Remember the UK is much further down this road than SwedenSo Sweden isn't in such a bad shape after all.
To vote for SD is the same as declaring that you are not a decent person (might even be objectively true ). But even without going with the SD, you wouldn't want other people to think that you are one of "nassarna" (i.e., the nazis) by voicing critical opinions on immigration. PC is a strong force.
Having worked closely with Police in Denmark for many years - I can say until about 2012 all Danish crime stats detailing religion or origin was not allowed.In the 1990s it was basically impossible to get official figures for how many immigrants there were in the country. There is one difference - which I think is very important - when comparing Denmark to Sweden. There is, and has been all along, a discourse about immigration and the pros and cons of it in Denmark. I think that has been instrumental in avoiding the kind of extremism that can be found in Sweden. It serves as a safety valve that makes it difficult for neo-nazi style groupings to gain traction simply because it is possible to debate the issue instead of just pretending that it doesn't exist. Not surprisingly the left regularly complains about this discourse and would prefer it could be stopped like in Sweden.
I agree with much of what you say and your motivations.
I don't see the EU being the cause of the problem.
I do see the EU being where the problem is manifested, because that's where the relevant power lies.
When the relevant power lies in the UK, exactly the same problems will manifest themselves in the UK.
Summary: I agree with your starting point, but your conclusions are misguided and won't solve the cause of your (and my) dissatisfaction.
We call them nazis because they are nazis. That's what the Danish don't understand about the Swedish radical right. 30 years ago SD was openly nazi sympatisers. Denmark is a bit naive in this regard.
The fact is, SD does not have more support in Sweden than DF in Denmark, or similar parties all over Europe. They have been growing all over Europe regardless of the immigration policies or how much immigration has been discussed.
I agree with much of what you say and your motivations.
I don't see the EU being the cause of the problem.
I do see the EU being where the problem is manifested, because that's where the relevant power lies.
When the relevant power lies in the UK, exactly the same problems will manifest themselves in the UK.
Summary: I agree with your starting point, but your conclusions are misguided and won't solve the cause of your (and my) dissatisfaction.We have created a superstate of countries that are not suited to sit together yet we have introduced a common currency while the countries belonging to this currency are wildly different.
Our referendum has been a clear example of that people did not vote for the issue they voted for the person and in many cases they voted for people who have now dropped everything and ran.
The fact is, SD does not have more support in Sweden than DF in Denmark, or similar parties all over Europe. They have been growing all over Europe regardless of the immigration policies or how much immigration has been discussed.SD and DF aren't really comparable(*). DF routinely rid themselves of true extremists and are in many ways more akin to the social democrats. They don't have the same roots as SD. But that is beside the point which is that the lack of discourse in Sweden makes it easier for fringe groupings with anti-democratic views to fester in the dark and grow ever more extreme; because there is no safety valve - no moderate outlet for discontent - all in the name of PC and sitting on high horses.
(*) Addendum: DF is in the ECR group in the European Parliament, like the Tories.
It took DF a long time to realize what SD is. DF used to be buddies with SD, they supported SD until a few years ago, giving them money and helped them with propaganda, etc. I still think maybe Denmark are a bit naive about DF as well since you have been spared the kind of extremism that Sweden have had to cope with since the war. SD also claims to "routinely rid themselves of true extremists", using much of the same rhetoric that DF have used, and they are now about the same size (i.e. they appeal to the same demographics). And as I said, the same thing is happening in rest of Europe, and the US/Canada, it's an international phenomena.
Well I'm no economist but it's pretty clear to me that we should not meddle with the current status when it comes to currencies.
Well I'm no economist but it's pretty clear to me that we should not meddle with the current status when it comes to currencies.
Why not? You are sufficient of an economist to say the euro is "wrong", and "meddling with" currencies is not new - and it continues.
What's so perfect about the current status? Why wouldn't it be better for Sunderland if they had their own currency? If you have have a reason to believe one currency is right/wrong, then you also have sufficient information to say why a Sunderland Pound is wrong/right.
For some alternatives, some of which are already operating, some of which are backed by sterling, consider
- http://bristolpound.org/ Slogan: "Our city. Our Pound"
- http://www.totnespound.org/
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewes_Pound previously active 1789-1895, now active again
- http://brixtonpound.org/
- http://www.exeterpound.org.uk/
- http://cardiffpound.co.uk/
- http://kingstonpound.org/
And then there's the movement to enable local high-street businesses to do their business abroad, just like the multinationals.
Are present-day Brits to blame for what Brits did in the past?
We should stop apologising for ourselves. I personally never went over to any country and stuck my flag it white should I feel guilt the something I did not do?
Well I'm no economist but it's pretty clear to me that we should not meddle with the current status when it comes to currencies.
Why not? You are sufficient of an economist to say the euro is "wrong", and "meddling with" currencies is not new - and it continues.
What's so perfect about the current status? Why wouldn't it be better for Sunderland if they had their own currency? If you have have a reason to believe one currency is right/wrong, then you also have sufficient information to say why a Sunderland Pound is wrong/right.
