 70 MHz models will not be available to the west and from recent past experience, also a prohibited export for China resellers.
1. They will get in big trouble with Siglent if caught exporting.
2. Warranty for 70 MHz models may not be available to the west.

Purchase with caution.....

So what are the reasons that go into not selling a certain product in other region's? Easier to sell less models? Less red tape ? Or something money related to exports or competition rules??

I guess they all have the same hardware tho.

If these 1000XHD scopes are a fair bit cheaper than the 2104Xplus, it will be hard to resist getting 1. I look forward to some reviews soon.

[Performa01]

So what are the reasons that go into not selling a certain product in other region's? Easier to sell less models? Less red tape ? Or something money related to exports or competition rules??

Different marketing strategies for different countries. Expectations and requirements can be different.
Example: Siglent decided that a scope with less than 100 MHz bandwidth will not be accepted hence cannot be a commercial success in the western world.

Agreements with western partners. If a Chinese company gets support in certain key technologies from a western brand, there can be restrictions for selling these outside China.
Example: Siglent is not allowed to sell the SDS3000X outside China, because this is sold by LeCroy as Wavesurfer 3000Z throughout the rest of the world.

I guess they all have the same hardware tho.

Mostly so, but not always. There can be HW-differences between China and the rest of the world, as well as HW-differences within a product line.

Example 1: SDS6000A (international) has different HW than SDS6000 H10/12 Pro (China).
Example 2: SDS5034X (350 MHz) has different HW than SDS5054X (500 MHz).

[teddychn]

I find the trigger jitter was specified 100ps. At the beginning, I assume it's a typo. But comparing the 2000X's 10ps-rms, they might specified in different ways. Doesn't know if they are on the similar level.

[2N3055]

I find the trigger jitter was specified 100ps. At the beginning, I assume it's a typo. But comparing the 2000X's 10ps-rms, they might specified in different ways. Doesn't know if they are on the similar level.

Trigger point is interpolated.. It's resolution will be influenced by vertical resolution (vertical part of the slope), sample rate (horizontal part of the slope), interpolated timing resolution (internal math representation) that will be dependent on timebase available....
It's fastest timebase is 2ns/div (opposed to 2000X+ 500ps/div) and worst sample rate is 250MS/s... So factor 10x doesn't seem unrealistic...

But... on my SDS2000X HD I get trigger jitter in hystogram to be about 220 fs RMS (yes , femtoseconds !!).... That is best case scenario, super fast edge, fastest timebase, single channel...
I can see that worst case could be 10ps RMS.
BY same token I presume whatever the spec for SDS1000X HD is going to be very conservative worst case spec... and could be 100ps...

Which by the way is spectacular anyways if you think about it.......

[nimish]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805212875769.html

~$1500-2000 for 200MHz

[BillyO]

https://www.aliexpress.us/item/3256805212875769.html

~$1500-2000 for 200MHz

Hmmmm...  A bit higher than I was hoping for.  But still not available at my local guy.  Will reserve judgement until then.

[MathWizard]

For me today, that link says it's 65% off from $6441CAD, to $2254 =~1575USD.

I really hope that aren't +$2000, the SDS2104Xplus is ~1900CAD+tax

[2N3055]

For me today, that link says it's 65% off from $6441CAD, to $2254 =~1575USD.

I really hope that aren't +$2000, the SDS2104Xplus is ~1900CAD+tax

Word of advice, don't buy a scope that is not released to your market yet..
And buy locally and get propper after sales support.
Just my 2c...

[tautech]

For me today, that link says it's 65% off from $6441CAD, to $2254 =~1575USD.

I really hope that aren't +$2000, the SDS2104X Plus is ~1900CAD+tax

For which, a free BW upgrade to SDS2204X Plus is available until end of October.
We already know SDS2104X Plus -3dB point is some 185 MHz therefore the free BW upgrade will push that a good bit higher.
A 1200USD saving !

[Martin72]

Hmmmm...  A bit higher than I was hoping for.  But still not available at my local guy.  Will reserve judgement until then.

My bet still stands...

[BillyO]

My bet still stands...

I think the pricing will different than the SDS2000X+ otherwise they will just be competing with themselves on two current models.  The question then becomes will it be higher or lower.  I'm hoping for lower.  For sure I don't want them to differentiate it by lowering the price of the SDS2000X+, even though I got mine on sale.

[Martin72]

I remember the situation before the 2000X HD was launched in the rest of the world.
Not less said the prices in china are higher, you won´t pay the same.
But they were wrong...
As the HD was offered by batronix I had two possibilities for the money.
Buying the HD or the 350Mhz SDS5000X(you still have the choice for the money).
Buying 12 bit or 8 bit.
Buying max 2GSa/s or 5GSa/s.
Buying 100Mhz or 350Mhz.
The rest is history...You guys know what I´ve done.
But:
If someone have to make a decision between 1000X HD and 2000xplus because they cost nearly the same, this would be hard...

[loop55]

The SDS1000XHD can be cracked to 200MHz,But I have no way to test the actual bandwidth.

[tautech]

The SDS1000XHD can be cracked to 200MHz,But I have no way to test the actual bandwidth.

Yes but that's not the full picture.
I've made mine a SDS1104X HD then back to SDS1204X HD.

Have you yet discovered how to generate option licenses ? 

[sebyon]

This is currently my predicament. Get the SDS2104X or wait and see the pricing for the SDS1000X HD once available in Australia 

[tautech]

This is currently my predicament. Get the SDS2104X or wait and see the pricing for the SDS1000X HD once available in Australia 

Welcome to the forum.

I have whispers you don't need to wait much longer.

However while HD is nice it is not a 500 MHz design and with the current X Plus promotion you get the 200 MHz model upgrade free which I have just tested as actually -3dB at 300 MHz.
Front panels are a little different and HD is a little more compact however the UI is near identical.

[tv84]

Have you yet discovered how to generate option licenses ? 

Sure he has. 

SDS1000X HD uses Siglent's public keygen (v1) so everyone can create their own licenses.

[Martin72]

This will push the scope, now only the price has to be right....

[MathWizard]

What's the news on these ? Are they fully available in China yet ?

[sebyon]

Probably speculation but wouldn't be surprised if a few months away at most now that you can start ordering the Rigol DHO800/900 series.

It's the only competition for the price/features that are equivalent.

[Martin72]

I asked Siglent Europe today when the 1000X HD will be released in Europe and how much it will cost.
The answer was:
Sometime between September 2023 and February 2024 and pricing is not yet known.
That was to be expected...

[Performa01]

I asked Siglent Europe today when the 1000X HD will be released in Europe and how much it will cost.
The answer was:
Sometime between September 2023 and February 2024 and pricing is not yet known.

Now put one and one together. What might be the reason that it takes so long and there is not even an exact release date yet - even though the SDS1000X HD quite demonstrably exists in China for quite a while now?

[tv84]

Now put one and one together. What might be the reason that it takes so long and there is not even an exact release date yet - even though the SDS1000X HD quite demonstrably exists in China for quite a while now?

  Tough one...

[tautech]

Now put one and one together. What might be the reason that it takes so long and there is not even an exact release date yet - even though the SDS1000X HD quite demonstrably exists in China for quite a while now?

  Tough one...

Not really.
Good things are worth waiting for. 

[Martin72]

Now put one and one together.

Too complicated for me. 

[BillyO]

Given Rigol's agressive pricing of their DHO800/900 scopes are Siglent considering better pricing on this model?

With the DHO900 starting at $600 the Siglent will be keeping dust off the warehouse shelves if they are priced much higher.

[Martin72]

With 10" screen and 50 ohms inputs, also probably way better FFT, it's another class.

[tv84]

With 10" screen and 50 ohms inputs, also probably way better FFT, it's another class.

But what about boot time? 

[BillyO]

With 10" screen and 50 ohms inputs, also probably way better FFT, it's another class.

It is in another class, but it's currently looking like nearly twice the price.   That's a lot.

[2N3055]

Given Rigol's agressive pricing of their DHO800/900 scopes are Siglent considering better pricing on this model?

With the DHO900 starting at $600 the Siglent will be keeping dust off the warehouse shelves if they are priced much higher.

It is competing with DHO1000 series. Simple as that.
For instance, DHO800 apparently has only 1 MPoints of memory per channel  in full channel mode as per datasheet, unless it is an error. I'm waiting for someone to confirm that debacle..

[BillyO]

It is competing with DHO1000 series. Simple as that.

Yeah, I guess you're right.

For instance, DHO800 apparently has only 1 MPoints of memory per channel  in full channel mode as per datasheet, unless it is an error. I'm waiting for someone to confirm that debacle..

I think Dave mentioned it has a total of 25MPts.  He didn't expand on how that get's divided up.

[Martin72]

But what about boot time? 

 

[BillyO]

But what about boot time? 

Boot times, boot times
Gimme some of that!
 
Sung to the tune of "Good Times" by the gorgeous Edie Brickell 

[sebyon]

Considering this I wouldn't be surprised if looking at ~1000 USD for the SDS1024X HD, putting it right next to the DHO-1074.

The DHO900 is looking seriously tempting considering the price, but damn I hate black equipment...

[tautech]

With 10" screen and 50 ohms inputs, also probably way better FFT, it's another class.

But what about boot time? 

~30s of the splash screen and ready to use at ~50s.....in this pre release unit. Similar to X Plus.

[BillyO]

Yeah, my SDS2000X+ takes 59 seconds.  It's no big deal.  I usually turn everything on in the morning then go have my breakfast.

[2N3055]

Unless it is less than 5 seconds it's all the same..

[tv84]

I'm thinking about forking www.userbenchmark.com to rank scope boot times. What do you think?

I'm sure we'll have plenty of entries just in this forum. 

[KungFuJosh]

I'm sure we'll have plenty of entries just in this forum. 

I'm sure they'll all be honest too. My scope boots up in -5 seconds! I even think about pressing the power button, and it's on!

[skander36]

RTB2K boot in aprox 9 sec. but I still need to wait 10-15 min. to make a trusted measurement. I don't see an advantage having a so short boot time.  Indeed you have more time to stare at the UI.
Anyone know if SDS1000X HD share the same frontend chipset with the 2000X HD?

[tautech]

I'm thinking about forking www.userbenchmark.com to rank scope boot times. What do you think?

I'm sure we'll have plenty of entries just in this forum. 

Thread from some years back should you feel the need to revive it:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/te-boot-up-times/

[BillyO]

I'm thinking about forking www.userbenchmark.com to rank scope boot times. What do you think?

I'm sure we'll have plenty of entries just in this forum. 

DSO138 - 1.3 seconds! 

[tautech]

I'm thinking about forking www.userbenchmark.com to rank scope boot times. What do you think?

I'm sure we'll have plenty of entries just in this forum. 

DSO138 - 1.3 seconds! 

Then what can you actually do with it ? 

[Martin72]

RTB2K boot in aprox 9 sec. but I still need to wait 10-15 min. to make a trusted measurement. I don't see an advantage having a so short boot time.  Indeed you have more time to stare at the UI.

This is the point.

[BillyO]

Then what can you actually do with it ? 

Well, besides bragging about how fast it boots, it's perfectly fine for the average monkey-see, monkey-do Arduino "maker".  I taught a community evening course a few years back for a couple of years (until the lager lurgy) and I used the DSO138 as a part of the kit.  It was uber cheap back then, but now seems to be creeping up in price.  If I was to do the course again I'd probably spec the DSO154 @ 18MHz with built-in battery and real probe.

So why did I include such a tiny cheap scope?  Well I had to keep the kit price reasonable ($150) and it was sufficient.  If the kit was $600 I would have been alone in the classroom.  Everyone loved it!

[Doctorandus_P]

I'm guessing it's close to launch date now.

I am going to buy a new scope soon, and I noticed that the Siglent  SDS1104X-E now has a 10% discount, both at Eleshop, Welectron and Batronix. At first I thought it was because of the Rigol 12-bitter, but it's more likely it is to give those shops an opportunity to lower their stocks of the old Siglents before the new Siglents arrive.

[adam4521]

I think the 10% is just a seasonal promotion, not linked at all. Telonic have put a banner up to include a few other Siglent products.

[Performa01]

I'm guessing it's close to launch date now.

I am going to buy a new scope soon, and I noticed that the Siglent  SDS1104X-E now has a 10% discount, both at Eleshop, Welectron and Batronix. At first I thought it was because of the Rigol 12-bitter, but it's more likely it is to give those shops an opportunity to lower their stocks of the old Siglents before the new Siglents arrive.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no "New Siglents" competing in this price bracket right now.

Whenever the new low end 12 bit MSO from Siglent will be introduced internationally, it will not compete with the Rigol DHO800/900 series, but the DHO1000 (even though this is not a MSO). It will certainly be more powerful than the current SDS1000X HD available in China.

[rf-loop]

I'm guessing it's close to launch date now.

I am going to buy a new scope soon, and I noticed that the Siglent  SDS1104X-E now has a 10% discount, both at Eleshop, Welectron and Batronix. At first I thought it was because of the Rigol 12-bitter, but it's more likely it is to give those shops an opportunity to lower their stocks of the old Siglents before the new Siglents arrive.

To the best of my knowledge, there are no "New Siglents" competing in this price bracket right now.

Whenever the new low end 12 bit MSO from Siglent will be introduced internationally, it will not compete with the Rigol DHO800/900 series, but the DHO1000 (even though this is not a MSO). It will certainly be more powerful than the current SDS1000X HD available in China.

Nor do I dare or want to express it more directly than Mr Perfoma01 said it..
 

[exe]

RTB2K boot in aprox 9 sec. but I still need to wait 10-15 min. to make a trusted measurement.

How much does it drift?

[Martin72]

A little bit off-topic, but:
It depends on the ambient temperature, to be on the safe side I would follow the recommendation of the manual, the mentioned warm-up time before making a self-cal.

[exe]

I guess I can brag about my micsig which is ready to use right after boot . Sure there is some DC drift, but if I need to measure voltage, I use a DMM. Even cheapest DMM will do circles around even expensive oscilloscopes in terms of precision and input impedance (for passive probes).

So, I vote for faster boot times. It makes better user experience for me. People who don't need or don't care won't loose anything.

[tautech]

Spurred by this post from another thread:

I wish some scope one day implements a function to save screenshots/capture logs to a remote NAS folder directly, like most office-class MFU do for scanned documents - for example Canon MF644 that I recently bought. It can also save directly to a PC, but it requires some client software running on it, while NAS is supported natively. Incredibly useful feature!

A quick look this functionality is also available in these HD models coming, no surprise it also is.
Found in the Utility>Service menu.

[BillyO]

A quick look this functionality is also available in these HD models coming, no surprise it also is.
Found in the Utility>Service menu.

It's also available on the SDS2000XP series too.  Great feature.

[Martin72]

Taken from the rigol thread:

Rigol has left the door open, but I don't think Siglent plans to walk through it any time soon; they are taking a different route. There's just not enough margin for them in the entry-level scope class. And they can't price the 1000X HD too low, since that would cannibalize their 2000X HD sales too much.

I have no doubt that the 1000X HD will cost about the same as the 2000Xplus.
At least...
Just as you now have a choice between 2000X HD entry or SDS5000X entry, you will have a choice between 1000X HD and 2000X plus in terms of price.
As I said, just my opinion, but I was almost right about the price of the 2000X hd.
Now only two things have to happen:
The device is also offered on the western market and the prices are known.

[BillyO]

The device is also offered on the western market and the prices are known.

It's taking them a while.  I wonder why they are taking so long?

[tautech]

It's taking them a while.  I wonder why they are taking so long?

There have been changes since the original design.

Careful study of the OP hints of them. 

[Antonio90]

2gs/s? Isn't that directly competing against the 2000X HD?

So, it's going to be a 2000X HD alternative without MSO or AWG and slightly lower cost then?
It will probably be an excellent scope, but my guess is 1800€ starting price, out of general hobbyist range.

Edit: and lower bandwith front-end.

[tautech]

2gs/s? Isn't that directly competing against the 2000X HD?

No.
2000X HD is a 500 MHz design whereas 1000X HD is a 200 MHz design.
Study the datasheets. 

So, it's going to be a 2000X HD alternative without MSO or AWG and slightly lower cost then?

MSO and AWG will be external HW options of which this HW already exists for other models.
Not including this HW in the design will help reduce pricing.

[Martin72]

2gs/s? Isn't that directly competing against the 2000X HD?

Not really..
My guess is it will have one ADC for all channels because of the samplerate dropping to 500MSa/s when all channel are active.
Then the already mentioned max. bandwith of 200Mhz and the 100Mpts memory, dropping to 25Mpts when all channel are active.
And then there is the possibility that, the data sheet is silent about the fact, that average and eres are available as math functions like in the 2000Xplus and are not implemented on the hardware side like in the 2000X HD.
There are already a few differences present...

[Antonio90]

2gs/s? Isn't that directly competing against the 2000X HD?

No.
2000X HD is a 500 MHz design whereas 1000X HD is a 200 MHz design.
Study the datasheets. 

So, it's going to be a 2000X HD alternative without MSO or AWG and slightly lower cost then?

MSO and AWG will be external HW options of which this HW already exists for other models.
Not including this HW in the design will help reduce pricing.

Yeah, I spotted my mistake right after hitting "post". 200 VS 500MHz is a big difference.
Let's wait and see. I think leaving the LA and AWG as addons is a good move, and quite a few siglent users have external AWGs already for FRA.

[2N3055]

2gs/s? Isn't that directly competing against the 2000X HD?

So, it's going to be a 2000X HD alternative without MSO or AWG and slightly lower cost then?
It will probably be an excellent scope, but my guess is 1800€ starting price, out of general hobbyist range.

Edit: and lower bandwith front-end.

It takes time because unlike Rigol, Siglent tries to release fully developed products.
Like others said, there was hardware revision of previous SDS1000X HD, so now it is 2GS-1GS-500MS/s. It's 200 MHz BW will be full with all channels.
It is very similar to 2000X HD in general concept and phisical layout is identical, but has no Zone trigger, no built in AWG, and no built in MSO (it does have option to add external MSO sampling box).  It has Bode plot and Power analysis option.

It does not compare with  Rigol DHO900 but is comparable class with DHO1000 (actually much better than it, because DHO1000 has no additional measurements or analysis over DHO800).

For people who need advanced 12bit analytic scope up to 200MHz, don't need built in MSO, and have already standalone Siglent AWG DS1000X HD is going to be killer choice..

[Martin72]

don't need built in MSO

Sure my friend ?

Digital logic signal analysis: Enables mixed-signal acquisition and analysis

https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000x-hd/

(english translated)

[tautech]

don't need built in MSO

Sure my friend ?

Digital logic signal analysis: Enables mixed-signal acquisition and analysis

https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000x-hd/

(english translated)

An option we can add later IF needed.
https://siglentna.com/product/sla1016/

[Martin72]

An option we can add later IF needed.

Is it the same with the other siglent scopes or do I not understand something ?

[tautech]

An option we can add later IF needed.

Is it the same with the other siglent scopes or do I not understand something ?

For SDS1 and 2000X-E MSO the SLA1016 LA module is required. < SDS1000X HD uses this too.

For all other models, SPL2016 that has no active circuitry.
https://siglentna.com/product/spl2016-16-channel-logic-probe-for-mso-option-sds2000x-oscilloscope-family/

[Martin72]

Rob,
I had understood 2N3055 to mean that there is no MSO option for the 1000X HD, so the scope is not a MSO.
Therefore the link to the data sheet.

[tautech]

Rob,
I had understood 2N3055 to mean that there is no MSO option for the 1000X HD, so the scope is not a MSO.

This only means the MSO option is not fully inbuilt. MSO/LA capabilities works just fine with my SDS1204X HD and the SLA1016 LA module.
It connects to the Sbus port just the same as X-E models.


Later when other tasks are finished I'll post a MSO/LA screenshot.

[2N3055]

An option we can add later IF needed.

Is it the same with the other siglent scopes or do I not understand something ?

Martin,

it is same as with SDS1000X-E. It has S-bus connector for external MSO sampling box. So it has software support for MSO but needs additional hardware box, not only cables.

[Martin72]

Ah....Ahhh....
Thanks !!!

[tautech]

Rob,
I had understood 2N3055 to mean that there is no MSO option for the 1000X HD, so the scope is not a MSO.

This only means the MSO option is not fully inbuilt. MSO/LA capabilities works just fine with my SDS1204X HD and the SLA1016 LA module.
It connects to the Sbus port just the same as X-E models.


Later when other tasks are finished I'll post a MSO/LA screenshot.

Digital mode.
Pre-release scope HW and SW ! SW enhancements requested since last beta FW release.
Currently available SLA1016 LA module with latest FW.
Just half of the 16 channels available displayed. Each channel can be individually toggled ON or OFF or as a group of 8.

[Warhawk]

Thanks for explaining the external LA options. I thought that the external "box" can be easily built. This is, however, only the case for the simpler variant. The SLA1016 is quite complex and I think I don't need it for 400 eur.
And now comes the question if I need 2000x plus or 1000x HD 

[Performa01]

All those who attach great importance to the MSO capability should be aware that the SLA1016 is an external intelligent device which is somehow synced to the DSO, hence integration isn't great. I guess this old posting still applies (reply #1068):

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2007983/#msg2007983

If MSO is really important, consider the integrated solution (SPL2016) as in SDS2000X Plus/HD and higher.

[Warhawk]

All those who attach great importance to the MSO capability should be aware that the SLA1016 is an external intelligent device which is somehow synced to the DSO, hence integration isn't great. I guess this old posting still applies (reply #1068):

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2007983/#msg2007983

If MSO is really important, consider the integrated solution (SPL2016) as in SDS2000X Plus/HD and higher.

You've just helped me a lot. I really wonder how much I am missing out if I pass on 12b resolution. I need to play with some HDO lecroys we have at work.

[tv84]

All those who attach great importance to the MSO capability should be aware that the SLA1016 is an If MSO is really important, consider the integrated solution (SPL2016) as in SDS2000X Plus/HD and higher.

IIRC, SLA1016 included a Zynq processor inside. Did the SPL2016 discard that and all the processing is done inside the scope?

[tautech]

Did the SPL2016 discard that and all the processing is done inside the scope?

Entirely.
Fully passive LA probe and nicely we have a Pcie socket to plug straight into.

All details here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-analyzer-probe-and-pods-for-siglent-scopes/

[UK]

Is there anywhere a full list of units which has SPL2016 on board?

[tautech]

Is there anywhere a full list of units which has SPL2016 on board?

At the time of writing these DSO's accept the SPL2016 logic probe.
SDS2000X
SDS2000X Plus
SDS2000X HD
SDS5000X
SDS6000A

[ebastler]

Fully passive LA probe and nicely we have a Pcie socket to plug straight into.

Nice simple design with no clunky box on the bench, and quite decent performance. 
But if that's all there is to it -- why is the SPL2016 more expensive than the much more complex SPL1016?

[KungFuJosh]

Nice simple design with no clunky box on the bench, and quite decent performance. 
But if that's all there is to it -- why is the SPL2016 more expensive than the much more complex SPL1016?

It's shinier? There's a project on here to make your own for 1/10 the cost.

[tautech]

Fully passive LA probe and nicely we have a Pcie socket to plug straight into.

Nice simple design with no clunky box on the bench, and quite decent performance. 
But if that's all there is to it -- why is the SPL2016 more expensive than the much more complex SPL1016?

SLA1016 $329 + licensing
Siglent made LA module and probe set using cheap IDA ribbon cable and low quality grabbers.

SPL2016 $369 + licensing
Outsourced. Same design used by several other DSO manufacturers, Tek, LeCroy, maybe more.
Quality 10 way coax ribbon cable < 2x 8ch leads ~1m long. Were supplied with quality US made grabbers and latest are unbranded but good quality too.

IMHO SPL2016 is in entirely another class and occasionally on special in some bundle where SPL2016 and a # of options can be purchased as low as $219. (last years worldwide promo).......but the scope must have the LA HW internal to support it.

[Warhawk]

Here in Europe, the option is now included in the price as a par of the promotion. I may pull the trigger on sds2000x plus instead of the HD version. I am wonder if we should expect different promotions at time of the sds1000 hd release.

[ebastler]

SPL1016 $329 + licensing
Siglent made LA module and probe set using cheap IDA ribbon cable and low quality grabbers.

SPL2016 $369 + licensing
Outsourced. Same design used by several other DSO manufacturers, Tek, LeCroy, maybe more.
Quality 10 way coax ribbon cable < 2x 8ch leads ~1m long. Were supplied with quality US made grabbers and latest are unbranded but good quality too.

IMHO SPL2016 is in entirely another class and occasionally on special in some bundle where SPL2016 and a # of options can be purchased as low as $219. (last years worldwide promo).......but the scope must have the LA HW internal to support it.

Sorry, I meant the SLA1016 for comparison -- that's the complete external unit compatible with the current SDS1000... models, right? Costs 288€ over here, vs. 335€ for the SPL2016, both before tax.

Thanks for pointing out the quality differences in the grabbers, which I was not aware of. There's probably also an aspect of different market positioning, where accessories for more expensive scopes can get away with a somewhat higher price...

[tautech]

Here in Europe, the option is now included in the price as a par of the promotion. I may pull the trigger on sds2000x plus instead of the HD version.

Ah, so it is 
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/

Don't tell anyone but 2000X HD models have been reduced in cost and with the above bundle makes them quite attractive and probably the last DSO you might ever buy....yes they are that good.

I am wonder if we should expect different promotions at time of the sds1000 hd release.

1000X HD a more basic design with limited options vs 2000 series units.
FG/AWG is an external module with licensing. $159 + ? other models $109
LA/MSO is also external module with licensing. $ 329 + ? other models $109
Power analysis will be useful for some. $ ? other models starting at $269

Until we know base pricing more info is just a guess.
There could be introductory pricing but again a guess.

[tautech]

Sorry, I meant the SLA1016 for comparison -- that's the complete external unit compatible with the current SDS1000... models, right? Costs 288€ over here, vs. 335€ for the SPL2016, both before tax.

Thanks, corrected.

[Antonio90]

Everything looks the same as the OP photo, but lighter. Pricing can be all over the place in Aliexpress, and it is the 200MHz version.

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005005399190521.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2esp

Is this the chinese-only version? Or the actual one to be sold in the west?

EDIT: Didn't look closely enough. The label at the bottom left of the scope says 1GS/s.

[Martin72]

About 600€ more expensive than the 200Mhz DHO from Rigol...
And still the "old", I do not want to know what the black version will cost.
Always provided that the 1000er comes at all on the western market.

[Antonio90]

Aliexpress pricing for test equipment is often much higher than comparable european distributors (150% is not unusual) at least shipped to Spain.
But yeah, I don't know if there is an incentive to compete with Rigol in the DHO1000 segment. ¿Is there really a market around these prices?

What I find missing in the market is 600-800€ before tax 4-channel scopes. Although I guess that's where unhacked and optioned basic scopes live.

I was hoping this would be a cheaper alternative to the SDS2104X Plus with less features and 12bit, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

[UK]

Bad apple looks nice on it!

https://www.bilibili.com/video/BV1ih4y1A78Y/?t=51.3

[2N3055]

Aliexpress pricing for test equipment is often much higher than comparable european distributors (150% is not unusual) at least shipped to Spain.
But yeah, I don't know if there is an incentive to compete with Rigol in the DHO1000 segment. ¿Is there really a market around these prices?

What I find missing in the market is 600-800€ before tax 4-channel scopes. Although I guess that's where unhacked and optioned basic scopes live.

I was hoping this would be a cheaper alternative to the SDS2104X Plus with less features and 12bit, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

Of course there is market. And new SDS1000X HD is quite a more capable device than DHO1000.

[Antonio90]

I was just wondering, don't know how the professional market works in this regard at all.
It just seemed to me that general purpose is well served with an 8 bit scope, and the 2000X HD was more fitting in price and capabilities for specialised needs.
But I know I don't know.

[tautech]

Everything looks the same as the OP photo, but lighter. Pricing can be all over the place in Aliexpress, and it is the 200MHz version.

https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005005399190521.html?gatewayAdapt=glo2esp

Is this the chinese-only version? Or the actual one to be sold in the west?

It might be now but the color theme has changed.
See this thread and follow the link in OP:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds3000x-hd-and-upgraded-sds1000x-hd/

1000X HD cannot be priced near 2000X Plus as they are very different animals sporting quite different capabilities.

[ebastler]

1000X HD cannot be priced near 2000X Plus as they are very different animals sporting quite different capabilities.

Now you have piqued my curiosity. They are indeed different animals, but each with strengths and limitations over the other. So I would have guessed that they are in the same price bracket, with the 1000X HD probably priced a bit higher because 12 bit is the "shiny new thing". Not so?

[tautech]

1000X HD cannot be priced near 2000X Plus as they are very different animals sporting quite different capabilities.

Now you have piqued my curiosity. They are indeed different animals, but each with strengths and limitations over the other. So I would have guessed that they are in the same price bracket, with the 1000X HD probably priced a bit higher because 12 bit is the "shiny new thing". Not so?

X Plus is a 2 GSa/s 500 MHz design with internal FG and MSO/LA circuitry and already has 100 MHz capable 10 bit mode. 4x mem depth also. < 2 ADC's each with 200 MPts support.

1000X HD has been designed to reduce cost omitting internal FG and MSO/LA HW and sharing the 2000X HD enclosure.

[Antonio90]

1000X HD cannot be priced near 2000X Plus as they are very different animals sporting quite different capabilities.

Now you have piqued my curiosity. They are indeed different animals, but each with strengths and limitations over the other. So I would have guessed that they are in the same price bracket, with the 1000X HD probably priced a bit higher because 12 bit is the "shiny new thing". Not so?

X Plus is a 2 GSa/s 500 MHz design with internal FG and MSO/LA circuitry and already has 100 MHz capable 10 bit mode. 4x mem depth also. < 2 ADC's each with 200 MPts support.

1000X HD has been designed to reduce cost omitting internal FG and MSO/LA HW and sharing the 2000X HD enclosure.

The image I posted is close to 1k more than the 2000X plus. That is why I was kind of surprised.
I'm hoping the 1000X HD will be at least a bit cheaper than the 2000X Plus, which is what I infer from your post.

[tautech]

The image I posted is close to 1k more than the 2000X plus. That is why I was kind of surprised.
I'm hoping the 1000X HD will be at least a bit cheaper than the 2000X Plus, which is what I infer from your post.

Yeah well we always need double check any Aliexpress seller.
In 1 minute I searched what other Siglent products they sell and those I found are all at ripoff pricing compared to Siglent RRP.
https://www.aliexpress.com/store/506853/search?SearchText=Siglent

They're taking the piss ! 

[Martin72]

I'm hoping the 1000X HD will be at least a bit cheaper than the 2000X Plus, which is what I infer from your post.

Well...
I hope so, too, for everyone's sake.
But I lack the faith in it.
However, I have to say clearly that the price of a 2104Xplus can already be called cheap, considering what you get for it.
Even cheaper and then with 12 bit and 4 math channels, digital filters...hard to believe.
But I'll be very happy to be proven wrong when the time comes.

[Antonio90]

I'm hoping the 1000X HD will be at least a bit cheaper than the 2000X Plus, which is what I infer from your post.

Well...
I hope so, too, for everyone's sake.
But I lack the faith in it.
However, I have to say clearly that the price of a 2104Xplus can already be called cheap, considering what you get for it.
Even cheaper and then with 12 bit and 4 math channels, digital filters...hard to believe.
But I'll be very happy to be proven wrong when the time comes.

Yes, it is has great quality/price ratio. It might be cheap, just generally out of hobby price bracket. Does it have 4 math channels too?

[Martin72]

Hi,

Does it have 4 math channels too?

Not yet, but there is a hope because the "smaller" 1000X HD has them and my 2000X HD recently did too, through a firmware update.

[KungFuJosh]

Hi,

Does it have 4 math channels too?

Not yet, but there is a hope because the "smaller" 1000X HD has them and my 2000X HD recently did too, through a firmware update.

