Tariffs

[tggzzz]

My reaction to “zero-sum” games is that they are not moral.
Co-operation between parties should lead to better outcomes (higher production, better incomes, etc.) than isolated individual efforts.

100%
If we go back 200 yrs the Opium wars started due to unbalanced trade however China is now quite westernised and their middle classes comfortable. Trade with the west did this, nothing else !

My understanding is that it wasn't quite that simple.

The UK was prepared to pay for tea in many ways, but the Chinese would only accept silver bullion. Not sure why.

The UK had to find another payment mechanism, and <cough>found</cough> there was a demand for opium.

[PlainName]

fyi: RISC-V and tariffs:

To save everyone else wasting 16 minutes, maybe you could offer a precis?

[tggzzz]

fyi: RISC-V and tariffs:

To save everyone else wasting 16 minutes, maybe you could offer a precis?

Just so

Or at least tell us what benefit we would receive for spending 16mins of our remaining life.

[TimFox]

My reaction to “zero-sum” games is that they are not moral.
Co-operation between parties should lead to better outcomes (higher production, better incomes, etc.) than isolated individual efforts.

100%
If we go back 200 yrs the Opium wars started due to unbalanced trade however China is now quite westernised and their middle classes comfortable. Trade with the west did this, nothing else !

My understanding is that it wasn't quite that simple.

The UK was prepared to pay for tea in many ways, but the Chinese would only accept silver bullion. Not sure why.

The UK had to find another payment mechanism, and <cough>found</cough> there was a demand for opium.

Historically, different countries used either gold or silver standard for their currency.
This resulted in arbitrage opportunities.
J K Galbraith’s book on money mentions other historical standards.
In colonial Virginia, tobacco was used, with associated problems with quality standards.
In immediate postwar Germany, this re-appeared.  Commercial cigarettes standardized tobacco quality, and packs (20) and cartons (200) were convenient denominations.

[Analog Kid]

Yeah, sometimes people fail to notice that for every decision there are 4 outcomes, not 2.
There's
 Good decision leading to good outcome
 Good decision leading to bad outcome
 Bad decision leading to good outcome
 Bad decision leading to bad outcome

Not really. You've laid out four pathways to two outcomes (good & bad).

[Analog Kid]

In immediate postwar Germany, this re-appeared.  Commercial cigarettes standardized tobacco quality, and packs (20) and cartons (200) were convenient denominations.

Sounds like prison currency.

[MK14]

fyi: RISC-V and tariffs:

At around the last 2 and a half minutes or so, of the video.  Seems to be discussing tariffs.  Direct link to the apparent start of it, here:

https://youtu.be/9s8hPmCZ0mk?t=836

[tggzzz]

fyi: RISC-V and tariffs:

At around the last 2 and a half minutes or so, of the video.  Seems to be discussing tariffs.  Direct link to the apparent start of it, here:

https://youtu.be/9s8hPmCZ0mk?t=836

Well, that saves 14 mins.

I guess it is talking head stuff, therefore  probably around 100 words unless they talk like the excellent CGPGray.

I could speed read that in about 10s.

[MK14]

Well, that saves 14 mins.

I guess it is talking head stuff, therefore  probably around 100 words unless they talk like the excellent CGPGray.

I could speed read that in about 10s.

Or as you would say "Just So".
Set the stopwatch (or countdown timer) to ten seconds, and start it, Now...
Here it is (auto-generated by YouTube):

