For those who have had a chance to play with these now, is there a full screen mode where all the menus go away and the full screen is used for waveform display?
Joel
So here is ci11's test and... it works! Pretty darn amazing.
The first photo below shows the signal level. 492Vp-p = 246uV(peak) = 174uV(rms). This is coming from a Krohn-Hite KH4400B audio oscillator (95% similar to their current KH4402B), which specs at 0.0005% THD at 20Hz. The scope BW limit is set to 20MHz, although it really didn't make that much difference. Keep in mind that the oscillator's attenuation network is a series of resistors. Even though the THD is very low the oscillator is adding a pile of Johnson/thermal noise to the signal. So that is not all scope noise floor visible in the signal, there is some incoming noise at this tiny level. Just one 49K series resistor at 25C with the 100KHz bandwidth of the generator would add 9uV of noise.
The second photo shows the capture and trigger with the scope on high definition mode.
I've posted a bunch of additional photos (high res photos, I can only get two attached per post) on Google Drive here including unboxing, test setup, and averaging acquire mode. Averaging acquire mode was almost as good as high res, I'll post that next (2 photo limit).
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0B67cJELZW-i8X294RF9XWFVkSDQ?usp=sharing
Do you have there some noise generator connected?
Where from this enormous noise?
Do you have there some noise generator connected?
Yep, see the post I just made above using Victor's oscillator (vastly lower noise than the KH4400B). The noise isn't coming from the KH RTB2004 scope, it is coming from the old audio oscillator. It is very low THD but not particularly low noise. Victor's is though, see above.
Now set 2mV/div, full BW, just real time raw running without high res, without averaging, without any kind of tricks what reject displayed noise. Say example 20kHz.
Image.
Do you have there some noise generator connected?
Yep, see the post I just made above using Victor's oscillator (vastly lower noise than the KH4400B). The noise isn't coming from the KH RTB2004 scope, it is coming from the old audio oscillator. It is very low THD but not particularly low noise. Victor's is though, see above.
Now set 2mV/div, full BW, just real time raw running without high res, without averaging, without any kind of tricks what reject displayed noise. Say example 20kHz.
Image.
Do you have there some noise generator connected?
Yep, see the post I just made above using Victor's oscillator (vastly lower noise than the KH4400B). The noise isn't coming from the KH RTB2004 scope, it is coming from the old audio oscillator. It is very low THD but not particularly low noise. Victor's is though, see above.
Now set 2mV/div, full BW, just real time raw running without high res, without averaging, without any kind of tricks what reject displayed noise. Say example 20kHz.
Image.
Using two totally different setups I'm not sure what's supposed to be achieved here.
Regarding noise, here are some tests with a BNC shorting cap on channel 1. Vertical all the way up at 1mV/div, 20us time base. The scope is set to measure the peak to peak voltage in the lower left corner.
The first two are normal acquisition mode, first on 20MHz BW limit and the second at full bandwidth. 270uVp-p and 900uVp-p respectively.
The next two are high definition acquisition, first on 20MHz BW limit and the final at full bandwidth. 138uVp-p and 152uVp-p respectively.
Now it looks better, nearly like Sigl. (meaningful is full BW 1mV/div raw realtime mode without any "cleaning" functions on.)
Now it looks better, nearly like Sigl. (meaningful is full BW 1mV/div raw realtime mode without any "cleaning" functions on.)
Which Siglent model(s) are you comparing to?
Would you have any data? (Maybe they are already posted on a Siglent thread somewhere, but I can't recall.)
Thanks!
For those who have had a chance to play with these now, is there a full screen mode where all the menus go away and the full screen is used for waveform display?
Joel
No, the top and bottom menus are always visible.
Also - just a usage reminder - remember that pressing the vertical encoder knob goes from "coarse" to "fine" divisions which helps mitigate a bit that annoying thing Mike noted of the encoders having detents.
Having detents or not does not matter at all. These are rotary encodes, which have discrete output by design. I would rather complain that R&S skimped on the encoders, but with coarse resolution dials having detents is actually helpful, because it gives some feedback on adjustments.
Also - just a usage reminder - remember that pressing the vertical encoder knob goes from "coarse" to "fine" divisions which helps mitigate a bit that annoying thing Mike noted of the encoders having detents.
Having detents or not does not matter at all. These are rotary encodes, which have discrete output by design. I would rather complain that R&S skimped on the encoders, but with coarse resolution dials having detents is actually helpful, because it gives some feedback on adjustments.The thing about the detents is that they prevent decent velocity sensing. Not a big deal for vert/horiz, but a pain for the general purpose adjust knob, e.g. adjusting holdoff , pulse trig width etc.
Just for compare, (previous detail image from R&S @agdr
Same settings (afaik)
Around same ballpark (note BW diffeerence R&S 300MHz / Sig measured BW around 200MHz, nameplate BW 100MHz)
Also - just a usage reminder - remember that pressing the vertical encoder knob goes from "coarse" to "fine" divisions which helps mitigate a bit that annoying thing Mike noted of the encoders having detents.
Having detents or not does not matter at all. These are rotary encodes, which have discrete output by design. I would rather complain that R&S skimped on the encoders, but with coarse resolution dials having detents is actually helpful, because it gives some feedback on adjustments.The thing about the detents is that they prevent decent velocity sensing. Not a big deal for vert/horiz, but a pain for the general purpose adjust knob, e.g. adjusting holdoff , pulse trig width etc.
When you first mentioned the detented knobs I thought I wouldn't care. I do understand where you're coming from though after having used it for 20-30 hours.
The thing about the detents is that they prevent decent velocity sensing. Not a big deal for vert/horiz, but a pain for the general purpose adjust knob, e.g. adjusting holdoff , pulse trig width etc.
Just for compare, (previous detail image from R&S @agdr
Same settings (afaik)
Around same ballpark (note BW diffeerence R&S 300MHz / Sig measured BW around 200MHz, nameplate BW 100MHz)Noise comparisons have to use the same analog bandwidth, same memory depth, same sample rate, and same update rate, otherwise they are not apples-apples.
Now it looks better, nearly like Sigl. (meaningful is full BW 1mV/div raw realtime mode without any "cleaning" functions on.)
Which Siglent model(s) are you comparing to?
Would you have any data? (Maybe they are already posted on a Siglent thread somewhere, but I can't recall.)
Thanks!Bog standard SDS1kX.
When I saw Mikes vid I thought R&S might have done better than Siglent's best selling model but no.
I'd put some shots up but I'm out of stock, anyway there's plenty of examples in the SDS1000X thread.