Tariffs

[TUMEMBER]

骄傲使人跌倒

[tom66]

What we really need to be afraid of, in relation to nukes, is the US. Trump thinks he is still hosting a tv programme, but one with a far bigger audience than The Apprentice. He is not clever (cf. Putin running rings around him) but has big enough toys that he can screw anyone who doesn't fawn over him (cf. numerous malicious lawsuits that are the poster children for SLAPPs). So there is no-one to tell him he is wrong not quite right great plan, but poor optics. If he ever got the idea that a battlefield nuke would be justified (in his mind - forget legally or morally) then we will be fucked because he'll do it. He has nothing whatever to lose since all the peasants in America and rest of world (that means you, me, even the billionaires) will be given up before the great POTUS.

Just look at his reaction to not getting the Nobel Prize. Hissy fit and now "doesn't have to think only about peace".

Tariff-wise (and, actually, just anything trade), every other country seems to be on bended knee to him. I wonder if that's just to give them time to build alternative partners before then tell him to FRO. I see Spain is the only one so far to call out this current illegal war. Wonder what their tariffs will be like next week. The UK initially had a tiny bit of backbone but has now succumbed, so we might just get away with a few insults but tariffs will remain as per the agreement (which agreement we're not sure, but it will be one of them).

Agreed.  My biggest concern with Trump is he has shown that diplomacy with the US is dead.  This has made the USA an unreliable partner.  Other countries will put up with what Trump has done because they need the USA, but only in the short term.  They currently need the USA as a customer, or as part of their supply chains, or for defence.  But the can pivot.  Going forwards this has a chilling effect on future US relations.  The UK may be willing to sign a trade agreement today.  Will they be so willing to do so in the future?  What about defence agreements?  Cooperation on crime and intelligence?

The world benefits from a strong USA.  China and Russia will plug the gap that the US has left.  Their interests are more orthogonal to ours than the Americans.  We may take the piss out of the yanks from time to time, and disagree on things like regulating Big Tech, healthcare, and pharmaceuticals... but broadly I think our interests are quite well aligned. 

The damage Trump has done -- tariffs being just one part -- will be most keenly felt in the next 10-20 years, not today.

[Electrodynamic]

Tariffs are hardly worth mentioning at this point.

As were seeing in the U.S. war with Iran the patriot and other missile systems are basically useless. The other day 11 interceptor missiles were fired at one Iranian missile and all of them missed. Iran is hitting oil refineries, power stations, data centers and water desalination. They plan on wiping out all the infrastructure in the middle east.

We can expect oil and fuel prices to hit record levels soon if this plays out as many people claim. It reminds me of the bluster and bs from the Iraq war and the mythical WMD, over in a couple days right?. 

[Cyclotron]

What we really need to be afraid of, in relation to nukes, is the US. Trump thinks he is still hosting a tv programme, but one with a far bigger audience than The Apprentice. He is not clever (cf. Putin running rings around him) but has big enough toys that he can screw anyone who doesn't fawn over him (cf. numerous malicious lawsuits that are the poster children for SLAPPs). So there is no-one to tell him he is wrong not quite right great plan, but poor optics. If he ever got the idea that a battlefield nuke would be justified (in his mind - forget legally or morally) then we will be fucked because he'll do it. He has nothing whatever to lose since all the peasants in America and rest of world (that means you, me, even the billionaires) will be given up before the great POTUS.

Just look at his reaction to not getting the Nobel Prize. Hissy fit and now "doesn't have to think only about peace".

Tariff-wise (and, actually, just anything trade), every other country seems to be on bended knee to him. I wonder if that's just to give them time to build alternative partners before then tell him to FRO. I see Spain is the only one so far to call out this current illegal war. Wonder what their tariffs will be like next week. The UK initially had a tiny bit of backbone but has now succumbed, so we might just get away with a few insults but tariffs will remain as per the agreement (which agreement we're not sure, but it will be one of them).

Agreed.  My biggest concern with Trump is he has shown that diplomacy with the US is dead.  This has made the USA an unreliable partner.  Other countries will put up with what Trump has done because they need the USA, but only in the short term.  They currently need the USA as a customer, or as part of their supply chains, or for defence.  But the can pivot.  Going forwards this has a chilling effect on future US relations.  The UK may be willing to sign a trade agreement today.  Will they be so willing to do so in the future?  What about defence agreements?  Cooperation on crime and intelligence?

