Didn't seem possible they would design the scope with such a low rate. Hopefully that gets fixed in the rumored "pro" version of the scope.
I don't think it's a bad scope, but with the current pricing it's now too close to the 3000T. If there is a pro version it will be interesting to see how they position it against the 3000T without lowering the current price of the 'non-Pro' version significantly.I normally try not to intervene because this forum does such a good job of correcting misinformation itself, but your comment caught my attention.
Clearly the RTB2000 was designed to compete with the 2000x and DPO2000 from Tek. And with that you get a 10-bit ADC, significantly longer memory, a large, high resolution touch display, significantly lower noise, more SR and (available) bandwidth, 1mV/div in HW with full bandwidth, similar to better update rate, boots faster, standard ethernet, etc, etc. There are few to no specs that those products beat the RTB2000 on and they are priced similarly.
Even when comparing to the x3000T, the RTB2000 gives you a 4x the vertical resolution (10-bit ADC), significantly more memory, a larger, higher resolution display, lower noise, 1mV/div in HW with full bandwidth, standard ethernet and in most cases it costs half the price. I wouldn't call that too close. Does the x3000T have benefits? Sure - more available bandwidth/SR, 50Ohm input and higher update rate. But again, the RTB2000 wasn't designed to compete with the x3000T hence the reason it doesn't have those features.
In the end, value is clearly a personal belief (of which I personally think we stack up extremely well on value), but I wouldn't say the current pricing is too close to the x3000T.
Didn't seem possible they would design the scope with such a low rate. Hopefully that gets fixed in the rumored "pro" version of the scope.
I don't think it's a bad scope, but with the current pricing it's now too close to the 3000T. If there is a pro version it will be interesting to see how they position it against the 3000T without lowering the current price of the 'non-Pro' version significantly.I normally try not to intervene because this forum does such a good job of correcting misinformation itself, but your comment caught my attention.
Clearly the RTB2000 was designed to compete with the 2000x and DPO2000 from Tek. And with that you get a 10-bit ADC, significantly longer memory, a large, high resolution touch display, significantly lower noise, more SR and (available) bandwidth, 1mV/div in HW with full bandwidth, similar to better update rate, boots faster, standard ethernet, etc, etc. There are few to no specs that those products beat the RTB2000 on and they are priced similarly.
Even when comparing to the x3000T, the RTB2000 gives you a 4x the vertical resolution (10-bit ADC), significantly more memory, a larger, higher resolution display, lower noise, 1mV/div in HW with full bandwidth, standard ethernet and in most cases it costs half the price. I wouldn't call that too close. Does the x3000T have benefits? Sure - more available bandwidth/SR, 50Ohm input and higher update rate. But again, the RTB2000 wasn't designed to compete with the x3000T hence the reason it doesn't have those features.
In the end, value is clearly a personal belief (of which I personally think we stack up extremely well on value), but I wouldn't say the current pricing is too close to the x3000T.Without including the options this comparison is apples & oranges especially if the Keysight x3000T can be hacked to get the options for free. Besides that the R&S options quickly add several $k where Keysight charges less than 1$k for the most popular ones. AFAIK the R&S has a lower base price but more expensive options compared to Keysight.
Let me say something about 'hacking' test instruments. It's stealing, it's the same as robbing tools out of a hardware store. When you steal every honest person who buys that product pays extra.
I think the current 2000X 2 channel pricing is in the $1000 territory, I saw some new units being sold by Fry's for $950 (local in store pick only), so maybe Keysight is getting rid of the 2000X inventory.
Let me say something about 'hacking' test instruments. It's stealing, it's the same as robbing tools out of a hardware store. When you steal every honest person who buys that product pays extra.
Once you buy a piece of hardware, it is yours to do with as you please.
Didn't seem possible they would design the scope with such a low rate. Hopefully that gets fixed in the rumored "pro" version of the scope.
I don't think it's a bad scope, but with the current pricing it's now too close to the 3000T. If there is a pro version it will be interesting to see how they position it against the 3000T without lowering the current price of the 'non-Pro' version significantly.I normally try not to intervene because this forum does such a good job of correcting misinformation itself, but your comment caught my attention.
Clearly the RTB2000 was designed to compete with the 2000x and DPO2000 from Tek. And with that you get a 10-bit ADC, significantly longer memory, a large, high resolution touch display, significantly lower noise, more SR and (available) bandwidth, 1mV/div in HW with full bandwidth, similar to better update rate, boots faster, standard ethernet, etc, etc. There are few to no specs that those products beat the RTB2000 on and they are priced similarly.
Even when comparing to the x3000T, the RTB2000 gives you a 4x the vertical resolution (10-bit ADC), significantly more memory, a larger, higher resolution display, lower noise, 1mV/div in HW with full bandwidth, standard ethernet and in most cases it costs half the price. I wouldn't call that too close. Does the x3000T have benefits? Sure - more available bandwidth/SR, 50Ohm input and higher update rate. But again, the RTB2000 wasn't designed to compete with the x3000T hence the reason it doesn't have those features.
