Tariffs

[tggzzz]

Lavrov said it best, let me quote him...

Lavrov is one of the most unreliable sources imaginable. Show him daylight and he'll insist it is actually night if that suits Putin's purposes.

Here's the conclusion I reached earlier in this thread...
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/chat/tariffs/msg5889370/#msg5889370

[u666sa]

Was the goal to harm US allies?
This has certainly harmed my retirement savings.

In the 80's there was no China, there was Japan. Japan was the China of 1980's. I still have warm memories of Japanese electronics of those years, namely VCR's and TV's. Back then United States declared trade war, on smaller scale, with Japan. Same thing that is happening right now, only against Japan. Have a look at past to understand the present.

This is the address of Lee Kuan Yew to U.S. congress during the Reagan administration. Lee Kuan Yew founder of modern day Singapore.

[Marco]

US still had lots of industry at the time it now doesn't, Japan was a military ally and China is not ... it rhymes, but it does not repeat.

[themadhippy]

In the 80's there was no China,

you sure about that as they claim to have been around for a few thousand years,and it certainly weren't japanese takeaways we'd have as a special  treat in the 70's

[Analog Kid]

In the 80's there was no China,

you sure about that as they claim to have been around for a few thousand years,and it certainly weren't japanese takeaways we'd have as a special  treat in the 70's

There was no China as an economic powerhouse is what they were getting at.

You have to remember just how meteoric China's rise has been: as late as the 1960s, which is really not all that long ago, it was still a largely agrarian society, with a large part of the population that could be rightly called "peasants".

Nowadays that's just a very stupid and ignorant slur on the Chinese people, as J.D. Vance recently showed us.

I see China more than anything as the modern economic success story.

[tggzzz]

In the 80's there was no China,

you sure about that as they claim to have been around for a few thousand years,and it certainly weren't japanese takeaways we'd have as a special  treat in the 70's

I've recently pointed to u666sa's other, er, um, alternative views of history.

His statements should be viewed in that context.

[nctnico]

In the 80's there was no China,

you sure about that as they claim to have been around for a few thousand years,and it certainly weren't japanese takeaways we'd have as a special  treat in the 70's

There was no China as an economic powerhouse is what they were getting at.

You have to remember just how meteoric China's rise has been: as late as the 1960s, which is really not all that long ago, it was still a largely agrarian society, with a large part of the population that could be rightly called "peasants".

Nowadays that's just a very stupid and ignorant slur on the Chinese people, as J.D. Vance recently showed us.

I see China more than anything as the modern economic success story.

I'm not sure you can call it a success story. The cost expressed in human health & lives and destruction of China's environment is huge (understatement). That is going to backfire at the Chinese big time.

[nctnico]

does anyone know how or if these tariffs affected or will affect the UK street lamp industry (lower cost brands)?

Treez (or whatever his forum name 'du jour' is) will know that for sure!

[u666sa]

The cost expressed in human health & lives and destruction of China's environment is huge (understatement). That is going to backfire at the Chinese big time.

There is this youtube channel, actually there are several on similar subject, but this one that comes to mind is China Insider or something similar. It's anti-Chinese propaganda channel. Each episode is about some kind of catastrophe in China. Fires, buildings falling over, godzilla, etc..

It's to the point of ridiculous.

In fact, you'd have to be totally brainwashed to believe into any of it.

Well, your post here reminded me of that youtube channel. 

[u666sa]

I don't view Chinese nor their economy as enemy. I've seen Chinese tourists. They get fascinated by history, nature, and dive neck deep into culture. China is one of the places I'd love to visit in my lifetime. I'm open to them.

Kind of sad to see fellows from Europe, netherlands and britain, who never been to China, bad mouth and disrespect the country.

[tggzzz]

In the 80's there was no China,

you sure about that as they claim to have been around for a few thousand years,and it certainly weren't japanese takeaways we'd have as a special  treat in the 70's

There was no China as an economic powerhouse is what they were getting at.

You have to remember just how meteoric China's rise has been: as late as the 1960s, which is really not all that long ago, it was still a largely agrarian society, with a large part of the population that could be rightly called "peasants".

Nowadays that's just a very stupid and ignorant slur on the Chinese people, as J.D. Vance recently showed us.