The world benefits from a strong USA.  China and Russia will plug the gap that the US has left.  Their interests are more orthogonal to ours than the Americans.  We may take the piss out of the yanks from time to time, and disagree on things like regulating Big Tech, healthcare, and pharmaceuticals... but broadly I think our interests are quite well aligned. 

The damage Trump has done -- tariffs being just one part -- will be most keenly felt in the next 10-20 years, not today.

No doubt. I blame Spain; if they hadn't invaded and then, later, with the British and French, stolen all of the lands in the Americas, the US might not exist. 534 years later, we have Donald Trump.

There have been many issues over the years. I don't believe that Donald Trump will have a lasting impact unless, of course, like the fear mongers say, he becomes a dictator. Which, of course, isn't going to happen.

Trump's name will sit along with the others that have had significant disdain cast their way.
Richard Nixon
Jimmy Carter
Lyndon B. Johnson
Andrew Johnson
James Buchanan
Warren G Harding

Europe and the Middle East, in particular, didn't like George W. Bush.

[Cyclotron]

Tariffs are hardly worth mentioning at this point.

As were seeing in the U.S. war with Iran the patriot and other missile systems are basically useless. The other day 11 interceptor missiles were fired at one Iranian missile and all of them missed. Iran is hitting oil refineries, power stations, data centers and water desalination. They plan on wiping out all the infrastructure in the middle east.

We can expect oil and fuel prices to hit record levels soon if this plays out as many people claim. It reminds me of the bluster and bs from the Iraq war and the mythical WMD, over in a couple days right?. 

 
Your country supports this action in Iran. This is your responsibility as a Canadian.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/video-carney-says-canada-supports-us-action-in-iran/

[dietert1]

While Putin and Netanhau may claim self defense to justify preventive action, Trump cannot. What his government does (and did with the tariffs before) appears to be extended suicide. Stunning everybody, it has long been predicted and it seems to be happening right now.
Only simple minded people will believe that Venezuela can supply enough oil on a short term. i mean even if they wanted to.

Regards, Dieter

[tom66]

Tariffs are hardly worth mentioning at this point.

As were seeing in the U.S. war with Iran the patriot and other missile systems are basically useless. The other day 11 interceptor missiles were fired at one Iranian missile and all of them missed. Iran is hitting oil refineries, power stations, data centers and water desalination. They plan on wiping out all the infrastructure in the middle east.

We can expect oil and fuel prices to hit record levels soon if this plays out as many people claim. It reminds me of the bluster and bs from the Iraq war and the mythical WMD, over in a couple days right?. 

Well, what we are seeing is the West has no practical way to deal with drone swarms. 

A Shahed drone costs around $50-100k, according to Western estimates, so for any reasonable defence budget you can send thousands at your enemy.  It can also be launched from almost anywhere and you can get 10-15 in a shipping container.  Iran is even launching them off ships, and they have a custom made mini-aircraft carrier for this (Shahid Bagheri), though US forces claim that has since been sunk I don't think it makes that much difference right now.

The problem with an enemy that has sub-$100k drones is they can easily outpace an opponent with $10-20m missiles.  Simply by sending a lot more than they can cope with.  Doesn't matter if 99% of them get intercepted.  You just need a few good hits and you can do a lot of damage.

It was estimated by one analyst that UAE used 70% of its Patriot missile fleet (over 700 missiles) in one day of drone attacks; that's simply unsustainable. 

The Ukranians realised pretty quickly the only viable way to take out drones is by using guns, not missiles. 

They use F-16s with machine guns...
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/wl-55N0xmJQ
(Mother bird protects nest from predators)

Or big machine guns on technicals.
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/-lMVYkaBuNg

Missiles get used, but sparingly, and only when high value targets are involved.

[tszaboo]

Tariffs are hardly worth mentioning at this point.

As were seeing in the U.S. war with Iran the patriot and other missile systems are basically useless. The other day 11 interceptor missiles were fired at one Iranian missile and all of them missed. Iran is hitting oil refineries, power stations, data centers and water desalination. They plan on wiping out all the infrastructure in the middle east.

We can expect oil and fuel prices to hit record levels soon if this plays out as many people claim. It reminds me of the bluster and bs from the Iraq war and the mythical WMD, over in a couple days right?. 

