Tariffs

[PlainName]

She was silently praying.

Wrong:

"Tossici-Bolt had stood with a sign reading: “Here to talk, if you want” facing the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS) clinic, which was previously targeted by anti-abortion activists who had gathered nearby before Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole council put the order in place."

if ones' house is inside an exclusion zone, then one can be guilty of an offense, even if they're silently in prayer inside their own house.

Wrong:

"Under the Public Order Act 2023, it is an offence for someone to, within this area, do anything that intentionally or recklessly influences someone’s decision to use abortion services, obstructs them, or causes harassment, alarm or distress to someone using or working at the premises."

Trying not to stray into politics, but letting falsehoods go is exactly how conspiracy shit propagates and becomes 'truth'.

[Marco]

If products started arriving "Made by penguins on an uninhabited island" it would be rather obvious that it was fraudulent and denied entry or have penalty rates applied.  Claiming "it's a loophole" is almost as much nonsense as the rates to begin with.

Tariffs are applied based on the country the item was made/assembled in, not from where it was shipped.

This is true for extreme cases, but for say Vietnam it's not so easily policed. So instead of policing it, Vietnam got hit with massive tariffs. The formula allows no leakage, just like import certificates would allow no leakage.

The pace at which these tariffs are being implemented is disastrous, but the desire for trade balance can easily be economically justified from the point of view of more classical economics which didn't just pretend mercantilism and protectionism are never justified and can never achieve goals. Because they obviously are and can, modern economists are dangerously deceptive. The status quo was just as insane as the current situation.

Good old Keynes wanted to enforce trade balance too with Bancor.

[tggzzz]

She was silently praying.

Wrong:

"Tossici-Bolt had stood with a sign reading: “Here to talk, if you want” facing the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS) clinic, which was previously targeted by anti-abortion activists who had gathered nearby before Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole council put the order in place."

if ones' house is inside an exclusion zone, then one can be guilty of an offense, even if they're silently in prayer inside their own house.

Wrong:

"Under the Public Order Act 2023, it is an offence for someone to, within this area, do anything that intentionally or recklessly influences someone’s decision to use abortion services, obstructs them, or causes harassment, alarm or distress to someone using or working at the premises."

Trying not to stray into politics, but letting falsehoods go is exactly how conspiracy shit propagates and becomes 'truth'.

Just so.

It isn't a surprise that the people who shout "fake news" most frequently are the ones that propagate it most frequently.

[Ranayna]

And now we have reached abortion rights? 
This community never ceases to surprise me... I know no other forum (in which i am at least somewhat active) that has threads derailing this commonly and widely.

On topic:
Framework, maker of somehwat modular laptop computers, has announced that their lowest priced models will not be available in the US anymore. They would have to rise the prices too much and would not be competetive anymore.
https://www.heise.de/en/news/Because-of-Trump-s-tariffs-Framework-takes-cheap-laptops-off-sale-in-the-USA-10343928.html

Gamers might already have heard that Nintendo will not offer the Switch 2 for pre-order in the US, since they do not know yet how to price it.

[sleemanj]

This is true for extreme cases, but for say Vietnam it's not so easily policed. So instead of policing it, Vietnam got hit with massive tariffs. The formula allows no leakage, just like import certificates would allow no leakage.

The calculation applied for Vietnam is exactly the same as was applied for every other country, it's no different, they got a high tariff applied because the trade deficit the US has with them is high, no more no less, "Vietnam is secretly shipping Chinese products" isn't a factor in the equation other than if they are doing it **so much** that it is a large reason for the deficit.

I have seen rando people on the interwebs postulate that vietnam is guilty of such, I have not seen any actual evidence presented by said randos.  Vietnam legit manufactures a lot of goods which are readily purchased by US consumers, and which I would wager is a much more likely reason that they have a large trade imbalance than any fake country of origin business.

[Marco]

Vietnam legit manufactures a lot of goods which are readily purchased by US consumers, and which I would wager is a much more likely reason that they have a large trade imbalance than any fake country of origin business.

