That this discussion has to be held at all is a joke, isn't it? I mean, "the helping hand" has already failed at the crucial point of withholding the crucial documentation.
That this discussion has to be held at all is a joke, isn't it? I mean, "the helping hand" has already failed at the crucial point of withholding the crucial documentation.
The discussion doesn't have to be held, and seems a complete waste of time for you. How about go start another thread.. this one is borderline off topic at this point.
That this discussion has to be held at all is a joke, isn't it? I mean, "the helping hand" has already failed at the crucial point of withholding the crucial documentation.
The discussion doesn't have to be held, and seems a complete waste of time for you. How about go start another thread.. this one is borderline off topic at this point.
Thanks Mr. Keithley for your statement. A company that personally mocks its clients the way you are doing right now, does not have the competence to be referenced in my firm. I will discard all Keithley gauges over time, and will advise my clients to refrain from using Keithley, citing your personally abusive behavior. Thank you for your clarification in this regard, this will protect many of my customers from similar negative experiences.
Communication closed with you.
With kind regards
In that class of Instrument (low end 6 digit), I would not expect extra calibration data. Anyway with a digital adjustment expect the data read back to be essentially spot on down to the noise level. So the read back data from the initial calibration (with adjustment) are of little use, especially as there can be quite some drift in the initial phase. The numbers may be useful for the 2nd and 3rd calibration - here it is up to the customers choice.
So I would not blame Keithley for not wasting paper on pretty useless numbers that may give ignorant people a false believe in extra accuracy.
In that class of Instrument (low end 6 digit), I would not expect extra calibration data. Anyway with a digital adjustment expect the data read back to be essentially spot on down to the noise level. So the read back data from the initial calibration (with adjustment) are of little use, especially as there can be quite some drift in the initial phase. The numbers may be useful for the 2nd and 3rd calibration - here it is up to the customers choice.
So I would not blame Keithley for not wasting paper on pretty useless numbers that may give ignorant people a false believe in extra accuracy.
In that class of Instrument (low end 6 digit), I would not expect extra calibration data. Anyway with a digital adjustment expect the data read back to be essentially spot on down to the noise level. So the read back data from the initial calibration (with adjustment) are of little use, especially as there can be quite some drift in the initial phase. The numbers may be useful for the 2nd and 3rd calibration - here it is up to the customers choice.
So I would not blame Keithley for not wasting paper on pretty useless numbers that may give ignorant people a false believe in extra accuracy.Let's all agree to disagree and move on. We're not going to get anywhere rehashing the same opposing views.
That this discussion has to be held at all is a joke, isn't it? I mean, "the helping hand" has already failed at the crucial point of withholding the crucial documentation.
The discussion doesn't have to be held, and seems a complete waste of time for you. How about go start another thread.. this one is borderline off topic at this point.
Thanks Mr. Keithley for your statement. A company that personally mocks its clients the way you are doing right now, does not have the competence to be referenced in my firm. I will discard all Keithley gauges over time, and will advise my clients to refrain from using Keithley, citing your personally abusive behavior. Thank you for your clarification in this regard, this will protect many of my customers from similar negative experiences.
Communication closed with you.
With kind regards
In that class of Instrument (low end 6 digit), I would not expect extra calibration data. Anyway with a digital adjustment expect the data read back to be essentially spot on down to the noise level. So the read back data from the initial calibration (with adjustment) are of little use, especially as there can be quite some drift in the initial phase. The numbers may be useful for the 2nd and 3rd calibration - here it is up to the customers choice.
So I would not blame Keithley for not wasting paper on pretty useless numbers that may give ignorant people a false believe in extra accuracy.Let's all agree to disagree and move on. We're not going to get anywhere rehashing the same opposing views.
You keep insisting a DMM6500 is a low grade instrument but other than from the perspective of a rabid volt nut that seems to be pushing it. 0.0075% and that dynamic range is pretty good in the real world and bought for other reasons than say a Fluke 87V.
,Now i see all E-Design posts are disappear from that thread. I think it is bad sign.
I stand behind my opinion. Even if some people can't handle it.
,Now i see all E-Design posts are disappear from that thread. I think it is bad sign.I confirm. From the topic about DMM7510, all messages also disappeared. In my opinion this is ugly
DM6500, Keysight 34460, 34461, 34465 and all similar instruments are not metrology grade instruments. Sorry to disappoint.
They all come with datasheets that exactly specify what are their measurement uncertainties (that are in several tens of ppm in best ranges) . Even if you have calibration data that shows that you instrument had zero error on say 10V range three months ago, today, all anybody knows is that you should be in 90 days accuracy spec that for DMM6500 would be 20ppm + 5ppm ±(% OF READING + % OF RANGE) ), meaning 10 V ± 250uV. You might be better than that (and probably would be) but if you had even 248 uV of error (meaning last 2 digits would be wrong) you still would be in specification and instrument would be considered in good shape. On other ranges situation is much worse actually. Keysight 34460 that is also 6.5 digit meter, is much worse on 10 V range. It has 90 days spec of (50 ppm + 5ppm ±(% OF READING + % OF RANGE) ) that translates to error of max ±550 uV on 10 V voltage, before it is out of spec. More than half of millivolt.. And that is for 90 days. More than 1 years after calibration, 34460 can have ±1 mV error when measuring 10V and still would be in spec. That would mean, that at that point, last 2 digits are completely meaningless in terms of absolute accuracy..
Most of instruments in that class do much better than spec, but manufacturer guarantees only that they will be in spec. And if you use those instruments in your work, all you can guarantee to your customers is that you measured with instrument that is in spec..
