Tariffs

[zapta]

Recently announced US tariffs target America’s neighbors and traditional friends, as well as its adversaries.
Should that be regarded positively by them?

It targets countries with imbalanced trade, and I expect them to understand and to cooperate in balancing the trade.

[Monkeh]

Recently announced US tariffs target America’s neighbors and traditional friends, as well as its adversaries.
Should that be regarded positively by them?

It targets countries with imbalanced trade, and I expect them to understand and to cooperate in balancing the trade.

How about no? If you want to sell more goods to other countries, you should try making goods they want at a price they're willing to pay. That's what they're doing to you.

[TimFox]

Recently announced US tariffs target America’s neighbors and traditional friends, as well as its adversaries.
Should that be regarded positively by them?

It targets countries with imbalanced trade, and I expect them to understand and to cooperate in balancing the trade.

Have you looked  at the target list?
Canada's trade with the US is not very imbalanced, but the announced tariffs against Canada are substantial.
https://www.tradecomplianceresourcehub.com/2025/04/18/trump-2-0-tariff-tracker/

[Wallace Gasiewicz]

The US National debt is not the result of other entities buying the debt, it is the result of the Govt spending more than it takes in.     
But you are correct, the big danger to the country is that it runs out of other people's money and then there will be big trouble.
    Quote

  As far as i understand from the experts: The US national debt is the result of the tremendous capital flow from all over the world into US $ and US treasuries. They were considered safe. Although it is kind of a snowball system, as the national debt is increasing rapidly. As soon as China or BRICS can offer more convincing investments the US may run out of funds. The new tariffs can't substitute capital flow into the US.

[Monkeh]

Recently announced US tariffs target America’s neighbors and traditional friends, as well as its adversaries.
Should that be regarded positively by them?

It targets countries with imbalanced trade, and I expect them to understand and to cooperate in balancing the trade.

Have you looked  at the target list?
Canada's trade with the US is not very imbalanced, but the announced tariffs against Canada are substantial.
https://www.tradecomplianceresourcehub.com/2025/04/18/trump-2-0-tariff-tracker/

Ah, but you see, that's because of the drugs. Yes, the drugs produced south of the USA which are somehow coming across the northern border.. Don't worry about the firearms coming into Canada from the USA, though. They're harmless.

Oh, yes, and don't forget the digital services, where it's unfair for other countries to protect their local industries and the rights of their citizens from predatory American companies.

[zapta]

If you want to sell more goods to other countries, you should try making goods they want at a price they're willing to pay. That's what they're doing to you.

I have heard here many time about the barriers that Europeans face from their governments and carriers when ordering products from abroad. Trump's tariffs makes it more symmetrical.

The US is a sovereign country and doesn't owe you a thing.

[Monkeh]

If you want to sell more goods to other countries, you should try making goods they want at a price they're willing to pay. That's what they're doing to you.

I have heard here many time about the barriers that Europeans face from their governments and carriers when ordering products from abroad. Trump's tariffs makes it more symmetrical.

And yet the biggest barrier I've ever faced ordering products from the US is the US itself. Tariffs don't make it symmetrical - they're a standin for taxes you've chosen not to charge, and ones Trump is lying to the people about, suggesting they're being paid by foreign countries for the privilege of selling products to you.

The US is a sovereign country and doesn't owe you a thing.

The rest of the world consists of sovereign countries and doesn't owe you a thing. So why, exactly, do you expect us to help you?

[tom66]

Education is their strategy.

Meanwhile, it seems that many other countries are chronically underinvesting in education or are indeed trying to disrupt or defund it in various ways (without getting too political).

This will mean the difference when it comes to the next 20-30 years.  And it's the reason tariffs will fail in the end.

The US has great universities but without an educated younger population to feed into them how can they expect to compete for these high tech manufacturing jobs that the US wants to bring onshore?  Making the next generation of ASICs at nanometer or below is something done by PhDs in various physical sciences and masters of engineering graduates. 

[zapta]

Trump is lying to the people about, suggesting they're being paid by foreign countries for the privilege of selling products to you.

If you don't pay, why do you care? Leave it to the Americans.

[MT]

Trumps cabinet when they found out tariffs backfire'd...

[Monkeh]

Trump is lying to the people about, suggesting they're being paid by foreign countries for the privilege of selling products to you.

