Is the DT-9561 UL listed? I was looking on the Amazon ad and in the manual they link and did not see where it was certified. The manual claims it meets UL... but there is no report number.
Looking at the higher priced meter, I don't see a report number. Their pictures are not clear enough to see a UL mark.
The 121GW was certified by ETL as well. After seeing that meter pass their certification while not being able to perform a simple autorange, I have low confidence in their abilities.
Whether 90DM600 and 90DM610 are the same I don't know. Opening them up can only provide the answer .
I think specs and functionality from the manual are the same I believe for what I've seen.
The 121GW was certified by ETL as well. After seeing that meter pass their certification while not being able to perform a simple autorange, I have low confidence in their abilities.
With the UL 61010 not being an open norm (you have to pay dearly for it, and obviously I'm to cheap for that ), I don't really know what's in there, so I don't know if it's a matter of abilities or a matter of that the content and demands set out in the norm have any real competence or high set standards of quality in them. I also don't know if its standards concerning safety or robustness or whatever; I think its mostly (all?) safety stuff, so I imagine they want to see double isolation, isolation values of the casings and such. Maybe that's why a non/bad functioning meter can perfectly pass that norm.
All I know is that DMM reviewers usually point it out if the DMM has it or not when they review a DMM.
Browsing through the Intertek database I also saw that the popular Uni-T UT-61e is UL listed. Apparently that also meets UL 61010 standards. That immediately shows that the UL61010 standard at least isn't of much use for the gas grill repair man
And in the Uni-Trend listings you can then also see that Uni-T makes products for amongst others AMPROBE, EXTECH, GRAINGER, GREENLEE, KLEIN TOOLS, MILWAUKEE, TENMA, Southwire, VOLTCRAFT, and BOSCH. Always interesting to see that (but not really unheard of of course)
The inside input protection of the Amazon Commercial 90DM600 as reviewed by Kiss Analog certainly looks similar with it's arrangement of PTC's and MOV's to the CEM DT9939 you've tested so indeed maybe it performs similar on that aspect.
Odd ETL would have the UL database. Are you sure that what you saw wasn't ETL testing the UT61E to the UL standards?
Odd ETL would have the UL database. Are you sure that what you saw wasn't ETL testing the UT61E to the UL standards?
You're right again. I'm looking in the Intertek database. I don't know how to look in the UL database. Didn't realize that's not the same thing, but makes sense.
So it's Intertek tested UL 61010 compliant.
And I think that also goes for the amazon commercial meters and CEM meters.
I don't know if Intertek can be trusted for safety certifications. I guess it all depends on what exactly is written in that safety certification.
If the things written in UL 61010 are not up to the standards/expectations you have when torture testing the meters to begin with, then it's not very useful to begin with. Have you a specific feature of the UL 61010 in your mind that Intertek does not check/check properly that makes you come to your opinion that ETL or Intertek can't be trusted?
Again, I am not trying to prove if the meters are safe. You should take the time to read the FAQ.
Again, I am not trying to prove if the meters are safe. You should take the time to read the FAQ.I know you're not trying to prove if the meters are safe, but you specifically write about your opinion on the integrity of Intertek/ETL organisation compared to UL, and I wonder if that makes sense or not (nofi) where it say would be different if UL had tested them or whether the UL norm (UL61010) itself doesn't meet your expectations.
Is non functioning autorange or being influenced by magnetic sources tested? (in any norm?). Maybe your expectations and assesmentcriteria of the concept of safety are way higher than is set out in these norms (they might form a very poor baseline to begin with; it's all a matter of how one's own expecations are).
Is non functioning autorange or being influenced by magnetic sources tested? (in any norm?).
Whether 90DM600 and 90DM610 are the same I don't know. Opening them up can only provide the answer .
I think specs and functionality from the manual are the same I believe for what I've seen.
I haven't seen 90DM610, but have played with the 90DM600 (those used to sell about $30-$40 couple months ago....Amazon pricing is grazy)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/amazon-commercial-90dm600-multimeter-hacks/
It would seem these are pretty much identical meters except the rotary switch has one more position on 90DM610, while 90DM600 likely is otherwise exact same meter...
Some photos including photo of the Intertek logo/number can be found here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/amazon-do-multimeters-now/msg3040260/#msg3040260
I registred at UL and have now some acces to their database.
