Here is your open invitation to provide credible documentation to change our minds.I'm sorry but there is no way to have a decent discussion with you. I tried to explain a few things (with references) several times and every time you get it wrong and/or make it look like I wrote things I never wrote. Enough is enough.
Why do you say I'me getting it wrong. I'm just reading what what was in the links you posted and repeating what I read. We've provided links for you and asked you questiosns which you have refused to answer. In the links for the documents you've posted you appear to adding additional information that's not in the documents. All we are doing is using Critial Thinking skills, you should do the same.
I invite you to re-read the documents you provided links to and you will see all the Dutch comapny is offering is a licence for EX Bale. There is NOTHING in the documentation saying they are the ones converting bio-mass to bio-fuel. That is somehting the American companies are doing and have been doing.
You seem to think cane sugar can grow in Europe as it does in Brazil. If what you are saying is true there would have been no sugar/slave trade hundreds of years ago.
Here is your open invitation to provide credible documentation to change our minds.I'm sorry but there is no way to have a decent discussion with you. I tried to explain a few things (with references) several times and every time you get it wrong and/or make it look like I wrote things I never wrote. Enough is enough.
Why do you say I'me getting it wrong. I'm just reading what what was in the links you posted and repeating what I read. We've provided links for you and asked you questiosns which you have refused to answer. In the links for the documents you've posted you appear to adding additional information that's not in the documents. All we are doing is using Critial Thinking skills, you should do the same.
I invite you to re-read the documents you provided links to and you will see all the Dutch comapny is offering is a licence for EX Bale. There is NOTHING in the documentation saying they are the ones converting bio-mass to bio-fuel. That is somehting the American companies are doing and have been doing.
You seem to think cane sugar can grow in Europe as it does in Brazil. If what you are saying is true there would have been no sugar/slave trade hundreds of years ago.Please stop making a fool out of yourself for your own sake. I never wrote anything remotely resembling your ramblings!
sugar cane is a pest. talk to the people in Maui .... they are all too happy they finally stopped farming that stuff..
Here is your open invitation to provide credible documentation to change our minds.I'm sorry but there is no way to have a decent discussion with you. I tried to explain a few things (with references) several times and every time you get it wrong and/or make it look like I wrote things I never wrote. Enough is enough.
Why do you say I'me getting it wrong. I'm just reading what what was in the links you posted and repeating what I read. We've provided links for you and asked you questiosns which you have refused to answer. In the links for the documents you've posted you appear to adding additional information that's not in the documents. All we are doing is using Critial Thinking skills, you should do the same.
I invite you to re-read the documents you provided links to and you will see all the Dutch comapny is offering is a licence for EX Bale. There is NOTHING in the documentation saying they are the ones converting bio-mass to bio-fuel. That is somehting the American companies are doing and have been doing.
You seem to think cane sugar can grow in Europe as it does in Brazil. If what you are saying is true there would have been no sugar/slave trade hundreds of years ago.Please stop making a fool out of yourself for your own sake. I never wrote anything remotely resembling your ramblings!
So follow the scientific method and present your scientific evidence. Marketing materials like religious propaganda don’t count. The opportunity is yours.
So, for a BEV as a citycar, it's basically a matter of:
- Cost: but products usually get cheaper when manufactured in large amounts. Would the prices of BEVs get lower with larger production?
- Green electricity generation: it's more like a general issue than an EV issue. We should be lowering our carbon footprint anyways. Still, big engines have better efficiency than small engines.
- Grid capacity: for the demand of BEVs charging over-night in every house, plus daytime charging at the stations. This would need to be upgraded as more BEVs are sold, because of the increasing electricity demand.
For long-range travel, you need to add the issue of the charging stations, and the charging time. But in 30 minutes you can get substantial charge into a BEV, as the slow part of the charge is when the battery is over around 80%.
Look at this, interesting for an hybrid with a turbine engine. Less weight and the same efficiency than the best ICEs: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/green-cars/deltas-micro-turbine-range-extender-will-make-production-2019-model
Why Tesla receives such criticism in the videos?
Why Tesla receives such criticism in the videos?
