Author Topic: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info  (Read 105327 times)

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Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #175 on: November 17, 2021, 04:36:32 am »
Just finish a panel with 0.4 mm pitch QFN-48. Finished shooting the video and currently editing. Will show the machine running the entire job.
Only couple of LED misplaced which was caused by the pneumatic feeder. Will swap them with the electrical feeder as I just bought 3 more.
 
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Offline koniu12

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #176 on: December 03, 2021, 11:15:01 am »
Here the software 8.8.0 : https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlpDZk9rY8_xavWN6vaTOT1QKhM?e=FHBGX4
If you have language problem, so restart the software few times.
Dont import the calibration, it changes to Chinese again.
I have made a new calibration of the machine without an import of the calibration file.
 
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Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #177 on: December 03, 2021, 11:53:09 am »
Here the software 8.8.0 : https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlpDZk9rY8_xavWN6vaTOT1QKhM?e=FHBGX4
If you have language problem, so restart the software few times.
Dont import the calibration, it changes to Chinese again.
I have made a new calibration of the machine without an import of the calibration file.

Thank you!

Already a few flags but look to be nothing major. Still not opening it on my main PC for sure xD
Will start to take a look into the software today. See what I can find.

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #178 on: December 03, 2021, 11:58:14 am »
Not too sure why you are sharing the software in public domain. It should be exclusive to machine owners.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 12:03:26 pm by 48X24X48X »
 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #179 on: December 03, 2021, 12:21:44 pm »
Not too sure why you are sharing the software in public domain. It should be exclusive to machine owners.

It is only for educational purposes. Not like we are here repacking the software to sell.
That and we can take a look at it and see what it is like before buying. Maybe even make improvements for those that do own it.

Offline koniu12

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #180 on: December 03, 2021, 03:34:37 pm »
I have asked the producer ! He gave me a "green light".
Probably can somebody find a problem with the language.
New calibration takes a lot of time...
« Last Edit: December 03, 2021, 03:37:36 pm by koniu12 »
 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #181 on: December 03, 2021, 03:44:07 pm »
It has a trial mode to lock out users who don't "own" the machine.
So it is not like they are not preventing people from using it.



Anyone able to confirm that they are using Goldvision or/and Jovision capture cards for the cameras? If so, it will a fun time trying to find a replacement...

I decompiled the main executable and currently sifting through it. The registration lock looks to be hardware ID encoded so even if you were to give out your registration key, that key only works for your hardware.
Code: [Select]
public string getDeviceSerialCode()
{
ManagementClass managementClass = new ManagementClass("Win32_Processor");
ManagementObjectCollection instances = managementClass.GetInstances();
string text = null;
using (ManagementObjectCollection.ManagementObjectEnumerator managementObjectEnumerator = instances.GetEnumerator())
{
if (managementObjectEnumerator.MoveNext())
{
ManagementObject managementObject = (ManagementObject)managementObjectEnumerator.Current;
text = managementObject.Properties["ProcessorId"].Value.ToString();
}
}
managementClass = new ManagementClass("Win32_BaseBoard");
instances = managementClass.GetInstances();
string text2 = null;
using (ManagementObjectCollection.ManagementObjectEnumerator managementObjectEnumerator2 = instances.GetEnumerator())
{
if (managementObjectEnumerator2.MoveNext())
{
ManagementObject managementObject2 = (ManagementObject)managementObjectEnumerator2.Current;
text2 = managementObject2.Properties["SerialNumber"].Value.ToString();
}
}
managementClass = new ManagementClass("Win32_PhysicalMedia");
instances = managementClass.GetInstances();
string text3 = null;
using (ManagementObjectCollection.ManagementObjectEnumerator managementObjectEnumerator3 = instances.GetEnumerator())
{
if (managementObjectEnumerator3.MoveNext())
{
ManagementObject managementObject3 = (ManagementObject)managementObjectEnumerator3.Current;
text3 = managementObject3.Properties["SerialNumber"].Value.ToString();
}
}
managementClass = new ManagementClass("Win32_BIOS");
instances = managementClass.GetInstances();
string text4 = null;
using (ManagementObjectCollection.ManagementObjectEnumerator managementObjectEnumerator4 = instances.GetEnumerator())
{
if (managementObjectEnumerator4.MoveNext())
{
ManagementObject managementObject4 = (ManagementObject)managementObjectEnumerator4.Current;
text4 = managementObject4.Properties["SerialNumber"].Value.ToString();
}
}
return text + "-" + text2 + "-" + text3 + "-" + text4;
}
That being said, not that hard to generate new hardware IDs or fool programs into believing it is another ID.
This means if you have an issue with the hardware and the vendor is not helping, having your original hardware IDs on hand and registration keys would allow you to put new hardware in and get everything back up and running.
It is being handled by the "moon_boxes.dll" so I am having a look through that now, but my skill set does not cover this sort of thing.
Code: [Select]
[DllImport("moon_boxes.dll", CallingConvention = CallingConvention.Cdecl)]
public static extern int moon_wind_checkget_software_state(ref byte ktime, ref byte is_h);