For some alternatives, some of which are already operating, some of which are backed by sterling, consider
- http://bristolpound.org/ Slogan: "Our city. Our Pound"
- http://www.totnespound.org/
- https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewes_Pound previously active 1789-1895, now active again
- http://brixtonpound.org/
- http://www.exeterpound.org.uk/
- http://cardiffpound.co.uk/
- http://kingstonpound.org/
And then there's the movement to enable local high-street businesses to do their business abroad, just like the multinationals.I'm not sure what you mean about high-street doing business abroad. I do know there is a movement of local shops trying to form a group so that they are powerful enough to either register themselves in a tax haven or demand better treatment from the tax authorities just like big business.
The Bristol Pound for example looks more like a membership scheme that allows discounts you essentially accrue your membership points by spending in the local community and getting back a type of money that can only be spent in the town so they have effectively devalued themselves by a small amount to try and encourage people to spend the money in the town rather than outside.
Yes I do rather object to immigrant ghettos where you have entire housing estates full of people from one culture keep to themselves and live their own way.
Yes I do rather object to immigrant ghettos where you have entire housing estates full of people from one culture keep to themselves and live their own way.
Well, when we emigrated to and ruled the British Empire, we lived in immigrant ghettos. And that wasn't due to poverty!
But I agree, ghettos are not a good thing.
So what is the value of this currency? How many pounds is a pound from Bristol or Sunderland or where ever worth? That is value go up and down?
Yes I do rather object to immigrant ghettos where you have entire housing estates full of people from one culture keep to themselves and live their own way.
Well, when we emigrated to and ruled the British Empire, we lived in immigrant ghettos. And that wasn't due to poverty!
But I agree, ghettos are not a good thing.
And as I said before I would hope we don't do things like that anymore.
Although I have to say when I lived in Italy all the English and other foreign people seem to live down the same road although this would generally be a country road with various houses on it that they had bought.
We call them nazis because they are nazis. That's what the Danish don't understand about the Swedish radical right. 30 years ago SD was openly nazi sympatisers. Denmark is a bit naive in this regard. Look at what happened in Norway. The extreme right is de facto a bigger threat than isis in Scandinavia, but it get less attention.
Yes I do rather object to immigrant ghettos where you have entire housing estates full of people from one culture keep to themselves and live their own way.
Well, when we emigrated to and ruled the British Empire, we lived in immigrant ghettos. And that wasn't due to poverty!
But I agree, ghettos are not a good thing.
And as I said before I would hope we don't do things like that anymore.
But, as you point out, we continue to do just that.QuoteAlthough I have to say when I lived in Italy all the English and other foreign people seem to live down the same road although this would generally be a country road with various houses on it that they had bought.
Mensch ist mensch. People are people. Human behaviour doesn't change. Chiantishire. The Costas. Etc, etc.
The extreme right is de facto a bigger threat than isis in Scandinavia
Look at what happened in Norway.
Yes I do rather object to immigrant ghettos where you have entire housing estates full of people from one culture keep to themselves and live their own way.
Well, when we emigrated to and ruled the British Empire, we lived in immigrant ghettos. And that wasn't due to poverty!
But I agree, ghettos are not a good thing.
And as I said before I would hope we don't do things like that anymore.
But, as you point out, we continue to do just that.QuoteAlthough I have to say when I lived in Italy all the English and other foreign people seem to live down the same road although this would generally be a country road with various houses on it that they had bought.
Mensch ist mensch. People are people. Human behaviour doesn't change. Chiantishire. The Costas. Etc, etc.
Well we certainly don't expect to drive on the left-hand side of the road do we? I am of course talking of a single experience of a single area and it should also be remembered that other countries are not as welcoming to immigrants as we are and I can say that because I was an immigrant in somebody else's country and for 14 years I suffered harassment and was bullied because I was not from the local area despite the fact I am partly Italian but then most people did not even realise where I was actually from and didn't know that I was related to one of the most important families in the area at 1 point people thought I was Albanese because they are so ignorant in southern Italy that all foreigners come from the country that at the moment is supplying most of the immigration they haven't even got to the point of being able to differentiate between cultures. So on balance I would actually say that it's no surprise people would want to live with other people that they felt comfortable with. What they should however do is endeavour to learn the language and interact with people which I'm afraid not all do but you can say the same for people who come to the UK they live in closed communities and don't bother to learn English and then we are the ones who have to fund foreign speaking police officers just so that we can sort their shit out and understand their interpretation of our laws.
Well like I said I'm no economist but to me if pound equals a pound it's not exactly a different currency it's more of a local movement to promote shopping and dealing with in the local area. The euro is something totally different. The euro unites different countries of different economic strengths and it did so overnight. The some reason the strength of a currency is linked to the strength of its government so how can you have a coherent single currency when the collective of nations that back it have a constantly shifting economic power between them? I'm not saying a unique currency is a bad thing it actually bloodily helpful but given that the strength of the currency is linked to the government that backs it the euro will only truly work and not be a problem when you do have a United States of Europe which we don't at the moment. If we all grew up and our politicians also grew up and we decided as a people not just as governments that we all wanted to live by the same laws and do things the same way then a common currency would make sense. As things stand it seems to either benefit certain people and disadvantaged others or just create a general shambles.