I see China more than anything as the modern economic success story.

I'm not sure you can call it a success story. The cost expressed in human health & lives and destruction of China's environment is huge (understatement). That is going to backfire at the Chinese big time.

Success implies comparing X₀ with X₁, not comparing X with Y.

For the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in the Han part of China at least (i.e. many people) there has been a significant improvement since Mao came to power. I still wouldn't want to live there.

[Analog Kid]

In the 80's there was no China,

you sure about that as they claim to have been around for a few thousand years,and it certainly weren't japanese takeaways we'd have as a special  treat in the 70's

There was no China as an economic powerhouse is what they were getting at.

You have to remember just how meteoric China's rise has been: as late as the 1960s, which is really not all that long ago, it was still a largely agrarian society, with a large part of the population that could be rightly called "peasants".

Nowadays that's just a very stupid and ignorant slur on the Chinese people, as J.D. Vance recently showed us.

I see China more than anything as the modern economic success story.

I'm not sure you can call it a success story. The cost expressed in human health & lives and destruction of China's environment is huge (understatement). That is going to backfire at the Chinese big time.

Looked at in economic terms, it is an unqualified, unambiguous, incontrovertible success story.

Of course, every economy has what are euphemistically called "externalities", like destruction of the environment.

[nctnico]

In the 80's there was no China,

you sure about that as they claim to have been around for a few thousand years,and it certainly weren't japanese takeaways we'd have as a special  treat in the 70's

There was no China as an economic powerhouse is what they were getting at.

You have to remember just how meteoric China's rise has been: as late as the 1960s, which is really not all that long ago, it was still a largely agrarian society, with a large part of the population that could be rightly called "peasants".

Nowadays that's just a very stupid and ignorant slur on the Chinese people, as J.D. Vance recently showed us.

I see China more than anything as the modern economic success story.

I'm not sure you can call it a success story. The cost expressed in human health & lives and destruction of China's environment is huge (understatement). That is going to backfire at the Chinese big time.

Success implies comparing X₀ with X₁, not comparing X with Y.

Yeah, like the surgery was a success but the patient has died  Economic success means nothing if the end result is a country where people can't live in.

[Analog Kid]

Yeah, like the surgery was a success but the patient has died  Economic success means nothing if the end result is a country where people can't live in.

Your concern is noted but is totally misplaced.
China is far, far away from that condition. Despite living under an authoritarian regime, people there are not in any kind of revolt against their society, which they would be if things were as bad as you're trying to convince us they are.

[tggzzz]

In the 80's there was no China,

you sure about that as they claim to have been around for a few thousand years,and it certainly weren't japanese takeaways we'd have as a special  treat in the 70's

There was no China as an economic powerhouse is what they were getting at.

You have to remember just how meteoric China's rise has been: as late as the 1960s, which is really not all that long ago, it was still a largely agrarian society, with a large part of the population that could be rightly called "peasants".

Nowadays that's just a very stupid and ignorant slur on the Chinese people, as J.D. Vance recently showed us.

I see China more than anything as the modern economic success story.

I'm not sure you can call it a success story. The cost expressed in human health & lives and destruction of China's environment is huge (understatement). That is going to backfire at the Chinese big time.

Success implies comparing X₀ with X₁, not comparing X with Y.

Yeah, like the surgery was a success but the patient has died  Economic success means nothing if the end result is a country where people can't live in.

As I wrote and you snipped to make a different point, "For the lower levels of Maslow's hierarchy of needs in the Han part of China at least (i.e. many people) there has been a significant improvement since Mao came to power. I still wouldn't want to live there."

There are far more people with full bellies in China now, and that is a significant success.
As I wrote, and you snipped.to make a point "

[tggzzz]

Yeah, like the surgery was a success but the patient has died  Economic success means nothing if the end result is a country where people can't live in.

Your concern is noted but is totally misplaced.
China is far, far away from that condition. Despite living under an authoritarian regime, people there are not in any kind of revolt against their society, which they would be if things were as bad as you're trying to convince us they are.

I suggest you read some (of the far too many) reports about what the Han Chinese are doing to their minorities in Xinjiang and Tibet.