How much of it is minimal value added final assembly for plausible deniability?

[vad]

Did it ever occur to you that such islands can be used as loopholes to get around tarrifs?
Maybe it's not such a dumb decision, it's just closing a possible loophole. The opposite of dumb, it's very smart, someone was thinking ahead.

Ah, that explains why Belarus has not been hit by the tariffs!

Unlike the uninhibited islands, Belarus is well known as the largest loophole in Europe. Following Russia’s ban on Western food imports in 2014, Belarus became the largest exporter of seafood, such as shrimp, into Russia, … despite being a landlocked country.

[Zero999]

She was silently praying.

Wrong:

"Tossici-Bolt had stood with a sign reading: “Here to talk, if you want” facing the British Pregnancy Advisory Service (BPAS) clinic, which was previously targeted by anti-abortion activists who had gathered nearby before Bournemouth, Christchurch and Poole council put the order in place."

if ones' house is inside an exclusion zone, then one can be guilty of an offense, even if they're silently in prayer inside their own house.

Wrong:

"Under the Public Order Act 2023, it is an offence for someone to, within this area, do anything that intentionally or recklessly influences someone’s decision to use abortion services, obstructs them, or causes harassment, alarm or distress to someone using or working at the premises."

Trying not to stray into politics, but letting falsehoods go is exactly how conspiracy shit propagates and becomes 'truth'.

Wrong. The one I was talking about was praying silently in her head, not holding a sign. Fortunately she was cleared.
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/c4gze361j7xo

This is why it's important to be specific about the case you're talking about.

And even in the case of holding a sign, it's not harassment.

[PlainName]

"Livia Tossici-Bolt, an anti-abortion campaigner whose case has been cited by the US state department over “freedom of expression” concerns in the UK"

That one?

[Zero999]

"Livia Tossici-Bolt, an anti-abortion campaigner whose case has been cited by the US state department over “freedom of expression” concerns in the UK"

That one?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/tariffs/msg5874376/#msg5874376
The person I was responded to did not mention which case they're referring to, so I assumed it was Isabel Vaughan-Spruce.

If what you said that the Public Order Act 2023 was true, then she wouldn't have been arrested.

[EEVblog]

"Livia Tossici-Bolt, an anti-abortion campaigner whose case has been cited by the US state department over “freedom of expression” concerns in the UK"

That one?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/tariffs/msg5874376/#msg5874376
The person I was responded to did not mention which case they're referring to, so I assumed it was Isabel Vaughan-Spruce.

If what you said that the Public Order Act 2023 was true, then she wouldn't have been arrested.

Keep it up and this thread gets locked.

[tggzzz]

"Livia Tossici-Bolt, an anti-abortion campaigner whose case has been cited by the US state department over “freedom of expression” concerns in the UK"

That one?

https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/tariffs/msg5874376/#msg5874376
The person I was responded to did not mention which case they're referring to, so I assumed it was Isabel Vaughan-Spruce.

If what you said that the Public Order Act 2023 was true, then she wouldn't have been arrested.

Keep it up and this thread gets locked.

Please do just that.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

About the uninhabited is ( and some inhabited )  Islands. Creative people can find ways around tax law, and using   a location like these is one of them.     
Back in the Prohibition Era  (US) St Pierre was a common location for importing liquor and then running it illegally into the US.   Actually quite a nice location, a part of France surrounded by Canadian Is...     
Also a location for a Canadian TV Show.     
Al Capone used the Is and I think the senior Kennedy did so also.   
Just an example of how  people got around laws

[tggzzz]

About the uninhabited is ( and some inhabited )  Islands. Creative people can find ways around tax law, and using   a location like these is one of them.     
Back in the Prohibition Era  (US) St Pierre was a common location for importing liquor and then running it illegally into the US.   Actually quite a nice location, a part of France surrounded by Canadian Is...     
Also a location for a Canadian TV Show.     
Al Capone used the Is and I think the senior Kennedy did so also.   
Just an example of how  people got around laws

That might have some validity if other similar islands[1] had also been included. They weren't; the Heard and MacDonald Islands were singled out for tariffs.