The patriot is primarily an anti aircraft system. The PAC-3 variant has some anti ballistic missile capabilities, as it has been demonstrated in Ukraine with great effect. Even if the target is  "within range" of the patriot, it's possible there is no firing solution to it. It depends on the angle, speed, and other parameters. And older systems, that are operated by many counties in the region, might not even have the capability. And one operator repeatedly firing on a 5% probability of intercept doesn't mean that a system has failed.
The anti ballistic missile system of the US is the THAAD, you can take out ICBMs with that if you want. And SM-6 from ships if I recall correctly.
And you actually don't know what was on that video. I see explosions from the direction of the incoming missile, it's likely that multiple were intercepted and one got through. Or the interception happened, and all you see is the kinetic part of the missile arriving.
But you don't actually are about any of these things, do you?

[tszaboo]

Well, what we are seeing is the West has no practical way to deal with drone swarms. 

Yes, except these systems we really don't have any cheap way to dispose drones.
APKWS-II,
the UK's laser interceptor on their ships, whatever it's called
CWIS
KREUGER100
The dozens of different EW systems
Manpads
Skyranger
A guy with a shotgun in a Cesna

Plus, you know, you fly in an F18 from where the drones were coming from 5 minutes later, and drop a pair of 500 pounders on their head. For a competent military, with enough resources (more than Ukraine has), these drones are a temporary nuisance.

[Analog Kid]

Have any of you even watched the many, many videos available online (YooToob, X, Telegram, etc.) of the many, many Iranian missiles that have made it through all the Israeli AD systems? It's actually quite shocking: you see an incoming missile with up to a dozen interceptors launched from the ground. Most of the time the missiles get through anyhow.

The Iranians have proven those systems to be about as effective as Swiss cheese.

[Cyclotron]

Keep the bad news flowing about arms being futile and defenses being ineffective. The US Military Industrial Complex is panting and sweating already.
Next up is creaming their jumpers.

[Analog Kid]

@Cyclotron:

Have you heard about the clogged-up toilets on the USS Gerald Ford?
Have you heard why they got that way?

[Andy Chee]

The Iranians have proven those systems to be about as effective as Swiss cheese.

The Iron Dome was intended to defend against the homemade rockets of Hamas launched from Gaza (and Hezbollah rockets from Lebanon), not the entire arsenal of an industrialised nation state.

TLDR; there's a big difference between improvised weapons and mass produced factory made weapons.

[Electrodynamic]

Tariffs are hardly worth mentioning at this point.

As were seeing in the U.S. war with Iran the patriot and other missile systems are basically useless. The other day 11 interceptor missiles were fired at one Iranian missile and all of them missed. Iran is hitting oil refineries, power stations, data centers and water desalination. They plan on wiping out all the infrastructure in the middle east.

We can expect oil and fuel prices to hit record levels soon if this plays out as many people claim. It reminds me of the bluster and bs from the Iraq war and the mythical WMD, over in a couple days right?. 

 
Your country supports this action in Iran. This is your responsibility as a Canadian.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/video-carney-says-canada-supports-us-action-in-iran/

I think our PM supports the war in Iran because your leader trump the liar, convicted felon and groper has threatened any country which doesn't support them. Mark Carney is also really busy developing new trade deals with other countries who have had enough of the U.S. tariffs. We like free trade not more bs wars.

Most people I talked to here thought the war with Iran was a joke to distract from the failing U.S. economy and the Epstein files. I tend to agree.

[Electrodynamic]

Have any of you even watched the many, many videos available online (YooToob, X, Telegram, etc.) of the many, many Iranian missiles that have made it through all the Israeli AD systems? It's actually quite shocking: you see an incoming missile with up to a dozen interceptors launched from the ground. Most of the time the missiles get through anyhow.

The Iranians have proven those systems to be about as effective as Swiss cheese.

I heard many rumblings in the defense industry years ago that most of these interceptor systems were a joke. Not one country or another just all the systems not being reliable or up to the task. Some did okay with a predictable slow trajectory but the new missiles zig and zag. So this nonsense of hitting a bullet with another bullet is out the window.

Canada needs to pull out of this golden dome bs.

[Cyclotron]

Tariffs are hardly worth mentioning at this point.

As were seeing in the U.S. war with Iran the patriot and other missile systems are basically useless. The other day 11 interceptor missiles were fired at one Iranian missile and all of them missed. Iran is hitting oil refineries, power stations, data centers and water desalination. They plan on wiping out all the infrastructure in the middle east.