If you don't pay, why do you care? Leave it to the Americans.

The selective quoting to avoid actual discourse is getting old.

Why do I care? Because the actions being taken affect everyone. Because I have many friends in America and other countries facing serious financial disruption as a result. Because you're here demanding other nations harm themselves to benefit you.

[Marco]

As far as i understand from the experts: The US national debt is the result of the tremendous capital flow from all over the world into US $ and US treasuries. They were considered safe. Although it is kind of a snowball system, as the national debt is increasing rapidly. As soon as China or BRICS can offer more convincing investments the US may run out of funds. The new tariffs can't substitute capital flow into the US.
Above somebody wrote about 30 000 Chinese students at US universities. As far as i remember roughly 2 Mio engineers finish in China every year. Education is their strategy.

During the last 30 years China's real GDP growth rate exceeded the US, yet they invested in USD assets. Why? They were playing the zero sum game of attracting industry, nothing to do with investing, just mercantilism and militarized economics (ie. far more interested in essential industries which could be monopolized than those which could not).

Autarky for China, dependence for the west, that is clearly part of Pooh's planning. Massive currency manipulation clearly one of their means, you'd have to have an economics PhD not to see it. Trump insanely trying to fix 30 years of that insanity overnight doesn't suddenly make the previous insanity more sane. The moment globalist peace became obviously impossible due to Putler and Pooh, the west should have stopped listening to Davos and their economist lapdogs.

Globalism was a means to the cause of peace, not making a dictatorship the dominant superpower.

[tggzzz]

Recently announced US tariffs target America’s neighbors and traditional friends, as well as its adversaries.
Should that be regarded positively by them?

It targets countries with imbalanced trade, and I expect them to understand and to cooperate in balancing the trade.

I expect my barber to balance his trade with me.

[tggzzz]

Recently announced US tariffs target America’s neighbors and traditional friends, as well as its adversaries.
Should that be regarded positively by them?

It targets countries with imbalanced trade, and I expect them to understand and to cooperate in balancing the trade.

Well, the Heard Island's (explicit 10% tariff) inhabitants clearly like guns, so why not sell them some more. Will that be sufficient for Trump to reduce the tariff rate?

[dietert1]

Tariffs of more than 100 % to be paid by overseas vendors essentially mean: You can give us your merchandise for free plus some extra money for our government. Presents instead of debt. Only a "stable genius" and his fans will believe in that.
China is using economy to try and break the expensive US military dominance. They copy what the US and Europe did to the Soviet union.

Regards, Dieter

[Marco]

I expect my barber to balance his trade with me.

If my barber had nukes and the only reason I was trading with him was to pacify him and to make sure he didn't give an unfriendly neighbor who als has nukes a haircut, and if he did anyway and was slowly using proceeds from my haircuts to get a monopoly on dentistry in my neighbourhood, I'd seek a different barber.

The pacification failed, all that remains is making them more dangerous.

[Marco]

They copy what the US and Europe did to the Soviet union.

I don't recall the US having most favoured nation status with the USSR while a third party tribunal easily gamed by the US regulated their trade.

It no longer makes sense nor is there any moral obligation for the west to have free trade with China. They are not moving towards a democracy.

[PlainName]

Tariffs of more than 100 % to be paid by overseas vendors essentially mean: ...

Tariffs are not paid by overseas vendors - they are paid by the local consumer. So when Trump says they've already made tens of billions from the tariffs, what he really means (if he's not fibbing about the amount) is that US buyers have paid that much to their own government.

It's possible that some vendors may elect to cover some of the cost of the tariff in order to remain in the market, but they'd be doing that for pure business reasons - it is not them that pays the tariff even then.

[tggzzz]

Tariffs of more than 100 % to be paid by overseas vendors essentially mean: You can give us your merchandise for free plus some extra money for our government. Presents instead of debt. Only a "stable genius" and his fans will believe in that.
China is using economy to try and break the expensive US military dominance. They copy what the US and Europe did to the Soviet union.

The tariffs won't, of course "be paid by overseas vendor" any more than Mexico "will pay for the wall". Purchasers in the US will pay the tariffs, to the US government.

China isn't "using the economy to try the expensive US military dominance". China could, and I expect will, use it as a big pressure point on the US. Expect China to invade Taiwan, possibly in my lifetime; China is already building enormous landing barges/jetties.