The Global Context
13:58
for many years I've argued that the
14:01
development of risk 5 beyond embedded
14:03
computing cannot be analyzed solely on a
14:06
technical basis as it has to take
14:08
account of the broader geopolitical
14:10
context
14:12
and on the 2nd of April 2025 this
14:15
context changed dramatically when the
14:18
United States announced tariffs on many
14:21
nations in my view this tariff
14:23
announcement will have a very
14:25
significant impact on investment in risk
14:28
5 as it eroded the foundations of free
14:31
trade on which the modern computing
14:33
industry has been built
14:35
indeed we should remember that the
14:37
modern computing industry has only ever
14:39
operated in the age of mass
14:42
globalization but trust in this decades
14:45
old experiment has now been shattered so
14:49
many nations are now likely to take
14:51
measures to try and protect the future
14:53
supply of microprocessors and other
14:55
critical products in turn this is likely
14:59
to drive investment in risk 5 outside of
15:02
the United States indeed even before
15:05
Liberation Day it was reported that
15:08
China will soon publish a policy to
15:10
boost its use of risk 5 this is being
15:13
drafted by eight government bodies and
15:16
is intended to reduce China's reliance
15:19
on x86 and
15:22
ARM given this geopolitical context Bris
15:25
5 may not advance significantly beyond
15:27
embedded computing in the United States
15:31
but in other countries next generation
15:34
risk 5 microprocessors could start to
15:36
replace ARM and x86 in some servers
15:39
phones tablets laptops and desktop PCs
15:43
within the next few years and so by 2030
15:47
the ISA you use may in part depend on
15:50
the country in which you
15:53
live for more information on this topic
15:55
you may want to watch the recent
15:57
explaining computers episode Why Risk 5
16:00
matters
16:02
but now that's it for another video if
16:05
you've enjoyed what you've seen here
16:07
please press that like button if you
16:09
haven't subscribed please subscribe and
16:12
I hope to talk to you again very soon
16:18
[Music]

[tggzzz]

Well, that saves 14 mins.

I guess it is talking head stuff, therefore  probably around 100 words unless they talk like the excellent CGPGray.

I could speed read that in about 10s.

Or as you would say "Just So".
Set the stopwatch (or countdown timer) to ten seconds, and start it, Now...
Here it is (auto-generated by YouTube):

The Global Context
13:58
for many years I've argued that the
14:01
development of risk 5 beyond embedded
14:03...
press that like button if you
16:09
haven't subscribed please subscribe and
16:12
I hope to talk to you again very soon
16:18
[Music]

OK, so wc indicates about 500 words, which is more than I anticipated.

It took about 30s to work out that all it says is that China sees RiscV as being a way to avoid the being dependent on x86 and ARM (no news there!), and that tariffs make that  more bleeding obvious.

Summary: yet another yoootoob video with no information content. "Quelle surprise", as my French teacher would have said.
Rule of thumb: if someone can't be bothered to indicate why they post a yootoob vid, ignore it.

[MK14]

OK, so wc indicates about 500 words, which is more than I anticipated.

It took about 30s to work out that all it says is that China sees RiscV as being a way to avoid the being dependent on x86 and ARM (no news there!), and that tariffs make that  more bleeding obvious.

Summary: yet another yoootoob video with no information content. "Quelle surprise", as my French teacher would have said.
Rule of thumb: if someone can't be bothered to indicate why they post a yootoob vid, ignore it.

Not really.  As I understood it (from reading it, although I have watched the entire video, at least once, more so, sound only mostly, for that last few minutes section).

His (that YouTube channels host) worry (with both a RISC-V future and tariff hats on), is that as RISC-V (as he sees it), potentially grows and becomes more wide-spread.  Because of China, (essentially) promoting it for various reasons (possibly partly anti-western X86/Arm motivations).

We may see a number of devices, such as tablets, mobile phones, small computers, and so fourth.  At (I suspect), very cheap and affordable prices (outside of the US).

Hence RISC-V (especially bigger 64 bit versions), may grow a lot (beyond lower and middle ground, embedded RISC-V microcontroller use).  Especially outside of the US, as they won't (in general) have (what look like) punitive tariffs, added to them.

But the success and growth of 64 bit RISC-V CPUs, is probably significantly opinion based, as opinions can vary as to how widely, it will succeed, in the longer term.

[Njk]

MPH

You are aware the usa aint the only place to use MPH?