That is for absolute accuracy measurements. For relative measurements, all you can guarantee is 24 hour specs.
So when you accept those facts, why would manufacturer give you data that is meaningless, except statement instrument is in specification... If you want play with instrument pretending it is something it isn't, that is users problem. But, even if you calibrate DMM6500 every day and it has no error for 5 years, and suddenly one day it has 13ppm error on 10V range, it would still be fully in spec.
Actually, compared with competition, DMM6500 has very impressive specs that almost seem too optimistic. It has better 2 year specs than Keysight 34465 1 year's spec on 10 V range for instance..
But none of those are Keysight 3458, or Fluke 8508A, and calibration practice is not the same...
Calling me a troll is an insult. And this from a contestant with a whole thanks of 3 times, compared to my 183rd. Ok, I'll pull some of Mr.Keysight's that I guess weren't quite so serious. I never thought that I would have to refer to such a score here in the forum, but here it shows, where this "troll screaming" comes from. From people who simply run out of arguments. Instead of accepting different opinions, they switch to the personal level and fire what they can, even if the whole forum cohesion breaks down. Seems to be a depravity of a modern discourse culture, incapable of accepting a different opinions. They prefer to ramble on about ignorance lists, so that they would rather not see the other opinion.
Dear people, this is pure socialism. In the end, there is an anthill of individuals who are completely conformist. But only a pluralistic view of things brings creativity and cultural awareness.
I stand behind my opinion. Even if some people can't handle it.
Hey guys, I am still here and willing to help anybody out (even hwj-d) because I am happy to do it and participate in all the cool projects, discussions and topics.
I got rid of some of my old posts because I am not an Apps Eng or here for any official reasons related to Tek or Keithley. I'm just here on my own accord. I dont want to misrepresent myself or cause confusion!
Sorry about that.
If anybody wants some help or support with KI or Tek products , I can work on it for you or at least get you connected to the right people.
No worries, hopefully some tech discussion gets us back on topic.
The discussion about whether a bare bones base model dmm6500 should come with or without a call report
is rather pointless....
The discussion about whether a bare bones base model dmm6500 should come with or without a call report
is rather pointless.
As always, you get what you pay for, and you don't get what you don't pay for.
The first time I've purchased a brand new car it came with a less than half full fuel tank,
although disappointed because my expectation was different I really had no right to because
the friendly dealer delivered what I had ordered, no agreements were made on the amount of fuel in the car.
If I had at time of purchase made a agreement with the dealer to deliver the car with a full tank of fuel
he had certainly done so, but I hadn't.
Maybe even could have worked in a inflatable pink crocodile into the deal, but also hadn't, so have to accept that I have to continue live without one, unless I purchase one.
(Attachment Link)
Hey guys, I am still here and willing to help anybody out (even hwj-d) because I am happy to do it and participate in all the cool projects, discussions and topics.
If anybody wants some help or support with KI or Tek products , I can work on it for you or at least get you connected to the right people.
Hey guys, I am still here and willing to help anybody out (even hwj-d) because I am happy to do it and participate in all the cool projects, discussions and topics.
I got rid of some of my old posts because I am not an Apps Eng or here for any official reasons related to Tek or Keithley. I'm just here on my own accord. I dont want to misrepresent myself or cause confusion!
Sorry about that.
If anybody wants some help or support with KI or Tek products , I can work on it for you or at least get you connected to the right people.
No worries, hopefully some tech discussion gets us back on topic.Can you tell us something about the decisions involved in picking the hardware for this meter, especially the front end UI hardware part? It seems there are incredible options available in the form of ridiculously powerful and efficient phone SoCs. Do you have any insights how and why you ended up with the machine we see today? I understand this may not be your cup of tea, so please feel free to tell us about your part.
Hey guys, I am still here and willing to help anybody out (even hwj-d) because I am happy to do it and participate in all the cool projects, discussions and topics.
If anybody wants some help or support with KI or Tek products , I can work on it for you or at least get you connected to the right people.
Hello E-Design,
I recently (after upgrading the firmware) began experiencing some issues with the power button of the DMM6500. When I press the button to turn it off sometimes (maybe 30% of the times) it immediately turns on again, as if it was some kind of debouncing issue. Are you aware of any modification to the firmware that could have caused that or do you think the problem is not related to the firmware at all?
I'm getting a 2450, and I was checking the TSP-Link addon of the DMM6500, but then I found it apparently is possible to use the LAN to communicate between Keithley instruments (which of course would spare me some money). What are the differences between using TSP-NET and TSP-Link to communicate between Keithley instruments?
Thanks in advance
Hey guys, I am still here and willing to help anybody out (even hwj-d) because I am happy to do it and participate in all the cool projects, discussions and topics.
If anybody wants some help or support with KI or Tek products , I can work on it for you or at least get you connected to the right people.
Hello E-Design,
I recently (after upgrading the firmware) began experiencing some issues with the power button of the DMM6500. When I press the button to turn it off sometimes (maybe 30% of the times) it immediately turns on again, as if it was some kind of debouncing issue. Are you aware of any modification to the firmware that could have caused that or do you think the problem is not related to the firmware at all?
I'm getting a 2450, and I was checking the TSP-Link addon of the DMM6500, but then I found it apparently is possible to use the LAN to communicate between Keithley instruments (which of course would spare me some money). What are the differences between using TSP-NET and TSP-Link to communicate between Keithley instruments?
Thanks in advance