[...]
35kWh battery, approx 225km range.
100kW (134hp) electric motor and 214 ft-lbs of torque
14 kWh / 100km power consumption.
That’s at C$0.085/kWh or $1.19 for 100km; or about 0.8 litre / 100km with local gas prices
[...]
Why Tesla receives such criticism in the videos?
Because Telsa concentrate on only one part of the business. Their after-sale and parts available (and used Tesla purchase programs) are utter and complete crap. You can find dozens and dozens of people waiting months for simple parts, or in this case, the purchase of a used certified pre-owned Tesla that has taken 2+ months and counting (and this to a guy who has a big Tesla following)
The lack of dealing with the rest of the business will be Tesla's downfall.
So, for a BEV as a citycar, it's basically a matter of:
- Cost: but products usually get cheaper when manufactured in large amounts. Would the prices of BEVs get lower with larger production?
- Green electricity generation: it's more like a general issue than an EV issue. We should be lowering our carbon footprint anyways. Still, big engines have better efficiency than small engines.
- Grid capacity: for the demand of BEVs charging over-night in every house, plus daytime charging at the stations. This would need to be upgraded as more BEVs are sold, because of the increasing electricity demand.
For long-range travel, you need to add the issue of the charging stations, and the charging time. But in 30 minutes you can get substantial charge into a BEV, as the slow part of the charge is when the battery is over around 80%.
Look at this, interesting for an hybrid with a turbine engine. Less weight and the same efficiency than the best ICEs: https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/green-cars/deltas-micro-turbine-range-extender-will-make-production-2019-model
Why Tesla receives such criticism in the videos?
Reason Tesla receives such criticism is because it's an experiment in progress. The other is the crazy claims Elon makes. A BEV semi-truck which can travel 800 miles between charges. He is correct, but the truck couldn't haul anything as all of the cargo space would be filled with batteries.
But when it comes to his cars, people are sure buying them. And the market cap of his company is 10 times that of Ford. Analysists keep insisting he's going bankrupt, yet every time Elon has proved them wrong. Got to give credit where credit is due.
As for EVs did you see the video comparing Hybrids, BEVs and PHEVs? While BEVs may sound ideal, economically they are a terrible deal for the consumer. I think the breakeven between and ICE and BEV is 200,000 km. What’s interesting is the proven reliability and safety of the battery technology used in EVs.
https://youtu.be/5RDQj276EhI
Hey Boffin, in snafu.ca you have some typos:Quote[...]
35kWh battery, approx 225km range.
100kW (134hp) electric motor and 214 ft-lbs of torque
14 kWh / 100km power consumption.
That’s at C$0.085/kWh or $1.19 for 100km; or about 0.8 litre / 100km with local gas prices
[...]
1) 35[kWh]/225[km] is 15.5 kWh/100km not 14.
2) kWh is a unit of energy not power.
In this page:
https://www.greencarreports.com/news/1103654_volkswagen-e-golf-real-world-range-vs-epa-estimates-over-six-month-test/page-2
they say the trip computer shows (after six months) an average of 3.7 miles per kWh, that's 100/(3.7*1.60934)= 16.8 kWh/100km (20% more than your figures), that corrected for out-of-the-wall-plug-energy is around 16.8/0.85= 19.7 kWh/100km (41% more than your figures)
It also says "At the approximately 14 cents per kilowatt hour that we pay in Portland, Oregon", but your figure for that is another unbelievably good C$0.085 = US$0.06 or less than half as much (does electricity in the USA really cost 233% more than yours?)
Here: https://www.gasbuddy.com/CAN
It says the price per litre of gasoline in Canada goes from C$0.91 to C$1.24, the average of which is 1.08 so $1.19/1.08= 1.1 litres (which is 37% more than what you say).
If we put in all the other sites' numbers and do the math again:
19.7[kWh/100km]*0.14[US$/kWh]= 2.75 [US$/100km] = 3.67 [C$/100km]
3.67/1.08= 3.4 litres of gasoline/100 km
The picture is a completely different one, isn't it?