The proposal is not for everyone. For instance, in GB, their archaic system is a part of national identity. They'll never give it up for the metric system (simply because it's of French). BTW in a large intl projects, where no morons are welcomed, the British engineers are using the metric system with no problems. But domestically, the poor households will make a revolt because of deprivation from their customary pint of beer. It does not make sense to infuriate the public without a strong reason.

And it's not only about the Brits. Naturally, people hate changes. Back in seventies, the authorities in the USSR had decided to switch to the Pascal pressure unit in the frame of measurement system harmonization effort. Soon after, in every weather broadcast, the atmospheric pressure reading was reported in hectopascal unit. I don't know by whom the activity was championed, but finally they were overpowered, the exemption for public broadcasts was introduced and the weather reports were reverted back to the mercury unit.

But in the US the folks are more pragmatic and historically, less afraid of changes. Some changes were made just out of the desire to be looking less of British, like the driving side, the light switch handle position (down means on, up means off), etc. They bought a huge pool of lands from France, and it must be the metric system was offered as a free bonus, which was rejected because it seemed too radical (in Europe, the problem was solved by Napoleon). Now there is another individual who's apparently enjoy ruling the others by telling them what to do. The more disruptions the better. Thinking pragmatically, the problem is how to channel the energy in the right direction instead of wasting it. It's actually a valuable resource because only a quick improvement change can be implemented by convention. The Mark Twain's joke is well known. Once he went in a disagreement with the town's authorities and decided to find a way to punish them. He'd organized a voting campaign and offered a perk to everyone who will vote for his agenda. Then he announced in the newspaper that the town overwhelmingly voted for flat Earth. But sometimes a necessary change may be unpopular and it can be implemented only in the authoritarian way (that's known to everyone who have a children). This is where a motivation, courage and consistency are all required. Want to get rid of outdated and inconvenient measurement units? Tariff everything that uses that units (e.g. a bicycles). In that way, less people will be exposed so the transition period will be no longer than human life.

[Psi]

Yeah, sometimes people fail to notice that for every decision there are 4 outcomes, not 2.
There's
 Good decision leading to good outcome
 Good decision leading to bad outcome
 Bad decision leading to good outcome
 Bad decision leading to bad outcome

Not really. You've laid out four pathways to two outcomes (good & bad).

My point was simply to not always assume that
good decision = good outcome   and   bad decision = bad outcome.

(I probably shouldn't have used the word 'outcomes' in my OP)

[tautech]

But in the US the folks are more pragmatic and historically, less afraid of changes. ............

Take away their antiquated US Gallon and see what you get.... 

[tggzzz]

OK, so wc indicates about 500 words, which is more than I anticipated.

It took about 30s to work out that all it says is that China sees RiscV as being a way to avoid the being dependent on x86 and ARM (no news there!), and that tariffs make that  more bleeding obvious.

Summary: yet another yoootoob video with no information content. "Quelle surprise", as my French teacher would have said.
Rule of thumb: if someone can't be bothered to indicate why they post a yootoob vid, ignore it.

Not really.  As I understood it (from reading it, although I have watched the entire video, at least once, more so, sound only mostly, for that last few minutes section).

His (that YouTube channels host) worry (with both a RISC-V future and tariff hats on), is that as RISC-V (as he sees it), potentially grows and becomes more wide-spread.  Because of China, (essentially) promoting it for various reasons (possibly partly anti-western X86/Arm motivations).

We may see a number of devices, such as tablets, mobile phones, small computers, and so fourth.  At (I suspect), very cheap and affordable prices (outside of the US).

Hence RISC-V (especially bigger 64 bit versions), may grow a lot (beyond lower and middle ground, embedded RISC-V microcontroller use).  Especially outside of the US, as they won't (in general) have (what look like) punitive tariffs, added to them.

But the success and growth of 64 bit RISC-V CPUs, is probably significantly opinion based, as opinions can vary as to how widely, it will succeed, in the longer term.

All that is bog-standard hopes/fears about RiscV that have been expressed for years! Completely boring and nothing whatever to do with the nominal subject of the thread.