[DllImport("moon_boxes.dll", CallingConvention = CallingConvention.Cdecl)]
public static extern int moon_wind_set_key(string key, int size);

[DllImport("moon_boxes.dll", CallingConvention = CallingConvention.Cdecl)]
public static extern int moon_wind_get_key(ref byte key);

[DllImport("moon_boxes.dll", CallingConvention = CallingConvention.Cdecl)]
public static extern int moon_set_wind_devcode(string code, ref byte out_code, int size);

[DllImport("moon_boxes.dll", CallingConvention = CallingConvention.Cdecl)]
public static extern int moon_get_wind_devcode(ref byte out_code);

Does anyone else's "Device Code" look like this format?



https://github.com/HWGC-P-P/8.8.0-decompiled



Note that I am getting a few red flags on the EXEs
Though this is probably down to some of the hardware calls it tries to make at launch. (not an expert at this stuff so pinch of salt)
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/94ac80b8ef457a74a5d5d9683bd205abaadfa0ae7e23f449153f71ed822dd17c/detection
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/03ce766aee5457035521bc04c49d59207562ee4c48646d19097f89551c2e493a/detection
https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/734910538826b11d1fbce230a174c788308638aecb663ca40c71e2e82af81c63/detection



7PM Update
So looks like keys have a time and date set. Basically, if you have an old key prior to 2019, they ask for you to contact support for a new one.
If you have a key the lasts longer than 2035, it is a "Permanent License" and will stay unlocked forever.
Something tells me setting the BIOS clock will fix that if you have a license that will run out soon...  :-DD

There are several states that the license can be in within the code. Either one can get the DLL to report a false state or one could just work out the encoding of the hardware IDs to provide one's own serial to get around the hardware locks... Me thinks

9PM Update
Pretty sure I need to get the "moon_boxes.dll" function "moon_wind_checkget_software_state" to return a "1". That is all that is needed. But I don't know how to work with DLLs...

11PM Update

Managed to get the full readout of my hardware IDs. Started running it via the VS debugger so it does not have issues at the start with permissions.

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #182 on: December 03, 2021, 11:24:37 pm »
Think I bypassed some of the restrictions. If you want to test here is the 64 bit EXE https://github.com/HWGC-P-P/8.8.0-reworked/releases/tag/Patch
You won't get very far without a machine as it wants to connect to the controllers before really starting up.

It will still say "trial" and should allow you to connect to the machine, but actually being able to do anything beyond that, not sure.
PS, I am only doing this as the support given by HWGC & YX to members on this forum has been pretty poor and I think those people deserve to use their machines.

Obviously, this is just for educational purposes only. And should not be used for actual production work. No warranty given and I take 0 responsibility for it damaging anything.
No flags https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/a2eaa806246db3cada0f85bdfd1be4eb766775d16870452ee70675670792cd71/detection

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #183 on: December 04, 2021, 11:58:34 pm »
Now, I am having issues with the main SMT placement program, it fails with a cant find moon_boxes.dll which is installed and located exactly where it should be.

Not sure if you fixed this but moon_boxes.dll was built with Visual Studio 2010 so you need both x86 and x64 Microsoft Visual C++ 2010 Redistributables
https://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/download/details.aspx?id=26999


[edit]

I have been digging a bit into the camera software via the code and DLLs provided.

