Author Topic: The Hyperloop: BUSTED  (Read 78851 times)

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Offline Cyberdragon

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #500 on: November 07, 2019, 05:18:28 am »
Hyperloop Dubai Vision 2020 : Biggest Revolution In Economy & Technology !
 :palm:  WTF, Dubai?  How big is Dubai, around 50 km long by 20 km wide?
And transporting cargo?  You have got to be kidding me.
The point of hyperloop speed is to get people whose time is worth money from point A to point B as fast and cheap as possible.  With a 50km long city, how will the stops be placed?  Will the hyperloop even be able to comfortably accelerate up to above 500km/h between stops?  Say something like 5 of them in the city every 10km, or even shorter.
If it's for parcel delivery, I'll wait the extra 1-2 hours to have it shipped to my door by truck.



It's Dubai, where they use money as tissue with their mega fancy hotels and artificial islands. ::)

If they do build it, it'll just be a tourist trap that bleeds money from impracticality until it becomes a financial failure. Then when the POS inevitably breaks down they'll just rip it up, dump it in the ocean, bury it in sand and build a resort on it. You'll never hear about it again. ;D
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Online EEVblog

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #501 on: November 07, 2019, 05:50:55 am »
It's Dubai, where they use money as tissue with their mega fancy hotels and artificial islands. ::)
If they do build it, it'll just be a tourist trap that bleeds money from impracticality until it becomes a financial failure. Then when the POS inevitably breaks down they'll just rip it up, dump it in the ocean, bury it in sand and build a resort on it. You'll never hear about it again. ;D

I've heard it's going to be just a cargo delivery system at first?
Either way it's going to fail either spectacularly or with a whimper bogged down in technicalities.
 

Offline soldar

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #502 on: November 07, 2019, 09:19:24 am »
I've heard it's going to be just a cargo delivery system at first?

Totally unrelated to the hyperloop but I always thought that in densely populated areas the old pneumatic tube would make sense. With computer automatic controls you could send a small item, like a book or a phone, across town, in no time and much faster than by courier.

I have always thought it would be worth looking into this.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube
 
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Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #503 on: November 07, 2019, 10:05:10 am »
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics) Have you ever been in subway when train is nearing and you feel how air is pushed out of the tube?

How does the train being out in the open fix that?
Simple. Air can go sideways.  Not pushed all the way through the tube in front of train and some of it passing through the gap between tube and train.

There was a bit more to my post which you appear to have missed. It's a solution to a strawman problem.
 

Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #504 on: November 07, 2019, 07:47:53 pm »
Quote
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Drag_(physics) Have you ever been in subway when train is nearing and you feel how air is pushed out of the tube?

How does the train being out in the open fix that?
Simple. Air can go sideways.  Not pushed all the way through the tube in front of train and some of it passing through the gap between tube and train.

There was a bit more to my post which you appear to have missed. It's a solution to a strawman problem.
:palm: Air resistance is a huge problem. If it wasn't, Chinese Maglev would run at over 1000 km/h. And I wasn't even talking about Hyperloop. Just subway train vs free air train.
Why do you think Japanese Shinkansen has such shape?

« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 10:47:30 pm by wraper »
 

Offline Tepe

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #505 on: November 07, 2019, 09:19:55 pm »
Why do you think Japanese Shinkansen has such shape?

Because they think it looks cool?  ;)
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Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #506 on: November 07, 2019, 10:04:47 pm »

Because they think it looks cool?  ;)
It's not aerodynamic at all unlike Shinkansen, lower part is for cleaning snow and debris on rails. It seems to have air guides for pushing smoke above the train together with incoming air. Also if you look how those steam locomotives were made, it's quite natural it has front of such shape. Most of them had two small wheels at front.



« Last Edit: November 07, 2019, 10:18:49 pm by wraper »
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #507 on: November 07, 2019, 10:23:54 pm »
Quote
Air resistance is a huge problem. If it wasn't, Chinese Maglev would run at over 1000 km/h.

Yes, exactly! Hence one reason why they want to run without air, and the way to do that is in an evacuated tube. Having the train OUTSIDE the tube, as in this girl's solution, does not fix that problem.
 

Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #508 on: November 07, 2019, 10:44:42 pm »
Yes, exactly! Hence one reason why they want to run without air, and the way to do that is in an evacuated tube.
I did not say it fixes it entirely. But train in free air certainly has less problems with air resistance than train in tube.
Quote
Having the train OUTSIDE the tube, as in this girl's solution, does not fix that problem.
Where did I say it's not an idiotic proposal? Combining worst of both.
 

