Well, if all polish were send home then the employer wouldn't have the choice but employ british.In that case the employer is likely to move to Poland because they can't find the necessary skilled and motivated employees. The problem is not the amount of people but the level of education and or motivation.
I'll take it a step further and suggest that the major politicians and economists probably don't know the consequences either. At a time when the global economy is making a slow/uncertain/wobbly recovery it seemed reckless to consider a referendum.Of course the exact loss of GDP is impossible to predict. However, I guess no serious economist would dare to predict a bright future in the short or mid term.
This is no excuse though for not informing at all what leaving the EU would mean. Heck, I feel that every other European was better informed than the typical Brit.My concern for the UK is that we are an ageing population who aren't as good at manufacturing stuff as we used to be. In my opinion, the leave vote was reinforced by older people who still view the UK (and its future prospects) through rose tinted specs.Well, really? This is why the industrial production in Britain went down? It's not because the Brits decided to earn their money with financial trickery and didn't invest in modern production processes in the last 50 years?
To me limiting immigration looks like result of quite rational thinking.
I'll take it a step further and suggest that the major politicians and economists probably don't know the consequences either. At a time when the global economy is making a slow/uncertain/wobbly recovery it seemed reckless to consider a referendum.Of course the exact loss of GDP is impossible to predict. However, I guess no serious economist would dare to predict a bright future in the short or mid term.
This is no excuse though for not informing at all what leaving the EU would mean. Heck, I feel that every other European was better informed than the typical Brit.My concern for the UK is that we are an ageing population who aren't as good at manufacturing stuff as we used to be. In my opinion, the leave vote was reinforced by older people who still view the UK (and its future prospects) through rose tinted specs.Well, really? This is why the industrial production in Britain went down? It's not because the Brits decided to earn their money with financial trickery and didn't invest in modern production processes in the last 50 years?
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply we are getting bad at making things just because the population is ageing. Our manufacturing capabilities have been reduced alarmingly for various reasons and on top of this the population has an increasing proportion of old people that will require care/support.
It doesn't look good IMO.
I'll take it a step further and suggest that the major politicians and economists probably don't know the consequences either. At a time when the global economy is making a slow/uncertain/wobbly recovery it seemed reckless to consider a referendum.Of course the exact loss of GDP is impossible to predict. However, I guess no serious economist would dare to predict a bright future in the short or mid term.
This is no excuse though for not informing at all what leaving the EU would mean. Heck, I feel that every other European was better informed than the typical Brit.My concern for the UK is that we are an ageing population who aren't as good at manufacturing stuff as we used to be. In my opinion, the leave vote was reinforced by older people who still view the UK (and its future prospects) through rose tinted specs.Well, really? This is why the industrial production in Britain went down? It's not because the Brits decided to earn their money with financial trickery and didn't invest in modern production processes in the last 50 years?
Just to clarify, I didn't mean to imply we are getting bad at making things just because the population is ageing. Our manufacturing capabilities have been reduced alarmingly for various reasons and on top of this the population has an increasing proportion of old people that will require care/support.
It doesn't look good IMO.
It's not our capability that has been reduced, but our capacity
Not just limiting the numbers but also choosing the ones that bring more merit to your country.
That's the rational thing to do.
Life has a way of working out, it certainly has for me as it appears that I am free of M.E. now after suffering it for 5 years.
Fraser
Life has a way of working out, it certainly has for me as it appears that I am free of M.E. now after suffering it for 5 years.
that is not what he said. If you have an unskilled and a skilled polish worker and you choose the skilled over the unskilled that is not racism. To say that you won't take any polish workr because you hate them all is racist. lets at least get basic defenitions correct here please.
Selective immigration would take the skilled polish worker over the unskilled one, that's not racism. On average it would take Polish immigrants over say Roma immigrants though, that's what makes it racist.
The only point I was trying to make by saying only Putin is clapping was: when all your allies are face-palming (including your own government officials) and the only one cheering is the guy your country is currently having a major conflict with, then maybe you should consider if you might have made a mistake. Just sayin'.
I believe the Brexit vote result has far broader implications than I've seen discussed here. The neoliberal economic polices of the political class (from both the left and the right) and their corporate backers have been gutting the working and middle class for the past 30 years primarily by moving manufacturing to low wage and environmental-regulation-free developing countries.