High cam looks to be an industrial-style camera from CatchBest.
It is the U3C500M/C going off the code calling for its driver and the spec sheet matches the resolution request from the code also.
http://www.catchbest.com/product/25-cn.html


Fast cams and Mark cam, while I don't know the camera hardware, the capture devices look to be PCI-E CCTV DVR cards by Jinan Jovision?
Jinan Jovision's own website (https://www.jovisionsecurity.com/) looks to have moved on from these devices but a USA company by the same name lists a few cards.
The code calls for a "JVS960S" which is very close to a "JVS-C960E" 8 channel PCIe card on the USA website. http://www.jovision-usa.com/c98chcldvrvi.html
Other calls in the software are for "JW6008HT", "MV360" and "JVS900 OR JVS960S"

There is a download here http://nvsip.com/en/techsupport/software/detail/5.shtml which includes the SDK.
The SDK and the one included in the SMT software both reference a JVS-C896 but the "legacy" DLL calls for the JVS-C900..?



As for the controller boards, they are custom-made by HWGC as far as I know. I have seen a video of them making them I think?
The software is looking for a CP210x USB to Serial device with "HWGC-QiGn" in the port name.
The software supports the full range of P&P machines from the SMT460 up to the DSQ800_120F. But there are only 6 control boards from the looks of it.


1PM Update
Further investigation into the code, the Fast and Mark cameras use the Jovision 4 or 8 or 16 channel PCI-E cameras.
Each machine model lists what driver set to use along with what channel each camera is on.
Only the DSQ800_120F makes use of the 16 channels so I suspect that the other machines all have 4 or 8 channel capture cards.
The calls made to each card driver are all pretty generic so the two included DLL SDKs can easily swap out, I would hazard a guess that you could swap out said DLLs with the ones for the JVS-C960E and JVS-C890H capture cards for example.


As for the other calls to the MV360, AHD8 and JW6008HT look to be other brands of capture cards that from the looks of it, they could swap out with the Jovision cards. But it does look like the code is more set up for the Jovision cards.

The only info I can find for the MV360 capture card is via this website. Though I can not confirm it is the correct card/info.
http://www.mv360.net/index_en.php It lists it as a USB, PCI or PCI-E capture card. From the looks of it, it is an 8 channel device.

For the JW6008HT, there is a reference to an "HV7000 4/8CH 960H PCIE DVR Card" in the code. No more info than that.
The AHD8 references a "QiGn_V8 PCIE Card".


8th Dec Update

Just remembered that MasterTech posted a photo of the PC and the PCI-E cards look completely different from the cards I have found online. They look pretty modern actually.
I am wondering if the cards they are using are made by Jovision or have the same chips or something as to make use of these DLLs? Maybe they have been left in as legacy code remains? But then why does the code call for those drivers? So many questions!
Hopefully, MasterTech can let us know the model number?

Looks a lot like this actually... Even the cable.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/32874165320.html

I have compiled everything I know so far about the machines hardware and software on this Github page. https://github.com/HWGC-P-P/Wiki/blob/main/README.md

Offline hoooooonza

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #184 on: December 07, 2021, 11:10:56 pm »
Quick update: Still not running.

It took FOREVER to get Win7 64 to accept cd/dvd/usb drivers to actually install. Now, I am having issues with the main SMT placement program, it fails with a cant find moon_boxes.dll which is installed and located exactly where it should be. I also cant load pcie drivers because there is a signing error. I cant update the .net framework because it reports that the root certificate is bad yet I pulled this right off the MS website, and finally I cant get the fast cam driver from their link because apparently whatever they've created in the file is in violation of Google Drives terms of service and its inaccessible.

As for Jim, well, after saying they can no longer help and I should find someone in my own country, has stopped answering emails. I have begged for a clone image of a working drive and have offered to pay. Crickets.

Also to note, they seem to use an unregistered copy of windows and seem to have some work around that stops it asking for you to register it. Knowing this makes me a lot less resistant to someone copying and hacking their software.

At this point, I own a $13000, 5 month old, 450lb brick that is costing me money in lost production every single day. F 'em. Copy their damn software.

Did you solve this somehow?
 

Offline svenskelektronik

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #185 on: December 08, 2021, 09:22:57 am »
It's mind boggling that they don't provide support on this hard drive issue, especially since the machines are not old at all!

I was thinking about buying one of these machines to have on the side for some smaller runs, but now I'm leaning towards buying a Neoden K1830 instead.
 

Offline JacksterTopic starter

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #186 on: December 09, 2021, 11:51:30 pm »
It's mind boggling that they don't provide support on this hard drive issue, especially since the machines are not old at all!

I was thinking about buying one of these machines to have on the side for some smaller runs, but now I'm leaning towards buying a Neoden K1830 instead.