Start with https://www.state.gov/office-to-monitor-and-combat-trafficking-in-persons/releases/2025/01/uyghur-forced-labor-prevention-act-uflpa-fact-sheet

Very very ugly.

[PlainName]

Yeah, like the surgery was a success but the patient has died  Economic success means nothing if the end result is a country where people can't live in.

Your concern is noted but is totally misplaced.
China is far, far away from that condition. Despite living under an authoritarian regime, people there are not in any kind of revolt against their society, which they would be if things were as bad as you're trying to convince us they are.

What would it take for people to revolt? There are plenty of examples where they suffered serious shit and not revolted. Syria is a good one, with Al-Assad dropping chemical weapons on his own citizens and just generally being a massive evil git towards them. Took someone else to have a got and kick him out.

How about Hong Kong? Some demonstrations there, but now the Chinese Method has been implemented there aren't any demonstrators to demonstrate any more.

How about Mao and the (literal) millions that starved without overthrowing him?

I think it's probably reasonable to suggest that most revolts would occur where there is some semblance of free will, at least just prior to whatever hassle kicks it off. Without that free will, anyone likely to cause a fuss will have been noted and dealt with before they do so (or really soon after), and the ones left just see their lives as the way things are and always have been.

[Analog Kid]

Yeah, like the surgery was a success but the patient has died  Economic success means nothing if the end result is a country where people can't live in.

Your concern is noted but is totally misplaced.
China is far, far away from that condition. Despite living under an authoritarian regime, people there are not in any kind of revolt against their society, which they would be if things were as bad as you're trying to convince us they are.

I suggest you read some (of the far too many) reports about what the Han Chinese are doing to their minorities in Xinjiang and Tibet.

Start with https://www.state.gov/office-to-monitor-and-combat-trafficking-in-persons/releases/2025/01/uyghur-forced-labor-prevention-act-uflpa-fact-sheet

Very very ugly.

Yes, I know all about that. I think most people do by now.
I still stand by my statements. Overall, most Chinese (except, of course, the oppressed minorities) are pretty satisfied with life there.

One could cast similar kinds of aspersion even on the United States of Amnesia, which still has major problems with racism as demonstrated by continued excessive use of force cases (including outright murder) against black and brown people, despite our overwhelming (well, formerly overwhelming) economic successes.

I'd say that's pretty damn ugly, wouldn't you?

[zapta]

Yes, I know all about that. I think most people do by now.
I still stand by my statements. Overall, most Chinese (except, of course, the oppressed minorities) are pretty satisfied with life there.

One could cast similar kinds of aspersion even on the United States of Amnesia, which still has major problems with racism as demonstrated by continued excessive use of force cases (including outright murder) against black and brown people, despite our overwhelming (well, formerly overwhelming) economic successes.

I'd say that's pretty damn ugly, wouldn't you?

What this has to do with tariffs?

[shabaz]

Yes, I know all about that. I think most people do by now.
I still stand by my statements. Overall, most Chinese (except, of course, the oppressed minorities) are pretty satisfied with life there.

One could cast similar kinds of aspersion even on the United States of Amnesia, which still has major problems with racism as demonstrated by continued excessive use of force cases (including outright murder) against black and brown people, despite our overwhelming (well, formerly overwhelming) economic successes.

I'd say that's pretty damn ugly, wouldn't you?

What this has to do with tariffs?

I seem to remember zapta pasting a photograph of muslims kneeling to pray in a discussion on this site recently, maybe relevant if one doesn't want those types of people in their country, but it had absolutely zero to do with engineering. Given you rammed that photo into that discussion because it suited whatever agenda you may have, you're the last person with a valid objection here.

[u666sa]

Start with https://www.state.gov/office-to-monitor-and-combat-trafficking-in-persons/releases/2025/01/uyghur-forced-labor-prevention-act-uflpa-fact-sheet

I absolutely __LOVE__ this!! What Chinese are doing and there is link to resource by United States government!!

Good stuff. 


You'd have to be woke and drink budlight to go to that site and with straight face read the __TRUTH__ about China. 


Personally, I wouldn't be reading anything by anyone putting dirt on someone. I prefer to go see for myself. Furthermore, I wouldn't be trusting anyone who is relying on reading something instead of experiencing something for themselves.