We can expect oil and fuel prices to hit record levels soon if this plays out as many people claim. It reminds me of the bluster and bs from the Iraq war and the mythical WMD, over in a couple days right?. 

 
Your country supports this action in Iran. This is your responsibility as a Canadian.
https://www.theglobeandmail.com/world/video-carney-says-canada-supports-us-action-in-iran/

I think our PM supports the war in Iran because your leader trump the liar, convicted felon and groper has threatened any country which doesn't support them. Mark Carney is also really busy developing new trade deals with other countries who have had enough of the U.S. tariffs. We like free trade not more bs wars.

Most people I talked to here thought the war with Iran was a joke to distract from the failing U.S. economy and the Epstein files. I tend to agree.

Carney said you guys support this because you don't want Iran obtaining nuclear weapons.
But you're saying Mark Carney as your PM and Canada/you support the US in Iran because you're scared of Donald Trump? 

[krish2487]

So you're saying Mark Carney as your PM and Canada/you support the US in Iran because you're scared of Donald Trump? 

A senile, almost octagenarian, rapist,felon, paedophile psycopath with raging dementia, god complex, fragile ego, itchy trigger finger, non existent impulse response and massive firepower ( manpower and weapons) and nukes at his disposal constantly enabled by gutless, immoral, wretched staff and cabinet....

anyone with more than one brain cell should be scared... very scared...

[Cyclotron]

So you're saying Mark Carney as your PM and Canada/you support the US in Iran because you're scared of Donald Trump? 

A senile, almost octagenarian, rapist,felon, paedophile psycopath with raging dementia, god complex, fragile ego, itchy trigger finger, non existent impulse response and massive firepower ( manpower and weapons) and nukes at his disposal constantly enabled by gutless, immoral, wretched staff and cabinet....

anyone with more than one brain cell should be scared... very scared...

Well, I'm sorry, you shouldn't be scared. Many countries and oppositions are speaking against Trump as normal, without showing fear. I'm sure there are those who are shaking in their boots, though, as you say.

[Electrodynamic]

So you're saying Mark Carney as your PM and Canada/you support the US in Iran because you're scared of Donald Trump? 

A senile, almost octagenarian, rapist,felon, paedophile psycopath with raging dementia, god complex, fragile ego, itchy trigger finger, non existent impulse response and massive firepower ( manpower and weapons) and nukes at his disposal constantly enabled by gutless, immoral, wretched staff and cabinet....

anyone with more than one brain cell should be scared... very scared...

Agree on all counts except anyone being scared. It's insane they elected a geriatric basket case like trump. The rumor is he wears adult diapers and routinely craps himself. People moving away and holding their nose in many pictures. I'm not sure it can get any more embarrassing. It's just sad.

[krish2487]

Agree on all counts except anyone being scared. It's insane they elected a geriatric basket case like trump. The rumor is he wears adult diapers and routinely craps himself. People moving away and holding their nose in many pictures. I'm not sure it can get any more embarrassing. It's just sad.

Thats precisely my point. He is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is a majority of Americans who voted him into power - twice.
Noone has held him accountable for the clusterfuck he has caused since his second term - his staff and cabinet mock, flout, disobey congress and judiciary with impunity.
None of them have faced any consequences..

We are one bad day away from him using the nuclear football, and there is no TACO aspect about it.. no takebacks.. so yeah... unless America grows a spine.. we should be scared..

[Cyclotron]

While ED, who I believe is near Calgary or in AB, is announcing how he and Canada are scared. Only supporting the Iran action because of fear of Donald Trump, I am literally sitting in a Turkish restaurant in Mississauga, ON, showing his post to my Canadian brothers. 

They all wanted me to tell you that you can rely on them to protect you ED. They said they aren't scared, and they also support Carney's message to support the US and Israel's mission in Iran.

They were most curious how ED can be in that area of Canada and not be a rabid right-wing person. I told them I wasn't sure that's ED's location, but had seen references indicating it. I'll be in Ottawa later this week. I'll see what the folks in Ottawa have to think about it all. I am supposed to be in the UK in 2-3 weeks.