So am I. Their machines look to be a lot more technically advanced than HWGC machines and support is better.
I have been following Unexpected Maker for the past year and he looks to be having great success with his machine.


HWGC is 35% cheaper than NeoDen after shipping for the 64/66 feeder options with the included "free" feeders and shipping.
NeoDen K1830 64 feeder is £11,500 plus ~£1,500 door to door
HWGC 64 feeder is £9,000 shipped to your port, not including import costs. (includes about 20, 8mm feeders at $50 each).


So it really comes down to the machine performance, hardware, software, and after-sales support.

I have the HWGC software unlocked already. So now software support is not much of an issue outside of bug fixing and new features.
It really comes down to the hardware aspect which is why I have been trying for the past few months to document the insides of these machines so one can have a better idea of how to get them up and running again when the after-sales support lets you down. And they will...

Like can we get a replacement camera card when these machines go EOL, or a control board for the steppers/drivers?
What is off the shelf and what is custom made? Does someone have stock locally so we can get back up and running within a week and not a month?

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #187 on: December 10, 2021, 12:43:19 am »
Nearly bought a Neoden 4 back in 2015 when I visited their factory but decided it was having such a fiddly feeder system and awful software interface. It was expensive too. Then when S1 came out, they wanted to sell me one even before it was released, it was out of my budget back then but glad that I didn't buy in as it turns out to be pulled out from the market shortly after launched due to numerous issues. I never look back at Neoden ever since. As someone that combed through nearly all the pick and place made in China through factory visits, I never see Neoden as a proper "industrial" player in China domestic market and they never were. In fact, the HWGC and it's similar peers like Kayo, Boreytech (both HWGC, & Kayo/Bovi originated from Boreytech's ex-employees) are the ones that a lot of China factories actually use. The whole HWGC "not so nice customer service experience" came from the fact that a bulk (when I say bulk, they sold a truckloads of them) of these machine were sold by the reseller YX and YX as a reseller is never going to be the best in providing after sales service. My opinion might be bias as I personally became friends with people that runs HWGC after my visit to their factories and they in return gave the best customer support any machine owner can dream of. In any instant I have an issue or question, I just need to message them over WeChat and I get my answer straight away. Even when I accidentally damaged my machine's 4-head, parts get shipped over by my reseller (Beijing Glichn, again they are long time partners of HWGC) with help from HWGC in just few days. I was guided through on the repairs and machine was up and running again less than a week. Neoden might have your shiny "English" marketing and English speaking sales person, but I feel that they were never really focus and consistent (you can just look at how different machine running different feeders, different software and even different OS) and the whole S1 model episode really turns me off. The software support of HWGC machine that goes all the way back to their old belt driven machine really shows you they cared about their old customers. In fact, their old customers made a bulk of their new machine purchases due to this. I personally felt that for the price you pay for a HWGC machine, you get a lot of solid hardware for a very small price. And if you have watch my videos on their software, it ain't too shabby too. This year marked their first hooray in selling to international market directly officially and I believe this will fix most of the support issue that were faced by customers bought from YX. On the spare parts, if you have visited their factory before, you will be shocked how much spare parts they kept in their inventory. So, I have no worries on that.

On a side note, @JMG's HDD issue, I managed to get HWGC's guy to help him out. His machine is running albeit still having some small minor issue. I will leave it to @JMG to comment on this once he is free to do so. All I know is he is busy churning out boards till the wee hours in the morning when I last spoken to him a few days ago.
 
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Offline svenskelektronik

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #188 on: December 10, 2021, 11:47:46 am »
Glad you didn't buy the Neoden 4. I've played with that machine for a while and it has a lot of issues, especially the feeders and software. However the K1830 looks a lot better but there is not that much information out there so hard to know for sure. What I can say about Neoden is that their support i excellent and spare parts will be provided in a speedy manner directly from them.

HWGC on the other hand seems to have excellent hardware that is proven (except hard disk drive ;) ). Software is not bad but not good, seems stable at least. What worries me is the reseller situation that brings low confidence with support and spares, and it seems to be the case with some resellers.

If I change my mind and still want to buy a HWGC machine, I would prefer to buy it straight from factory. However some people here on the forum says that the factory connection is just another reseller that have permission to use the HWGC name, whats your take on that?