I'd really like to see that firmware update already. 😔

[Martin72]

That was something I had criticized early on, that you don't have a math function for each channel, so at the same time.
It was said at the time that would not be feasible for performance reasons and I had accepted that, because I appreciate the prudence of siglent very much, not to integrate every feature at any price.
But apparently it is now possible, assuming that the performance of the 1000X HD is sufficient.
Then it should also work with the 2000Xplus.

[skander36]

The prices from that Aliexpress page are a ripoff.
I expected that prices from european dealers to be higher that on China market, it's normal but not like this.
Taken from Siglent chinese site, I have made an aproximation yuan to euro to see their indicative prices. For Europe we need to wait, but I will not bite anything from Aliexpress at this price ...

[Martin72]

Compared to what the spec sheet of the new version promises us, that would be very low prices for it.
Buy the smallest 4-channel model, hack to the largest model...

[tautech]

The prices from that Aliexpress page are a ripoff.
I expected that prices from european dealers to be higher that on China market, it's normal but not like this.
Taken from Siglent chinese site, I have made an approximation yuan to euro to see their indicative prices. For Europe we need to wait, but I will not bite anything from Aliexpress at this price ...

Don't think we will see 70 MHz or 2ch versions in the west so for now we should only look at SDS12/1104X HD where your list puts the 100 MHz version near where I predicted in reply #3.

[ebastler]

for now we should only look at SDS12/1104X HD where your list puts the 100 MHz version near where I predicted in reply #3.

Not really, unfortunately. Skander's extrapolation puts the SDS1104X HD at 1167€, which is essentially the same price as the 2104X Plus over here (1199€). At least it would not be more expensive than the 2104XP, so we are halfway between your expectations and mine.

If one wants the respective LA option, the 1104X HD would become more expensive than the 2104XP, unless something like the current bundle deal also becomes available for the 1104X HD right away.

Ah well, I guess we'll just have to sit tight and wait what pricing Siglent comes up with. I hope they do that very soon -- for my own benefit but also for theirs, if they want to capture some of the "end of year leftover budget" in companies and institutions.

[Warhawk]

for now we should only look at SDS12/1104X HD where your list puts the 100 MHz version near where I predicted in reply #3.

Not really, unfortunately. Skander's extrapolation puts the SDS1104X HD at 1167€, which is essentially the same price as the 2104X Plus over here (1199€). At least it would not be more expensive than the 2104XP, so we are halfway between your expectations and mine.

If one wants the respective LA option, the 1104X HD would become more expensive than the 2104XP, unless something like the current bundle deal also becomes available for the 1104X HD right away.

Ah well, I guess we'll just have to sit tight and wait what pricing Siglent comes up with. I hope they do that very soon -- for my own benefit but also for theirs, if they want to capture some of the "end of year leftover budget" in companies and institutions.

Can you please suggest where to get 2104X Plus in Germany for 1199EUR (after tax?). I am going to order one soon.
 

[ebastler]

Can you suggest where to get 2104X Plus in Germany for 1199EUR (after tax?).

That would be nice!   All EU prices I mentioned are before tax, since VAT rates vary in different countries.

[tautech]

for now we should only look at SDS12/1104X HD where your list puts the 100 MHz version near where I predicted in reply #3.

Not really, unfortunately. Skander's extrapolation puts the SDS1104X HD at 1167€, which is essentially the same price as the 2104X Plus over here (1199€). At least it would not be more expensive than the 2104XP, so we are halfway between your expectations and mine.

Yeah sorry brain fart....was looking at the 2ch version pricing. 
However in the 800's or lower is my guess for 100 MHz 4ch HD but we need just wait and see. 

[tautech]

Can you suggest where to get 2104X Plus in Germany for 1199EUR (after tax?).

That would be nice!   All EU prices I mentioned are before tax, since VAT rates vary in different countries.

Yeah but add the savings the current promo offers ......
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/

[Warhawk]

That would be nice!   All EU prices I mentioned are before tax, since VAT rates vary in different countries.

Yup, I was not sure. Thanks for the confirmation.

Yeah but add the savings the current promo offers ......
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/

I agree. I plan to discuss the investment with my piggy bank tonight.

[tautech]

Yeah but add the savings the current promo offers ......
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/

I agree. I plan to discuss the investment with my piggy bank tonight.

Brightened my day, thanks WH.

Do check your supplier understands and knows about the promo. Quote them the bundle # so they get it right.
It can take a day or 2 to get all the licenses and best resellers will install them for you and give you copies of the printed install instructions although when we generate official licenses we can also get a tiny LIC file that we pop on a USB stick and tell the instrument to search for it from within the options menu. Seconds and it's done.....no more typing in licences codes here. 

[skander36]

... where your list puts the 100 MHz version near where I predicted in reply #3.

... Skander's extrapolation puts the SDS1104X HD at 1167€...

Is not my list or an extrapolation. Is Siglent list with Siglent indicative prices from their site (Siglent.com). My contribution was to note the equivalent amount in Euro with the curency converter. As I said this are prices from China and I expect to be higher in Europe.
Which models will be available, I don't know. In China the new models (black) can already be ordered (Tmall, JD).
   

[ebastler]

Is not my list or an extrapolation. Is Siglent list with Siglent indicative prices from their site (Siglent.com). My contribution was to note the equivalent amount in Euro with the curency converter. As I said this are prices from China and I expect to be higher in Europe.   

Ah, I see -- it was just a plain currency conversion. I thought that you had used the RMB vs. EUR pricing of other scopes (which are available in both regions) to guide your conversion; that's what I meant by "extrapolation".

I just tried the latter, using only the 2104X+ as a reference -- which is indeed quite a bit more expensive in China than the 1104X HD. Using the 2104X+ pricing to determine the "exchange rate", I arrive at 950€ before taxes for the 1104X HD in Europe.

[tautech]

Which models will be available, I don't know. In China the new models (black) can already be ordered (Tmall, JD). 

We had a hacked 70 MHz 2000X Plus appear in NZ as a grey import and Siglent were none too pleased to discover one of their mainland sellers was exporting China only models.
I won't reveal the penalty they paid. 

Lets just say it was a good swift kick in the goolies. 

[skander36]

Which models will be available, I don't know. In China the new models (black) can already be ordered (Tmall, JD). 

We had a hacked 70 MHz 2000X Plus appear in NZ as a grey import and Siglent were none too pleased to discover one of their mainland sellers was exporting China only models.
I won't reveal the penalty they paid. 

Lets just say it was a good swift kick in the goolies. 

Not a good ideea to buy from grey market. On the sites recomended by Siglent is clearly specified that they only send to China. I don't understand why Siglent don't sell to Europe while they are already certified with CE mark and are already on sale in China (so it has pass the QA phase). Their software is mostly polished as it is not on first generation as Rigol HD did on Android.

[tautech]

On the sites recommended by Siglent is clearly specified that they only send to China.

Siglent in Shenzhen is HQ, EU and USA are branches of HQ. HQ sends to their branches.

[2N3055]

Which models will be available, I don't know. In China the new models (black) can already be ordered (Tmall, JD). 

We had a hacked 70 MHz 2000X Plus appear in NZ as a grey import and Siglent were none too pleased to discover one of their mainland sellers was exporting China only models.
I won't reveal the penalty they paid. 

Lets just say it was a good swift kick in the goolies. 

Not a good ideea to buy from grey market. On the sites recomended by Siglent is clearly specified that they only send to China. I don't understand why Siglent don't sell to Europe while they are already certified with CE mark and are already on sale in China (so it has pass the QA phase). Their software is mostly polished as it is not on first generation as Rigol HD did on Android.

Their software is as polished as it is because they take it seriously.
Chef is cooking. Please be patient, it will be served when ready....
 

[ebastler]

Chef is cooking. Please be patient, it will be served when ready....
 

But it will be bought when the customer has money to spare. What about the year-end business?

[Warhawk]

Their software is as polished as it is because they take it seriously.
Chef is cooking. Please be patient, it will be served when ready....
 

Honestly, the fact that LeCroy sells Siglent scopes under their brand gives me confidence that it is not bad. I know that this is only a supplementary portfolio but they won't put LeCroy logo on something that stinks.

[skander36]

Their software is as polished as it is because they take it seriously.
Chef is cooking. Please be patient, it will be served when ready....
 

I can live without, I have enough scopes to work with, but still, not clear their market startegy ...

[KungFuJosh]

Honestly, the fact that LeCroy sells Siglent scopes under their brand gives me confidence that it is not bad. I know that this is only a supplementary portfolio but they won't put LeCroy logo on something that stinks.

LeCroy especially loves raising the prices on that rebranded hardware.

[2N3055]

Their software is as polished as it is because they take it seriously.
Chef is cooking. Please be patient, it will be served when ready....
 

I can live without, I have enough scopes to work with, but still, not clear their market startegy ...

Their marketing strategy is actually very clear.
Well made, good quality products for happy customers that come again and again. Good reputation in the long run. Value added products, not cheapest, but excellent quality and good value for money. 
That is their strategy.
To make it a reality, requires hard work and no shortcuts.

[2N3055]

Honestly, the fact that LeCroy sells Siglent scopes under their brand gives me confidence that it is not bad. I know that this is only a supplementary portfolio but they won't put LeCroy logo on something that stinks.

LeCroy especially loves raising the prices on that rebranded hardware.

Well,
unlike individuals at home, companies need support. LeCroy is supporting those rebrands to thier fullest level like their own machines.
To some, that is worth additional money. To those that don't care Siglent is there. Win -win.

[Martin72]

Honestly, the fact that LeCroy sells Siglent scopes under their brand gives me confidence that it is not bad. I know that this is only a supplementary portfolio but they won't put LeCroy logo on something that stinks.

Exactly and it's more than this, siglent building scopes for lecroy (at least WS3000Z and WS4000HD), it's a kind if technology partnership/sharing.
That is a trust that siglent certainly does not want to spoil under any circumstances.

[Martin72]

LeCroy especially loves raising the prices on that rebranded hardware.

These relabeled Siglent scopes have almost all options already included.

[KungFuJosh]

LeCroy especially loves raising the prices on that rebranded hardware.

These relabeled Siglent scopes have almost all options already included.

So do our Siglents, they just don't know it yet. 😉😉

The DMM prices are funnier though. The $400 Siglent is automatically a $700 LeCroy. Those stickers can be pricey though.

[tautech]

LeCroy especially loves raising the prices on that rebranded hardware.

These relabeled Siglent scopes have almost all options already included.

So do our Siglents, they just don't know it yet. 😉😉

The DMM prices are funnier though. The $400 Siglent is automatically a $700 LeCroy. Those stickers can be pricey though.

Even more from RS.
Ask Mr Google about RS PRO RSDM3055A 

[Martin72]

So do our Siglents, they just don't know it yet. 😉😉

You can have fun and calculate what a legally upgraded siglent costs and then compare.
Illegal hacking is only for private people, "pros" have to buy it legally and then the whole thing becomes somewhat relative.

[tautech]

Rob,
I had understood 2N3055 to mean that there is no MSO option for the 1000X HD, so the scope is not a MSO.

This only means the MSO option is not fully inbuilt. MSO/LA capabilities works just fine with my SDS1204X HD and the SLA1016 LA module.
It connects to the Sbus port just the same as X-E models.


Later when other tasks are finished I'll post a MSO/LA screenshot.

Digital mode.
Pre-release scope HW and SW ! SW enhancements requested since last beta FW release.
Currently available SLA1016 LA module with latest FW.
Just half of the 16 channels available displayed. Each channel can be individually toggled ON or OFF or as a group of 8.

Needed to check something now we have a later version FW....



And now we have trace color tabs that match with the LA pod flying leads.....something slowly migrating to all models as resources allow.

[KungFuJosh]

You can have fun and calculate what a legally upgraded siglent costs and then compare.
Illegal hacking is only for private people, "pros" have to buy it legally and then the whole thing becomes somewhat relative.

It's not actually hacking, and the legality of it is questionable. Especially since Siglent is well aware that the "improvability" of their TE is a large draw to the hobbyist market. They know the pros with the budget and need for cal references won't play that game. I'd call that part of their marketing strategy too. 😉

[KungFuJosh]

Ask Mr Google about RS PRO RSDM3055A 

I dunno what prices you see, but RS shows £589.09 before VAT, for the 5.5 digit model when I look. I was referring to pricing for the 4.5 digit model. The LeCroy version of the 5.5 digit model was $900. The 6.5 digit model is $1100.

[Warhawk]

Here in Europe, the option is now included in the price as a par of the promotion. I may pull the trigger on sds2000x plus instead of the HD version.

Ah, so it is 
https://www.siglenteu.com/news-article/permanent-analysis-bundle-on-your-new-oscilloscope/

Don't tell anyone but 2000X HD models have been reduced in cost and with the above bundle makes them quite attractive and probably the last DSO you might ever buy....yes they are that good.

I am wonder if we should expect different promotions at time of the sds1000 hd release.

1000X HD a more basic design with limited options vs 2000 series units.
FG/AWG is an external module with licensing. $159 + ? other models $109
LA/MSO is also external module with licensing. $ 329 + ? other models $109
Power analysis will be useful for some. $ ? other models starting at $269

Until we know base pricing more info is just a guess.
There could be introductory pricing but again a guess.

I must apologize for the confusion, the logic analyzer and the AWG licenses are for 235 EUR and not included in the price. Still, the price is good but I may pass on it.
Is it by chance compatible with Tektronix MDO series probes? They look similar.

I am fine with building the LA pod myself as I have old tektronix probes with high-quality coaxes and clippers.

[Warhawk]

I plan to discuss the investment with my piggy bank tonight.

Brightened my day, thanks WH.

I had a real sledgehammer argument. Batronix got business and I can't wait for the next week. 

[Martin72]

Don't tell anyone but 2000X HD models have been reduced in cost and with the above bundle makes them quite attractive

Aha...
I've paid 400€ more, but thats life.
Now the entry price is the same as the DHO4000, a smart move, because if I had the choice between the two for the same money, the result would be clear.

[ebastler]

Don't tell anyone but 2000X HD models have been reduced in cost and with the above bundle makes them quite attractive

Now the entry price is the same as the DHO4000, a smart move, because if I had the choice between the two for the same money, the result would be clear.

Am I looking at it wrong, or are you comparing the 100 MHz 2104X HD with the 200 MHz DHO4204 there?

[tautech]

I must apologize for the confusion, the logic analyzer and the AWG licenses are for 235 EUR and not included in the price. Still, the price is good but I may pass on it.
Is it by chance compatible with Tektronix MDO series probes? They look similar.

I am fine with building the LA pod myself as I have old tektronix probes with high-quality coaxes and clippers.

Correct, 235 EUR is additional for the promo bundle:

SDS2000X PLUS: SDS2XP-BND:   SPL2016, SDS2000XP-16LA, SDS2000XP-FG, SDS2000XP FlexRay/1553B/CANFD/I2S/SENT/Manch

^^^ only available with a new purchase.

SPL2016 LA probe slots over a PCIe socket in the X Plus and several other models and some Tek models use the same setup but wouldn't know the models, sorry.
Pop up a pic of the Tek LA probes you have and many here will recognize if they will fit Siglent.

[Warhawk]

Awesome, I found exactly what I need
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-probes-alternate-approach-using-tks-adapter-pcb/msg4326775/#msg4326775

[tautech]

Awesome, I found exactly what I need
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-probes-alternate-approach-using-tks-adapter-pcb/msg4326775/#msg4326775

Oh that Tek LA probe....thought you meant one the looks same as SPL2016.
Somewhere I hunted out which brands used the same and their Pt#'s ....deep search needed to find it now.

Mnem's one should serve you well albeit the lead length is a little lacking. 

[ebastler]

Somewhere I hunted out which brands used the same and their Pt#'s ....deep search needed to find it now.

You had pulled together a nice little gallery of LeCroy, Tek and Rigol look-alikes here, with part numbers too:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds2000x-plus-coming/msg3026262/#msg3026262

Did anyone ever figure out the OEM?

[Martin72]

Am I looking at it wrong, or are you comparing the 100 MHz 2104X HD with the 200 MHz DHO4204 there?