Your numbers always seem too good to be true.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Tesla in the business of selling new cars? From what I understand they are doing well. Consumers are buying the cars and are very pleased.
Tesla is an experiment unfolding. DISRUPTON is what this generation is all about. Elon did that with the banking industry and PayPal. Let’s go I’ve credit where credit is due. But look at how he has sucessfully disrupted the car industry. Like the guy or his car company one thing is for sure he disrupted the car industry. Give the guy credit for doiing so.
Will Tesla cars succeed? Who knows. But for the last 10 years or expert analysts have been saying Tesla Motors will fail and go bankrupt. So far all of those “experts” have been wrong.
Just look at the guy in the video. He want’s a Tesla so bad he’s willing to put money down on a used Tesla without even seeing pictures of the car or even knowing when he can take delivery of the car.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Tesla in the business of selling new cars? From what I understand they are doing well. Consumers are buying the cars and are very pleased.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Tesla in the business of selling new cars? From what I understand they are doing well. Consumers are buying the cars and are very pleased.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Tesla in the business of selling new cars? From what I understand they are doing well. Consumers are buying the cars and are very pleased.and circling back to your original question, the answer is essentially NO. Tesla can't just be in the business of selling new, they also need to be in the business of building, selling used (trade ins) and selling parts/service; or they'll get crushed by the rest of the companies that provide full service.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Tesla in the business of selling new cars? From what I understand they are doing well. Consumers are buying the cars and are very pleased.and circling back to your original question, the answer is essentially NO. Tesla can't just be in the business of selling new, they also need to be in the business of building, selling used (trade ins) and selling parts/service; or they'll get crushed by the rest of the companies that provide full service.Tell me which car manufacturers are in the business of selling used cars? AFAIK none. Sure some dealerships sell used vehicles and they (usually) are happy to service any car from the brand they represent but dealers are independant companies.
[...]
Yes, electricity is that cheap here.
C$0.085/kWh. This part of the country has a lot of (cheap/green) hydro electric power, and results in those rates. https://app.bchydro.com/accounts-billing/rates-energy-use/electricity-rates/residential-rates.html
[...]
If you include sales tax,which I didn't in my original calculation, and wall consumption as opposed to vehicle reported consumption, which brings the numbers to 9.1c/kWh and 18kWh/100km, you end up with
18 * 0.091 = $1.638/100km, or about 1.2l/100km.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Tesla in the business of selling new cars? From what I understand they are doing well. Consumers are buying the cars and are very pleased.and circling back to your original question, the answer is essentially NO. Tesla can't just be in the business of selling new, they also need to be in the business of building, selling used (trade ins) and selling parts/service; or they'll get crushed by the rest of the companies that provide full service.Tell me which car manufacturers are in the business of selling used cars? AFAIK none. Sure some dealerships sell used vehicles and they (usually) are happy to service any car from the brand they represent but dealers are independant companies.
All of them have 'Certified Pre-Owned' programs of some sort. Here's your 'none' (aka what you'd like to believe) versus reality
https://usedvehicles.vwmodels.ca/search/
https://www.mercedes-benz.ca/en/cpo
https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/certified-used
https://www.hondacertified.com/
https://www.ford.ca/certified-used/
https://www.usedcars.peugeot.co.uk/
http://www.certifiedpreowned.chrysler.com/
even Tesla (except they're really really bad at it -- see linked video)
[...]
Yes, electricity is that cheap here.
C$0.085/kWh. This part of the country has a lot of (cheap/green) hydro electric power, and results in those rates. https://app.bchydro.com/accounts-billing/rates-energy-use/electricity-rates/residential-rates.html
[...]
If you include sales tax,which I didn't in my original calculation, and wall consumption as opposed to vehicle reported consumption, which brings the numbers to 9.1c/kWh and 18kWh/100km, you end up with
18 * 0.091 = $1.638/100km, or about 1.2l/100km.
Boffin, in that link the absolute minimum price for the so called "step 1" is C$0.0884 per kWh + 5% + taxes which even before taxes is already more than your shiny new recalculated rate of C$0.091/kWh, look: 0.0884*1.05= C$0.09282 before taxes.