Why those islands and no others?

Complex explanation with no visible rationale: part of some Bigly Wonderful Strutegy [sic].
Simple explanation with too much visible rational: ignorance and stupidity.
Which one is more likely.

[1] e.g. Rockall, similarly uninhabited and part of the territory of a state that has had explicit tariffs applied (UK and Australia being the other states). No doubt there are many many other examples.

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

Just to be sure:  I believe St Pierre et Miquelon was included.   And I do not believe there are any indigenous penguins about.

[PlainName]

If the US has put 100% tariff on Chinese goods, does that mean that Aliexpress is going to be dumping stuff dead cheap here in the UK?

[Smoky]

I just wished that Trump would've forced Starmer to sweep up all of the trash and collect the garbage cans laying in the streets of London and throughout the countryside before any tariff deal was made. The cities in the UK look like third-world hellholes somewhere deep inside Pakistan

https://vidmax.com/video/232328-tourist-in-london-is-shocked-by-what-he-sees

[tggzzz]

I just wished that Trump would've forced Starmer to sweep up all of the trash and collect the garbage cans laying in the streets of London and throughout the countryside before any tariff deal was made. The cities in the UK look like third-world hellholes somewhere deep inside Pakistan

https://vidmax.com/video/232328-tourist-in-london-is-shocked-by-what-he-sees

Please don't feed the troll.

[vad]

About the uninhabited is ( and some inhabited )  Islands. Creative people can find ways around tax law, and using   a location like these is one of them.     
Back in the Prohibition Era  (US) St Pierre was a common location for importing liquor and then running it illegally into the US.   Actually quite a nice location, a part of France surrounded by Canadian Is...     
Also a location for a Canadian TV Show.     
Al Capone used the Is and I think the senior Kennedy did so also.   
Just an example of how  people got around laws

That might have some validity if other similar islands[1] had also been included. They weren't; the Heard and MacDonald Islands were singled out for tariffs.

This, along with another strange fact: real countries, not deserted islands, that are known export loopholes, such as Belarus, were excluded from the tariffs.

I understand that right-aligned media are trying to find any justification for the mishap with taxing the penguins. But the claim that this is about preventing potential loopholes is utterly rubbish.

[tggzzz]

About the uninhabited is ( and some inhabited )  Islands. Creative people can find ways around tax law, and using   a location like these is one of them.     
Back in the Prohibition Era  (US) St Pierre was a common location for importing liquor and then running it illegally into the US.   Actually quite a nice location, a part of France surrounded by Canadian Is...     
Also a location for a Canadian TV Show.     
Al Capone used the Is and I think the senior Kennedy did so also.   
Just an example of how  people got around laws

That might have some validity if other similar islands[1] had also been included. They weren't; the Heard and MacDonald Islands were singled out for tariffs.

This, along with another strange fact: real countries, not deserted islands, that are known export loopholes, such as Belarus, were excluded from the tariffs.

Plus more tellingly, President Chamberlain's Trump's new peace-loving BFF, A. Hitler V. Putin's country escaped tariffs. Why, exactly?

I understand that right-aligned media are trying to find any justification for the mishap with taxing the penguins. But the claim that this is about preventing potential loopholes is utterly rubbish.

Such efforts only concentrate attention on the intelligent idiots and on the idiotic policy.

[vad]

Plus more tellingly, President Chamberlain's Trump's new peace-loving BFF, A. Hitler V. Putin's country escaped tariffs. Why, exactly?

Excluding Russia from the tariffs regime is another example of inconsistency (at best) but of a different kind.

I intentionally picked Belarus instead of Russia, because people who only consume Murdoch’s media would immediately respond with the idiotic talking point that “Russia is engaged in peace negotiations”, and that now is not the best time to introduce new terms to a peace agreement.