I didn't compare, I just said if I had the choice, the case would be clear to me.
Furthermore, I was able to compare both in February.
In the end, the only argument for the dho4000 was the lower price, and that is no longer the case.

[ebastler]

Am I looking at it wrong, or are you comparing the 100 MHz 2104X HD with the 200 MHz DHO4204 there?

I didn't compare, I just said if I had the choice, the case would be clear to me.
Furthermore, I was able to compare both in February.
In the end, the only argument for the dho4000 was the lower price, and that is no longer the case.

I just meant that you compared prices of the two. Which seemed a bit skewed; one should compare the 200 MHz models of each series, in which case the 2204X HD is still a fair bit more expensive. Not questioning your decision/recommendation in favor of the Siglent here!

[Warhawk]

Awesome, I found exactly what I need
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-probes-alternate-approach-using-tks-adapter-pcb/msg4326775/#msg4326775

Oh that Tek LA probe....thought you meant one the looks same as SPL2016.
Somewhere I hunted out which brands used the same and their Pt#'s ....deep search needed to find it now.

Mnem's one should serve you well albeit the lead length is a little lacking. 

Sorry tautech, I made it confusing when thinking aloud. I can borrow the new tek probe that looks like SPL2016 for the test. But it is not mine. However, I also have the old HP ones that are mine and come from the collection box.

[Martin72]

And now we have trace color tabs that match with the LA pod flying leads.....something slowly migrating to all models as resources allow.

Looks really nice, I had looked earlier, whether the big brother also has this after the last upgrade - No, he has not yet.

[asmi]

In the end, the only argument for the dho4000 was the lower price, and that is no longer the case.

In US it's $2699 vs $3265 - that's 20% difference, which is quite significant IMHO. And DHO4000 comes with all options for free.

[tautech]

In the end, the only argument for the dho4000 was the lower price, and that is no longer the case.

In US it's $2699 vs $3265 - that's 20% difference, which is quite significant IMHO. And DHO4000 comes with all options for free.

Maybe you are not aware of latest 2kX HD pricing, it's better than $2700.
Add the current options and MSO promo and lets just say, it very competitive.

[asmi]

Maybe you are not aware of latest 2kX HD pricing, it's better than $2700.

Apparently NA folks are not aware of it either (see screenshot).

Add the current options and MSO promo and lets just say, it very competitive.

I only see a promo for Power Analysis Toolkit, which is the most useless option. Very lame and certainly not even close to justify much higher price.

[Martin72]

Compared to the quality and performance, the price is almost too low.
Unlike almost everyone who gives their two cents here on the forum, I own one and have had the other at home for three weeks to compare with it.
That is something different than just looking at data sheets.

[asmi]

Compared to the quality and performance, the price is almost too low.
Unlike almost everyone who gives their two cents here on the forum, I own one and have had the other at home for three weeks to compare with it.
That is something different than just looking at data sheets.

If the price is so low for you, how about you buy me one? It's not too low for me.

[KungFuJosh]

If the price is so low for you, how about you buy me one? It's not too low for me.

He doesn't mean low for his budget, he means low for price + features + performance.

[asmi]

He doesn't mean low for his budget, he means low for price + features + performance.

There is no way 20% higher price can be "too low" when features are worse - as far as I can tell, Rigol has serial decodes, Siglent does not. You've gotta be a complete shill to say otherwise.

[tautech]

He doesn't mean low for his budget, he means low for price + features + performance.

There is no way 20% higher price can be "too low" when features are worse - as far as I can tell, Rigol has serial decodes, Siglent does not.

All Decode capable Siglent DSO's come std with I2C, SPI, UART, CAN, and LIN.
FD, FlexRay, I2S and MIL-STD-1553B are optional but are sometimes bundled as in the current promos.

[2N3055]

He doesn't mean low for his budget, he means low for price + features + performance.

There is no way 20% higher price can be "too low" when features are worse - as far as I can tell, Rigol has serial decodes, Siglent does not. You've gotta be a complete shill to say otherwise.

No we don't have to be complete shills.
All you need is to be able to read datasheets.

Siglent was first manufacturer that started giving avay serial decoders for free years ago. Made Keysight and R&S really unhappy.

If you are comparing SDS2000X HD and DHO4000, SDS2000X HD gives one protocol more for free (LIN) and has 2 more optional protocols to choose from (SENT and MANCHESTER)..

DHO4000 has about 50-60% of analytic capability of SDS2000X HD. Just the difference in implementation of math channels is huge. And many more features. DHO4000 has edge only in fact that it's fastest version goes to quite high frequencies. It seems to be good scope. But not even close in measurement capabilities.

For people that just want 12bit scope big screen, active probes etc but not advanced math it would be decent choice.
But generally you don't buy 12 bit scope to just use it as CRT analog scope. You don't need that analog performance to not use that info.
And that is where DHO4000 fails short. Close but no cigar.

[ebastler]

For people that just want 12bit scope big screen, active probes etc but not advanced math it would be decent choice.
But generally you don't buy 12 bit scope to just use it as CRT analog scope. You don't need that analog performance to not use that info.
And that is where DHO4000 fails short. Close but no cigar.

A big differentiator in my book is the ability to add MSO capability and Bode plotting (via internal or external AWG) to the SDS2000X HD. Surprising for a scope in its class, the DHO4000 supports neither, if I am not mistaken.

But what am I dreaming about... For my hobby needs I could not justify the budget for either of them. Can we please have a price and ship date for the SDS1000X HD (which happens to be the scope this thread was originally talking about)? 

[2N3055]

For people that just want 12bit scope big screen, active probes etc but not advanced math it would be decent choice.
But generally you don't buy 12 bit scope to just use it as CRT analog scope. You don't need that analog performance to not use that info.
And that is where DHO4000 fails short. Close but no cigar.

A big differentiator in my book is the ability to add MSO capability and Bode plotting (via internal or external AWG) to the SDS2000X HD. Surprising for a scope in its class, the DHO4000 supports neither, if I am not mistaken.

But what am I dreaming about... For my hobby needs I could not justify the budget for either of them. Can we please have a price and ship date for the SDS1000X HD (which happens to be the scope this thread was originally talking about)? 

MSO and bunch of other stuff...

I 'm pretty sure nobody will be able to stop Tautech from telling you and the rest of the world as soon as official date is known .....
 

[Martin72]

I 'm pretty sure nobody will be able to stop Tautech from telling you and the rest of the world as soon as official date is known .....

Yepp...  

For me, with another model, it would be to know when and IF it comes....

A big differentiator in my book is the ability to add MSO capability and Bode plotting (via internal or external AWG) to the SDS2000X HD. Surprising for a scope in its class, the DHO4000 supports neither, if I am not mistaken.

You´re not.
To put it bluntly, you have to think of the dho4000 as a larger dho800.
More memory, more bandwidth, one more adc, more decoder, PA, bigger screen and one more acquisition (hi-res).
Same software, same adc, same cpu....

[tautech]

I 'm pretty sure nobody will be able to stop Tautech from telling you and the rest of the world as soon as official date is known .....

Yepp...  

For me, with another model, it would be to know when and IF it comes....

SDS3000X HD, early 2024 is the whispers...... 

[asmi]

No we don't have to be complete shills.
All you need is to be able to read datasheets.

Yes you are.

Siglent was first manufacturer that started giving avay serial decoders for free years ago. Made Keysight and R&S really unhappy.

So what?

If you are comparing SDS2000X HD and DHO4000, SDS2000X HD gives one protocol more for free (LIN) and has 2 more optional protocols to choose from (SENT and MANCHESTER)..

Those are useless for me, unlike I2S, which Siglent doesn't give (but DHO4000 does).

DHO4000 has about 50-60% of analytic capability of SDS2000X HD. Just the difference in implementation of math channels is huge. And many more features. DHO4000 has edge only in fact that it's fastest version goes to quite high frequencies. It seems to be good scope. But not even close in measurement capabilities.

Don't care about fluff and paper features which I will never use anyway - I'm only interested in the main functionality. Analog bandwidth is the most important thing for me, with occasional serial decodes (but I'm hopefully going to buy an LA for that, so that won't be as important either). That's what I use the scope for. Everything else is not important.

For people that just want 12bit scope big screen, active probes etc but not advanced math it would be decent choice.
But generally you don't buy 12 bit scope to just use it as CRT analog scope. You don't need that analog performance to not use that info.

Yes I do. I don't care for "advanced math" (whatever it is). As long as I can export data points to PC, it will trash whatever "advanced math" features scope has without even breaking a sweat.

And that is where DHO4000 fails short. Close but no cigar.

I don't see it yet. But fierce shilling from Siglent makes me strongly suspect otherwise - because good product generally doesn't need any shilling as it sells itself. So far I only see 2000HD praised by confirmed or suspected shills, but very little in the way or actual normal users.
----
<removed>

[tautech]

And I guess we've now established that tautech's post about pricing was a lie So lame - all it takes is a single glance on the website...

Sorry, an honest error.
100 MHz vs 200 MHz pricing

I'll have a SDS2104X HD in ~10 days then I can test its -3dB point to see how it might compare with any 200 MHz model.
SDS2104X Plus was ~185 MHz and SDS2204X Plus was 300 MHz from recent tests....done with 2 sources as double confirmation.

[Martin72]

So far I only see 2000HD praised by confirmed or suspected shills, but very little in the way or actual normal users.

The same applies to dho4000 buyers.
But the posts in the threads of the dho 800 scopes just "explode".
Guess why...

[2N3055]

No we don't have to be complete shills.
All you need is to be able to read datasheets.

Yes you are.

Siglent was first manufacturer that started giving avay serial decoders for free years ago. Made Keysight and R&S really unhappy.

So what?

If you are comparing SDS2000X HD and DHO4000, SDS2000X HD gives one protocol more for free (LIN) and has 2 more optional protocols to choose from (SENT and MANCHESTER)..

Those are useless for me, unlike I2S, which Siglent doesn't give (but DHO4000 does).

DHO4000 has about 50-60% of analytic capability of SDS2000X HD. Just the difference in implementation of math channels is huge. And many more features. DHO4000 has edge only in fact that it's fastest version goes to quite high frequencies. It seems to be good scope. But not even close in measurement capabilities.

Don't care about fluff and paper features which I will never use anyway - I'm only interested in the main functionality. Analog bandwidth is the most important thing for me, with occasional serial decodes (but I'm hopefully going to buy an LA for that, so that won't be as important either). That's what I use the scope for. Everything else is not important.

For people that just want 12bit scope big screen, active probes etc but not advanced math it would be decent choice.
But generally you don't buy 12 bit scope to just use it as CRT analog scope. You don't need that analog performance to not use that info.

Yes I do. I don't care for "advanced math" (whatever it is). As long as I can export data points to PC, it will trash whatever "advanced math" features scope has without even breaking a sweat.

And that is where DHO4000 fails short. Close but no cigar.

I don't see it yet. But fierce shilling from Siglent makes me strongly suspect otherwise - because good product generally doesn't need any shilling as it sells itself. So far I only see 2000HD praised by confirmed or suspected shills, but very little in the way or actual normal users.
----
And I guess we've now established that tautech's post about pricing was a lie So lame - all it takes is a single glance on the website...

You are rude and abrasive. And don't care much for facts and won't let the facts stand in a way of good insult.

Rigol has one less protocol for free. If there is a sales promotion where they give you a bundle good for you. Siglent has those too. They come and go. Basic options are there in datasheet. Go and read.

I also said that if you don't need advanced scope but something simple with 12 bit and larger screen that then DHO4000 will serve you fine. It was right there in that text where you selectively copied only parts that justify your insults..
I didn't say it makes you stupid that you need/want only basic scope. But somehow you think you have right to call names people that want/need scope with more analytical capability. All manufacturers should be forbidden to make scopes that you don't approve of. Whoever makes  or uses a scope differently than you think is appropriate is an idiot.. Quite narcissistic and egocentric way of thinking...

If anybody is shill and troll it is you. You are pushing inferior scope by Rigol in a topic that discusses incoming new Siglent scope and it's similarity to SDS2000X HD.
Go sell Rigol somewhere else.

[asmi]

Sorry, an honest error.
100 MHz vs 200 MHz pricing

Ok, fair enough, we'll consider that incident resolved.

[KungFuJosh]

consider that incident resolved.

I think you're the angriest Canadian on here. 😉

[asmi]

You are rude and abrasive. And don't care much for facts and won't let the facts stand in a way of good insult.

I do care about facts, but you clearly don't. Otherwise you wouldn't beging praising the scope which didn't even came out yet

I didn't say it makes you stupid that you need/want only basic scope. But somehow you think you have right to call names people that want/need scope with more analytical capability. All manufacturers should be forbidden to make scopes that you don't approve of. Whoever makes  or uses a scope differently than you think is appropriate is an idiot.. Quite narcissistic and egocentric way of thinking...

I don't care if you need all that fluff, what I don't agree with is your point that EVERYBODY needs this fluff, and one scope which has less BS features is somehow useless just because of that.

If anybody is shill and troll it is you. You are pushing inferior scope by Rigol in a topic that discusses incoming new Siglent scope and it's similarity to SDS2000X HD.
Go sell Rigol somewhere else.

I'm not selling anything, nor I'm trying to convince Siglent shills to stop shilling - they obviously can't do that. I'm trying to bring some balance to discussion which otherwise is so one-sided that it's not even fully. Just look at the latest Rigol thread - there is some much Siglent shilling there, that sometimes I feel like it's not a thread about Rigol scope at all.
And see even in this post you claim that Rigol scope is somehow inferior, even though I clearly see otherwise - cheaper, better screen, more bandwidth, faster and more responsive UI. Those things are what matters, not useless BS fluff that very few ever use.

[asmi]

I think you're the angriest Canadian on here. 😉

I'm not angry, I'm just tired reading all this shilling.

[KungFuJosh]

shills

[2N3055]

You are rude and abrasive. And don't care much for facts and won't let the facts stand in a way of good insult.

I do care about facts, but you clearly don't. Otherwise you wouldn't beging praising the scope which didn't even came out yet

I didn't say it makes you stupid that you need/want only basic scope. But somehow you think you have right to call names people that want/need scope with more analytical capability. All manufacturers should be forbidden to make scopes that you don't approve of. Whoever makes  or uses a scope differently than you think is appropriate is an idiot.. Quite narcissistic and egocentric way of thinking...

I don't care if you need all that fluff, what I don't agree with is your point that EVERYBODY needs this fluff, and one scope which has less BS features is somehow useless just because of that.

If anybody is shill and troll it is you. You are pushing inferior scope by Rigol in a topic that discusses incoming new Siglent scope and it's similarity to SDS2000X HD.
Go sell Rigol somewhere else.

I'm not selling anything, nor I'm trying to convince Siglent shills to stop shilling - they obviously can't do that. I'm trying to bring some balance to discussion which otherwise is so one-sided that it's not even fully. Just look at the latest Rigol thread - there is some much Siglent shilling there, that sometimes I feel like it's not a thread about Rigol scope at all.
And see even in this post you claim that Rigol scope is somehow inferior, even though I clearly see otherwise - cheaper, better screen, more bandwidth, faster and more responsive UI. Those things are what matters, not useless BS fluff that very few ever use.

It is called paranoia. Take the meds.

[asmi]

It is called paranoia. Take the meds.

It's not paranoia if it's the reality. Do you want to count how many posts of yours are in the thread about Rigol scopes, even though you are clearly not interested in one? Do that, return with the number, and then we'll discuss who has paranoia and who needs to take meds.

[KungFuJosh]

It's not paranoia if it's the reality. Do you want to count how many posts of yours are in the thread about Rigol scopes, even though you are clearly not interested in one? Do that, return with the number, and then we'll discuss who has paranoia and who needs to take meds.

My first scope was a Rigol. That made me absolutely hate Rigol. I can't stand their scopes, I think their interfaces are poor at best, their graphics and layouts are crap, and their support is embarrassing. But you know what I don't do? I don't go hijacking Rigol threads with my unwanted opinion on their scopes. I don't like Rigol, so I don't buy their stuff, as simple as that.