Offline dunkemhigh

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #509 on: November 07, 2019, 10:59:30 pm »
Quote
But train in free air certainly has less problems

Are my posts being censored or something? Appropriate bits being chopped out so you don't see them? I don't think I am using big words or deliberately trying to be misunderstood, so I am lost as to how the central point of all this is being overlooked every cycle.

Ah well. I give up.
 

Offline nctnico

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #510 on: November 07, 2019, 11:15:29 pm »
Yes, exactly! Hence one reason why they want to run without air, and the way to do that is in an evacuated tube.
I did not say it fixes it entirely. But train in free air certainly has less problems with air resistance than train in tube.
I have a feeling that the speed at which it really doesn't matter is lower than you think. Better run some numbers on air friction in a tunnel versus free air. Even in open space (outside a tunnel) air doesn't like to move very much.
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 

Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #511 on: November 07, 2019, 11:24:05 pm »
Are my posts being censored or something? Appropriate bits being chopped out so you don't see them?
I did not chop anything appropriate. I quoted parts I commented on. I avoid making posts where quote in 10x larger than what I wrote myself and it's not even certain on what particularly I comment. If you want to read full original post, feel free to click the link on top of quote.
Quote
I don't think I am using big words or deliberately trying to be misunderstood, so I am lost as to how the central point of all this is being overlooked every cycle.
I did not see any clear central point of what you wrote. FYI, IMHO Hyperloop concept as such might be feasible given it can be made cheap enough and technical problems solved.
 

Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #512 on: November 07, 2019, 11:26:49 pm »
Yes, exactly! Hence one reason why they want to run without air, and the way to do that is in an evacuated tube.
I did not say it fixes it entirely. But train in free air certainly has less problems with air resistance than train in tube.
I have a feeling that the speed at which it really doesn't matter is lower than you think. Better run some numbers on air friction in a tunnel versus free air. Even in open space (outside a tunnel) air doesn't like to move very much.
What i wrote is just a comparison of 2 bads. It matters even at relatively low speed, like 50 km/h.
 

Online maginnovision

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #513 on: November 07, 2019, 11:53:24 pm »
I wouldn't both arguing with wraper, he's part of the musk cult and seems to defend everything regardless of merit.
 

Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #514 on: November 08, 2019, 12:11:34 am »
I wouldn't both arguing with wraper, he's part of the musk cult and seems to defend everything regardless of merit.
And then there are nut jobs who are triggered just by hearing his name. BTW thanks for Ad hominem attack. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
Also I never said that Hyperloop will work or is necessarily feasible for real life transportation given technical problems need to be solved.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #515 on: November 08, 2019, 12:19:08 am »
I've heard it's going to be just a cargo delivery system at first?

Totally unrelated to the hyperloop but I always thought that in densely populated areas the old pneumatic tube would make sense. With computer automatic controls you could send a small item, like a book or a phone, across town, in no time and much faster than by courier.

I have always thought it would be worth looking into this.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pneumatic_tube

This is what you end up with when you design point-to-point systems:

 

Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #516 on: November 08, 2019, 12:30:19 am »
This is what you end up with when you design point-to-point systems:
And this if what you get when you don't

 

Online beanflying

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #517 on: November 08, 2019, 12:33:44 am »
Still defending your God @Wraper  :-DD Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is  :bullshit:
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Offline nctnico

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #518 on: November 08, 2019, 12:44:00 am »
Still defending your God @Wraper  :-DD Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is  :bullshit:
Then please enlighten us with your facts. So far all I have seen from people trying to debunk hyperloop is just a heap load of smelly FUD. That isn't engineering. That is just mindless ranting about stuff they don't have the background and/or knowledge about. And my proof of that is very solid: there are several companies putting their own money on the line to investigate whether hyperloop is actually feasible or not. These people don't do off-the-cuff statements based on what their underbelly is saying today; they do real engineering. To me that is 100000000000000000000 times more interesting than just another person trying to add more clickbait to Yuoutube. It is the real engineers which get new technology out there and they should receive way more respect. Unfortunately being negative and set in old ways seems to be the modus-operandi nowadays. No wonder so little people want to get involved in engineering. Before they know it their work is belittled.

