You guys have no idea the awesome that is about to drop.
That screenshot only shows a few of the new things coming, there's even more that isn't shown on that screen.
Unfortunately, I'm not allowed to say much. I do encourage everyone to join the Hack-chat happening tomorrow on hackaday.
http://hackaday.com/2017/01/11/friday-hack-chat-eagle-pcb-design-with-matt-berggren
Matt and I will be available to answer questions and discuss.
Let me know if there's anything else I can do for you.
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Autodesk
Product Support Specialist for EAGLE
The axe has finally dropped. The CAD companies need continuing profits or they will not bother continuing to support this kind of tool because they are greedy bastards and have always been. For professionals who are continuously doing designs the $500 a year price per seat is not in issue. Its just the cost of doing business. For others who just do a few things a year or small companies with long standing products this is a real shaft. We fit into the category and will continue loafing along on our previous purchased in full Lic. until we cant use it anymore. At that time if subscription is the only option available, apart from open source of course, we will most likely just jump up to one seat of Altium and it will just be "The company" pcb design workstation. Cadsoft was no prize, but this is just big business trying to fleece small business.
Two other major problems that can happen as a result of subscription model software forcing "upgrades" upon users are a loss of backward compatibility with older files and the introduction of a fatal bug that brings work to a halt. I've experienced both of these delightful scenarios and it is why, for example, I have waited until I am NOT in the middle of a project to install the latest version of EAGLE (well, that and the incredibly annoying fact that EAGLE always wants to install itself into an entirely new directory and NOT import/carryover any of your preferences or customizations).
Exactly. This is my personal problem to. As a small business owner, and student, PCB design is maybe 10% of what I do professionally. If I was a full time professional PCB Design engineer, I would not be using Eagle in the first place, I would be using a better supported tool, with less bugs, and quirks.
Hey Jorge,
How much is the discount, how long will it be available for and does it apply to the paid hobbyist license? The only mention of it I've seen has been to email someone and ask for it. When I re-evaluate my choice of PCB software I will give Eagle 8 a fair chance, but I'm not likely to get around to it for a while.
Thanks.
Jorge,
Can we still buy the old V7 license (Ultimate)?
Math check for professional PCB design work on a month to month basis.
Eagle service fee of $65/mo over 160 billable hours yields $0.41 USD/hour cost for software services.
Even at half the hours, the per hour cost is under a buck.
For the Jacks/Jills of all Trades, if one is not doing board design work for a month or months, the cost is zero as one can simply cancel the service until it is needed again. This is a major point missed. With software as a service, the cost of ramping up and down projects is far more manageable than shelling out thousands for permanent licenses that will only be utilized fully for a short duration.
I do not think AutoDesk will make it easy to stop/start subscriptions - and maybe even put limits on how often you change.
Exactly. This is my personal problem to. As a small business owner, and student, PCB design is maybe 10% of what I do professionally. If I was a full time professional PCB Design engineer, I would not be using Eagle in the first place, I would be using a better supported tool, with less bugs, and quirks.
Hi iampoor,
If you are a student you get the EAGLE premium for FREE. Just wanted to make sure you were aware of that. With the new release many of the most difficult interface quirks have been addressed, the rest will continue to be addressed as EAGLE improves.
Hope this helps,
Best Regards,
Jorge Garcia
Autodesk Support
@LabSpokane: I appreciate you being an apologist for Autodesk. It is easy to forget that EAGLE has a chance to grow up and become a professional level tool under the auspices of Autodesk. However, with the hard-line, non-negotiable nature of their subscription model, there will be growing pains and the EAGLE target market will change. Good for the new market, maybe bad for the old. Evolve or die, right?Eagle service fee of $65/mo over 160 billable hours yields $0.41 USD/hour cost for software services.I don't think anyone would dispute how cost-effective the subscription model can be for someone who engages in what you rightly point out to be "professional PCB design".QuoteFor the Jacks/Jills of all Trades, if one is not doing board design work for a month or months, the cost is zero as one can simply cancel the service until it is needed again. This is a major point missed. With software as a service, the cost of ramping up and down projects is far more manageable than shelling out thousands for permanent licenses that will only be utilized fully for a short duration.Reading the various threads here, on EAGLE Central, and on the official Autodesk forum, I think the two biggest discussion points are that, 1) many EAGLE users are hobby/small business/prosumer types who now feel alienated because they are losing the sense of ownership that comes with paying for tools that one gets to keep using forever (we were part of what felt like a small community that used a cool tool and we proudly wanted to support that), and 2) even if the subscription model is acceptable, many users don't want, or can't have, a required connection to the Internet.
In my decades in the computer business, I have seen the pendulum swing back and forth many times. Thin client, thick client, thin client. Cloud- and subscription-based services are merely the latest iteration of thin client. At some point, businesses will realize that they want to cut their operations (cloud and subscription) expenses and will switch those funds back into capital budgets. Some of us haven't been big enough to have large operations budgets or to take advantage of the accounting benefits of them, so we're still spending capital money to own our own assets...
It's the grand tradition of a workman owning their tools. As long as a carpenter has a hammer and saw they can find work. I propose finding your nearest plumber, carpenter, or welder and telling them about a new plan where they pay a monthly fee that would be enough to buy their tools outright in three years, but they have to keep paying and if they can't pay you come take the tools away.