There are no shills here. There are people here that own and are happy with Siglent products, discussing new products they're interested in.

You speak for NOBODY but yourself. You may not be interested in a plethora of features, but others are. Every user has different needs.

If you're not just trolling, you don't make any sense. If you're not interested, then go buy the Rigol you want and ignore this fake shill thread.

[2N3055]

It is called paranoia. Take the meds.

It's not paranoia if it's the reality. Do you want to count how many posts of yours are in the thread about Rigol scopes, even though you are clearly not interested in one? Do that, return with the number, and then we'll discuss who has paranoia and who needs to take meds.

You count them. And then count ones that I mention Siglent when it was not an answer to the question.
I think you confuse me with somebody else..

[asmi]

My first scope was a Rigol. That made me absolutely hate Rigol. I can't stand their scopes, I think their interfaces are poor at best, their graphics and layouts are crap, and their support is embarrassing. But you know what I don't do? I don't go hijacking Rigol threads with my unwanted opinion on their scopes. I don't like Rigol, so I don't buy their stuff, as simple as that.

I'm not talking about you, but go and open any Rigol thread - you will see all the same people who are praising Siglent here. One might ask a question - what the hell they all are doing there?

There are no shills here.

Yes there are. Some are open, others are trying (unsuccessfully) to pretend to be "objective".

There are people here that own and are happy with Siglent products, discussing new products they're interested in.

I don't see many posts from those people. But it's always the same faces, saying the same things.

You speak for NOBODY but yourself. You may not be interested in a plethora of features, but others are. Every user has different needs.

Yep, but unlike others I'm not saying that everybody absolutely needs all of that BS fluff.

If you're not just trolling, you don't make any sense. If you're not interested, then go buy the Rigol you want and ignore this fake shill thread.

I am interested in honest opinions of regular users, but not all the same people which clearly have some agenda here.

[tautech]

asmi
I see the market very differently from where I sit.
We have inquiry for mid entry range DSO's that when I judge the buyers experience might suggest a cheaper nearly as capable model. Rare is it they take that advice although it might save a $ that they can put towards other equipment.

Others are just adamant the want all the fluff, bells and whistles so to have an instrument they can grow into and it serve them well as their skills develop and grow.

No one size fits all irregardless of the entry cost.
YMMV

[Veteran68]

I think you're the angriest Canadian on here ever. 😉

FYP 

[KungFuJosh]

I'm not talking about you, but go and open any Rigol thread - you will see all the same people who are praising Siglent here. One might ask a question - what the hell they all are doing there?

I know you didn't mean me. My only comment about a Rigol in a Rigol thread was to praise their adding VESA mounts. I didn't like anything else I saw about the scope, but that one feature was cool, so I mentioned that.

There are no shills here.

Yes there are. Some are open, others are trying (unsuccessfully) to pretend to be "objective".

The onus is yours to prove that opinion. But first look up the definition of what a shill is. Objectivity is irrelevant. I'm not objective. I don't have to be. I like what I like, and I lean that way. I'm not a brand whore, but when a brand makes great products and treats me right, it might be easy to think that. My experience with Siglent has been nothing but fantastic. Except for the bug in my scope firmware that still annoys me. 😉

Yep, but unlike others I'm not saying that everybody absolutely needs all of that BS fluff.

Quite the opposite. You're saying that nobody needs those features. Guess what? I don't need most of them either! Guess what else? I want them! I want to learn and grow. If my SDS2504XP only had the features I need, I wouldn't have been able to do most of the learning stuff with the Batronix demo board. I enjoyed that a lot, and I learned a lot too.

I am interested in honest opinions of regular users, but not all the same people which clearly have some agenda here.

This is where you lose everybody, myself included. You claim to want honesty, but when you receive it, you don't accept it for what it is. We don't all have to agree on everything. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing opinions. There is something wrong with attacking and insulting the people you disagree with.

[asmi]

The onus is yours to prove that opinion. But first look up the definition of what a shill is. Objectivity is irrelevant. I'm not objective. I don't have to be. I like what I like, and I lean that way. I'm not a brand whore, but when a brand makes great products and treats me right, it might be easy to think that. My experience with Siglent has been nothing but fantastic. Except for the bug in my scope firmware that still annoys me. 😉

Of course it is relevant. But because people are not objective, it's important to know their biases. And I commend those who disclose them openly. Others pretend to be objective.

This is where you lose everybody, myself included. You claim to want honesty, but when you receive it, you don't accept it for what it is. We don't all have to agree on everything. There's nothing wrong with disagreeing opinions. There is something wrong with attacking and insulting the people you disagree with.

I don't see objectivity, I see shilling. All the same 5 people go from thread to thread and say the same things. Don't they have anything better to do? Maybe not, if they have interest is saying what they are saying.

BTW list of people thanking your post is also very telling - all the same shillspeople again

[Martin72]

All the same 5 people go from thread to thread and say the same things. Don't they have anything better to do? Maybe not, if they have interest is saying what they are saying.

Reminds me of an old joke:
A wrong-way driver ? Hundreds !!!

[sebyon]

SDS3000X HD, early 2024 is the whispers...... 

So I'm guessing the SDS1000X HD will be released at the same time or earlier? 

[Martin72]

I once asked, the answer was sometime between September 2023 and February 2024.

[ebastler]

I once asked, the answer was sometime between September 2023 and February 2024.

I hope they understand the significance of "Christmas" in this market segment.

And year-end, for commercial or institutional customers with leftover budget.

[BillyO]

I don't see objectivity, I see shilling.

Ooooh, conspiracies all around you, eh? I wonder, is your earth flat?  I bet it's all NASA's doing, right?

Well in the end, no one is stopping you from buying the Rigol and stopping your bellyaching.  In my experience Rigol are just not made with as much attention to quality, usability, detail and support.

It's like the difference between a Honda Civic and a Kia Forte.  The Honda is just better built and more than worth the extra 20%.

[KungFuJosh]

It's like the difference between a Honda Civic and a Kia Forte.  The Honda is just better built and more than worth the extra 20%.

We're shilling for Honda now? Shit, I didn't get the memo. 

[BillyO]

We're shilling for Honda now? Shit, I didn't get the memo. 

[2N3055]

LOL...

[2N3055]

BTW list of people thanking your post is also very telling - all the same shillspeople again

It is called "agreeing with someone's statement."

But I can see how you are not familiar with the concept....

[Martin72]

I hope they understand the significance of "Christmas" in this market segment.
And year-end, for commercial or institutional customers with leftover budget.

I can ask again, meanwhile some weeks have passed....

[ebastler]

BTW list of people thanking your post is also very telling - all the same shillspeople again

It is called "agreeing with someone's statement."
But I can see how you are not familiar with the concept....

I can see, however, how the same group of people thanking each other often can cause the perception that there is a "gang" of users pushing the same agenda.

For me, it conjures up the mental picture of UK parliament, where the current speaker's party interjects "hear, hear!" regularly... Better than the "gang" picture, I guess. 

[2N3055]

BTW list of people thanking your post is also very telling - all the same shillspeople again

It is called "agreeing with someone's statement."
But I can see how you are not familiar with the concept....

I can see, however, how the same group of people thanking each other often can cause the perception that there is a "gang" of users pushing the same agenda.

For me, it conjures up the mental picture of UK parliament, where the current speaker's party interjects "hear, hear!" regularly... Better than the "gang" picture, I guess. 

I actually miss several buttons as response. We use this "thank you!" button for all purposes. We use it for "thank you that was kind", "thanks God someone sane here!", "Exactly what I meant!", " I mostly agree" and sometimes for " I read your statement I have no further comments".

That basically makes it look like "circular tapping on the back" by a clique... even when it is not..
And sometimes that happens, and by all kinds of groups.

There were "Rigol sympathizers", "Siglent  sympathizers", " Keysight sympathizers", "R&S sympathizers", "JBC sympathizers", "PACE sympathizers"......
And many "This gamechanger XXXXXX will change the world" topics where such discussions were held.

It is just what it is. In the end facts are king and all the rest is irrelevant.

[ebastler]

Now I am unsure whether it is acceptable to click "thank you" in response to your post... 

I fully agree, both with your observation that the "thank you" button is used to convey very different messages, and with the fact that shared views, and to some extent cliques, are just a reality -- here on the forum and elsewhere in the world. People will have biases and preferences, typically based on at least some level of factual experience (good or bad) with certain products or brands.

We can deal with that: Others may chime in and add other angles, or point out what they think is an overly biased view. I still think that it would be a good idea for those who earn any material benefits from specific brands to disclose those affiliations. If they don't want to do so, we can deal with that too: If someone argues like a salesman, I reserve the right to call them out on that as well.

[Grandchuck]

"The trolls will always troll, the shills will always agree with the highest bidder, and the bots are only going to get smarter from here on out. Giving everyone who disagrees with you one of these labels does no good for any of us in the long run. Every participator and spectator to every thread and conversation has to think for themselves no matter what is said or who is saying it."

https://www.reddit.com/r/C_S_T/comments/7l0cs9/what_do_you_get_when_you_combine_a_shill_a_troll/?rdt=55507

[tv84]

People should deal with forums as Zero Trust zones!

I have no problems with fanboys, betatesters, addicted TEAs, BDSM lovers, etc... My major wars come from dumb people. As long as people act intelligently I can deal with any reasoning. I always put the adequate amount of salt on their words as I see fit.

[KungFuJosh]

People should deal with forums as Zero Trust zones!

I have no problems with fanboys, betatesters, addicted TEAs, BDSM lovers, etc... My major wars come from dumb people. As long as people act intelligently I can deal with any reasoning. I always put the adequate amount of salt on their words as I see fit.

Whoa! You're into Binary Data Signal Monitors too??

[asmi]

It's like the difference between a Honda Civic and a Kia Forte.  The Honda is just better built and more than worth the extra 20%.

I know quite a few people who would strongly disagree with that statement

[BillyO]

I know quite a few people who would strongly disagree with that statement

No doubt.

[asmi]

It is called "agreeing with someone's statement."

It says "thanks", not "I agree".

But I can see how you are not familiar with the concept....

I can see now you have a problem with complehending a simple phrase.

[asmi]

No doubt.

As far as I can tell, they both suck equally

[BillyO]

As far as I can tell, they both suck equally

Of course.

However, in every single reputable review of cars in this class since nearly .. forever, it is either the Honda or the Toyota that come out on top with the push going to Honda.

Out of interest sake, what in this class would you put on top?

[KungFuJosh]

As far as I can tell, they both suck equally

I clicked the thank you on your post to agree with your statement. 😉

[asmi]

Out of interest sake, what in this class would you put on top?

About 10 years ago I would put Toyota/Lexus on the top. But then I worked at Toyota plants for almost 8 years - so now I'm not sure I got Audi, so I'm not very familiar with mass-market segment, but I do know quite a few people who highly praise their Hundai/Kia/Honda, so they must be pretty good

[BillyO]

About 10 years ago I would put Toyota/Lexus on the top.

Well, like Oscilloscopes it is very class dependent.  Certainly anyone would agree that Lexus are better than Acura but you pay for that.

Too bad about the Audi.  I had an A6 sedan back in 2008 bought new.  It was a considerable disappointment.  Fancy thing.  Marginally better than my boss' BMW, but still unreliable, over-priced and had a crap re-sale value which I found out 2 years later and was just a money pit to maintain.  Since I just needed a a vehicle I could rely on to get me to work and back and do some weekend chores I sold it at a huge loss and replaced it with a Honda Ridgeline.  That Honda is still in the family (gave it to my son) has 385,000 kM on it, still runs like a top and has never failed to do it's job.  I replaced that with a Toyota Tacoma .. still remains to see if that was a good move.

Enjoy your Audi.

[asmi]

Too bad about the Audi.  I had an A6 sedan back in 2008 bought new.  It was a considerable disappointment.  Fancy thing.  Marginally better than my boss' BMW, but still unreliable, over-priced and had a crap re-sale value which I found out 2 years later and was just a money pit to maintain.  Since I just needed a a vehicle I could rely on to get me to work and back and do some weekend chores I sold it at a huge loss and replaced it with a Honda Ridgeline.  That Honda is still in the family (gave it to my son) has 385,000 kM on it, still runs like a top and has never failed to do it's job.  I replaced that with a Toyota Tacoma .. still remains to see if that was a good move.

Enjoy your Audi.

I'm now in my second SQ5 (previous one was MY2016, current one is MY2021), and with both I had zero issues. I'm actually considering keeping my current one until the wheels fall off because I kind of like it, and more modern ones don't really have anything exciting enough to upgrade. Not to mention that I got my 2021 for 0% financing which now is a pipe dream

[mawyatt]

We have an Audi A4 from ~2008, my youngest daughter's car. It's been a total POS, one of the worst vehicles we've ever owned, constantly something not working. Audi Dealer and Audi USA were also about as bad an experience as we've had.

Best,

[Veteran68]

So the car thing is a perfect example of how everyone's experiences -- anecdotal such as they are -- can differ at an individual level.

Toyota: I have a 2001 Toyota Sequoia SUV with 293K miles on it. It's beat to hell now but still runs great. I'd never regret owning another, but when I was in the market for a new one a couple years ago, what I wanted could not be found, and the closest matches were selling for well above MSRP. Which is just a hard no for me. I've never paid sticker for a car and I just can't do it.

Audi: When I couldn't get a new Toyota/Lexus that I wanted for what I considered a reasonable price, I decided if I was going to spend the $$ that I'd splurge on a 2021 Q5 Prestige. I'd been looking at them for years with some envy, and my boss had one. I love it so far! No issues whatsoever, but it's only 2 years old with less than 30K miles, and still under warranty. If it starts to get flaky, I'll unload it, but so far it's been great and the level of customer service from the dealer is light years beyond what I've gotten with any other dealer. And I thought I was happy with my Toyota dealer. But my Audi dealer treats me like royalty, and it's not like I spent 6 figures on the car.

Honda:  The one and only Honda I've ever bought was a new 2008 Civic for my youngest daughter. That was the biggest unmitigated turd of a vehicle I've ever owned! Nothing but problems from the time we bought it, and the local Honda dealer was a huge pain in the ass compared to the other dealers I've dealt with. Couldn't wait to unload it.

Kia:  After the Honda debacle above, my daughter moved to Kia's and is on her second one now. She loves them! Never had an issue with any of them.

A mechanic friend of mine who did my out-of-warranty work for years before moving away, was a certified BMW and Toyota/Lexus mechanic who told me that in his opinion the #1 most reliable brand was Toyota/Lexus, and #2 was Kia. Despite being one of the only certified BMW mechanics in our town, he strongly advised against them, LOL. He considered the Audi Q series to be reliable, just expensive to maintain (which I can certainly see, which is why I prepaid for my first 40K miles of maintenance at a steep discount). Some other Audi models are known to have issues, although I think you can find models to avoid with nearly any brand.

[KungFuJosh]

I've never paid sticker for a car and I just can't do it.

100%. It's impossible. Even if somebody handed me a check for $50,000,000, I'd still haggle a better price on a car the next day. 🤣

[Antonio90]

I like Mazda cars. The gasoline atmosferic ones. The price of the basic trims is (or was) pretty reasonable, and they work. They also usually have all the safety-related stuff.
Never understood luxury, highest trims or very expensive cars, if I have money to burn I try to put it into useful stuff.
Better tools, books, good test equipment, house reforms, etc. Luxury is quickly assimilated as a baseline lifestyle, and it doesn't really add anything.

And, going back to scope talk, Will the SDS2000X Plus get 4 math channels? Or are there processing power constraints?
does the SDS1000X HD have a different, more powerful processor or FPGA?
Also, I guess this is way too soon, but will it be "secured" like the 2000X Plus, or rather as the 2000X HD?

[2N3055]

I like Mazda cars. The gasoline atmosferic ones. The price of the basic trims is (or was) pretty reasonable, and they work. They also usually have all the safety-related stuff.
Never understood luxury, highest trims or very expensive cars, if I have money to burn I try to put it into useful stuff.
Better tools, books, good test equipment, house reforms, etc. Luxury is quickly assimilated as a baseline lifestyle, and it doesn't really add anything.