[vk6zgo]

It targets countries with imbalanced trade, and I expect them to understand and to cooperate in balancing the trade.

Wrong

Trump’s tariffs ALSO targets countries with pre-existing balanced trade.

The only reason why you didn’t know that is because you refuse to listen.

Yes, countries like Australia, got the minimal global tariff of 10%.

Nobody owe you a thing.

The USA, far from a trade deficit with Australia, has a trade surplus, but we still got hit with 10%.
Yes, we don't owe the USA a thing.

A while back, when China got snotty with Australia, they stopped taking many of our products, one of which was Barley.
They still needed it, so bought it from none other than the USA.

[TimFox]

But in the US the folks are more pragmatic and historically, less afraid of changes. ............

Take away their antiquated US Gallon and see what you get.... 

At least we spell “liter” the way it is pronounced in English.

[tautech]

But in the US the folks are more pragmatic and historically, less afraid of changes. ............

Take away their antiquated US Gallon and see what you get.... 

At least we spell “liter” the way it is pronounced in English.

You might but it's wrong. 

Whattabout Mitre cuts or the Centre of something ?

[tggzzz]

For instance, in GB, their archaic system is a part of national identity. They'll never give it up for the metric system (simply because it's of French). BTW in a large intl projects, where no morons are welcomed, the British engineers are using the metric system with no problems. But domestically, the poor households will make a revolt because of deprivation from their customary pint of beer. It does not make sense to infuriate the public without a strong reason.

Thus spake someone with little, if any, experience of living outside Russia (presuming you aren't operating under a "false flag").

In some cases we have "soft metric" and "hard metric", e.g. 6"/154mm ceramic tiles vs 150mm tiles. Bloody annoying.

The everyday Imperial units are usually aligned with sizes convenient for everyday purposes. Even the Germans have a "pfund", i.e. 500g which is close to the Imperial pound 454g.

[TimFox]

But in the US the folks are more pragmatic and historically, less afraid of changes. ............

Take away their antiquated US Gallon and see what you get.... 

At least we spell “liter” the way it is pronounced in English.

You might but it's wrong. 

Whattabout Mitre cuts or the Centre of something ?

American spelling uses “miter”, “center”, etc.  I dislike “theatre”, but it persists in snobbish usage.

[tautech]

But in the US the folks are more pragmatic and historically, less afraid of changes. ............

Take away their antiquated US Gallon and see what you get.... 

At least we spell “liter” the way it is pronounced in English.

You might but it's wrong. 

Whattabout Mitre cuts or the Centre of something ?

American spelling uses “miter”, “center”, etc.  I dislike “theatre”, but it persists in snobbish usage.

Don't we know it !
Bloody spellcheckers ..... 

[MK14]

I'm NOT sure what to write here, to introduce the following video?

But can say, it is relatively low on the politics, so don't panic.
It seems to give a balanced view (but not 100% perfect), about the current US administration.
It seems to include AI and its effects/future and uses.

There is mention of the tariffs, and how economists, DON'T support them, and think they are a bad idea.

I think the economist featured in the following video, is suppose to be a specific technological Silicon Valley one.

[Analog Kid]

At least we spell “liter” the way it is pronounced in English.

You might but it's wrong. 

Whattabout Mitre cuts or the Centre of something ?

"Miter" and "center" here.
As well as "theater", not thea-tree.
The correct way.

(I can go all day if you can.)

[MK14]

"Miter" and "center" here.
As well as "theater", not thea-tree.
The correct way.

(I can go all day if you can.)

You're an imposter.

Where is the real Analogue Kid? (Joke ).

[tautech]

At least we spell “liter” the way it is pronounced in English.

You might but it's wrong. 

Whattabout Mitre cuts or the Centre of something ?

"Miter" and "center" here.
As well as "theater", not thea-tree.
The correct way.

(I can go all day if you can.)

Yep, me too.
Thanks for the chuckle.

Then there's US pronunciation......
What's this silent L in solder ? 

Where else in the world is this replicated ?