I'm not apologizing as much as trying to explain why some of the wild assertions being made about this change are demonstrably false.
I hate recurring software fees as much as anybody, but $65/mo beats $1700 upfront.
I just don't understand why, as annoying as it is, people think a business is going to drop $30MM or whatever it was in exchange for no new revenue.
Moreover, verbally abusing the tech support at Autodesk is totally counter productive. This kind of behavior is clearly demonstrating that Eagle's existing base is a market that isn't worth serving. It would hardly surprise me to know that a VP's hand is already hovering over the abort button, ready to write down this entire mess as soon as possible. That would certainly kill development of Eagle off permanently as Eagle is likely more valuable in the balance sheet loss column than it is to re-market. Autodesk is surely Eagle's last rodeo.
Hey Jorge,
How much is the discount, how long will it be available for and does it apply to the paid hobbyist license?
Hi Beard,
I'm not allowed to say the amount on forums and as far as how long the only thing I can say is that it's limited time.
@timb, leasing is in fact common in the >50 engineers companies. You lease all the expensive tools, flukes, tektronix, keysight to fill your lab. In the meantime the lease company makes sure they are calibrated. And if they break down, they'll swap it and take care of it. Often the brands themselves offer such contract.
This also applies to active cloud software, like servers and email. But an EDA isn't that active. You could still use Protel 99 today, or ULTIboard from pre NI times, like 1992 vintage. (Yes, I know someone who still uses this, at work)
That's a strange policy. Not sure weter this has been answered already, but anyway, I got a promotional email with the details from Autodesk today, and I don't see what should prevent me from sharing the details:
And if I could only troubleshoot my designs with a FrobozzCo 6000SUX Magic Phosphor Oscilloscope, I wouldn't lease that, either.
Hello Eagle user,
If you haven’t heard the good news by now, Autodesk EAGLE is available through our new EAGLE Subscription. No more having to find funds for the next upgrade. Here’s how it works:
1. Pay. Just a simple yearly subscription to get started.
2. Save. Get every new update at no extra cost.
3. Make. Create anything with the newest PCB design technologies.
We’re all really excited about the future of EAGLE and hope you can be a part of it. For staying with us over the years, here’s 50% off your first year of an EAGLE Subscription.
At only $250 per year, a subscription works out at less than your daily cup of coffee and it’ll boost your productivity more than the caffeine will!
@timb, leasing is in fact common in the >50 engineers companies. You lease all the expensive tools, flukes, tektronix, keysight to fill your lab. In the meantime the lease company makes sure they are calibrated. And if they break down, they'll swap it and take care of it. Often the brands themselves offer such contract.
This also applies to active cloud software, like servers and email. But an EDA isn't that active. You could still use Protel 99 today, or ULTIboard from pre NI times, like 1992 vintage. (Yes, I know someone who still uses this, at work)
For servers and email, it makes a lot of sense for companies that don't have in-house IT to use service provider. In fact, this has been pretty much the standard way to do things for the last 20 years.
For test equipment, I see a lot of small companies (1-50 engineers) buy the base tools (your daily driver scopes, 5.5 digit DMMs, etc.) and then rent the expensive tools when a project comes up that needs them (10GHz scopes, high frequency current probes, SMUs). That seems to be a cost effective approach to the problem.
(It's been my experience that some larger companies lease everything like you said, though some buy what they need as they need it.)
I don't think anybody is against Autodesk making an honest buck. But I'm pretty sure a lot of people feel like they're now being (or will be) held hostage. IMHO, you're trying to turn an emotional issue into a logical one by discounting the emotion. I know, I know, engineers don't deal well with emotion.
I hate recurring software fees as much as anybody, but $65/mo beats $1700 upfront. I just don't understand why, as annoying as it is, people think a business is going to drop $30MM or whatever it was in exchange for no new revenue. Things just don't work that way.
To play Devil's Advocate, a lot of automotive repair and industrial companies *do* lease their tools. SnapOn uses this business model, to great success I might add.
In fact, a lot of mechanics in training that go to a Technical College for automotive repair are required to rent their own tool chest from SnapOn, which costs several hundred dollars a month, on top of tuition. Though, it's actually more of a "rent to own" or financing scenario; basically SnapOn says the tools cost X to buy outright, but we'll rent them to you for Y per month, once you've paid X+25% you can keep them, in the mean time, if you stop paying we get the tools back. (Typically these tool sets can cost between $5000-$10000 this way!)
The difference is that the mechanic eventually owns the tools and was just financing the purchase. The subscription model never leads to ownership or perpetual use of the tools. That's where the analogy breaks down and your argument with it. Also the mechanic can use another tool companies product to access an industry standard sized nut. That is another difference with software having proprietry file formats.
If a CAD file could be used with any CAD package this whole debate would have far less emotion attached to it and noone would feel trapped or vulnerable to future changes.
@timb, leasing is in fact common in the >50 engineers companies. You lease all the expensive tools, flukes, tektronix, keysight to fill your lab. In the meantime the lease company makes sure they are calibrated. And if they break down, they'll swap it and take care of it. Often the brands themselves offer such contract.