And, going back to scope talk, Will the SDS2000X Plus get 4 math channels? Or are there processing power constraints?
does the SDS1000X HD have a different, more powerful processor or FPGA?
Also, I guess this is way too soon, but will it be "secured" like the 2000X Plus, or rather as the 2000X HD?

SDS1000X HD is related to SDS2000X HD. Apart from color and label stating model they are visually identical.
They are different (newer) design from SDS2000X+.
What exactly will be inside production model I don't know yet.
Until it is officially released it is never sure.

As for security model, I have no idea.

[tautech]

Playing with Zoom mode which offers both horizontal and vertical zoom.

[skander36]

Playing with Zoom mode which offers both horizontal and vertical zoom.

Touch&zoom(not pinch&zoom) or from buttons (or both)?
By touch zoom I mean draw a rectangle and touch for zoom in.

[BillyO]

They better hurry.  I have the money now but it's burning a hole in my pocket, and I have the attention span of an addled gnat.

Hope they offer some other color than black/charcoal grey.  It will throw my whole lab aesthetic off! 

[Martin72]

There has never been a black model on the western market and that's all I'm going to say about that.

[tautech]

Playing with Zoom mode which offers both horizontal and vertical zoom.

Touch&zoom(not pinch&zoom) or from buttons (or both)?

Zoom is activated pressing the timebase control.

By touch zoom I mean draw a rectangle and touch for zoom in.

The size of the zoom window box is set with horizontal and vertical controls and the zoom window box can be moved with touch and we can also position where the waveform in the box in both the unzoomed or zoomed window with touch.

Default zoom is only horizontal until we select the zoomed window and increase sensitivity.

[ebastler]

Digital mode.
Pre-release scope HW and SW ! SW enhancements requested since last beta FW release.
Currently available SLA1016 LA module with latest FW.
Just half of the 16 channels available displayed. Each channel can be individually toggled ON or OFF or as a group of 8.

Needed to check something now we have a later version FW....
And now we have trace color tabs that match with the LA pod flying leads.....something slowly migrating to all models as resources allow.

Hi Rob, I have read up a bit on the capabilities and limitations of the external LA option. Best I could find was a rather old summary by Performa01, relating to the SDS1000X-E: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2007983/#msg2007983

Are the limitations the same for the 1000X HD?
(a) No mixed digital/analog pattern trigger -- this is probably a fundamental limitation of the external LA?
(b) No Zoom in Run mode with the digital channels -- this seems like a software limitation that has hopefully been overcome, maybe even for the 1000X-E in the meantime?

Thanks!

[tautech]

Digital mode.
Pre-release scope HW and SW ! SW enhancements requested since last beta FW release.
Currently available SLA1016 LA module with latest FW.
Just half of the 16 channels available displayed. Each channel can be individually toggled ON or OFF or as a group of 8.

Needed to check something now we have a later version FW....
And now we have trace color tabs that match with the LA pod flying leads.....something slowly migrating to all models as resources allow.

Hi Rob, I have read up a bit on the capabilities and limitations of the external LA option. Best I could find was a rather old summary by Performa01, relating to the SDS1000X-E: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/siglent-sds1204x-e-released-for-domestic-markets-in-china/msg2007983/#msg2007983

Well I suspect things have changed some since 2018 where IIRC there have been 2 or more FW updates to the external SLA1016 LA module

Are the limitations the same for the 1000X HD?
(a) No mixed digital/analog pattern trigger -- this is probably a fundamental limitation of the external LA?

Unsure, this need be checked as to where the triggering is actually happening where I would suspect inside the scope.

(b) No Zoom in Run mode with the digital channels -- this seems like a software limitation that has hopefully been overcome, maybe even for the 1000X-E in the meantime?

Why would we need a zoom mode for digital channels when they are a reconstruction of a pulse that meets a user set threshold. What we see on the display bears little resemblance to the digital waveform.
Much like a clock waveform, it matters little what it looks like providing it meets the required thresholds.

Lemme think about running some tests in the next few days....although it's the weekend I do have a bit on.

[ebastler]

Why would we need a zoom mode for digital channels when they are a reconstruction of a pulse that meets a user set threshold. What we see on the display bears little resemblance to the digital waveform.
Much like a clock waveform, it matters little what it looks like providing it meets the required thresholds.

Zooming in on digital signals would mainly be used in connection with decoding, I expect, to make the decoded data readable when capturing longer messages.

Lemme think about running some tests in the next few days....although it's the weekend I do have a bit on.

Thank you! No rush -- as the scope is not released yet, there is no immediate purchasing decision to be made. (Unfortunately... )

[ebastler]

Tought about the "Zoom on digital data" limitation a bit more, after re-reading Performa01's summary (below). Since Zoom is available once the scope is stopped, maybe this is not a major limitation:

In Run mode -- assuming that messages are sent repeatedly -- I could always simply "zoom in" by switching to a faster time base and moving around via the horizontal delay, right? The only thing one loses is the visual orientation where one is currently looking within a longer message; but reading the decoded data should not be a problem.

Or am I missing something there?

Furthermore, both History and Zoom don't work when digital channels are enabled. Since most people want the MSO for decoding serial buses nowadays, this means you cannot decode long messages, because the decoder line at the bottom of the screen will become unreadable due to the lack of space. Using analog channels, you can easily deal with that by just entering zoom mode and take a closer look at the part of the message you're interested in. As it is now, when using digital channels you're almost limited to the capabilities of a Rigol 1000Z which only decodes the screen buffer anyway

The limitation described above only applies in run mode though. You can still capture a long message and then zoom in and navigate through the message while in stop mode. Also the list view works during Run even for very long messages, but that's rather pointless as you cannot closely examine the corresponding waveform – you might just as well use an LA instead.

[tautech]

Why would we need a zoom mode for digital channels when they are a reconstruction of a pulse that meets a user set threshold. What we see on the display bears little resemblance to the digital waveform.
Much like a clock waveform, it matters little what it looks like providing it meets the required thresholds.

Zooming in on digital signals would mainly be used in connection with decoding, I expect, to make the decoded data readable when capturing longer messages.

Oh, a faster timebase setting is no problem, you can set to whatever you like.
By Zoom, I was thinking a split screen zoom. 

[Performa01]

In Run mode -- assuming that messages are sent repeatedly -- I could always simply "zoom in" by switching to a faster time base and moving around via the horizontal delay, right? The only thing one loses is the visual orientation where one is currently looking within a longer message; but reading the decoded data should not be a problem.

Or am I missing something there?

Yes, you are. What you describe will not work for long messages that use protocols with certain start/stop conditions. If you have e.g. a long I2C message and you shorten the acquisition so that you only see a part of it - and the start condition is truncated - then the decoders won't work.
It will not be a problem for UART, as long as the acquired record includes at least one full character.

In general, it is not so much about zooming into a digital signal, which is indeed just a far cry from the real signal shape, but you might want to inspect some corresponding analog waveform sometimes. With digital channels activated when using the SLA1016, zoom doesn't work at all, neither for analog nor digital channels. And then there's the problem that you can read the messages only in the list window, but not directly below the signal.

As I've stated in some old posting, the SLA1016 is a fully independent acquisition machine with its own trigger mechanism, that is somehow synced to the DSO acquisition. Therefore I don't expect anything could have changed by now. LeCroy happened to have a similar soultion somewhere in the past, and it received equally little love by the users...

[rf-loop]

Split window zoom is not possible when digital inputs are on.
Digital channels can not use for next triggers: Pattern (least now) and then of course not for Runt, Slope, Video, Window because signals have only two states.
Digital channels can use for Edge, Pulse, Interval, Dropout and Serial.
Analog and Digital serial decoding: Mixed analog and digital decoding is not supported. (signals must be from only digital or only analog, not mixed)

Sad that there is (as usually in most of these kind of instruments) also only two states 1 and 0. But undefined state is missing because we can set only one threshold level. or other parameters.  So digital channels can not use for real analysis. Real circuit may decode or other way behave different than this kind of simplified "LA" displays.

[ebastler]

What you describe will not work for long messages that use protocols with certain start/stop conditions. If you have e.g. a long I2C message and you shorten the acquisition so that you only see a part of it - and the start condition is truncated - then the decoders won't work.

Just coming back from a little bike ride, and that thought had occurred to me somewhere along the way. Thanks for confirming my suspicion -- that is disappointing indeed. Essentially means that scopes with the SLA1016 don't perform any better (in Run mode) than Rigols's DS1054Z, which decodes data from the screen only.

But you can still use Zoom mode (and get proper decoding) when the scope is in Stop mode, if I understood your 2018 post correctly, right? That would probably cover most use cases.

As I've stated in some old posting, the SLA1016 is a fully independent acquisition machine with its own trigger mechanism, that is somehow synced to the DSO acquisition. Therefore I don't expect anything could have changed by now. LeCroy happened to have a similar soultion somewhere in the past, and it received equally little love by the users...

As stated a few posts ago, I can understand that there will be limitations to the triggering capability which are probably unavoidable. But Zoom and Decode happen entirely within the scope, and should work no matter where the data were acquired? So maybe the SLA1016 needs a little more love from Siglent's software developers...

[Performa01]

As stated a few posts ago, I can understand that there will be limitations to the triggering capability which are probably unavoidable. But Zoom and Decode happen entirely within the scope, and should work no matter where the data were acquired? So maybe the SLA1016 needs a little more love from Siglent's software developers...

It might appear that way at a first glance and in theory, but for the real product there are some more considerations.

Since the SLA1016 is an autonomous acquisition unit, it is utilized pretty much like a good USB scope (e.g. Picoscope): only the already decimated screen data are transferred from the external device to the host (which is the DSO in this case). So there is just no data to further zoom in.

Yes, of course we could have a firmware change to always transfer the full data buffer content, which could be up to 28 MB. I don't know what the maximum transfer capacity of that "S-Bus" is, but if it's anything like USB2, then we would only get one single frame per second as the worst case.

[ebastler]

Since the SLA1016 is an autonomous acquisition unit, it is utilized pretty much like a good USB scope (e.g. Picoscope): only the already decimated screen data are transferred from the external device to the host (which is the DSO in this case). So there is just no data to further zoom in.

That makes sense, thank you!

So maybe the SDS1000X HD will not be the right scope for me after all. I certainly spend more time on digital than analog systems and was looking forward to upgrading to MSO capability. (But a less noisy front end than in my current DS1054Z would be nice too...) Ah, decisions... 

[2N3055]

Since the SLA1016 is an autonomous acquisition unit, it is utilized pretty much like a good USB scope (e.g. Picoscope): only the already decimated screen data are transferred from the external device to the host (which is the DSO in this case). So there is just no data to further zoom in.

That makes sense, thank you!

So maybe the SDS1000X HD will not be the right scope for me after all. I certainly spend more time on digital than analog systems and was looking forward to upgrading to MSO capability. (But a less noisy front end than in my current DS1054Z would be nice too...) Ah, decisions... 

If that is so, then from Siglent SDS2000X Plus would be a good match for you. It is 8 bit but low noise and 500uV/div real sensitivity on analog and full (and fast) implementation of MSO.

[Martin72]

Consent.
Buy (100Mhz), "improve" (500Mhz, MSO, etc) and should the day come when the scope is no longer sufficient, there should already have been one or two successors.

[ebastler]

Thank you both. Yes, the SDS2104X plus is on my "shortlist", and is leading the pack there. (The SDS1000X HD and Rigol's MSO5074 and DHO914S are the other contenders.)

Unfortunately it is the most expensive one on the list too -- ah well, I guess market pricing kind of works...

[Warhawk]

ebastler, I am not sure if this helps but I was in the same situation two weeks ago. I decided for the SDS2000X+. The fact that LeCroy sells it with their logo gives me confidence that it is not bad. I originally thought that I would wait for SDS1000X but the logic analyzer limitations changed my mind. I did not want to make compromises on that.
I too considered the DHO914S because of the bode plot but it is too small for my eyesight. Additionally, there are standard #justrigolthings . The 800 series is financially attractive but 1Mpts/ch is too low.

tl;dr; I have SDS2104x+ on my desk und ich bin ein sehr zufriedener Bastler. . 

I am going for the hack and want to make the logic analyzer pod myself using the old HP cable. I have extras. One can be yours.

[KungFuJosh]

I am going for the hack and want to make the logic analyzer pod myself using the old HP cable. I have extras. One can be yours.

Alternatively, there is a low cost DIY version of the probe here as well: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-analyzer-probe-and-pods-for-siglent-scopes/

I had the mediocre version of that from fleabay, and it worked fine for all the batronix demo board stuff. I wound up having the correct boards made, and I'll eventually make the better version true to the project.

[Warhawk]

I am going for the hack and want to make the logic analyzer pod myself using the old HP cable. I have extras. One can be yours.

Alternatively, there is a low cost DIY version of the probe here as well: https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/diy-logic-analyzer-probe-and-pods-for-siglent-scopes/

I had the mediocre version of that from fleabay, and it worked fine for all the batronix demo board stuff. I wound up having the correct boards made, and I'll eventually make the better version true to the project.

I am aware of the thread. Thank you. This is the place where I somewhere found the version for the HP logic cables.

[ebastler]

Many thanks, Warhawk and KungFuJosh!

Regarding the LA probe, Siglent are currently enticing new buyers of the SDS2000X plus with that bundle offer... Being "legal" on pretty much all options (except for higher bandwidth) and getting the very nice LA probe is tempting. I would prefer if they had a special offer on the price of the base unit instead -- but from a marketing perspective I can see that they don't want to let that price degrade if they can avoid it.

[KungFuJosh]

Many thanks, Warhawk and KungFuJosh!

Regarding the LA probe, Siglent are currently enticing new buyers of the SDS2000X plus with that bundle offer... Being "legal" on pretty much all options (except for higher bandwidth) and getting the very nice LA probe is tempting. I would prefer if they had a special offer on the price of the base unit instead -- but from a marketing perspective I can see that they don't want to let that price degrade if they can avoid it.

Not that long ago they had the SDS2104XP on sale for $999. I dunno if they'll do it again for Black Friday, but it might be worth the wait.

[ebastler]

Not that long ago they had the SDS2104XP on sale for $999. I dunno if they'll do it again for Black Friday, but it might be worth the wait.

Oh, thanks! I am not sure whether the European Siglent dealers do Blackfriday deals, but will keep an eye out for these; I am in no rush. (Will need to pretend that no purchase happened until Christmas anyway...  )

[mwb1100]

Not that long ago they had the SDS2104XP on sale for $999. I dunno if they'll do it again for Black Friday, but it might be worth the wait.

It was pretty much exactly one year ago (ended on 31 Dec 2022 if I remember right). And not only was the scope itself on sale, but they had the bundle deal with LA going too.  It was a very hard deal to resist, but I did somehow.  If they threw that one-two punch again, I'm not sure I'd be able to help myself...

[tautech]

Not that long ago they had the SDS2104XP on sale for $999. I dunno if they'll do it again for Black Friday, but it might be worth the wait.

It was pretty much exactly one year ago (ended on 31 Dec 2022 if I remember right). And not only was the scope itself on sale, but they had the bundle deal with LA going too.  It was a very hard deal to resist, but I did somehow.  If they threw that one-two punch again, I'm not sure I'd be able to help myself...

Yeah that was a hot deal for just 3 months but there's several Siglent bundle deals and/or price reductions happening currently.
Competition is good.

[Warhawk]

Not that long ago they had the SDS2104XP on sale for $999. I dunno if they'll do it again for Black Friday, but it might be worth the wait.

Oh, thanks! I am not sure whether the European Siglent dealers do Blackfriday deals, but will keep an eye out for these; I am in no rush. (Will need to pretend that no purchase happened until Christmas anyway...  )

I was also thinking about waiting for any kind of promotion. However, I was afraid that units may be not on stock because of Christmas. And I wanted it. :-)
Bought it from Batronix and paid 1426 Eur. Please note that the logic pod and options are in promotion but for extra money. I did not want to pay that much.

PS: It is difficult not to love that scope.