Do HWGC have any homepage? Cant find it.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #189 on: December 10, 2021, 12:08:23 pm »
Glad you didn't buy the Neoden 4. I've played with that machine for a while and it has a lot of issues, especially the feeders and software. However the K1830 looks a lot better but there is not that much information out there so hard to know for sure. What I can say about Neoden is that their support i excellent and spare parts will be provided in a speedy manner directly from them.

HWGC on the other hand seems to have excellent hardware that is proven (except hard disk drive ;) ). Software is not bad but not good, seems stable at least. What worries me is the reseller situation that brings low confidence with support and spares, and it seems to be the case with some resellers.

If I change my mind and still want to buy a HWGC machine, I would prefer to buy it straight from factory. However some people here on the forum says that the factory connection is just another reseller that have permission to use the HWGC name, whats your take on that?

Do HWGC have any homepage? Cant find it.
Their official website.
Official Alibaba page.
You can buy direct from them if you want. They only started direct selling from this year onward although some that know them personally has been buying direct for quite some time. I know there's my fellow Malaysian who did just that.
 
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Offline svenskelektronik

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #190 on: December 11, 2021, 11:03:01 am »
I watched your on the machine. It's very helpful, thank you!

The software has some good features, it not to bad! And they seem to improve with every new version.
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #191 on: December 11, 2021, 11:44:32 am »
Thank you!
I think the software is intuitive enough to use. Once you understand the flow of work, you moves pretty fast on setting up a project. At the time of writing this, works is already on the way on a totally new ground up software. Other than their software, I think ZhengBang's software is also very nice and intuitive to use. The rest in the market is so so only.

Online NorthGuy

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #192 on: December 11, 2021, 03:11:09 pm »
- 3x 8 mm electrical feeder

If this is not a secret, where did you buy them and what was the price per unit?
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #193 on: December 12, 2021, 12:28:24 am »
- 3x 8 mm electrical feeder

If this is not a secret, where did you buy them and what was the price per unit?
I bought from Beijing Glichn (they got it from HWGC I think) for $145 and Shenzhen Wenzhan Electronic on Alibaba for $165 (paid higher because I bought some larger pneumatic feeder for a lot less compared to other seller, so I didn't bother to do a separate purchase). I did managed to find the manufacturer of this electric feeder based on the company name on the feeder but they were selling at even higher price. I think it's a way to protect their reseller to international market. So, I'll just stick to that 2 reseller. No more buying 8 mm pneumatic. I think they are bang for bucks as they can do 0201, 0402 and others 4 mm pocket pitch components all on the same feeder. The tape advancing process is so smooth and gentle that I rarely have light components jumping out of the pocket anymore. And I love the fact that you lose 3 components only when swapping out the reel compared to 6 components on a pneumatic feeder.

Online NorthGuy

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #194 on: December 12, 2021, 05:24:20 am »
I bought from Beijing Glichn (they got it from HWGC I think) for $145 and Shenzhen Wenzhan Electronic on Alibaba for $165

Thank you!
 

Offline hoooooonza

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #195 on: December 13, 2021, 10:49:59 am »
Thank you!
I think the software is intuitive enough to use. Once you understand the flow of work, you moves pretty fast on setting up a project. At the time of writing this, works is already on the way on a totally new ground up software. Other than their software, I think ZhengBang's software is also very nice and intuitive to use. The rest in the market is so so only.

So HWGC is working on completely new softare? :)
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #196 on: December 13, 2021, 10:55:57 am »
That's what I was told.

Online NorthGuy

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #197 on: December 13, 2021, 04:51:25 pm »
The tape advancing process is so smooth and gentle that I rarely have light components jumping out of the pocket anymore.

Don't they have a lid which keeps the pocket covered until the tape stops?
 

Offline 48X24X48X

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #198 on: December 13, 2021, 04:55:55 pm »
Unlike the pneumatic counterpart, it doesn't have a shutter that close and open. Instead the components are covered by a stagnant metal piece and only moves to the exposed area when advanced for picking. I can take a photo tomorrow if you need a clear image of that.

Online NorthGuy

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Re: HWGC P&P machines - Documentation, Discussion and Info
« Reply #199 on: December 13, 2021, 06:12:31 pm »
Unlike the pneumatic counterpart, it doesn't have a shutter that close and open. Instead the components are covered by a stagnant metal piece and only moves to the exposed area when advanced for picking. I can take a photo tomorrow if you need a clear image of that.

The lid seems more reliable. Does the smoothness of the move make the lid obsolete?

Yes, please post pictures if possible.
 


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