Are these https://www.thoughtco.com/canadian-sales-tax-rates-510599 the taxes?
If so, then for BC C$0.09282+5%(GST/VAT)+7%(PST) is C$0.09282*1.12= C$0.104 and there you go, your numbers are way off again by 14.2%.
And the step 2 prices are $0.1326+5% before taxes...
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Tesla in the business of selling new cars? From what I understand they are doing well. Consumers are buying the cars and are very pleased.and circling back to your original question, the answer is essentially NO. Tesla can't just be in the business of selling new, they also need to be in the business of building, selling used (trade ins) and selling parts/service; or they'll get crushed by the rest of the companies that provide full service.Tell me which car manufacturers are in the business of selling used cars? AFAIK none. Sure some dealerships sell used vehicles and they (usually) are happy to service any car from the brand they represent but dealers are independant companies.
All of them have 'Certified Pre-Owned' programs of some sort. Here's your 'none' (aka what you'd like to believe) versus reality
https://usedvehicles.vwmodels.ca/search/
https://www.mercedes-benz.ca/en/cpo
https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/certified-used
https://www.hondacertified.com/
https://www.ford.ca/certified-used/
https://www.usedcars.peugeot.co.uk/
http://www.certifiedpreowned.chrysler.com/
even Tesla (except they're really really bad at it -- see linked video)But these are all programs executed by the dealers. Not the manufacturers! After all they are not shipping cars back to the manufacturer to have a car checked and/or refurbished. The reasons Tesla doesn't do this because (AFAIK) Tesla mostly does direct sales without a dealer network.
Correct me if I am wrong but isn’t Tesla in the business of selling new cars? From what I understand they are doing well. Consumers are buying the cars and are very pleased.and circling back to your original question, the answer is essentially NO. Tesla can't just be in the business of selling new, they also need to be in the business of building, selling used (trade ins) and selling parts/service; or they'll get crushed by the rest of the companies that provide full service.Tell me which car manufacturers are in the business of selling used cars? AFAIK none. Sure some dealerships sell used vehicles and they (usually) are happy to service any car from the brand they represent but dealers are independant companies.
All of them have 'Certified Pre-Owned' programs of some sort. Here's your 'none' (aka what you'd like to believe) versus reality
https://usedvehicles.vwmodels.ca/search/
https://www.mercedes-benz.ca/en/cpo
https://www.toyota.ca/toyota/en/vehicles/certified-used
https://www.hondacertified.com/
https://www.ford.ca/certified-used/
https://www.usedcars.peugeot.co.uk/
http://www.certifiedpreowned.chrysler.com/
even Tesla (except they're really really bad at it -- see linked video)But these are all programs executed by the dealers. Not the manufacturers! After all they are not shipping cars back to the manufacturer to have a car checked and/or refurbished. The reasons Tesla doesn't do this because (AFAIK) Tesla mostly does direct sales without a dealer network.
These are all MANUFACTURER warranty programs, along with manufacturer based advertising, it's not the dealers doing this independently.
I suspect this is something the manufacturer does to get people to buy née cars/. I highly doubt the car manufacturer pays for the repairs, they only coordinate the program for the dealers. Repairs are probably handled through some third party repair insurance company.
Don’t you think a new car company would want to sell new cars where they make the most money? I high;y doubt they would wan to mess around with used cars and all f the problems that go along with them.
I suspect this is something the manufacturer does to get people to buy née cars/. I highly doubt the car manufacturer pays for the repairs, they only coordinate the program for the dealers. Repairs are probably handled through some third party repair insurance company.
Don’t you think a new car company would want to sell new cars where they make the most money? I high;y doubt they would wan to mess around with used cars and all f the problems that go along with them.To sell new cars manufacturers have to ensure a good market for the cars traded in. This means most car makers work to keep up the residual value of vehicles coming off lease and other finance schemes. They have schemes to ensure good warranty and finance arrangements are available for those traded in cars. Remember that a huge percentage of new cars and cars after their first trade in are financed by arms or associates of the manufacturer. This finance is often the most profitable part of the manufacturer's business. This is why many dealers aren't that keen on talking to cash customers.