Would really like to see some other brands run on it. Not low cost ones like I tested but ones that people just assume are good because they cost so much. Not thinking there are too many that would want to play this game. For those meters, it may be best to just stay with the drop and bucket tests.
Would really like to see some other brands run on it. Not low cost ones like I tested but ones that people just assume are good because they cost so much. Not thinking there are too many that would want to play this game. For those meters, it may be best to just stay with the drop and bucket tests.
I would really like to send you a Brymen BM829s, but it will cost me $80 to send it, plus the cost of the meter. It would be cheaper for me to build a pulse tester myself. I have around 10,000amps available at 48V with an impedance of around 0.1 ohm or less, and a neon transformer. The two don't work together but I would, like to build something that will do the job. The problem is that here in Chile it is hard to get anything, and loooooon time to get anything into the country.
I have around 10,000 amps available at 48V with an impedance of around 0.1 ohm or less, and a neon transformer. The two don't work together but I would, like to build something that will do the job.
I would really like to send you a Brymen BM829s, but it will cost me $80 to send it, plus the cost of the meter. It would be cheaper for me to build a pulse tester myself. I have around 10,000amps available at 48V with an impedance of around 0.1 ohm or less, and a neon transformer. The two don't work together but I would, like to build something that will do the job. The problem is that here in Chile it is hard to get anything, and loooooon time to get anything into the country.
I tried to see if it was available through Amazon. Is it possible there are rebranded versions that you know would be identical?
Please don't let my small test box fool you. It may seem like I did all this testing so fast that what I have shown is trivial. There was a lot of time invested, not to mention the cost and dangers involved. This isn't your little insulation tester. If you make a mistake, you may end up paying the ultimate price! There is a reason I have not disclosed any information about how it is built. I don't want unskilled people to play with this stuff thinking that there is no risks involved!
I would also like to point out that with the lack of standards on how to test them, using the IEC 61010 surge may not be the right way to evaluate them. Making a tester that is not calibrated to a NIST standard may not give your customers confidence in the data you take.
I would really like to see more electrical testing in reviews and would like to see something like this but I am just not sure this is the right answer.
I have around 10,000 amps available at 48V with an impedance of around 0.1 ohm or less, and a neon transformer. The two don't work together but I would, like to build something that will do the job.
48V at 10,000 Amps for what length of time?? Do you just have a large capacitor bank that you are charging, and then discharging. What do you use that for??
Believe me, I am very familiar with high voltage with some good current behind it. I was the engineering manager for a scientific equipment company. I designed, helped build, and commissioned equipment that had 10kV 1A DC 100% duty cycle power supplies, 5kW RF power, and both combined. They also had electron beam gun heated crucibles that had 1-5kv bias on 200amp current for the filaments. I also had to build and certify the equipment to CSA special installation requirements.
I understand fully what kind of circuitry you have on those boxes, just not the details.
Greenelee has the DM830A:
http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DM-830A-Digital-Multimeter-1000/dp/B003TO5YUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435975207&sr=8-1&keywords=greenlee+dm-830a
Which is the BM829 re-branded. The price right now is much higher than the BM829S.
http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DM-830A-Digital-Multimeter-1000/dp/B003TO5YUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435975207&sr=8-1&keywords=greenlee+dm-830a
QuoteBelieve me, I am very familiar with high voltage with some good current behind it. I was the engineering manager for a scientific equipment company. I designed, helped build, and commissioned equipment that had 10kV 1A DC 100% duty cycle power supplies, 5kW RF power, and both combined. They also had electron beam gun heated crucibles that had 1-5kv bias on 200amp current for the filaments. I also had to build and certify the equipment to CSA special installation requirements.
I understand fully what kind of circuitry you have on those boxes, just not the details.
This should be a walk in the park for you then. I look forward to seeing your setup.
QuoteGreenelee has the DM830A:
http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DM-830A-Digital-Multimeter-1000/dp/B003TO5YUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435975207&sr=8-1&keywords=greenlee+dm-830a
Which is the BM829 re-branded. The price right now is much higher than the BM829S.
http://www.amazon.com/Greenlee-DM-830A-Digital-Multimeter-1000/dp/B003TO5YUU/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1435975207&sr=8-1&keywords=greenlee+dm-830a
I checked the links. It's a bit too high priced for me just to run it against the Fluke 101.
Happy 4th of July!!!!!
It seems like a good day to blow stuff up with a homemade surge generator....
Do any of you guys have transformers that can deliver 600 to 1000V with some decent current behind it? My 1000V transformer can only supply 500mA, and that is not enough energy for this testing. Maybe this would be easier to test with DC? Lightages could charge those batteries up to 1000V, and see how long meters could survive that with some decent current behind the voltage?