[asmi]

So maybe the SDS1000X HD will not be the right scope for me after all. I certainly spend more time on digital than analog systems and was looking forward to upgrading to MSO capability. (But a less noisy front end than in my current DS1054Z would be nice too...) Ah, decisions... 

If LA is so important to you, I'd recommend to consider buying a decent dedicated PC-based one instead of MSO. They tend to be more convenient to work with and have more features than whatever is built-into MSO. And if you will ever want to see analog and digital captures correlated by timing, a lot of LAs have a trigger input and output to achieve just that, though in ~7 years of owning an MSO I never actually needed that - but maybe your needs are different.

[Antonio90]

Not that long ago they had the SDS2104XP on sale for $999. I dunno if they'll do it again for Black Friday, but it might be worth the wait.

Oh, thanks! I am not sure whether the European Siglent dealers do Blackfriday deals, but will keep an eye out for these; I am in no rush. (Will need to pretend that no purchase happened until Christmas anyway...  )

Batterfly has a 10% off on everything, whether it already has discounts/bundles or not. That's 120€/146€ on the SDS2000X+ depending on the bundle.
This might be a stupid idea, but for the price of the Siglent you can get both the MSO5000 and the DHO800 and hack them both. If you DIY the logic probes, you get both the reduced noise and dynamic range and the Mixed domain stuff.

I don't think I'll need MSO capabilities, so I guess I'll wait for the 1000X-HD and decide based on price.

[ebastler]

Batterfly has a 10% off on everything, whether it already has discounts/bundles or not. That's 120€/146€ on the SDS2000X+ depending
on the bundle.

Thanks for the hint! That is a promising, and surprisingly early, start into the season. With Batronix' "We will match the best price" promise, there's a second player at the table, and one that is local to me. Let's see whether any other European dealers want to join the Black Friday/Week/November game...

This might be a stupid idea, but for the price of the Siglent you can get both the MSO5000 and the DHO800 and hack them both. If you DIY the logic probes, you get both the reduced noise and dynamic range and the Mixed domain stuff.

I am not sure whether you can propose that in a Siglent thread. 

Having one scope with very high sampling rate and full 4-channel controls, and another one which is cute and portable, is tempting. But then there would be other compromises vs. the SDS2104X+. Which, by the way, just came out as a bit less noisy than the DHO800 in a quick comparison in a parallel thread. [Edit: That's when using the X+ in 10-bit high-res mode.]

Maybe most importantly: I think the argument "I actually want two scopes for Christmas" would be a difficult sell... And together they would cost 100€ more vs. the SDS2104X+ price, right, (net prices, logic probes excluded in either case)?

[Martin72]

Yes, almost 120€ more (incl. VAT) at least at Batronix.
If I were still an MSO5000 owner, buying the DHO804 would indeed be worth considering.
I still think the MSO is the best behind the SDS2104Xplus and if you can't/won't spend almost 400€ more, then that would be the second tip.
But if I don't have that yet, I wouldn't buy 2 scopes and still not get the full quality of the SDS2104X+.

[Antonio90]

It seems I cannot add. Yeah, it's 99 more (899+399), unless you get the 8072, as you already have probes from the DHO800.

If you have little bench space but enough close storage space, the 800 with a VESA mount is a nice daily driver, and the MSO5000 can come out when needed. But yeah, one scope is enough, especially if it's better.

[MathWizard]

So is the 1000X HD is like 12-bit Vertical res. version of the sds1000x-e or is it more like the sds2000x+ series ? I just know the price ranges. The sds5000x+ series is over $4k CAD, and the sds2000xHD start up around that, so isn't that the HD version of the 2000x+ ?

Then what's the new 800x HD series, ? if I read TauTech say it's more like the 1000x-e ? I guess named like the Rigol too.

I'd love to own a 2000x HD, maybe if I save up for a couple of years I could justify it.

[Wong]

The price of SDS1204X HD has been reduced, and the current price is 6780 RMB (950 USD)

[2N3055]

So is the 1000X HD is like 12-bit Vertical res. version of the sds1000x-e or is it more like the sds2000x+ series ? I just know the price ranges. The sds5000x+ series is over $4k CAD, and the sds2000xHD start up around that, so isn't that the HD version of the 2000x+ ?

Then what's the new 800x HD series, ? if I read TauTech say it's more like the 1000x-e ? I guess named like the Rigol too.

I'd love to own a 2000x HD, maybe if I save up for a couple of years I could justify it.

SDS2000X HD is not 12 bit version of 2000X+.

SDS2000X HD is new generation 10" touch scope from same generation as SDS6000A.

SDS1000X HD will be very similar to SDS2000X HD with slightly less sampling rate, memory and no zone trigger. Same 10" screen, and absolutely same form factor.

SDS800X HD will be a downsized version of SDS1000X HD. Smaller screen and few things less. Not sure exactly what until datasheet is officially published. It will be same size as SDS1000X-E but that is only thing in common. SDS800X HD is more similar to SDS6000A than to SDS1000X-E.

[ebastler]

SDS1000X HD will be very similar to SDS2000X HD with slightly less sampling rate, memory and no zone trigger. Same 10" screen, and absolutely same form factor.

SDS800X HD will be a downsized version of SDS1000X HD. Smaller screen and few things less. Not sure exactly what until datasheet is officially published. It will be same size as SDS1000X-E but that is only thing in common. SDS800X HD is more similar to SDS6000A than to SDS1000X-E.

Also, no internal AWG and logic analyser in the 1000X HD and 800X HD models, apparently -- but the HDMI-shaped connector for a somewhat limited external logic analyser, and the ability to control external AWGs for Bode plotting.

[Martin72]

Better than having nothing at all.

[ebastler]

Better than having nothing at all.

Sure. On both counts the Siglents are ahead of the Rigol DHO1000 and 800, respectively. The DHO900 is the only Rigol model which can offer LA and AWG functionality in the entry-level 12-bit space.

Heck, I was about to write that in the above post, but thought it would be redundant and not really belong into a Siglent thread. But had overlooked the sensivities around this topic. 

[2N3055]

Better than having nothing at all.

Sure. On both counts the Siglents are ahead of the Rigol DHO1000 and 800, respectively. The DHO900 is the only Rigol model which can offer LA and AWG functionality in the entry-level 12-bit space.

Heck, I was about to write that in the above post, but thought it would be redundant and not really belong into a Siglent thread. But had overlooked the sensivities around this topic. 

I always forget about internal AWGs. Sorry.

[Performa01]

I always forget about internal AWGs. Sorry.

Sure - probably because not many professionals will ever use one in a lab...

[rf-loop]

The price of SDS1204X HD has been reduced, and the current price is 6780 RMB (950 USD)

Interesting is this (only) 100 RMB step between models.  (in 天淘寶)
SDS1074X  6580 RMB
SDS1104X  6680 RMB
SDS1204X  6780 RMB

[Antonio90]

If the price stays on its way to the west, I'll get one.

[ebastler]

Interesting is this (only) 100 RMB step between models.  (in 天淘寶)
SDS1074X  6580 RMB
SDS1104X  6680 RMB
SDS1204X  6780 RMB

Hmm. Not according to Siglents pricing at https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000x-hd/#pro_model:

SDS1074X HD   6780 RMB
SDS1104X HD   9080 RMB
SDS1204X HD 11080 RMB

Your prices look better.   Where did you get them from?

[tszaboo]

Better than having nothing at all.

The USB remote control to external AWG is a killer feature IMHO. If they can really get the price down by not having the internal hardware, I would much rather have an extra box, (that can be unlocked to 60MHz and) has higher VPP and better specs than an internal AWG. So the scope would need to be, 250-300EUR cheaper than competing products for this to make sense.
I'm on the fence about the LA. On one hand, the external probe from Siglent is a bit more expensive than their passive part, on the other hand it's better hardware. I think a cheap 8 channel probe in the lineup would be nice. We rarely use more than 4 LA channels, most communication protocols are serial nowadays.

[rf-loop]

Interesting is this (only) 100 RMB step between models.  (in 天淘寶)
SDS1074X  6580 RMB
SDS1104X  6680 RMB
SDS1204X  6780 RMB

Hmm. Not according to Siglents pricing at https://www.siglent.com/products-overview/sds1000x-hd/#pro_model:

SDS1074X HD   6780 RMB
SDS1104X HD   9080 RMB
SDS1204X HD 11080 RMB

Your prices look better.   Where did you get them from?

(in 天淘寶)  = Taobao/Tmall  and it was really surprice...
I need to investigate the matter a little more when I have time to see if there is some hidden trick in the Taobao price from this seller.

https://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?abbucket=14&id=714215504152&ns=1&spm=a21n57.1.0.0.4b92523cWkIYKz&skuId=5169282266176

[ebastler]

(in 天淘寶)  = Taobao  and it was really surprice...
I need to investigate the matter a little more when I have time to see if there is some hidden trick in the Taobao price from this seller.

Are these the original SDS1000X HD models maybe, with only 1 GSa/s? Unloading stock which is now outdated?

[Veteran68]

I'd prefer NOT having internal AWG. And while there can be some use in having an internal LA that can be viewed alongside time domain waveform displays for certain diagnostic purposes, I don't find it to be all that common a use-case in the real world. I'd rather have my external AWGs and LAs.

[Antonio90]

(in 天淘寶)  = Taobao  and it was really surprice...
I need to investigate the matter a little more when I have time to see if there is some hidden trick in the Taobao price from this seller.

Are these the original SDS1000X HD models maybe, with only 1 GSa/s? Unloading stock which is now outdated?

The images are for the updated model, but you are right, there is "1G" something in the title. If it's the old model the price is no longer that good TBH.

[rf-loop]

(in 天淘寶)  = Taobao  and it was really surprice...
I need to investigate the matter a little more when I have time to see if there is some hidden trick in the Taobao price from this seller.

Are these the original SDS1000X HD models maybe, with only 1 GSa/s? Unloading stock which is now outdated?

Look my previous msg added image and link... and in same side scrolling bit more down...
(also old version was grey...)

But in Taobao/Tmall there need be careful...  If I am now in China it is easy to contact seller and ask what is real truth... and as we know... inside China if you buy from these places... if not like what you get... just return and get money back. There customer protection works really well if look even bit something background about seller before click and pay. 

ETA: And investigated more. This image is just from same Siglent Flagship store in Tmall...   
If look Siglent official China  site there is direct link to just this store in Tmall (somehow part of Taobao)
But still... this price is too good to be true... there is now something... I have not tried to pay because I do not want login to my Taobao account  so that I can go to final steps for buy and then stop just before confirm payment

Also next image... when keep mouse over selection it give this pop-up and there can see it is 2G version

[ebastler]

Anyone here brave enough to order one of these? (Ideally someone based in China, I guess, to avoid the hassle of international shipping, duties, and potential return shipping...)

[tszaboo]

I'd prefer NOT having internal AWG. And while there can be some use in having an internal LA that can be viewed alongside time domain waveform displays for certain diagnostic purposes, I don't find it to be all that common a use-case in the real world. I'd rather have my external AWGs and LAs.

LA is very much needed for mixed signal system debugging, especially if it has multiplexed inputs. How do you debug an SPI ADC with multiple inputs?
AWG is used for for bode plot it needs to be connected into the scope, because aint nobody has time to script that.
Both of these functions are very much needed on a scope. Or connected to a scope.

[2N3055]

I'd prefer NOT having internal AWG. And while there can be some use in having an internal LA that can be viewed alongside time domain waveform displays for certain diagnostic purposes, I don't find it to be all that common a use-case in the real world. I'd rather have my external AWGs and LAs.

LA is very much needed for mixed signal system debugging, especially if it has multiplexed inputs. How do you debug an SPI ADC with multiple inputs?
AWG is used for for bode plot it needs to be connected into the scope, because aint nobody has time to script that.
Both of these functions are very much needed on a scope. Or connected to a scope.

Siglent scopes with Bode support pretty much all standalone Siglent AWG for Bode. It is integrated very well and simply works.
I use external SDG6000X even with SDS2000X HD that has internal gen.

[Veteran68]

For bode plots I just need to be able to integrate an external AWG.

Again, I'd argue that most people doing LA work (myself included) are strictly digital and don't often live in the mixed-signal world. Those that do, obviously need the capability. I just think a lot of us (arguably? most of us) here don't while we still like to wring our hands over the possibility of needing it one day.

I'll be the first one to admit that I've overspent on a lot of things (not just T&M gear) thinking that I'll use it "one day." I also neither confirm nor deny that I still have things in the factory box years later that was never used for any purpose, much less that exceptional "what if" purpose. I'm very good at talking myself into needing something that I really don't.

[tszaboo]

I'd prefer NOT having internal AWG. And while there can be some use in having an internal LA that can be viewed alongside time domain waveform displays for certain diagnostic purposes, I don't find it to be all that common a use-case in the real world. I'd rather have my external AWGs and LAs.

LA is very much needed for mixed signal system debugging, especially if it has multiplexed inputs. How do you debug an SPI ADC with multiple inputs?
AWG is used for for bode plot it needs to be connected into the scope, because aint nobody has time to script that.
Both of these functions are very much needed on a scope. Or connected to a scope.

Siglent scopes with Bode support pretty much all standalone Siglent AWG for Bode. It is integrated very well and simply works.
I use external SDG6000X even with SDS2000X HD that has internal gen.

Thanks I know, I wrote about this maybe 5 post ago...
After reading about it actually changed my mind about the built in AWG, since it's a really neat feature.

[ebastler]

Both of these functions are very much needed on a scope. Or connected to a scope.

That might depend just a wee bit on what the user wants to do with his scope? 

[Martin72]

I have never been interested in the internal generators because they are simply too limited.
I bought an SDG1032X for my SDS2104Xplus back then and an SDG2042X (2122X, hehe) for my current 2504X HD.

[tszaboo]

Both of these functions are very much needed on a scope. Or connected to a scope.

That might depend just a wee bit on what the user wants to do with his scope? 

Yes, I'm sure there are some people only need one channel, to connect a microphone to it and sing the Las Ketchup song.

For bode plots I just need to be able to integrate an external AWG.

Again, I'd argue that most people doing LA work (myself included) are strictly digital and don't often live in the mixed-signal world. Those that do, obviously need the capability. I just think a lot of us (arguably? most of us) here don't while we still like to wring our hands over the possibility of needing it one day.

I'll be the first one to admit that I've overspent on a lot of things (not just T&M gear) thinking that I'll use it "one day." I also neither confirm nor deny that I still have things in the factory box years later that was never used for any purpose, much less that exceptional "what if" purpose. I'm very good at talking myself into needing something that I really don't.

I've never seen a EE say, they prefer not having a LA on a scope. Other disciplines, yes.

[tszaboo]

I have never been interested in the internal generators because they are simply too limited.
I bought an SDG1032X for my SDS2104Xplus back then and an SDG2042X (2122X, hehe) for my current 2504X HD.

Yeah, so the thing is, some of us has a limited budget for a home lab.

[Martin72]

I've never seen a EE say, they prefer not having a LA on a scope. Other disciplines, yes.

In the 80s/90s we (company i´m working for) used dozens of logic ICs in our circuits, so a logic analyzer made sense.
Today it´s all integrated in a PLD or FPGA.

[tv84]

Since the 1000X HD also has these designations inside:

Code: [Select]

SDS102X SDS102E SDS202E
SDS104X SDS104E SDS204E
SDS105X SDS105E SDS205E
SDS106X SDS106E SDS206E
SDS107X SDS107E SDS207E
SDS110X SDS110E SDS210E
SDS115X SDS115E SDS215E
SDS120X SDS120E SDS220E
SDS125X SDS125E SDS225E
SDS130X SDS130E       
SDS135X         SDS235E
SDS150X               
SDS175X               
SDS1100X               
SDS1200X               
SDS1300X               
SDS1400X               

and the fact that the 800X HD FW might be very similar, maybe the conspiracy theory that the 800X HD wasn't supposed to be "800" has some credit... 

[Martin72]

It would have been more "correct" to call the 800X HD 1000X HD, because the current 1000 series are small 7" scopes.
But they couldn't use 2000X HD for the cheaper 10" 12 bit model because that already exists.
So 1000X HD.
And then they must have come up with the idea of making another 12-bit scope with a 7" display...