The coordinated actions of the central bankers have served those same interests by punishing savers - encouraging borrowing and consumption of cheap consumer goods - all to the benefit of the financiers and trans-global corporate profits. Distract the masses with cheap gadgets and entertainment. Bread and circuses.
The EU and EMU have been a central front in this program. While their formation had good intent - a peaceful and united Europe to prevent a replay of the horrors of the last century's wars - it has more recently been used by the Troika as a tool to keep the neoliberal economic program from falling apart.
Without the ability to independently value their own currency, the southern European countries have had no tools to counteract the fallout from the borrow and spend mentality sold to them - turning them into debt serfs or essentially slaves of the Troika. The single currency was destined to cause failure of the EMU and EU eventually. This Brexit result only pushes up the timetable.
The Brits were smart enough to avoid that pitfall by staying out of the EMU but that has not protected them from the loss of manufacturing and now they've been faced with another side effect: The fallout from the endless middle east wars - with refugees on the doorstep and Muslims radicalized from decades of war and destruction.
All of this exactly mirrors the plight of the working and middle class here in the USA just as the Brexit vote is also mirrored by the Sanders and Trump phenomenon here.
All 3 of these things - Brexit, Sanders and Trump are signs that the establishment elites are loosing control. The are reaping what they have sown.
Many people are putting down their smartphones and waking up to what has been done to them. They may not understand exactly what has happened but they know they've been wronged and they are ready to do whatever it takes to disrupt the status quo - even if it means short term economic pain.
It's unfortunate that history has demonstrated that these type of transformations are never smooth and without turmoil (and often war). Displaced workers blame outsiders and clever politicians can feed on that natural human tendency. Unfortunately in doing so they give safe harbor to racists and xenophobes which while usually small in number are loud enough to allow unfair generalizations to be made about all those who rail against the status quo. The politicos are quick to exploit such divisions in Goebble - esk fashion - whipping up political tribalism and nationalist sentiments.
We live in dangerous times.
Not just limiting the numbers but also choosing the ones that bring more merit to your country.
That's the rational thing to do.
Rational yes, but by the common definition of racism, selective immigration is most definitely racist (ie. any mechanism which leads to unequal outcomes between races is racist).
that is not what he said. If you have an unskilled and a skilled polish worker and you choose the skilled over the unskilled that is not racism. To say that you won't take any polish workr because you hate them all is racist. lets at least get basic defenitions correct here please.
My local supermarket has an entire "Polish" aisle, yet I couldn't find any Mr. Sheen, Kiwi, nor Cherry Blossom there! What's the point in that?
From what I saw, the EU Commissioners comprise representatives of each member country. One for each. These individuals are selected by the each countries Government. What gets scary is that major decisions are made by the Commissioners without the presence of the countries PM or MEP's. Effectively a chamber of few individuals making massive decisions that effect 28 countries. That really does not seem like a great decision making structure to me !Not that I necessarily approve but it sounds like an excellent decision making structure.
As in a structure that can actually make decisions. Otherwise getting 28 countries to agree anything must be like herding cats.
The best form of government is a benign dictatorship by someone sufficiently wise.
The real problem with that is that dictators are rarely benign and tend to have a very idealized view of their own talent to ego ratio.
Not just limiting the numbers but also choosing the ones that bring more merit to your country.
That's the rational thing to do.... any mechanism which leads to unequal outcomes between races is racist.
Not just limiting the numbers but also choosing the ones that bring more merit to your country.
That's the rational thing to do.... any mechanism which leads to unequal outcomes between races is racist.
By that definition, our NFL is racist because its merit based player selection results in underrepresentation of white players.
You are diluting the term 'racist' to a point that it doesn't mean much.
Even though our 16 federal states differ a lot in culture and financial resources, this model of government works good enough for us to believe that something like this should be also possible on an European scale.
still not even a Bavarian would say he lost his cultural identity because Bavaria is a part of the German Federation.
Heck, not even the dumbest remaining German Nazi idiots ever uttered that desire after 1945.
I'm not sure if I find it amusing or frustrating to see people all over Europe always blame Germany for their misery based on a bizarre perception of the reality.
UK can get out from this current situation quite easily by setting up another round of the same vote. Of course the "winners" will say that the new round is not needed as the dice has already cast. But the winners should not be afraid of the new vote, if the vote result is real as the outcome of the new vote should be the same. The basis for the new vote is quite clear: