The 87v is a cat IV rated meter.
Lets see how your meters are working in 40 years then we can have a fair discussion of value vs price.
Lets see how your meters are working in 40 years then we can have a fair discussion of value vs price.
Flawed logic. Just because a meter from one brand survives harsh conditions and lasts for a long time doesn't mean a meter from another brand won't. We have eyes, we can see build quality.
Also, who realistically uses a 40 year old multimeter? That's a long period for anything. Scientific advancements give the potential for everything to improve.
Lets see how your meters are working in 40 years then we can have a fair discussion of value vs price.Flawed logic. Just because a meter from one brand survives harsh conditions and lasts for a long time doesn't mean a meter from another brand won't. We have eyes, we can see build quality.
No, it is not flawed logic. Put a percentage on it. What are the chances of equipment from a reputed brand with a proven track record with puddles of experience going the distance against equipment from the new kid on the block? Even if you think the difference is marginal, you'd be dishonest if you did not agree on at least a score favoring the reputed brand.
And while "eyes" may be a primary tool for any engineer, it's hardly sufficient to call build quality. There are *so* much factors to consider. Even if Brymen did not cut any corners and did everything to the absolute best of their abilities and knowledge, it's hard to imagine Fluke hasn't picked up a thing or two along the way the other folks are not aware of...
No one in this thread has said Brymen > Fluke. Brymen uses Fluke test equipment to calibrate their products...
Look at the title. We are arguing that the 87v is old and the BM869 is a better value, because it has improved specs, costs $100 less (more outside the U.S), and is built well to survive any lab use, and industrial use since it is also U.L listed and is praised by electricians. Prove us wrong.
Also, who realistically uses a 40 year old multimeter?
Flawed logic. Just because a meter from one brand survives harsh conditions and lasts for a long time doesn't mean a meter from another brand won't. We have eyes, we can see build quality.
Also, who realistically uses a 40 year old multimeter? That's a long period for anything. Scientific advancements give the potential for everything to improve.
Just because something appears to be the same, does not make them the same thing.
Mean Time Between Failures is a thing. MTBF on one meter from each vendor doesn't mean jack.
Use your eyes, tell me which of these is a genuine Bugatti Veyron:
Mean Time Between Failures is a thing. MTBF on one meter from each vendor doesn't mean jack.Not unless it specifies the usage conditions.
:stuff:
No, it is not flawed logic. Put a percentage on it. What are the chances of equipment from a reputed brand with a proven track record with puddles of experience going the distance against equipment from the new kid on the block? Even if you think the difference is marginal, you'd be dishonest if you did not agree on at least a score favoring the reputed brand.
And while "eyes" may be a primary tool for any engineer, it's hardly sufficient to call build quality. There are *so* much factors to consider. Even if Brymen did not cut any corners and did everything to the absolute best of their abilities and knowledge, it's hard to imagine Fluke hasn't picked up a thing or two along the way the other folks are not aware of...
No one in this thread has said Brymen > Fluke. Brymen uses Fluke test equipment to calibrate their products...
Look at the title. We are arguing that the 87v is old and the BM869 is a better value, because it has improved specs, costs $100 less (more outside the U.S), and is built well to survive any lab use, and industrial use since it is also U.L listed and is praised by electricians. Prove us wrong.
If you're going to claim the logic is flawed, it's first best to show the inconsistency, and second it's better not to create a new argument to attack, let alone one which relies on something subjective as "eyes."
Brymen is obviously a decent meter, and no one is saying those who purchased it made a mistake either. Honestly outside of US if the difference is greater than $100 for a 87v I can see why someone would prefer it over Fluke as it's much cheaper.
People perceive value differently however. To me there is not much difference between $200 and $300 when it comes to a DMM. When you pay that much for a meter you're paying for something that will last you 20-30+ years. That's less than $5 difference per year, for something you use daily it's negligible.
And then there is the resale value, you look at the 20-30 year old 87s which can still fetch $150-$200 on ebay depending on the condition.
Specs: I don't get impressed by the specs. For one Fluke is very conservative about their specs. Everyone knows that the accuracy listed on the specsheet is only what they guarantee, and that it's often vastly better than what the actual spec sheet says. The same is true for your HP/Agilent/Keysight and Keithley gear for instance.
Fluke has no incentive to push their published specs, since they have an established credibility. So in that regard I don't think the specs are as relevant. Companies who order large quantities of meters know to buy Fluke so I don't think Fluke is worried. Readings per second and capability is, sure, but not the accuracy. Brymen scores nicely spec wise, but the specs and price are also their only chance to compete with Fluke's reputation. Historically Fluke has always had competition which competed on specs, Brymen isn't the first and I am sure they aren't the last.
And then there is the build quality of the product. Again Fluke has an established reputation, and while Brymen is also of a good quality many who have used both will admit Fluke is a notch above.
For me personally I could see myself getting a Brymen BM869 one day because I do think it's a good meter, and I like test gear (don't we all?) but for my main meter, 87V is it. I've been out of electronics for a few years so when I came back I bought non Fluke, but that only reminded me of how much I missed my 87. I used one at the job in the 90s and I just remembered how much I loved using it.
Selling re-badged products, and also having such a wide range of quality from lowest to best, already makes me feel like they don't really give a crap about their brand beyond making some money.
Just off the top of my head, many Brymens have a crap continuity test, and even the 869, which is not bad, still isn't latching. They also have a crap warranty...1 year, I think. Fluke is Lifetime. Hey, no biggie. That doesn't make Brymen terrible meters, but the idea that it's somehow "just as good" as a Fluke fails miserably with only about a second's worth of thought. I don't even need to look at construction, performance, probes, etc.
re: Fluke Warranty
It's not 7-10 years. It's 7 years after it's discontinued, with a MINIMUM of 10 years from the purchase date.
In the US at least, the only legit source of Brymens off the top of my head is Greenlee, and the DM860A is a good bit more than a Fluke 87. Off Ebay, we're still paying $310 for a Brymen, and I can get an Fluke 87 new for $370. The Greenlee badged Brymen will cost over $400. If you're going to be priced this closely to Fluke, you really need to blow me away with specs AND give me warm fuzzies that you'll last 20+ years. Selling re-badged products, and also having such a wide range of quality from lowest to best, already makes me feel like they don't really give a crap about their brand beyond making some money.
Again, I really don't have anything against Brymen meters. I think they make a fine meter that will probably last a good long time. For a few bucks more (or a few bucks less if you're buying a Greenlee ), I can buy a Fluke that I KNOW will most likely outlast me. Like so many others, I've had my Fluke for a LONG time. It's had the crap beat out of it in some harsh settings, and has never done anything but work perfectly and reliably. It's hard to imagine why I would buy a Brymen, though I understand the pricing is much different outside of the US. If the price difference were $200 or more, I'd be a lot more inclined to take a chance.
Fluke is like Apple... huge profit margins, moderate specs.