Test Equipment Anonymous (TEA) group therapy thread

[McBryce]

Another set of adaptors fell into my hands - at 15€ I would be perfectly happy if there were 3 new ones in it. Counting those bridge connectors, I think this will be more than fulfilled as far as I can see from the pictures.

I'd say you got a deal, but I'd give them an extended visit to the Ultrasound bath before you use them though.

McBryce.

[Neomys Sapiens]

A tale of two meters
which look quite similar at first, but are rather different in function. And it is not a happy tale, as I discovered several irregularities during this.
With the B1012 hybrid multimeter newly in, I thought it would be fun to compare it with the visually similar Multizet A1000, which is an electronic analogue meter with automatic 30<>100 range switching (which can be disabled). It uses the LCD display only to indicate the selected sub-range and polarity (or AC). Of course I also wanted to give them a checkout with the DMMcheck, which was overdue anyway for the A1000.

Here the results for the B1012:
DMMcheck          digital   analog   range   dBdig    dBana       
5VDC      5.00     48.5   (20V)
5VDC      05.0     0           (200V)
5VAC100Hz   4.99     48.5   (20V)   15.9        16
5VAC100Hz   04.9     0           (200V)
5VAC10kHz   4.88     48.0   (20V)   15.6        15
5VAC10kHz   04.8     0           (200V)

1mADC      1.00     0.8           (20mA)
1mADC      .998    99.0   (2mA)
1mAAC100Hz   .998     99.0   (2mA)
1mAAC100Hz   .99     0.7           (20mA)
1mAAC10kHz   .97     0.6           (20mA)
1mAAC10kHz   .995     98.5   (2mA)

100R      erratic erratic   (200R)
100R      .100     0.8           (2k)
1k              .998     98.5   (2k)
1k              1.00     0.8           (20k)
10k              10.00  99.0   (20k)
10k              0.98     0.7           (200k)
100k             100.1     99.0   (200k)
(1.5M)      1.514  150   (2M)
(1.5M)      1.43     10           (20M)

Si-Diode          .577     51.5
LEDred      1.509  149.5

Well, it is not spot-on thoughout, but the one thing calling for correction is the erratic reading in the lowest resistance range. Unfortunately, I got ZERO information on that beasty.

Next, the A1000. It is one of my favourite meters and therefore the rectification of it's problems will have a high priority. You can see it in the picture 'A1000_B1012_rdy_3' - there is a significant offset, which I got only so low by adjusting mechanical zero below true zero. So it will certainly need some work. At least I have the circuit diagram for it. Here are the readings:

A1000

5VDC      5.15           (10V)
5VAC100Hz   5.45           (10V)   
5VAC10kHz   5.5           (10V)   

1mADC      .95           (1mA)
1mAAC100Hz   12mA   (3mA)
1mAAC10kHz   10.5mA   (3mA)

100R           erratic   (300R)
1k              .955           (1k)
10k              .955           (10k)
100k              .955           (100k)

As I was on it, I checked the little pen meter SOAR 3100 also. The results are ok for this class of device:
5VDC      4.99
5VAC100Hz   5.11
5VAC10kHz   5.54

100R      108.1
1k              1002
10k              9.99
100k              100.0

Si-Diode f   ca. 150R
Si-Diode r   ca. 3.9M
(Beeper doesn't work for diode)

The picture which shows the A1000 and the B1012 operating side-by-side shows that the B1012 is reading low on the analogue in this range and that the offset on the a1000 is becoming less pronounced in the upper part of the scala. (Input was 8.05V AC 50Hz.)
And finally, I cracked the two Siemens meters open for a look at their construction. I will post additional details when I get to work on them.

[Neomys Sapiens]

Sorry for the jumbled tables, but a tab doesn't work for me here.
 

[Vince]

If you format your tables to use a fixed width font, it will help a lot in making it more legible and easier for you to make things line up.

[PA0PBZ]

If you format your tables to use a fixed width font, it will help a lot in making it more legible and easier for you to make things line up.

And if that doesn't work put it in a spreadsheet and attach it to your post 

[Vince]

Screenshots work too of course, I do it every now and then... but it's time consuming, cumbersome.

For tables like his, I would just prepare them in a fixed width font inside a basic text editor, tweak them however I want them to be, then once done just copy/paste the thing to TEA, and apply text formatting there to use again fixed width.

It's the easiest and fastest way I find, and scales well.

[m k]

Sorry for the jumbled tables, but a tab doesn't work for me here.
 

Use the code.

Code: [Select]

this                            is                              spaced
this                            is                              the same

Some times extra spaces are stripped.

[m k]

Oh alright then, here's some pictures.

Dang, I can't remember what mini TO-3 pictures I was watching.

[Ice-Tea]

My repair queue resides on 4m of racking, weighs in at about 2 tonnes or so.

In walks a dude proclaiming the window behind it will be replaced tomorrow and it all needs to go. 

[AVGresponding]

Isn't there a legal notice period for impending works?

[Peter_O]

snip

Look at that.... guy wants no less than 1,200 Euros for it !

Looking at the other ads of that guy he seems to think in another currency.   

But over here there are more and more people too who think they could refund their energy bills by selling some old TE stuff twice above market prices.   

[Vince]

snip

Look at that.... guy wants no less than 1,200 Euros for it !

Looking at the other ads of that guy he seems to think in another currency.   

Before this one, the last Tek curve tracer I can remember on this website was a 576/5777 solid state, " as is " for.... 2450 Euros IIRC ! 
So I guess this guy thought " OK mine is an older tube version so I will ask half price, only 1,2000 sounds fair.... ".   

But over here there are more and more people too who think they could refund their energy bills by selling some old TE stuff twice above market prices.   

Problem being... the guys who might interested in their TE, ALSO have a huge energy bill to pay, so they are now looking for HALF price TE, not DOUBLE price stuff !
So buyers and sellers just can't find a middle ground.... an ocean separates them.... a biiiiig ocean...

[Vince]

One of our TEA Fellows was kind enough to make me aware of this beauty...

https://www.ebay.de/itm/304727369255

Yes, I just bought one, but I need a spare one now of course, always need two of everything eh ?! 

Will you be so kind as to not engage in a bidding war with my thin wallet ?

At 39 Euros starting price it's a worth monitoring...looks nice, works, and comes with two plug-ins.

That said I can't put a lot of money into it, especially since I paid only 10 Euros for mine....

I am hoping this old French thing not being as popular as HP of the same era... not many people will be interested to begin with... but just in case I prefer to post about it asking for your kindness...

If you are really as much in love with this thing as I am, and realllllllly want it.... OK maybe we can compromise : I will let you have it, if you pass me the 4 wire ohms plugin.... which is ultimately what I am most interested in. Of course having another meter for spares caqn't hurt... but if I have no choice, then I would favour the 4wire plugin.

[factory]

snip

Look at that.... guy wants no less than 1,200 Euros for it !

Looking at the other ads of that guy he seems to think in another currency.   

Before this one, the last Tek curve tracer I can remember on this website was a 576/5777 solid state, " as is " for.... 2450 Euros IIRC ! 
So I guess this guy thought " OK mine is an older tube version so I will ask half price, only 1,2000 sounds fair.... ".   

But over here there are more and more people too who think they could refund their energy bills by selling some old TE stuff twice above market prices.   

Problem being... the guys who might interested in their TE, ALSO have a huge energy bill to pay, so they are now looking for HALF price TE, not DOUBLE price stuff !
So buyers and sellers just can't find a middle ground.... an ocean separates them.... a biiiiig ocean...

Must be using the same price suggestion manipulation algorithm as ePay. 

An example from a few weeks was an ancient 3.5 digit Solartron voltmeter.

If I start a listing with "Solartron voltmeter" and the model number it gives the following utterly stupid start prices. 

For "used"





And "for parts not working" only 10% less.




This is why we can have reasonable priced TE anyone, let alone any bargains. 

And if you try to find an example of that ancient 3.5 digit voltmeter under completed listings, you get no matches and these ancient & not-so-ancient 3.5 digit voltmeters instead. 



David

[factory]

...snip...

One of our TEA Fellows was kind enough to make me aware of this beauty...

...snip...

Yes, I just bought one, but I need a spare one now of course, always need two of everything eh ?! 

Will you be so kind as to not engage in a bidding war with my thin wallet ?

At 39 Euros starting price it's a worth monitoring...looks nice, works, and comes with two plug-ins.

That said I can't put a lot of money into it, especially since I paid only 10 Euros for mine....

I am hoping this old French thing not being as popular as HP of the same era... not many people will be interested to begin with... but just in case I prefer to post about it asking for your kindness...

If you are really as much in love with this thing as I am, and realllllllly want it.... OK maybe we can compromise : I will let you have it, if you pass me the 4 wire ohms plugin.... which is ultimately what I am most interested in. Of course having another meter for spares caqn't hurt... but if I have no choice, then I would favour the 4wire plugin.

Four of them listed in the last month or so, never seen that many of the HP equivalent. 

Not bidding myself, no shipping anyway, sadly it's listed with the N-word, so will probably attract more interest (as the one I bought was), good luck if you do bid.

David

[factory]

@factory this looks useful:  https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/tektronix-ths7xxx-scope-ccfl-controller-drop-in-replacement-for-led-conversion/

Looks interesting, but having seen too many "bigclivedotcom" videos I would probably just use a fixed voltage reg & lower voltage LED tape, with a resistor to set it to quite dim  , as I hate excessively bright LEDs. Of course it might be while before the original lamp fails.

David

[Vince]

...snip...

One of our TEA Fellows was kind enough to make me aware of this beauty...

...snip...

Yes, I just bought one, but I need a spare one now of course, always need two of everything eh ?! 

Will you be so kind as to not engage in a bidding war with my thin wallet ?

At 39 Euros starting price it's a worth monitoring...looks nice, works, and comes with two plug-ins.

That said I can't put a lot of money into it, especially since I paid only 10 Euros for mine....

I am hoping this old French thing not being as popular as HP of the same era... not many people will be interested to begin with... but just in case I prefer to post about it asking for your kindness...

If you are really as much in love with this thing as I am, and realllllllly want it.... OK maybe we can compromise : I will let you have it, if you pass me the 4 wire ohms plugin.... which is ultimately what I am most interested in. Of course having another meter for spares caqn't hurt... but if I have no choice, then I would favour the 4wire plugin.

Four of them listed in the last month or so, never seen that many of the HP equivalent. 

David

Oh, common as mud then ?! 
Who would have thought....
.. or maybe it's just Murphy manipulating us again.... serving us a bunch of them in a short time to fool us into thinking that they are common, and then once these few are sold, it will take years to find the next one.... I am used to this kind of scenario with pretty much all of my older TE, so I would still rather try to get these Rochar meters/plugins while there are some for sale, as just can't know what the  future is made of on the second hand market for niche TE like this...


At any rate, I need to get rid of some scopes to free some storage space. I am already officially running out of space and playing the constant sum game. If something comes in, something else must come out...this has a positive side to it I find, as it forces me to be honest with myself and realize that OK maybe I don't love that old scope AS MUCH as that cool piece of Neeksee TE...
So it makes getting rid of that scope that much easier psychologically.... which I could not do before.

So I am growing up I guess. I have now finished the first phase of the hobby where I bought lots of old stuff on a whim.... now I am entering the second phase of the hobby where I progressively grew a "taste" (goof or bad doesn't matter, but a taste none the less) that renders me more critical, and now helps me focus my attention and money and storage space onto thing that I value particularly.

I guess the next step is get rid of half of it, realizing I never actually use it on the bench and that they are wasted..... I am not quite there yet...not at all 

[Brumby]

My repair queue resides on 4m of racking, weighs in at about 2 tonnes or so.