Take a deep breath, touch grass, and get away from the computer and social media. Donald Trump is a felon convicted of falsifying business records, not murder, and received no punishment (actually, he was told to pay an enormous amount, and that was found unconstitutional). Sounds scary. He's been found liable in a civil case for sexual assault and defamation. So, if you are a woman in close contact with him, I'd suggest you be wary.

Making up things about him is just mindless fear at work. It isn't going to help you get through the next couple of years.
I recommend that everyone get a chance to travel to other countries, have conversations over a meal and a drink. You'd have less fear and hate, I think.

If you make it to Mississauga, ON, check out this restaurant. The food was fantastic and so was the Turkish coffee!

[Cyclotron]

Agree on all counts except anyone being scared. It's insane they elected a geriatric basket case like trump. The rumor is he wears adult diapers and routinely craps himself. People moving away and holding their nose in many pictures. I'm not sure it can get any more embarrassing. It's just sad.

Thats precisely my point. He is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is a majority of Americans who voted him into power - twice.
Noone has held him accountable for the clusterfuck he has caused since his second term - his staff and cabinet mock, flout, disobey congress and judiciary with impunity.
None of them have faced any consequences..

We are one bad day away from him using the nuclear football, and there is no TACO aspect about it.. no takebacks.. so yeah... unless America grows a spine.. we should be scared..

Ok, so ED, Krish2487 said that if you had more than one brain cell, you should be scared. So are you scared or not?  In one post, you seemed to be indicating you're shaking in your boots, scared, but in his last one, you disagreed.

If you're not scared, good on ya, no worries. If you are scared, I'm sorry, you shouldn't be. Everything is going to be ok. Get out of the house and go visit the US.  Maybe a warm place, have a meal with some people, and see how it goes, maybe.

[tom66]

Agree on all counts except anyone being scared. It's insane they elected a geriatric basket case like trump. The rumor is he wears adult diapers and routinely craps himself. People moving away and holding their nose in many pictures. I'm not sure it can get any more embarrassing. It's just sad.

Thats precisely my point. He is a symptom, not the cause. The cause is a majority of Americans who voted him into power - twice.
Noone has held him accountable for the clusterfuck he has caused since his second term - his staff and cabinet mock, flout, disobey congress and judiciary with impunity.
None of them have faced any consequences..

We are one bad day away from him using the nuclear football, and there is no TACO aspect about it.. no takebacks.. so yeah... unless America grows a spine.. we should be scared..

America needs a political reset.  Neither party works for the electorate.
The cost of running for POTUS is up to $5bn of which the majority comes from large value donors not ordinary citizens.
Senators & house members can trade on insider information with impunity.
Lobbyists dictate policy, often defeating bills and policies that the electorate strongly support.
(Example: policies that would allow employers to declare income to IRS directly, lobbied against by Intuit for obvious reasons.)

The only way you fix what led to Trump is to severely restrict lobbying, repeal Citizens United and eliminate PACs, limit donations to ~$1,000 per person and per corporation, and fix the electoral system so that third parties have a chance.

Until then you're going to keep getting bad politicians.

[PlainName]

While ED, who I believe is [...]

Just discuss tariffs without making it personal about posters. If you have an issue with their argument then present the refutal without making it personal.

If you think someone's view is wrong then show why it is, without insulting them or it being about them.

Seriously, all of the  blowback you get here is because you seem not to be able to discuss things unless you make it about the other person and not their argument.

[krish2487]

America needs a political reset.  Neither party works for the electorate.
The cost of running for POTUS is up to $5bn of which the majority comes from large value donors not ordinary citizens.
Senators & house members can trade on insider information with impunity.
Lobbyists dictate policy, often defeating bills and policies that the electorate strongly support.
(Example: policies that would allow employers to declare income to IRS directly, lobbied against by Intuit for obvious reasons.)

The only way you fix what led to Trump is to severely restrict lobbying, repeal Citizens United and eliminate PACs, limit donations to ~$1,000 per person and per corporation, and fix the electoral system so that third parties have a chance.

Until then you're going to keep getting bad politicians.

Agreed.. I dont see that happening.. Conventional wisdom / knowledge suggests that an individual who rises to the top of the game in their field usually has sociopathic traits i.e no remorse and the willingness to sacrifice others for their benefit.. Now lump the richest and meanest sociopaths in America and put them in charge of running the country.... who among them will want to willingly give up power?? The last 30 years have demonstrated that both the parties have systematically destroyed any checks and balances in place that make them accountable and answerable to people...