Why China sucks? Because state.gov said so! Perfect logic!

What would it take for people to revolt?

Another good one!! Uhm, I don't know, I guess there would have to be setup some democracy colleges which would fund opposition and then opposition would have to get out on the street and protest, and then you could hire snipers and shoot folks on both sides, causing chaos and revolution you have it!!! Viola, you got a coup de tat.

Again, people from across the other side of the world wishing people on the other side of the world revolt, because they are suffering!

What are bunch of misandrists you are!! Bravo! 

The way you care about people you never met nor know, with true passion. Because you wish them well! 

One could cast similar kinds of aspersion even on the United States of Amnesia, which still has major problems with racism as demonstrated by continued excessive use of force cases (including outright murder) against black and brown people, despite our overwhelming (well, formerly overwhelming) economic successes.

If anything, people are fed up with immigrants and certain minorities. Trump at the helm is indication of it. People mostly fed up with "woke" culture that funds homeless and druggies and forces same-sex stuff to children at schools. Some people even left the country because of this. When you see a police shooting video on youtube, main channel is Police Activity I believe, check out the comments.

People expressing their true views in comments section tells a lot about the situation.

Did you know that I had to drive 4.5 hours across the state to visit a DMV? That's right, local DMV's have long lines, you come 6:30 PM the previous evening and already there are 20 people in line, waiting all night. You come 3 AM, be prepared to wait around the block, because the line is so long. This is because of DEI, diversity, equality, inclusion. I drove 4.5 hours across the state where there is no this "woke" thing, walked into DMV and was out within an hour.

At my local windixie cashier don't speak English. Perfect Spanish.

Something tells me Americans are fed up with certain things. Because I'm here only 2 months and it already bugs me.

[PlainName]

I prefer to go see for myself.

I think you'd see less than you'd pick up via the media. Even in my own small-ish town I have no idea what some parts are like. I am sometimes surprised by other towns, and I've been to other countries and couldn't honestly tell you how the people there really think or behave. Or even what their circumstances are. There is just no way you can get an overall picture of someone by toddling around on holiday, and even less so if you're stuck in a job instead of visiting places.

Did you mean to say you "do your own research"?

[Zero999]

Still has major problems with racism as demonstrated by continued excessive use of force cases (including outright murder) against black and brown people, despite our overwhelming (well, formerly overwhelming) economic successes.

That's not even true. It's the narrative pushed by the race baiting media, but it's not so straightforward.

The reality is, certain demographics are more likely to commit violent crime, hence why they're more likely to be subject to force, or killed by the police. For example, most black people are killed by other black people. Now look at the number of black homicides vs the number of white homicides. Note that the ratio is pretty similar to the amount of times black people are more likely to be killed by the police (this does vary, depending on the source, but note it's within the same ballpark) compared to white.

This is why simply saying black people are X times more likely to be hurt by the police is misleading. It's like saying the police are much more likely to kill men, than women, is due to sexism.

[MT]

Americans soon have to walk barefoot!

[Analog Kid]

Did you know that I had to drive 4.5 hours across the state to visit a DMV? That's right, local DMV's have long lines, you come 6:30 PM the previous evening and already there are 20 people in line, waiting all night. You come 3 AM, be prepared to wait around the block, because the line is so long. This is because of DEI, diversity, equality, inclusion. I drove 4.5 hours across the state where there is no this "woke" thing, walked into DMV and was out within an hour.

At the risk of turning this into a verboten political discussion (heavens to Betsy!), I have to challenge you on this.

I have no idea what state or what part of that state you're in, but I'm pretty sure I can confidently say that "DEI" is not the reason for those long lines at the DMV. (And believe me, I know about long waits at the DMV: spent many an hour at the Oakland, CA office.)

It may be due to budget cuts. It could be mismanagement of that particular office. It could be a lot of things, but I fail to see how "DEI" could cause those long lines. Unless you're somehow inferring that because of DEI, the staff there is incompetent.

In any case, if you have any evidence to show us to support this assertion, then please do so. Otherwise, color me skeptical.

(And no, while I am quite aware of lingering racism in the US and other maladies that need fixing, I'm not a big fan of DEI policies.)