In walks a dude proclaiming the window behind it will be replaced tomorrow and it all needs to go. 

Who here needs a gym membership anyway?

[Ice-Tea]

Isn't there a legal notice period for impending works?

I wouldn't know. But in the end it's for a good cause (replacing a fixed window with one that can be oppened, allowing to do so when yet another RIFA launches) and the folks around here are quite supportive and flexible, wouldn't be kind to repay them with the middle finger....

[TERRA Operative]

Finally got the last chip for my AFG5101 Arb Func Gen Option 02 reproduction board today.
They don't appear to be blacktopped under the microscope, so might be genuine parts...

I plugged it in and the AFG5101 says it sees the board (just a pin on the connector that's grounded, so not a functional test) and the crystal is oscillating.
So far I have to tweak the two capacitor values for the crystal as the frequency adjustment is a little low.
I'll probably temporarily bodge in a couple trimmer caps in place of the two fixed capacitors to allow me to dial it in with the main frequency adjust trimmer set to half-scale so I can get the two fixed capacitors set to give me as close to 4MHz as possible at the main adjustment half scale.

[TERRA Operative]

Alrighty, picture time!

I got this better than the stated specifications, but I think rev2.0 will have provision for an OCXO, just because.
At the moment, it seems to hover around 0.0005% (wobbling a little up bit if it gets a gust of air on the bench), the manual says it should be within 0.005% (50ppm), so I'm roughly an order of magnitude better. 
Without the Opt02 board, I'm looking at 0.02% to 0.05% (The manual says 0.5% in this range).

So photos as follows:
- Finished PCB adjusted and ready to install.
- 10MHz output without Opt02 board
- 10MHz output with Opt02 board
(Both measurements taken with a GPS locked HP5335A)



I also noticed the red LED in the sinewave push button is busted (probably the most used function, would have been on all the time) so I'll replace that and this thing is looking all finished. 

[EDIT] Turned out to be the whole top row of buttons that the LED's weren't working. I traced it back to a 2N3906 transistor on the CPU board that decided to identify as a diode, luckily I had spares, so all the front panel LED's are working again.

[m k]

Do you need some cable to go with it, needs quite thin stuff?

David

Before I need anything I have to check the trafo.
Original fuse was out so who knows what the reality is, and of course the thing is packed away, not far though.

If trafo is sane I'll accept the new connector, if you think you won't have the rainy day one day.

Trafo tested, seems to be ok.
Found 20mm holder and removed its chassis, bent pins and it's in.
Had only T fuses in hand so smallest, 160mA is in place.

Suitable wired test pins emerged from old hard disk power extension thingy.
Some twist, some tin, cut ends, file corners and it's like a new.
Keep in mind that newer extension may have thicker wires.

Not because of this but low ohms is a bit off, short is around 4.

I've sent you a PM, now I've found a box to send the connector, assuming you still need it.

David

Yee haw, over the sea and far away, the plug is here.
(fortnight to winter solstice)

But what I clearly did not understand is how small it is.

[factory]

Good to hear it finally made it, maybe I should have pictured it against something to show how small they are, that's also the reason I sent a new one, due to the possibility of broken screws or stripped threads with the used ones I have.

Also got the smallest 3-core cable I could find at CPC, had to buy a 100m roll to get it in grey, quite a few old UK made TE require this cable too.

David

[m k]

I had to do the final customs clearance and local post informed me by snail mail.
No extra charge but I guess statistics must be in order.

I think it was in the country quite a bit before I got it.

About the cable then,
I obviously don't know voltage ratings of those mini cables I have, so I tried few local shops.
No luck, many cables are available but something is always wrong, I think I go with a shielded pair of some audio sort, just wondering what kind of voltages are advertised, RMS or P-P.

[factory]

That took a while to find in my emails, back in 2013 I bought a full 100m roll of 2183Y three core 0.5mm² mains cable in grey, clearance price was about £18 from Farnell, I dread to think how much it is now.
Some ancient stuff had even thinner mains cables, which seem unavailable now, not that I want any.

David