[tszaboo]

I've never seen a EE say, they prefer not having a LA on a scope. Other disciplines, yes.

In the 80s/90s we (company i´m working for) used dozens of logic ICs in our circuits, so a logic analyzer made sense.
Today it´s all integrated in a PLD or FPGA.

Right, and most designs that I'm working on has ADCs/DACs on it, that need to be verified/debugged. Some of them has more than 10 inputs, and built in excitation current sources, and SPI interface, 100 page long datasheet. How do you verify that without a LA? Different people work on different projects, maybe we shouldn't be narrow minded that everyone has the same needs?
And I give you a very good reason why a built in basic AWG is useful on a professional environment: It's one less instrument that need to be sent out for calibration. If I have a the need for a basic AWG, like the SDS1000, I would spend it's price on calibration basically every year.

[Martin72]

We don't calibrate our generators, we stopped doing that at some point.
We check this with our calibrated scopes every time a generator is involved in a measurement.

[tv84]

After a second look at the 1000X HD app, these Product Types are explicitly referenced inside:

Code: [Select]

03 - SDS2000HSR       <- 5000X
08 - SDS2000X_PLUS
10 - Zodiac
13 - EVA              <- 1000X HD
14 - ZodiacPlus       <- 6000X
15 - ATOM             <- 2000X HD
17 - LP (Low Profile) <- 6000L
18 - NeZha            <- 7000A
19 - SDS3000X HD
Can't see nothing explicit for 800X HD...

[tautech]

After a second look at the 1000X HD app, these Product Types are explicitly referenced inside:

Code: [Select]

03 - SDS2000HSR       <- 5000X
08 - SDS2000X_PLUS
10 - Zodiac
13 - EVA              <- 1000X HD
14 - ZodiacPlus       <- 6000X
15 - ATOM             <- 2000X HD
17 - LP (Low Profile) <- 6000L
18 - NeZha            <- 7000A
19 - SDS3000X HD
Can't see nothing explicit for 800X HD...

EVA Minor ? 

[tv84]

EVA Minor ? 

Eva...

Wally...

[thm_w]

But in Taobao/Tmall there need be careful...  If I am now in China it is easy to contact seller and ask what is real truth... and as we know... inside China if you buy from these places... if not like what you get... just return and get money back. There customer protection works really well if look even bit something background about seller before click and pay. 

Yeah, but I think these prices are real (the ones in the photos) not the different models for the same price. Obviously that part makes no sense, and the seller doesn't understand how to setup the pricing or doesn't care. So don't buy blindly or you'll end up with a 2CH model. https://www.taobao.com/list/item/714215504152.htm

SDS1072X HD (2CH 2G) is 4122 yuan ($582) and the SDS1074X HD is 6580 yuan ($930) as mentioned above. Introductory pricing, then the price will go up ~$100 or so, supposedly.

If they can do <$1,100 for the SDS1074XHD in western market its a solid price point.


You can see the reviews some have recently purchased the 2G model in November, quotes from them:

"The 10.1-inch large touch screen, combined with mouse control, is easy to operate. I basically mastered it after using it for one night. 12bit vertical resolution with high precision. The machine is high-end and elegant."
"The screen is clear and bright, easy on the eyes, and the noise is low. Overall, I am very satisfied with the use. I am getting familiar with many functions, and it is simple to use."
"Beautiful, at this price, very good. The disadvantage is that the UI is a bit laggy. There's nothing wrong with it considering the price."

[tautech]

If they can do <$1,100 for the SDS1074XHD in western market its a solid price point.

My English datasheet shows only 100 & 200 MHz models coming to the west. 

[thm_w]

I can see a lot of grey market purchasing happening to save that ~$350 difference between models.

[tautech]

I can see a lot of grey market purchasing happening to save that ~$350 difference between models.

Only if China sellers are prepared to risk their relationship with Siglent.
Some are China only models.

[Bad_Driver]

This topic is called „Siglent SDS 1000X HD coming“.
Now it‘s the week before Xmas and no SDS1kx HD was seen in Europe. Any news regarding availability?
The Rigol promo is still valid….. but all my gear is from Siglent.

https://www.rigol.eu/NEWS/news/58.html

Merry Christmas to all of you and a Happy New Year!

[Antonio90]

AFAIK, the SDS1000X HD won't come before the Rigol promo ends.
We don't know pricing, but if the SDS2000X+ chinese prices are a good indicator, we could expect a western price of around 900+VAT for the 4-channel 100 MHz model.
The pricing changed recently in china I think, and the 70 and 100 MHz models are now closer in price.
In any case, even though it is generally accepted that either the 800HD or the 1000HD (or both) will come on Q1 2024, there is no official announcement nor proof about this.

Merry Christmas to you too!

[tv84]

Sorry for the lazyness (it was a tiring year...  ) but can someone list the main differences between the (announced) 1000X HD and the 2000X HD?

[tv84]

Sorry for the lazyness (it was a tiring year...  ) but can someone list the main differences between the (announced) 1000X HD and the 2000X HD?

Oh, the comparison is here.

So, the biggest difference it seems is the limitation of the BW (in the 1000X HD it only goes up to 200MHz).

Then that perfectly explains the (hypothesized) pricing of the 1000X HD as half the 2000X HD: I have no doubt that Siglent already incorporates in the 2104X HD price the touch of the non-public keygen.

[2N3055]

Sorry for the lazyness (it was a tiring year...  ) but can someone list the main differences between the (announced) 1000X HD and the 2000X HD?

You of all people need not to apologize for being lazy... 

I would be glad to chime in..

major differences:

- Less max BW : 200Mhz
- Less Sampling: rate 2/1/0.5 GS/s
- less memory: 100/50/25 Mpts/ch
- no zone trigger
- no built in MSO
- no built in AWG
- less serial bus decodes (but still CAN FD for instance)

that's mostly it... Maybe I missed some detail...

EDIT:

Yeah you were quicker... 


EDIT EDIT:

That is old comparison.
SDSD1000X HD that will be relased is more powerful version and also SDS2000X HD gained more features in meantime..

[baldurn]

Then that perfectly explains the (hypothesized) pricing of the 1000X HD as half the 2000X HD: I have no doubt that Siglent already incorporates in the 2104X HD price the touch of the non-public keygen.

I understand that 800X HD and 1000X HD can be unlocked by the public keygen. That has to mean they want those two to be hackable. Comparably I expect far fewer people will figure out how to visit Eevblog and get help with the 2104X HD.

The case of making entry level scopes hackable on purpose is an interesting one. They expect most if not all private citizens to pay the cheapest price and then upgrade. But many companies, schools and institutions will not allow hacking equipment and might chose to pay for the upgrades. That way they can effectively have two prices with rabate to the hobby crowd.

Question is, are they unhappy about the 2104X HD hack? Since they made it harder, they might not want that one to be hackable. On the other hand, the current situation with only a restricted number of hacked scopes might still be beneficial for them.

[ebastler]

With the SDS1000X HD now drawing closer for us Europeans, I'm looking at the spec sheet (again...), wondering whether I should upgrade from my DHO1074. One little detail I was wondering about, since I have just used that feature in a set of measurements:

Is it possible to filter the signal (lowpass, highpass, bandpass), either via a Math operation or via acquisition settings? I could not find that in the 1000X HD specs or in the 2000X HD manual. Thanks!

[Martin72]

Hi,

Digital filters are available for the 2000X HD and higher in the math functions.
This has been added via a firmware update, but the manual has not yet been revised accordingly.
If I'm not mistaken, this is also the case with the new 1000X HD revision, at least the term "filter" is translated from the Chinese data sheet under math.
(Edit: when translating a part with deepl, better let´s wait for the official english datasheet)

[tautech]

Rob,
I had understood 2N3055 to mean that there is no MSO option for the 1000X HD, so the scope is not a MSO.

This only means the MSO option is not fully inbuilt. MSO/LA capabilities works just fine with my SDS1204X HD and the SLA1016 LA module.
It connects to the Sbus port just the same as X-E models.


Later when other tasks are finished I'll post a MSO/LA screenshot.

Digital mode.
Pre-release scope HW and SW ! SW enhancements requested since last beta FW release.
Currently available SLA1016 LA module with latest FW.
Just half of the 16 channels available displayed. Each channel can be individually toggled ON or OFF or as a group of 8.

SLA1016 improvements are ongoing with tab colors that now match the probe leads and support for SDS800X HD too.

[tautech]

OP updated with western release datasheet and model types that will be available.

[Performa01]

Unknown release date..........now is Q1 2024.

1 GSa/s 12 bit designs of 100MHz and 200MHz with 2 and 4ch versions

Thankfully, SDS1000X HD will have 2 GSa/s max. sample rate.

[christopher.robot]

Thank you for this thread!  I was days from pulling the trigger on a SDS2104X HD - but this certainly gives me pause. 

I slapped together a quick at-a-glance feature comparison, based on the available datasheets:



Really excited to see what price-point this comes in at.

Edit: Fixed optional/std protocols and newer functionality under-reported in outdated datasheet.

[Martin72]

The data sheet for the 2000X HD is out of date.
It now also has 4 math channels and digital filters.
Additionally 4 memory channels and extended memory management.
In addition, ERES and Average are not only available as math but also hardware-accelerated as acquisition mode.
The LA part is implemented in contrast to the 1000X HD.

[christopher.robot]

The data sheet for the 2000X HD is out of date.
It now also has 4 math channels and digital filters.
Additionally 4 memory channels and extended memory management.
In addition, ERES and Average are not only available as math but also hardware-accelerated as acquisition mode.
The LA part is implemented in contrast to the 1000X HD.

heh, I was worried about something like that.  I kinda assumed all the 'software implemented' components (like protocol decoding) would be the same across the two platforms, but I didn't want to include speculation.  I'll scour for a newer datasheet, if one is available, but I'll update the table now based on your input.  Thanks!

[tautech]

I'll scour for a newer datasheet, if one is available, but I'll update the table now based on your input.

The SDS1000X HD datasheet you have linked is the correct/current version and also linked in the OP.

I'll drop a reminder to Siglent to update the SDS2000X HD datasheet.

[Performa01]

I slapped together a quick at-a-glance feature comparison, based on the available datasheets:

Well, the differences still appear not that big from your table, because even obvious features like twice the sample rate and memory (and consequently higher bandwidth, faster peak detect and lower trigger jitter) in the SDS2000X HD are missing.

But also some less obvious things:
+ Memory Traces only in SDS2000X HD
+ Trigger Holdoff by Events only in SDS2000
+ Zone Trigger only in SDS2000
+ Histograms only in SDS2000
+ Customizable trace colors and RGB-LEDs in the front panel only in SDS2000

+ Digital Inputs: Fully integrated solution in the SDS2000.

This has the following disadvantages for SDS800/1000X HD with regard to digital inputs:
•   Since SLA1016 incorporates a complete SOC and local memory, it cannot be cheap even though the probe head and the grabbers leave a cheap impression.
•   Mixed analog / digital pattern trigger is not possible.
•   Zoom mode cannot be used as soon as digital channels are enabled.
•   History doesn’t work either when digital channels are activated.

[Martin72]

+ Customizable trace colors and RGB-LEDs in the front panel only in SDS2000

It took me almost a year to notice that the color of the keys had also changed.
Really cool.

[kripton2035]

+ Zone Trigger only in SDS2000

that is a feature I cannot live without ...

[Mortymore]

Siglent SDS1000X-HD manual (source siglent.eu)

[Mortymore]

Siglent SDS1000X-HD programming guide EN11F, the same for SDS800X-HD (source siglent.eu)

[tautech]

Released to western markets today.
OP updated with links to webpages.

PS
I could announce SDS3000X HD is also released today in the dedicated thread I started for it however it seems moderators deemed it did not need its own thread and it can no longer be found. 

Please report this post to Mods asking for the SDS3000X HD thread to be resurrected.

[Martin72]

I could announce SDS3000X HD is also released today in the dedicated thread I started for it however it seems moderators deemed it did not need its own thread and it can no longer be found.

There are heaps of Rigol DHO threads, one for every fart....

[BillyO]

Perhaps a slight Rigol bias on EEVblog?

[BreakingOhmsLaw]

Ordered a 1204X-HD today.
Siglent.eu did not have the option for the logic analyzer listed yet, but I've contacted them and the told me that the list price for the liscense key + SLA1016 hardware is €443 +VAT.

[Martin72]

Incidentally, that's something I still don't think is great.
SDS2104Xplus, SDS2104X HD and now the SDS3034X HD...
I was always one of the first and was always "punished" for it.
Because later there are the great promo campaigns, which I don't benefit from as a first-time buyer because they are always linked to a new purchase.
I think that's unfair, seriously.
Actually, it should be the other way around.

[core]

Incidentally, that's something I still don't think is great.
SDS2104Xplus, SDS2104X HD and now the SDS3034X HD...
I was always one of the first and was always "punished" for it.
Because later there are the great promo campaigns, which I don't benefit from as a first-time buyer because they are always linked to a new purchase.
I think that's unfair, seriously.
Actually, it should be the other way around.

This way, however, your opinions are unbiased.
It is just your opinion, even if it is subjective. Like many of us.
Some of us bought before we saw the device and found out for ourselves whether it was worth it or not.

Otherwise, Performa01 is a good example of a reviewer who provides dry technical information without any bias, even if he represents a particular manufacturer. It even points out weaknesses as well as causes and compromises that had to be made.

[Martin72]

Hmm?
Of course that's just my opinion, what else...

[Gabri74]

Does anyone know if there is any Italian distributor with the SDS1000X in stock ? I ordered one back in march with an estimated 4 week delivery time, but the just informed me that the scopes will not be on stock until mid june... So I had to cancel the order.
Thanks in advance :-D

[Antonio90]

Gabri74, everyone is in the same boat, I don't think cancelling the order was a good idea if that is the oscilloscope you want. Unless, of course, you need a 'scope now, in which case it will not be an italian bought SDS1000X-HD.

I don't think there is anyone with a 1000X-HD in stock in Europe. All of them are backordered AFAIK.
Maybe you will have some luck when the first batch arrives if there is any surplus from current orders.
In any case, if Batterfly doesn't have stock, I find it unlikely that any other italian distributor will have it.

[tautech]

Does anyone know if there is any Italian distributor with the SDS1000X in stock ? I ordered one back in march with an estimated 4 week delivery time, but the just informed me that the scopes will not be on stock until mid june... So I had to cancel the order.
Thanks in advance :-D

Take your pick:
Italy
Batter Fly s.r.l.
 Via Collodi, 7/a - 40012 Calderara di Reno (BO)
 +39 (0) 51 6468377
 www.batterfly.com
 info@batterfly.com

Italy
DELO Instrument
 Via Piemonte, 14 20090 Fizzonasco - Pieve E.(MI) - Italy
 +39 (0) 290 72 24 41
 www.delo.it
 sales@delo.it

Italy
Spin Electronics S.r.l.
 Via Flavio Gioia, 7 - 10040 Rivalta di Torino (To) Italy
 +39 (0)119 09 19 68
 www.spinelectronics.eu
 info@spin-it.com

[ebastler]

Does anyone know if there is any Italian distributor with the SDS1000X in stock ?

Take your pick: [...]

The bold text is the tricky part...

[Antonio90]

Yeah, even Taobao sellers have it on preorder. There seems to be ample stock of the older SDS1000X-HD with 1GS/s though.
I don't think anyone has it in stock.

[tautech]

Does anyone know if there is any Italian distributor with the SDS1000X in stock ?

Take your pick: [...]

The bold text is the tricky part...

Using a phone is not.

[Gabri74]

In any case, if Batterfly doesn't have stock, I find it unlikely that any other italian distributor will have it.

I did not mention from which seller I cancelled the order...   

[BillyO]

In any case, if Batterfly doesn't have stock, I find it unlikely that any other italian distributor will have it.

I did not mention from which seller I cancelled the order...   

There is stock in the US if you are desperate and want to pay the shipping/import charges.

[tautech]

Dave does a teardown, finds some surprises and seems confused about other stuff that is clearly stated in the datasheet.


Added to OP.