In the end, value is clearly a personal belief (of which I personally think we stack up extremely well on value), but I wouldn't say the current pricing is too close to the x3000T.Without including the options this comparison is apples & oranges especially if the Keysight x3000T can be hacked to get the options for free. Besides that the R&S options quickly add several $k where Keysight charges less than 1$k for the most popular ones. AFAIK the R&S has a lower base price but more expensive options compared to Keysight.
I couldn't be happier with my RTB2004. As has been said repeatedly, the promo deal was a no brainer.
As for R&S - their previous attempt to get Dave to pull hacking info on an outdated product from the forum appears to mean they are taking a harder line. Perhaps that will change. I almost wonder if their screaming good no-brainer promotional deal on the RTB2004 (at least for the US market) was an attempt to put fully loaded scopes in the hands of earlier adopters who might otherwise be tempted to investigate the hacking possibilities...
I couldn't be happier with my RTB2004. As has been said repeatedly, the promo deal was a no brainer.As for R&S - their previous attempt to get Dave to pull hacking info on an outdated product from the forum appears to mean they are taking a harder line. Perhaps that will change. I almost wonder if their screaming good no-brainer promotional deal on the RTB2004 (at least for the US market) was an attempt to put fully loaded scopes in the hands of earlier adopters who might otherwise be tempted to investigate the hacking possibilities...No ulterior motives - we honestly wanted to get the product in to the hands of early adopters. And for those early adopters we have some other cool ideas planned - stay tuned
With respect to the hacking - not my place to bless or not bless the activity, but as you said, you own the equipment. Each person/company will make their own decisions based on that.
-Rich
Rich, is there anything being looked at to make these (expensive for hobbyists, as you admit) decode options better? I'm mainly thinking of the bi-directional UART/SPI decode without using both decode slots, which can be a bit limiting.
This is not a dig at the RTB2k - it's clear that every brand has their advantages (e.g. KS for faster and more consistent update rate, better math options, R&S for screen size, resolution and memory depth) and I'm very happy with my launch offer unit, especially with the mention that more goodies may be yet to come!
So are our options expensive? Maybe. But we've certainly tried to follow the industry norm of bundling to help with that pricing. And again, value is a personal opinion, but I don't believe we are priced out of line with the competition and typically bring an even better performance for a similar price.
So are our options expensive? Maybe. But we've certainly tried to follow the industry norm of bundling to help with that pricing. And again, value is a personal opinion, but I don't believe we are priced out of line with the competition and typically bring an even better performance for a similar price.But now you are putting a B brand Hameg scope next to A brand scopes from Keysight, Tektronix & Lecroy and try to justify the very high price. But on what is that based??? For example: If you buy the MSO option for Keysight, Lecroy, Tektronix (*) you get a well built probe and not a flimsy hobby-Bob ribbon cable. Also Keysight (>3000 series), Lecroy and Tektronix have a large portfolio with probing solutions. For example: a couple of years ago I bought a Tektronix scope + current probe for a customer where the current probe was more expensive than the scope itself. And lets not forget to look east and see what the Asian TE brands are coming up with nowadays.
If I look at the RTB2000 it sits somewhere between Rigol/Siglent and Keysight/Lecroy/Tektronix and should be priced accordingly. It makes no sense to buy a B brand if the same money buys an A brand.
* For completeness: also GW Instek, Rigol and Siglent.
If you want to charge the same like current Keysight & Tektronix offerings it has to be just as polished and that is what is missing on the RTB2000.
Current Tektronix offerings in this category have some serious shortcomings IMHO. Current Keysight offerings have some advantages but also some shortcomings as has been pointed out by several people.
Different companies likely view the hacking differently. If you read between the lines, it seems pretty clear that Chinese companies such as Rigol and Siglent give their tacit approval and may even count on it in their product development and pricing.
Different companies likely view the hacking differently. If you read between the lines, it seems pretty clear that Chinese companies such as Rigol and Siglent give their tacit approval and may even count on it in their product development and pricing.Put Rigol in that basket for sure but not Siglent.
Numerous FW releases have attempted to close avenues for hacking in Siglent products however once users get a taste for the goodies liberated their efforts redouble to get them back again.
Different companies likely view the hacking differently. If you read between the lines, it seems pretty clear that Chinese companies such as Rigol and Siglent give their tacit approval and may even count on it in their product development and pricing.Put Rigol in that basket for sure but not Siglent.
Numerous FW releases have attempted to close avenues for hacking in Siglent products however once users get a taste for the goodies liberated their efforts redouble to get them back again.But you have to admit it does help sales a lot! If Siglent was really making an effort to close the holes in the SSA3000 and SDG2000 they would have done it by now.