Well, Belarus isn’t involved in any peace talks with the US. They’re not even at war (or in a “special military operation”) with Ukraine. So why was Belarus excluded then?

As for Russia’s exclusion: Ukraine is also part of those same peace negotiations with the US. So why was Ukraine slapped with the 10% tax, while Russia wasn’t?

[vad]

I hope someone makes a great movie about the decision-making process behind the tariffs. It could be a dark comedy, in the style of Pulp Fiction and Burn After Reading.

It should feature Jared Kushner buying a book on Amazon by Peter Navarro, which relies on the solid foundation of the economic genius Ron Vara. Jared then explains the book’s summary to a young Donald. Donald, inspired, hires a team that supports Ron’s great tariff ideas and begins implementing them enthusiastically.

In parallel, some of Donald’s relatives, who easily fall under Russian propaganda on X, start lobbying for the exclusion of Russia and its close allies Belarus and North Korea from the tariffs at the last moment.

At the end of the movie, after all the chaos that follows, it’s revealed that Ron Vara is a completely fictional character invented by Peter for the book Jared randomly picked on Amazon.

Edit: The movie would be rated R for drug scenes involving a billionaire, adult content featuring porn actresses, and alcohol use by a cabinet member with a history of heavy drinking.

[TimFox]

In today's New York Times, Professor Brent Neiman of the University of Chicago responded to the Trump tariff decisions.
"The White House mangled my research to justify those insane tariffs."
Specifically, he is one of four authors of a paper cited in the official release (by the Office of the US Trade Representative) about the method used to calculate the "reciprocal tariff" impositions.
Of course, as an economist, he starts by asserting that eliminating bilateral trade deficits between the US and each of its trading partners (singly and severally) is absurd.
However, their paper (cited as "Cavallo et al" by the government) studied Chinese exports between 2018 and 2019, to see quantitatively what fraction of the tariff was "passed through" to the consumer:  the co-efficient was about 0.95 (95% of the tariff passed through).
He continued by arguing that, even "granting Trump his goal of eliminating all trade deficits" for sake of argument, that they misquoted that paper and did the math wrong, resulting in an overestimate of required tariffs by roughly a factor of 4.

[TimFox]

It is a poor country, that probably cannot afford much imports from the US.
It's major export to the US is diamonds, which are pricey.
In my professional career, I often used extreme cases to evaluate proposed solutions, such as reducing the resistance to zero to see if the theory gave a believable result.

In this case, if the tariffs result in the diamonds all going elsewhere and mutual trade between Lesotho and the US becomes zero, the formula will have been correct as trade balance will have been acheived.

Today, I learned more about Lesotho and the new 47% tariff levy on the small country. 
Besides diamonds, they also export denim clothing to the US.
A large ratio in the trade balance:  $240 million export to US vs. only $3 million import from US;  their GDP is only $2 billion, with $975 per capita income.
Trump's commercial range of golf clothing includes shirts from Lesotho.
In general, the new tariffs hit Africa hard, while China increases trade with the continent, and US foreign aid is being cut dramatically.

[floobydust]

US Trade Rep Jamieson Greer:
"We must move away from an economy based solely on the financial sector and government spending, and we must become an economy based on producing real goods and services".

Peter Navarro is following his policy paper "The Case for Fair Trade" and the guy is bang on when it comes to unfair trade practices. "The stark lesson of this chapter is that America gets fleeced every day in the global marketplace both by a predatory Communist China and by an institutionally unfair and nonreciprocal WTO".
He also has a 2011 book "Death by China" (movie in 2012?) I've never looked into.
But... they went after him and he was in prison for bit.

I have to laugh "Navarro described Musk as a 'car assembler,' and claimed his Tesla vehicles required parts manufactured in foreign countries including China, Japan, and Taiwan."
"He's a car person. That's what he does, and he wants the cheap foreign parts."

So that has pissed off Elon.