I think I'm going to watch 'from the earth to the moon' again. Much more interesting than rant videos on Youtube.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 12:49:50 am by nctnico »
There are small lies, big lies and then there is what is on the screen of your oscilloscope.
 
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Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #519 on: November 08, 2019, 12:47:00 am »
Still defending your God @Wraper  :-DD Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is  :bullshit:
Says rational one who rejected my suggestions on PC hardware because of Elon Musk.
 

Online EEVblog

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #520 on: November 08, 2019, 01:26:05 am »
Still defending your God @Wraper  :-DD Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is  :bullshit:
Then please enlighten us with your facts. So far all I have seen from people trying to debunk hyperloop is just a heap load of smelly FUD. That isn't engineering. That is just mindless ranting about stuff they don't have the background and/or knowledge about. And my proof of that is very solid: there are several companies putting their own money on the line to investigate whether hyperloop is actually feasible or not.

No, they all seem convinced that it's feasible and are going full steam ahead with that mindset.
You wouldn't be wasting money and time and resources on beautiful pod design mockups and giving timelines for completion if you were just doing basic feasibility engineering.
Only when they come-a-gusta will they realise, "oh gee, it wasn't feasible after all, what a shame because our pod design is just so fantastic".

Hyperloop is basically a fancy Kickstarer project on a massive scale. Produce the hype video and all the animations and give pie-in-the-sky timelines, including "As seen in the New York Times" and endorsed my Elon Musk and Richard Branson badges on the pages to suck people into the dream, and then figure out how to make it work.
« Last Edit: November 08, 2019, 01:34:19 am by EEVblog »
 

Online beanflying

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #521 on: November 08, 2019, 01:28:58 am »
They only thing I seem to remember suggesting you were wrong about was my choice of Case and going air cooled which has now passed its first mid 30 degree ambient day with flying colours so feel free to revise your incorrect post anytime you like :-//

Musk is a self promoting tosser! The only person to benefit from the overhypedloop is him be it is personal wealth, share price or work for the Boring Company. Any benefit to the population of the world so far ZERO.
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Online beanflying

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #522 on: November 08, 2019, 01:35:12 am »
Still defending your God @Wraper  :-DD Seriously this is an Engineering forum BS may float in the mass media but facts matter. The Overhyped Loop is  :bullshit:
Then please enlighten us with your facts. So far all I have seen from people trying to debunk hyperloop is just a heap load of smelly FUD. That isn't engineering. That is just mindless ranting about stuff they don't have the background and/or knowledge about. And my proof of that is very solid: there are several companies putting their own money on the line to investigate whether hyperloop is actually feasible or not. These people don't do off-the-cuff statements based on what their underbelly is saying today; they do real engineering. To me that is 100000000000000000000 times more interesting than just another person trying to add more clickbait to Yuoutube. It is the real engineers which get new technology out there and they should receive way more respect. Unfortunately being negative and set in old ways seems to be the modus-operandi nowadays. No wonder so little people want to get involved in engineering. Before they know it their work is belittled.

I think I'm going to watch 'from the earth to the moon' again. Much more interesting than rant videos on Youtube.


There is no Engineering beyond the overhype to show it will work, bluff and BS that it will work is  :bullshit: Retrofitting it into a working real city is only one of the issues before you get near the  :bullshit: non facts and figures Musk has offered. Smoke and mirrors and pushed out promises are not facts or Engineering.
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Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #523 on: November 08, 2019, 01:40:13 am »
The only person to benefit from the overhypedloop is him be it is personal wealth, share price or work for the Boring Company.
Fun fact, nor he, nor Boring company are not doing any hyperloop projects as of now other than tunnel built for student competitions. All you hear is from other companies who took the idea. Also Spacex and it's subsidiary Boring company are private. So share price argument is irrelevant.
 

Online wraper

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Re: The Hyperloop: BUSTED
« Reply #524 on: November 08, 2019, 01:48:02 am »
There is no Engineering beyond the overhype to show it will work, bluff and BS that it will work is  :bullshit:
What a BS. As a concept, it is completely operational, actually exists and proven to work. What's is under big question is real life implementation. What works as a concept, very often is not feasible in real life. Because of financial, safety, technical, whatever reasons.
Quote
Retrofitting it into a working real city is only one of the issues before you get near the  :bullshit: non facts and figures Musk has offered. Smoke and mirrors and pushed out promises are not facts or Engineering.
:palm: How about retrofitting usual subway into existing cities? How it's any different from this standpoint.
 


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