UT61e isn't listed, but it's predecessor, the UT-60A/B/C/D is.
Looking at the internals of the UT-60, that also looks like it doesn't have a whole lot of input protection & glass fuses:
https://oliversmith.io/technology/2009/12/27/inside-the-uni-t-ut60a-multimeter/
Maybe you can make more of it.
So I don't know if it's specifically an Intertek/ETL thing or that the UL 61010 isn't that high of a standard.
I believe the standard only refers to meter electricral breakdowns though. They want to know if the meter can create an arc flash and hurt you, they aren't concerned with the accuracy or reliability of the readings on the screen.
(please correct me if I'm wrong about that)
If a HAZARD could arise from an OPERATOR'S reliance on the value (for example, voltage) displayed by the equipment, the display shall give an unambiguous indication whenever the value is above the maximum positive value or below the minimum negative value of the range to which the equipment is set.
After the voltage of ..... has been applied to the METER, the METER shall continue to be
able to indicate the presence of HAZARDOUS LIVE voltages up to the maximum RATED voltage.
Seasoned electricians use cheap light bulbs to check for presence of lethal voltages, not fancy mulltimeters. Carry a battery pack with you to check the bulb is good before and after you test the circuit. KISS.
I believe the standard only refers to meter electricral breakdowns though. They want to know if the meter can create an arc flash and hurt you, they aren't concerned with the accuracy or reliability of the readings on the screen.
(please correct me if I'm wrong about that)
I would say you are wrong but again, I am not an expert. Consider these two sections:QuoteIf a HAZARD could arise from an OPERATOR'S reliance on the value (for example, voltage) displayed by the equipment, the display shall give an unambiguous indication whenever the value is above the maximum positive value or below the minimum negative value of the range to which the equipment is set.QuoteAfter the voltage of ..... has been applied to the METER, the METER shall continue to be
able to indicate the presence of HAZARDOUS LIVE voltages up to the maximum RATED voltage.
I believe the standard only refers to meter electricral breakdowns though. They want to know if the meter can create an arc flash and hurt you, they aren't concerned with the accuracy or reliability of the readings on the screen.
(please correct me if I'm wrong about that)
I would say you are wrong but again, I am not an expert. Consider these two sections:QuoteIf a HAZARD could arise from an OPERATOR'S reliance on the value (for example, voltage) displayed by the equipment, the display shall give an unambiguous indication whenever the value is above the maximum positive value or below the minimum negative value of the range to which the equipment is set.QuoteAfter the voltage of ..... has been applied to the METER, the METER shall continue to be
able to indicate the presence of HAZARDOUS LIVE voltages up to the maximum RATED voltage.
OK, I'll go with wrong.
I'm not sure how to interpret "the range to which the equipment is set" in the case of an autoranging meter though.
I also don't know how they can certify 100% that there's no software bugs in the autoranging process.
Whether 90DM600 and 90DM610 are the same I don't know. Opening them up can only provide the answer .
I think specs and functionality from the manual are the same I believe for what I've seen.
I haven't seen 90DM610, but have played with the 90DM600 (those used to sell about $30-$40 couple months ago....Amazon pricing is grazy)
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/amazon-commercial-90dm600-multimeter-hacks/
It would seem these are pretty much identical meters except the rotary switch has one more position on 90DM610, while 90DM600 likely is otherwise exact same meter...
Some photos including photo of the Intertek logo/number can be found here:
https://www.eevblog.com/forum/testgear/amazon-do-multimeters-now/msg3040260/#msg3040260
I do own 90dm610 and can confirm that the markings on the back (referring to UL and Intertek standards) are identical to the ones on the back of 90dm600 as shown in sequoia's pictures.
Currently 90dm610 is $49 and 90dm600 is $86.18 (on Amazon USA). Yes, crazy prices (still have to figure Amazon's pricing strategy....)
It looks like a 50$ meter , it is funny how easily people compare them to a Fluke
My post was for that "review" youtube video , not about your tests
People have been concerned with damaging their meters as long as there have been meters. Here's an article from the 50s. Note, they don't seem to care about safety.
People have been concerned with damaging their meters as long as there have been meters. Here's an article from the 50s. Note, they don't seem to care about safety.
like any new bench scope that will go boom if you touch the probe ground clip to a live wire