Putin is successfully playing Trump, and it is in China's interest not to prevent that.

As for tariffs, early warning of climbdowns won't be seen in the stock market. Climbdowns will be forced by the US Government Bond market. History lesson; the UK PM, Liz Truss instigated similarly stupid libertarian economic policies, which detonated the UK Government Bond market and forced her out of the window.

The other big "known unknown" is the enormous shadow banking sector, e.g. hedge funds and private equity. Wait until they detonate, and there will be a repeat of 2008/1930.

Hence overall the tariffs aren't the biggest problem, but they are the visible indicator of serious problems. Tariffs can be instantly reversed, once it is defined/stated that the objective has been achieved.

[Marco]

All Democrats will likely do is put a nicer face on tariffs and going a little slower, while still being protectionist and using huge strategic tariffs.

Biden kept the WTO in zombie state too.

[PlainName]

All Democrats will likely do is ...

That's very definitely strayed into politics and will get this thread locked. Whatever any party may do in  future is not relevant to the thread - it is what the current government is doing and how that affects us now that's under discussion.

[Zero999]

75% of US scientists who answered Nature poll consider leaving

The massive changes in US research brought about by the new administration of President Donald Trump are causing many scientists in the country to rethink their lives and careers. More than 1,200 scientists who responded to a Nature poll — three-quarters of the total respondents — are considering leaving the United States following the disruptions prompted by Trump. Europe and Canada were among the top choices for relocation.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00938-y

Presumably, the tariffs are a factor in that result.

What do they mean by scientists? "More than 1,600 readers answered our poll". It just says readers. How many of them were real scientists? How many of them are involved with proper, science i.e. developing potential cures for cancer*, new vaccines, or just junk?

What about academic freedom? There wasn't much of that under the previous administration either.

There's a lot of junk in medicine, especially when it comes to cancer. Diet is another area full of rubbish.

How many of them will actually leave? People say they'll do all sorts of things, yet have no intention of doing them.

It just seems like people complaining because they're losing money. If it's worth funding, then charities and commercial organisations will step in.

What does it have to do with tariffs? No doubt there are a small number of people who will leave because they don't want tariffs, but it's a tiny amount.

[tggzzz]

75% of US scientists who answered Nature poll consider leaving

The massive changes in US research brought about by the new administration of President Donald Trump are causing many scientists in the country to rethink their lives and careers. More than 1,200 scientists who responded to a Nature poll — three-quarters of the total respondents — are considering leaving the United States following the disruptions prompted by Trump. Europe and Canada were among the top choices for relocation.

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00938-y

Presumably, the tariffs are a factor in that result.

What do they mean by scientists? "More than 1,600 readers answered our poll". It just says readers. How many of them were real scientists? How many of them are involved with proper, science i.e. developing potential cures for cancer*, new vaccines, or just junk?

Given that the source is "Nature", probably a high proportion are scientists.

That's an unjustifiably narrow definition of "real"; be careful of straying into "there's no such thing as a true Scotsman" territory.

How many of them will actually leave? People say they'll do all sorts of things, yet have no intention of doing them.

A sensible question, that had occurred to me.

If you have just been sacked and your field is politically out of favour and defunded, there is a very strong incentive. Random erroneous arrests and deportations add other incentives. For those early in their career, there would be few ties preventing leaving.

Despite having worked for US companies for the best part of 20 years, I would not move to the US, and would not consider joining a US company at the moment. Fortunately those considerations are no longer relevant to me.

It just seems like people complaining because they're losing money. If it's worth funding, then charities and commercial organisations will step in.

What does it have to do with tariffs? No doubt there are a small number of people who will leave because they don't want tariffs, but it's a tiny amount.

Nonsense and not much, respectively.

The latter means it should not be part of this thread.

[themadhippy]

Even if they leave the usa dont they still have to pay tax to uncle sam?

[zapta]

I have many friends in America and other countries facing serious financial disruption as a result. Because you're here demanding other nations harm themselves to benefit you.

1. Every change causes disruption with winner and losers, including rebalancing international trade.

2. Nothing is demanded from your country. If you want to trade with the US then do, and if you don't, then don't.

Nobody owe you a thing, even the US.