So, now that this testing is complete, what's next?
BUT, what is VERY likely to occur very often is users applying voltage to inputs that they should not (resistance, capacitance, amps, etc). The videos you see most often from Fluke and MG are meters catching fire from this mismatch. 2nd Edition of the standard allowed manufacturers to say what the input was protected to (like 240V on resistance, even though the meter can measure to 600V). 3rd Edition now requires the meter can not be a hazard if the full voltage gets put on any input. Since this is WAY more likely to happen, I wonder how many low end meters would survive this?
But is a 1000 or 5000 at several amps very likely? I can't answer that.
16.2 Multifunction meters and similar equipment
Multifunction meters and similar equipment shall not cause a HAZARD in any possible combination
of RATED input voltages, and settings of function and range controls. Possible HAZARDS include
electric shock, fire, arcing and explosion.
Conformity is checked by the following test.The maximum RATED voltage specified for any function is applied to each pair of TERMINALS in
turn, in every combination of function and range controls. The test source connected to the
equipment measuring TERMINALS during this test is limited to 3.6 kVA for measurement category I
or measurement category II. For measurement category III or measurement category IV, the test
circuit has to be capable of delivering 30 kVA.
During and after the tests, no HAZARD shall arise.
Multifunction meters and similar equipment are to be tested by changing the Function/Range Selector to all
possible settings while connected to the maximum rated source.
101.4 Functional integrity
After the voltage of 4.4.2.101 has been applied to the METER, the METER shall continue to be
able to indicate the presence of HAZARDOUS LIVE voltages up to the maximum RATED voltage.
I thought this was covered in 4.4.2.101 and 101.
Dave does a good job checking this on at least on some of the meters he reviews. He plugs them into the outlet (220) and runs them through their paces.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=bKvyoZa5J8Q#t=1968
If we are talking real world, do you want to go higher than this? I think I could put something together fairly quickly if you want.
I can apply 1000V to each of the ranges, and even 5000V. It would only be with a few milliamps though. This did damage the UT61E but it does not demonstrate that the meter does not harm the user with these conditions. That would require something more like 1000V at 10 or 15 amps (or more) as would be available on a circuit of that type.
I should also say the fee is beyond reasonable. $340 for just the general part? So much for trying to protect the public. It is just a big cash grab, just like lawyers and accountants.
4.4.2.101 covers just the mains terminal
16.2 Multifunction meters and similar equipment
Yes, I know Dave puts 220 on to some meters he checks, but that is like some of the meters you tested surviving a 2,000V surge, when it could see as high as 6,000.
I can get to 3000V with 500mA behind it,
Sorry but I am not getting your point. These are two separate tests. Two separate goals. Again, my goal was to determine which meters were more robust than others. I did this by increasing the energy supplied to all the meters and seeing at what point they failed. Again, this has nothing to do with safety or meeting the IEC standards. What Dave is doing (IMO) is more real world common testing. I have done just what he is testing to countless times.
Is 3000V at 500mA a common thing people measure with their handhelds? If your goal is only to damage them, I can pop the back covers off and I'll hang it on that neon sign transformer. Seems I have seen that sort of thing happen before!
If the goal is just to see if meters can survive common faults, I think we need to define what that is. We could turn to IEC, but all they have is "REASONABLY FORESEEABLE MISUSE".
If you can think of a test that is something that you feel is a common problem for the average handheld user, post about it.
Quote4.4.2.101 covers just the mains terminal101 refers to 4.4.2.101. Mismatch of leads is covered in 101.3.
To be clear then, you would like to test them to the 4.4.2.101?
To be clear, I don't want them tested to ANY standard. You, more than anybody, should get what I'm saying.
I don't want to test them to a standard, but section 101.3 of 61010-2-033 (attached at the end) would serve as a decent test to base the testing off of.
I don't want to test them to a standard, but section 101.3 of 61010-2-033 (attached at the end) would serve as a decent test to base the testing off of. This section talks of putting the highest voltage the meter can test on the mains, on putting that on every jack, and every switch position. It does not require the meter to survive, just not become a hazard.
101.3.1 General
Conformity is checked by inspection, evaluation of the design of the equipment, and as
specified in 101.3.2 to 101.3.3, as applicable.
101.3.2 Protection by a certified overcurrent protection device
During and after the test, no damage to the equipment shall occur.
101.3.3 Protection by uncertified current limitation devices or by impedances
During and after the test, no HAZARD shall arise, nor shall there be any evidence of fire,
arcing, explosion, or damage to impedance limitation devices or any component intended to
provide protection against electric shock, heat, arc or fire, including the ENCLOSURE and traces
on the printed wiring board.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QEMCrGchLxs&feature=youtu.be
5. The tests should be done with the included test leads as they are part of the impedance path.